Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2    3  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Hall Of Fame Inductees 2020

Zen Peach





Posts: 17251
(17249 all sites)
Registered: 1/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 12:52 AM
Depeche Mode, The Doobie Brothers, Whitney Houston, Nine Inch Nails, The Notorious B.I.G. and T-Rex.

With BIG, the HOF rendered itself beyond however stupid it was before. Basically if you are a rapper and sell a million singles. You are in. Every year there is a rapper. All will get in . Ice Cube, Ice T, Ice Tray, Dre, Snoop, etc - all getting in. It would be the equal of entering every popular band from the 60s/70s straight through to today.

Just stupid.

 

____________________
Zakk Wylde Joins Dickey in reformed Allman Brothers Band 2020


 
Replies:

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9001
(9014 all sites)
Registered: 8/30/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 08:28 AM
To be honest my feeling are and always have been indifferent to the RNRHOF. I really do not need a "Hall of" to tell me what bands are great That Hall of Fame is in my head!!

My only beef with it is that I think it should be more elitist . They let way to many bands and musicians in. It should be the best of the best. It gets to watered down and will eventually mean nothing. Maybe I will get in someday for my current reworking of a Zep classic into an acoustic version!

[Edited on 1/16/2020 by jszfunk]

 

____________________

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5637
(5672 all sites)
Registered: 1/5/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 10:51 AM
I know that rap / hip hop have dominated the charts for years now, maybe the last 2 decades if not more, so I guess the genre does merit representation; I am just so ignorant about it that I could not say which rapper is really more important than others.

In the world of rock, I have always found the Doobies to be a second-tier band. Obviously that is pure personal opinion; I just don't see them reaching the level of innovation, influence, or excellence as Zepp, Stones, Floyd, etc. I also do not know their deep cuts, so I might be way off on that. I know Skunk is a beast on guitar.


I do know that it will be very tough to arrange the all-star jam at the end of THIS particular HOF ceremony. Lol. Methinks "Johnny B. Goode" led by Trent Reznor and the Depeche boys might not cut it.

 

Peach Bud



Karma:
Posts: 31
(31 all sites)
Registered: 10/2/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 11:06 AM
Can't quite figure out the HOF. They finally let Yes in in 2017, but letting these artists in before Jethro Tull; who's still waiting, isn't right.
 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 17251
(17249 all sites)
Registered: 1/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 11:20 AM
quote:
It gets to watered down and will eventually mean nothing.


LOL That ship sailed long ago. But it is great to tear them to pieces annually.

quote:
I am just so ignorant about it that I could not say which rapper is really more important than others.


Allow me to help out. LOL

Rap can only be based on sales as very few tour. Smart ones hook up with a hot wife and co-tour and actually have some real musicians.

But it is pretty much sales. Most of it during rap's prime were Single sales.

Each year they let in artists who have had sales averaging less than a million over their careers. Many of the Top Rap artists of that era have not come up for Induction so logic dictates that they all get it. And they will as it is very PC. They fear rejecting one of the rappers. Influence is always the reasoning which is ridiculous. In the years since it began, there has not been much change in Rap music. To claim each rapper had a huge influence is like claiming every rock band had a major influence.

Now translate that to the rock of the 60s - through the 80s - Based on similar sales hundreds of bands should be included.

Some of the bands that they sailed right past Inducting like Motorhead,and Thin Lizzy blow those numbers away. And we haven't even brought up touring for 40 years and ticket sales attached.

So basically every band has the right to claim HOF status whether they are ever Inducted or not.

 

____________________
Zakk Wylde Joins Dickey in reformed Allman Brothers Band 2020




 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46926
(46927 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 11:52 AM
quote:
Influence is always the reasoning which is ridiculous. In the years since it began, there has not been much change in Rap music. To claim each rapper had a huge influence is like claiming every rock band had a major influence.


You know I love ya man, and you also know how much I respect your experience in the music business, but this is pretty much just genre-bias. You just hate rap.

Now, could you please check the Neil Peart thread?

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13963
(14017 all sites)
Registered: 7/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 12:03 PM
POP MUSIC HALL OF FAME! "Rock and Roll'? You mean that musical form that died after (about) 1979?
With the exception of the Doobies, none of these nominees make a sound that remotely resembles Rock and Roll.

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8879
(8887 all sites)
Registered: 3/24/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 12:56 PM
I would trade Whitney for Pat Benetar in a NY minute

 

____________________
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 17251
(17249 all sites)
Registered: 1/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 01:02 PM
quote:
quote:
Influence is always the reasoning which is ridiculous. In the years since it began, there has not been much change in Rap music. To claim each rapper had a huge influence is like claiming every rock band had a major influence.


You know I love ya man, and you also know how much I respect your experience in the music business, but this is pretty much just genre-bias. You just hate rap.

Now, could you please check the Neil Peart thread?


I will.

Hey some rappers have to get in. But with the manner that they Inducted people, they have to Induct all of them. I can list a dozen who have careers out doing Big. So a band like Jethro Tull will not get in but a rapper with nowhere near the success will. Whether I like rap or not - they put themselves in a corner regarding rap.

If not for the shooting, this guy never gains entry. But attached to Tupac and all that nonsense, he gets in for all the wrong reasons.

Now if Ian Anderson had whacked Jon Anderson then Yes and Tull would have been in ages ago. LOL

 

____________________
Zakk Wylde Joins Dickey in reformed Allman Brothers Band 2020




 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20743
(20828 all sites)
Registered: 11/26/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 01:33 PM
I was hoping Soundgarden would get in and eventually maybe they will. Their resume ended up being kind of brief, as great as I think they were.
quote:
POP MUSIC HALL OF FAME! "Rock and Roll'? You mean that musical form that died after (about) 1979?
With the exception of the Doobies, none of these nominees make a sound that remotely resembles Rock and Roll.

That sums up the problem in a way I hadn't heard before. The thing is, since this Hall opened it's been inducting great artists who didn't make rock music but were influences on rock or kind of rock-adjacent in some way. So in that way it would be a little strange if they didn't end up inducting newer artists who also didn't make rock music. It's inevitable whether or not it makes a lot of musical sense. Hip hop has been the most popular form of music in the US for around 20 years - with pretty clear influence on other genres, including rock - so that means more hip hop artists in this Hall. On the other hand if you think about this as a pop music Hall of Fame the lack of female artists and the emphasis on white artists seems even worse than it already is. So yes, they're fitting a few of the biggest hip hop acts in history in there just like they've got some third- or maybe fourth-tier classic rock bands.

quote:
I know that rap / hip hop have dominated the charts for years now, maybe the last 2 decades if not more, so I guess the genre does merit representation; I am just so ignorant about it that I could not say which rapper is really more important than others.

I don't know Biggie's music as well as I should based on my age because I wasn't listening to much hip hop at the time he died. But he's one of the handful of most famous rappers of the 90's and helped take the genre to the mainstream. He had some huge hits and he was good at what he did. He released one album in his lifetime and his second came out right after he died; combined they've sold 17 million copies, which is... more than one or two big singles.

quote:
In the years since it began, there has not been much change in Rap music.

Even a person who hypothetically hated rap and knew nothing about it - but still somehow thought he was in position to judge its evolution (?) - would probably be to tell that Run-DMC doesn't sound that much like Kendrick Lamar. The style of rapping, the sampling, it just doesn't sound much alike.

[Edited on 1/16/2020 by Marley]

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4141
(4138 all sites)
Registered: 12/11/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 01:51 PM
Happy for the Doobies. Depeche Mode wasn't my cup of tea but I thought they'd get in and deserved it.

Will be interesting to see which Doobie members get inducted. There were a LOT of them between 1970-1981, some for just short periods.

 

____________________
Tim L.

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1365
(1365 all sites)
Registered: 3/5/2008
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 01:54 PM
quote:
quote:
It gets to watered down and will eventually mean nothing.


LOL That ship sailed long ago. But it is great to tear them to pieces annually.

quote:
I am just so ignorant about it that I could not say which rapper is really more important than others.


Allow me to help out. LOL

Rap can only be based on sales as very few tour. Smart ones hook up with a hot wife and co-tour and actually have some real musicians.

But it is pretty much sales. Most of it during rap's prime were Single sales.

Each year they let in artists who have had sales averaging less than a million over their careers. Many of the Top Rap artists of that era have not come up for Induction so logic dictates that they all get it. And they will as it is very PC. They fear rejecting one of the rappers. Influence is always the reasoning which is ridiculous. In the years since it began, there has not been much change in Rap music. To claim each rapper had a huge influence is like claiming every rock band had a major influence.

Now translate that to the rock of the 60s - through the 80s - Based on similar sales hundreds of bands should be included.

Some of the bands that they sailed right past Inducting like Motorhead,and Thin Lizzy blow those numbers away. And we haven't even brought up touring for 40 years and ticket sales attached.

So basically every band has the right to claim HOF status whether they are ever Inducted or not.


Certainly, debate can be had regarding whether rappers belong in a Rock hall. But putting that debate aside for the moment, I could not disagree with you more about Biggie.

For various reasons, that people on this forum probably do not care for me to list, I think Biggie is easily near the top (if not AT THE TOP) of the best rappers ever.

His career was cut short after just two albums, because he was murdered. But, I do not hear people saying Sandy Koufax shouldn't be in the HOF because he played a short career either.

If you're letting rappers in, Biggie absolutely belongs.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4141
(4138 all sites)
Registered: 12/11/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 01:55 PM
Actually found the answer. Inductees will be

2020 Doobies members Tom Johnston, Patrick Simmons, John McFee and Michael McDonald,

plus
Jeff "Skunk" Baxter (197479)
John Hartman (197079, 198792)
Michael Hossack (197173, 19872012)
Tiran Porter (197180, 198792)
Keith Knudsen (197382, 19932005).

 

____________________
Tim L.

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13963
(14017 all sites)
Registered: 7/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 02:33 PM
quote:
POP MUSIC HALL OF FAME! "Rock and Roll'? You mean that musical form that died after (about) 1979?
With the exception of the Doobies, none of these nominees make a sound that remotely resembles Rock and Roll.

That sums up the problem in a way I hadn't heard before. The thing is, since this Hall opened it's been inducting great artists who didn't make rock music but were influences on rock or kind of rock-adjacent in some way. So in that way it would be a little strange if they didn't end up inducting newer artists who also didn't make rock music. It's inevitable whether or not it makes a lot of musical sense. Hip hop has been the most popular form of music in the US for around 20 years - with pretty clear influence on other genres, including rock - so that means more hip hop artists in this Hall. On the other hand if you think about this as a pop music Hall of Fame the lack of female artists and the emphasis on white artists seems even worse than it already is. So yes, they're fitting a few of the biggest hip hop acts in history in there just like they've got some third- or maybe fourth-tier classic rock bands.




(Arms a bit sore from striking deceased equine animal) ... I get the whole, "evolution" thing. I really do. But over time (not instantaneous so you could watch it), the morphing leads to something that no longer resembles the ancestor.

This story is relatable ... if you want it to be. :

I know a guy who produces soundtracks (cinema/ television mainly). He told me about the time a producer wanted a "Classical" music sound bed for a film. He went to work composing first one and then several more pieces - all in the vein of Beethoven, Bach, Mozart et al. When none of these efforts pleased the producer, my friend (finally) asked the guy to bring in a piece of Classical music that he liked. Maybe he could start a new approach from there.

When I next saw my friend, he was livid! The producer had returned with a Scarlatti selection. "F##kin' Rococo! Screamed the composer.

Now, imagine that a film maker comes to you and says that he wants a Rock and Roll soundtrack. You go to work creating stuff that sounds like Chuck Berry, Fats Domino ... or even Beatles and Rolling Stones. You play it for the producer who tells you, No - not it". Then the guy hands you a copy of "Tainted Love". It's the same, ain't it?

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20629
(20689 all sites)
Registered: 2/9/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2020 at 03:33 PM
quote:
Now, imagine that a film maker comes to you and says that he wants a Rock and Roll soundtrack. You go to work creating stuff that sounds like Chuck Berry, Fats Domino ... or even Beatles and Rolling Stones. You play it for the producer who tells you, No - not it". Then the guy hands you a copy of "Tainted Love". It's the same, ain't it?


Nice.

Big difference between "Rock 'n Roll" & "Rock"....Now, throw in Rap, Hip Hop, Heavy Metal etc. and you have quite a quandary.

Still no Little Feat.

 

____________________


 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8317
(8317 all sites)
Registered: 10/12/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/17/2020 at 08:15 AM
They now have rectified what I have thought for years were two of the biggest omissions from the Hall: Deep Purple a few years back, and now The Doobie Brothers.

The Doobie Brothers had a SLEW of hits, and I mean a LOT. Granted, that was back in the 70's but that should not matter, it only means they should have been in a lot of years ago. They have sold over 40 million records. They have been a solid touring force for 50 YEARS now! And they still bring it big time @ their live shows.

On top of all that, they are home town for me. All the original guys are from San Jose, CA or the surrounding areas. In fact, Tom Johnston and Patrick Simmons first met at a jam at the former Bodega club in Campbell which is a mile or two from my place (Campbell sits right on the west border of San Jose).

Interesting story from the early days: I read an interview with Pat Simmons, must have been 20 years ago, where he spoke of meeting Johnston at the Bodega for the first time. He spoke of the mutual admiration when they heard each other play and the instant chemistry once they decided to get together and jam. Back then in the early 70's the Doobies were basically a local biker band and some of the places they played way out in the Santa Cruz mountains were pretty rough. Simmons talked about playing one of these mountain biker bars one time. He went into his guitar solo, happened to glance down at the dance floor, and there was a couple horizontal on the floor, screwing. "Hard to concentrate on your guitar solo with that going on right in front of you."

The Doobies broke up for maybe five years in the late 80's/early 90's. During that time Pat Simmons had a solo band and I caught him several times at a club in Soquel, a few miles from Santa Cruz. He always packed the place and it was always pretty much straight R&B and he would only do one or two lesser known Doobies tunes, he was not riding that history at all. He had a black dude singing with him. It was always great.

 

____________________
Don't let the sounds of your own wheels
Drive you crazy
Lighten up while you still can
Don't even try to understand
Just find a place to take your stand
And TAKE IT EASY

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20743
(20828 all sites)
Registered: 11/26/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/17/2020 at 10:20 AM
quote:
(Arms a bit sore from striking deceased equine animal) ... I get the whole, "evolution" thing. I really do. But over time (not instantaneous so you could watch it), the morphing leads to something that no longer resembles the ancestor.

This story is relatable ... if you want it to be. :

I know a guy who produces soundtracks (cinema/ television mainly). He told me about the time a producer wanted a "Classical" music sound bed for a film. He went to work composing first one and then several more pieces - all in the vein of Beethoven, Bach, Mozart et al. When none of these efforts pleased the producer, my friend (finally) asked the guy to bring in a piece of Classical music that he liked. Maybe he could start a new approach from there.

When I next saw my friend, he was livid! The producer had returned with a Scarlatti selection. "F##kin' Rococo! Screamed the composer.

Now, imagine that a film maker comes to you and says that he wants a Rock and Roll soundtrack. You go to work creating stuff that sounds like Chuck Berry, Fats Domino ... or even Beatles and Rolling Stones. You play it for the producer who tells you, No - not it". Then the guy hands you a copy of "Tainted Love". It's the same, ain't it?

I guess the further you go from whatever the source of a genre is, the more likely things are going to get lumped into that genre based on surface elements (it must be classical if it has an orchestra, if it has a guitar it must be rock) or kind of obscure elements most listeners aren't going to get, like backbeat or something about the structure or a common ancestor or something.

 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 666
(666 all sites)
Registered: 5/2/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/17/2020 at 10:48 AM
My favorite thing to read/hear is:

"It's a joke because ______________________(Insert some band you like) is not in!"

I mean, just think for a second about how absurd that sounds! Disappointed? Want them in? Start your own hall!

 

____________________
"The only funeral you should ever try to interrupt is your own, and that should be a full-time job." -Kinkstah

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13963
(14017 all sites)
Registered: 7/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/17/2020 at 10:52 AM
All tortoises are turtles but not all turtles are tortoises. Rock and Roll is Pop music ... but not all Pop music is Rock and Roll.

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 10566
(10565 all sites)
Registered: 8/16/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/17/2020 at 12:56 PM
https://bestclassicbands.com/rock-hall-omissions-12-13-1777/
 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 10566
(10565 all sites)
Registered: 8/16/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/17/2020 at 01:27 PM
quote:
They now have rectified what I have thought for years were two of the biggest omissions from the Hall: Deep Purple a few years back, and now The Doobie Brothers.

The Doobie Brothers had a SLEW of hits, and I mean a LOT. Granted, that was back in the 70's but that should not matter, it only means they should have been in a lot of years ago. They have sold over 40 million records. They have been a solid touring force for 50 YEARS now! And they still bring it big time @ their live shows.

On top of all that, they are home town for me. All the original guys are from San Jose, CA or the surrounding areas. In fact, Tom Johnston and Patrick Simmons first met at a jam at the former Bodega club in Campbell which is a mile or two from my place (Campbell sits right on the west border of San Jose).

Interesting story from the early days: I read an interview with Pat Simmons, must have been 20 years ago, where he spoke of meeting Johnston at the Bodega for the first time. He spoke of the mutual admiration when they heard each other play and the instant chemistry once they decided to get together and jam. Back then in the early 70's the Doobies were basically a local biker band and some of the places they played way out in the Santa Cruz mountains were pretty rough. Simmons talked about playing one of these mountain biker bars one time. He went into his guitar solo, happened to glance down at the dance floor, and there was a couple horizontal on the floor, screwing. "Hard to concentrate on your guitar solo with that going on right in front of you."

The Doobies broke up for maybe five years in the late 80's/early 90's. During that time Pat Simmons had a solo band and I caught him several times at a club in Soquel, a few miles from Santa Cruz. He always packed the place and it was always pretty much straight R&B and he would only do one or two lesser known Doobies tunes, he was not riding that history at all. He had a black dude singing with him. It was always great.
Nice area!, I went through there with my wife in 2015, we were really impressed. It was sad to come back to Tucson.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 17251
(17249 all sites)
Registered: 1/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/18/2020 at 01:24 AM
quote:
He released one album in his lifetime and his second came out right after he died; combined they've sold 17 million copies, which is... more than one or two big singles.


Well you lose 4 million off the top as they are "singles" sales.
There are also 4 albums.

Now if we walk on over to other Top Rappers

MC Hammer - 50 Million
Vanilla Ice - well he says 160 million but he is insane. But sales top BIG - the whole f'n world knows that stupid ice song.
Snoop 37 million and climbing.
Ice Cube 14 million+ other projects
Jay Z 37 million
Ice T 12 million US sales alone

Without Dr. Dre, most couldn't even turn the lights on in a studio. There is a HOFer.

If you let 14 million in sales gain entry then......every rapper in.

Now lets have fun and list all the POP/Rock/R&B/Metal/Punk who have career sales of 15 million plus in sales.

Any idea how long that list is? He had one album while alive so that means every "one hit wonder band" should also gain entry

And we are absolutely throwing out tiny details like touring and career longevity. Why bother with details?

They have let every rap artist nominated in. This guy should have been the wise one to do the right thing with and pass. They didn't. Doom Is Indeed Rising Now. Thanks for playing.

I could keep going. Based on any logical criteria, they all get in.

Soundgarden 25 million - They influenced grunge - an entire genre.
Pat Benatar 30 million - Ask women artists what they think about Pat. She took on the industry at its' most sexist time.

He beats both? C'mon.

[Edited on 1/18/2020 by CanadianMule]

 

____________________
Zakk Wylde Joins Dickey in reformed Allman Brothers Band 2020




 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9001
(9014 all sites)
Registered: 8/30/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/18/2020 at 02:07 AM
quote:
quote:
He released one album in his lifetime and his second came out right after he died; combined they've sold 17 million copies, which is... more than one or two big singles.


Well you lose 4 million off the top as they are "singles" sales.
There are also 4 albums.

Now if we walk on over to other Top Rappers

MC Hammer - 50 Million
Vanilla Ice - well he says 160 million but he is insane. But sales top BIG - the whole f'n world knows that stupid ice song.
Snoop 37 million and climbing.
Ice Cube 14 million+ other projects
Jay Z 37 million
Ice T 12 million US sales alone

Without Dr. Dre, most couldn't even turn the lights on in a studio. There is a HOFer.

If you let 14 million in sales gain entry then......every rapper in.

Now lets have fun and list all the POP/Rock/R&B/Metal/Punk who have career sales of 15 million plus in sales.

Any idea how long that list is? He had one album while alive so that means every "one hit wonder band" should also gain entry

And we are absolutely throwing out tiny details like touring and career longevity. Why bother with details?

They have let every rap artist nominated in. This guy should have been the wise one to do the right thing with and pass. They didn't. Doom Is Indeed Rising Now. Thanks for playing.

I could keep going. Based on any logical criteria, they all get in.

Soundgarden 25 million - They influenced grunge - an entire genre.
Pat Benatar 30 million - Ask women artists what they think about Pat. She took on the industry at its' most sexist time.

He beats both? C'mon.

[Edited on 1/18/2020 by CanadianMule]


That jogged my memory of Pet Benatar from the early 80's. If I remember she had this concert on HBO and the video below is from that I believe. Great song and remember watching her husband play that solo on that guitar and I thought that was the coolest thing. I think I was 10 or 11 at the time.
https://youtu.be/7qUFZwJb9GA

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20743
(20828 all sites)
Registered: 11/26/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/18/2020 at 02:25 PM
quote:
quote:
He released one album in his lifetime and his second came out right after he died; combined they've sold 17 million copies, which is... more than one or two big singles.


Well you lose 4 million off the top as they are "singles" sales.

13 million from two albums is a lot.
quote:
There are also 4 albums.

The bulk of his reputation comes from those two albums and one you start counting compilations things get confusing, but - just going off Wikipedia - if you count all four albums, it's 21 million albums and 7 million more from singles, just in the US. That's a lot for someone whose career lasted about three years. I think the Billboard website gives different numbers, but since I've never argued sales alone make a Hall of Fame career, I don't really care. I did want to point out that your comment about "if you are a rapper and sell a million singles. You are in." was wrong, so I'm going to move on.
quote:
Now if we walk on over to other Top Rappers

MC Hammer - 50 Million
Vanilla Ice - well he says 160 million but he is insane. But sales top BIG - the whole f'n world knows that stupid ice song.
Snoop 37 million and climbing.
Ice Cube 14 million+ other projects
Jay Z 37 million
Ice T 12 million US sales alone

Do you think this is almost every rapper there is and you're scraping the bottom of the barrel? This is weird to ask, but you're comparing him to two guys who sold tons of records but are jokes, and to a bunch of legends of the genre. That doesn't diminish his impact or make it seem crazy to induct him. If I were making a sales argument I'd say it's somewhat difficult to compare Biggie to Jay Z or Snoop because that involves comparing album and single sales to sales plus streams, and there are formulas I don't know. But again: I don't care about sales. That's a metric you put a lot of emphasis on and I don't think that makes any sense.
quote:
Without Dr. Dre, most couldn't even turn the lights on in a studio. There is a HOFer.

Absolutely true. He's probably the most influential producer in the history of the genre, which makes him maybe the most influential producer of the last 30 years.
quote:
Now lets have fun and list all the POP/Rock/R&B/Metal/Punk who have career sales of 15 million plus in sales.

Any idea how long that list is? He had one album while alive so that means every "one hit wonder band" should also gain entry

I don't, because I don't care how many albums anyone sells. That's your thing, remember? You're trying to bring hard numbers and order to a process that is and has always been vague and kind of nuts, and it doesn't make any sense.
quote:
And we are absolutely throwing out tiny details like touring and career longevity. Why bother with details?

Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Elvis, Nirvana, the Sex Pistols, hell, Robert Johnson, Otis Redding, Sam Cooke... longevity and rock music are not friends. That's never been a problem for the Hall, and for some guys it's arguably been a positive. As far as touring goes: being a great live performer (which some of the above were NOT) is something that should be considered as far as some people's cases. Then again, the Beatles - who were only "The Beatles" that we think of for seven or eight years - quit touring after about four years, and they were very capable players but because of the way touring worked at that time they didn't do a lot of legendary Woodstock or Fillmore East type shows.
Rappers didn't really tour much at that time. They do it more often now because hardly anyone makes money from album sales, but we all know this.
quote:
They have let every rap artist nominated in.

That's because they've nominated so few! They're up to six artists from a genre that went mainstream around 30 years ago. The few people who've been up for consideration were either huge stars or pioneers in hip hop.
quote:
I could keep going. Based on any logical criteria, they all get in.

We know you could keep going. There are no logical criteria. Baseball has done a pretty good job of making its Hall of Fame process more rational than it used to be, but in music, or at least in this institution, it's probably impossible.
quote:
Soundgarden 25 million - They influenced grunge - an entire genre.

And I'm a huge fan! I'm not shocked that the arc of their career probably worked against them, - they started to get big in '91, were huge from around '94 until they broke up in '97, and then didn't reunite until 2010, when they put out only one more album before Chris Cornell died - but eventually I assume they'll get in. I won't get bent out of shape about it either way because everything about this is too random to get outraged about.

By the way, Gov't Mule will be eligible for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame next year, and Derek Trucks will be eligible two years later. That's going to be fun! (runs away)

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5637
(5672 all sites)
Registered: 1/5/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/18/2020 at 05:22 PM
"By the way, Gov't Mule will be eligible for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame next year, and Derek Trucks will be eligible two years later. That's going to be fun! (runs away)"


Run away!!

I don't expect either to get in. Neither has made a big enough mark on the public consciousness or the hipster music critics' radar. Derek has a better chance than Warren, I guess, for being so unique.

In the next years, it may be that, like this year, I have no real attachment to any of the nominees. However, I think that two of my faves, The Replacements and Wilco, have a shot.

 
<<  1    2    3  >>  


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software

Privacy | Terms of Service | Report Infringement | Personal Data Management | Contact Us
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com