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Author: Subject: Hey Deadheads - About That 5-8-77 Show...Or Any Other Show!!

Zen Peach





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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 01:02 PM
you know, Barton Hall at Cornell...

I don't get it.

I've listened to the entire show through twice now. Yes, it's a great recording. Yes, there are some great performances.

I just don't understand the hype around it. Now, I do know that the show was the Holy Grail amongst the tapers for years, but now with so many more shows available to compare it to, is that why it doesn't seem so...special?

I'm not bagging on it at all. It's just that, well, for instance, I can't tell you how many places I have read or heard that it's the definitive Scarlet>Fire. Hmmm. I'm not sure.

I know it's music and opinions are opinions. I hesitate to use the word "overrated" because I'm not sure that is a word that applies...or does it?

[Edited on 2/9/2010 by Bhawk]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 01:12 PM
Well, I will say it's one epic Morning Dew. That's for sure. I think the first set kind of plods along.

That's a great article.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 01:15 PM
quote:
I don't understand why Dick's Vol. 6 was chosen...I'd rather Barton Hall 5-8-77 made it that far.


Dick himself thought 5-8-77 a highly overrated show. In one interview he said something like "You guys can go on about 5-8-77 all you want. You're not getting it from me."

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 01:28 PM
quote:
Maybe the Dick's Picks selection process should have been more democratic and not such a dictatorship . I still don't get 10-14-83...I can think of a few other '83 shows that strike me as more enjoyable to listen to. I love Phil's bass in 5-8-77 though. And, I think the first set is underrated, and the second a bit overrated, but still very good.


^^^This is why these discussions are so great.

I think Dick's Pick's 3 (5-22-77) was Dick's shot at the 5-8-77 folks.

But, one of my absolute faves is DP 18. My favorite Eyes ever.

DP 29 has some stunning stuff on it.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 01:35 PM
Perusing through archive.org in the last few months, I've found some stuff I really like in '79. Actually, right before Keith and Donna were asked to leave, she finally wasn't annoying.

I have a friend who dismisses the entire late 70s era out of hand because he hates Donna's voice that much. I've never quite been able to understand that!

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 01:43 PM
quote:
_______________________________________________________________________
^^^This is why these discussions are so great.

I think Dick's Pick's 3 (5-22-77) was Dick's shot at the 5-8-77 folks.

But, one of my absolute faves is DP 18. My favorite Eyes ever.
_______________________________________________________________________

Amen Bhawk. #18 and #15 are my two favorites. #18 for the Scarlet>Fire and #15 for the close to 20 min. Not Fade Away. Just two really good show's as a whole.

I think my fav. Eyes is the one they did with Branford that is on Without a Net. Sweet stuff.

As far as the 5/8 show goes, I've often wondered the same thing. Good show, but I definitely prefer the two show's above to that one.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 01:59 PM
quote:
quote:
_______________________________________________________________________
^^^This is why these discussions are so great.

I think Dick's Pick's 3 (5-22-77) was Dick's shot at the 5-8-77 folks.

But, one of my absolute faves is DP 18. My favorite Eyes ever.
_______________________________________________________________________

Amen Bhawk. #18 and #15 are my two favorites. #18 for the Scarlet>Fire and #15 for the close to 20 min. Not Fade Away. Just two really good show's as a whole.

I think my fav. Eyes is the one they did with Branford that is on Without a Net. Sweet stuff.

As far as the 5/8 show goes, I've often wondered the same thing. Good show, but I definitely prefer the two show's above to that one.



Kev, have you ever heard that entire 2nd set on 3-29-90 with Branford?

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1990-03-29.mtx.hansokolow.97118.flac16

Eyes>
Estimated>
Dark Star>
Drums>
Space>
The Wheel>
Throwing Stones>
Lovelight

E: Knockin on Heaven's Door

Also, the next night, 3-30-90, is one I spin often.

Help>
Slip>
Franklin's
Rooster
Dire Wolf
It's all over now
Tom Thumb's
Picasso Moon>
Don't Ease Me In

Iko Iko
Playing In The Band>
China Doll>
Uncle John's Band>
Terrapin>
Drums>
Space>
I Need A Miracle>
Gimme Some Lovin'>
Standing on the Moon>
Not Fade Away

E: Attics of my Life

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1990-03-30.sbd.cutler-mix.miller.89173.sbe ok.flac16


For those fans of the late 70s, if you've never heard this Miracle>Shakedown, take the 20 minutes and check this out. You will NOT regret it!

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1979-01-15.nak300.rolfe.miller.90095.sbeok .flac16

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 02:12 PM
quote:
_______________________________________________________________________
Kev, have you ever heard that entire 2nd set on 3-29-90 with Branford?
_______________________________________________________________________

I have indeed Bro. Fabulous stuff!!!However, for whatever the reason, I haven't checked out the next night, so thank you for bringing that to my attention.......as well as the '79 miracle>shakedown.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 02:37 PM
I'm also of the 5/08/77 is overrated school, although it is a very enjoyable show.

I prefer 69 - 74 GD
for DP, personal favorites (off the top of my head) are
4 (2/13,14/70)
8 (5/02/70)
11 (9/27/72)
14 (11/30,12/02/73)
36 (9/21/72)

also Winterland 11/73, FW 2/69, FE 4/71, Winterland 10/74 (GD movie soundtrack)
and a ton of shows not officially released

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 02:40 PM
quote:
FW 2/69




Awesome stuff there.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 02:47 PM
I love DP 35 - The Houseboat Tapes. My fave Hard To Handle by far...and Phil on the first disc (8/7/71) rattles the windows.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 02:49 PM
I need to get a copy of that one. I have 8/06/71.

So many great versions of HTH in 71...

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 03:57 PM
I'd say 5/8/77 is a great show, but not my "desert island" show. It's just the most circulated, best sounding show. Plus, the setlist is pretty noob-friendly. There isn't a 30 minute Dark Star or a Drums>Space that would tend to turn some people off. There's a few country songs, some jamming songs, and some straight rock n roll. A little bit for everybody.

Aside from the Fillmore stuff in 1970-71, you'd be hard pressed to find a more epic run than 5/7/77, 5/8/77, and 5/9/77.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 04:15 PM
quote:
Perusing through archive.org in the last few months, I've found some stuff I really like in '79. Actually, right before Keith and Donna were asked to leave, she finally wasn't annoying.

I have a friend who dismisses the entire late 70s era out of hand because he hates Donna's voice that much. I've never quite been able to understand that!


Really I dont see whats so bad about her. Maybe you had to be there

Anyway 77 is a good year

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 05:07 PM
"Now, I do know that the show was the Holy Grail amongst the tapers for years, but now with so many more shows available to compare it to, is that why it doesn't seem so...special?"

That is probably right.

That and the fact the fact that despite the fact that Barton Hall was one of the best shows they played, no one ever seemed to listen to that one as much as they did some others.

I would also like to add that Dick Latveria (sp) has some strange taste. There are a lot of Dicks picks from the early 70s and 60s that are just plain unnecessary. And to "slap" fans of Barton Hall is crazy.
Dick has said his favorite time period was the early 70s - the seriously weird, I'm-having-a-bad-trip type jams. No wonder he doesn't like Barton Hall. It is tight and well executed. I never understood that guy's taste.

I have also heard that Barton Hall will never be released as the master tape is missing or has a defect or something along those lines.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 05:20 PM
"Dick has said his favorite time period was the early 70s - the seriously weird, I'm-having-a-bad-trip type jams."

I agree with Latvala, and I don't even disagree with your description.

Once the danger went out of the Dead and their music, or as you describe it, "the seriously weird, I'm-having-a-bad-trip type jams," they weren't nearly as interesting to me.

I just wish I could get in a time machine and go back to the Fillmore...

 
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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 05:30 PM
"I agree with Latvala, and I don't even disagree with your description."

Classic! I disagree with your favorite era but I totally love the enthusiasm.

If those jams are what you would define as danger, then I guess you would have to say hiring Vince Welnick was downright apocolyptic.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 06:11 PM
quote:
late '70's Donna is soooo much more listenable than '73 Donna. You Ain't Woman Enough from 1973 is a song I'm sure to skip if it's on disc, and fast forward through if it's on tape. The '70's is the Dead sound I prefer though. All due respect to Brent, who made a few appearances there. I like the Wolf guitar better than the Tiger and those thereafter. Your mileage may vary.


agree on both counts
Donna actually sounded good in 76.

in 73, though, especially during Playin', she reminds me of somoene stepping on the cat

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 06:53 PM
March 1973 at Nassau was good. Pigpen had died the day before and the band wore powder blue tuxedeos with day glo skeletons as a tribute. The Wall of Sound at Roosevelt Stadium in 1974 was great. The best show I ever saw was in San Francisco at Kezar Stadium in March of 1975. I was there front and center. I was also at the 1990 Nassau show with Branford. Best Bird Song I ever saw. I enjoy the tapes from 1968. I also like how the band employed technology in the early 1990's, but it seems not too many besides myself like the 90's.

[Edited on 10/20/2009 by griff]

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 07:15 PM
Not a big Dead Head, but Donna on 1000 Year Hall is a sound not to be forgotten, and to be missed if at all possible. I like the band best after Constantine left and before Keith and Donna joined, although all pre Kieth and Donna stuff is OK by me.

Should be 100 Year Hall....what the hall !!!

[Edited on 10/21/2009 by njpaulc]

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 07:27 PM
i saw The Grateful Dead on several occasions in the spring of 1977

4/27/77 ~ Capitol Theatre ~ Passaic, N. J.
4/29/77 ~ Palladium, NYC
5/1/77 ~ Palladium, NYC
5/4/77 ~ Palladium, NYC

and all these shows were incredible as was the whole year of 1977 !!! and Dick liked the night after Cornell better, and that was Buffalo, N. Y. 5/9/77 and i have to agree with him. but Cornell is a great show.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 07:28 PM
quote:
you know, Barton Hall at Cornell...

I don't get it.

I've listened to the entire show through twice now. Yes, it's a great recording. Yes, there are some great performances. I just don't understand the hype around it




Alright!...a subject very near to my hippie Deadhead heart!

Okay my friend, first off, you said you listened to the the show "twice" now - is that all? I mean are you just now hearing it for the first time? If so, as with any show, it might take you a few more listens for it to really grab you and draw you in and hear what made that show somewhat special. Also Bhawk, how into The Dead are you? Casual listener, Deadhead or somewhere in between? Look at it this way. It could be tough to get a casual ABB fan to go crazy over a lot of shows we think are over the top. I think you get what I mean.

Anyway, Being a long time Deadhead I really like 5/8/77. Is it my favorite show ever? No. It might not even be in my top 10. I actually prefer a couple shows from 1977 more than Cornell University, but there is some magic there however - especially in the second set. I find the Scarlet>Fire to be excellent - Very tight in fact. Listen to Jerry's fluid, trippy Mixolydian-key riffing in the Jam between the two songs - it's quite good. Billy and Mickey's playing is pretty tribal too, which I love. The version "Estimated Prophet" which followed was pretty standard for that time period, but they had only been playing it live for a couple of months and the song was still developing. I do like this one though and Bobby's vocals are superb. I think where this show really takes off though is right after this. I would say the St Stephen>Not Fade Away>St Stephen> Morning Dew close to the show is what makes this show a real Holy Grail deal for 1977. It's prime Dead, for that time period anyway. However, the following night at the Buffalo War Memorial on 5/9/77 pound for pound might be a better show. The entire month of May that year, the band was really playing extremely well. They might not have reached the peaks of 1971 thru 1974, but there is sone very tasty stuff in '77 regardless. There are just so many shows out there, tough to choose really.

Oh yeah, one more thing. There is a really, really great audience recording of 5/8/77 and beautifully done Matrix recording that in my opinion blow the soundboard feed out of the water. I have 3 sources of this show that I listen to and the audience source might be my favorite, with the Matrix a close second. You can actually "feel" the music more and you also get the natural acoustics and ambience of Barton Hall. The music really breathes a whole lot more. Its amazing how good those Shure 57 microphones sound even 32 years later! Especially when placed just 10 feet from the stage. The taper got a magnificent pull even 3 decades ago.

If anyone is interested, here is the that audience source I am speaking about which is available for downloading on the Live Music Archive. Give it a shot and you'll hear the difference. You personally may not like it better because its not perfect... but isn't The Grateful Dead the most perfect, imperfect band ever?

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1977-05-08.shure57.stevenson.29303.flac16



...and the beautiful Matrix source with recording info. This ones a keeper too!

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=522189



Grateful Dead
Barton Hall, Cornell University
Ithaca, NY
May 8, 1977

Jerry Garcia - Lead Guitar, Vocals
Donna Jean Godchaux - Vocals
Keith Godchaux - Keyboards
Mickey Hart - Drums
Bill Kreutzmann - Drums
Phil Lesh - Electric Bass, Vocals
Bob Weir - Rhythm Guitar, Vocals



*40th Matrix*

----------------------------------------------------
SBD (shnid=4982):

Betty Board -- Master 7" Nagra reels 1/2 track @ 7.5ips>Sony PCM 501. Playback on Sony PCM 701>DAT (Digital Transfer) -- Rob Eaton DBX Decoding (Spring '99) Playback on Panasonic 4100 DAT>DB 924 D/A>Dolby 361's w/dbx K9-22 Cards>DB 124 A/D>Neve Capricorn (Digital mixing console)>DB 300S>Panasonic 4100 DAT>DAT>Digi Coax Cable>Tascam CD-RW 700>CDR (x1)>SHN (Rob Eaton remaster)

----------------------------------------------------
AUD (shnid=29303):

Handheld Shure 57's, 10 Feet From Stage, DFC>TC152>MC
MC>CDR>EAC>WAV>FLAC

Notes: 10 Feet From Stage = Great Instrument Pickup,
Recording And Transfer: Jeff Stevenson

---------------------------------------------------
Thank you to Rob Eaton for the SBD transfer,
and to Jeff Stevenson for recording this all-time great show.

Matrix by Hunter Seamons using Final Cut Pro (SHN & FLAC>AIFF>Final Cut>WAV>FLAC)
February 5, 2009


Set I
-----
d1t01 - Minglewood Blues
d1t02 - Loser
d1t03 - El Paso
d1t04 - They Love Each Other
d1t05 - Jack Straw
d1t06 - Deal
d1t07 - Lazy Lightning ->
d1t08 - Supplication
d1t09 - Brown Eyed Women
d1t10 - Mama Tried
d1t11 - Row Jimmy
d2t01 - Dancin' In The Streets

Set II
-----
d2t02 - Take A Step Back
d2t03 - Scarlet Begonias ->
d2t04 - Fire On The Mountain
d2t05 - Estimated Prophet
d3t01 - St. Stephen ->
d3t02 - Not Fade Away ->
d3t03 - St. Stephen ->
d3t04 - Morning Dew

Encore
------
d3t05 - One More Saturday Night


Notes:

1) Warning: this might steal your face - the sound is impeccable, thanks to truly excellent sources for a matrix.



[Edited on 10/21/2009 by EddieP]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 08:13 PM
quote:
Okay my friend, first off, you said you listened to the the show "twice" now - is that all? I mean are you just now hearing it for the first time? If so, as with any show, it might take you a few more listens for it to really grab you and draw you in and hear what made that show somewhat special.


Actually, yes, this is the first time listening to the entire show from start to finish. I've heard the Scarlet>Fire and the Dew a bunch of times. Thanks to archive.org and a job where I have really nice PC speakers, I can now take advantage.

quote:
Also Bhawk, how into The Dead are you? Casual listener, Deadhead or somewhere in between? Look at it this way. It could be tough to get a casual ABB fan to go crazy over a lot of shows we think are over the top. I think you get what I mean.



I'd call myself a Deadhead. First started listening in 1988, first show 7/4/90, 9 shows total. I wish I could have gotten to more but, my age prevented that (I turned 18 in 1988). I've got a ton of stuff, Dick's Picks and and other commercial releases, plus with archive.org I've just been going crazy. So amazing to hear all the SBDs.

I tend to enjoy it all...I know that some folks are quite devoted to one era or the other but for me what era I listen to depends on my mood, really. '77-'81 is the era I really go to when I wanna groove around, '68-'74 when I want to sit and listen, and is also my definite favorite era when driving. Brent era when I need my B-3 fix (which is often) and while the Vince/Bruce era was the era I saw most of my shows (only saw one Brent show), I pretty much stick to the Bruce shows, especially June through September of '91.

quote:
Anyway, Being a long time Deadhead I really like 5/8/77...a lot. Is it my favorite show ever? No. It might not even be in my top 10. I actually prefer a couple shows from 1977 more than Cornell University, but there is some magic there however - especially in the second set. I find the Scarlet>Fire to be excellent - Very tight in fact. Listen to Jerry's fluid, trippy Mixolydian-key Jamming in between the two songs - it's quite good. Billy and Mickey's playing is pretty tribal too, which I love. The version "Estimated Prophet" which followed was pretty standard for that time period, but they had only been playing it live for a couple of months and the song was still developing. I do like this one though and Bobby's vocals are superb. Jerry's Mutron pedal also get a nice workout. I think where this show really takes off is right after this. I would say the St Stephen>Not Fade Away>St Stephen> Morning Dew close to the show is what makes this show a real Holy Grail deal for 1977. It's prime Dead, for that time period anyway. However, the following night at the Buffalo War Memorial on 5/9/77 pound for pound might be a better show. The entire month of May that year, the band was really playing extremely well. They might not have reached the peaks of 1971 thru 1974, but there is sone very tasty stuff in '77 regardless.



Awww, man. Now I gotta listen to it again?

Well, if I must...

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 08:20 PM
quote:
March 1973 at Nassau was good. Pigpen had died the day before and the band wore powder blue tuxedeos with day glo skeletons as a tribute. The Wall of Sound at Roosevelt Stadium in 1974 was great. The best show I ever saw was in San Francisco at Kezar Stadium in March of 1975. I was there front and center. I was also at the 1990 Nassau show with Branford. Best Bird Song I ever saw. I enjoy the tapes from 1968. I also like how the band employed technology in the early 1990's, but it seems not too many besides myself like the 90's.



Sometimes I think Vince gets a raw deal from Heads. From what I understand he didn't pick the sounds, they were sent to his synth by another person. I've also read that after Brent passed they didn't want the B-3, maybe it just hurt too much. Also, Vince had to learn over 150 songs in about a month, and Hornsby was already a Deadhead and had played in a GD cover band when he was younger. I love the acoustic piano sound in Dead music, although the accordion was hit and miss for me.

Plus, sadly, Vince had mental issues and that cancer diagnosis in '95. A very sad story, really.

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 08:34 PM
anyone here a big enough deadhead that they like the steal your face album?

anyways i agree donna's voice in the early 70's puts me off sometimes from listening to the live albums i have from that time but in the later 70's she was alright. pigpen years are the best though

 
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