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Author: Subject: Another look at "Keep on Growing"

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 10/17/2009 at 01:37 AM
For a number of years I've been suspicious whether Duane Allman played on this track from the Derek and the Dominos, "Layla and Other Love Songs". I started a topic about this a long time ago. http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=v iewthread&tid=5865#pid

The main argument against his participation has been that the triple guitar tracks all appear to be Statocasters. Also there is a lot of testimony that the track was completed prior to Duane joining the sessions.

Recently I went back to review some of the prodigious work that Peter Nelson did on this website to document day by day what occurred during the Layla album sessions ( http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=v iewthread&tid=19279#pid). Regarding Duane's participation the following table was listed:

Side, track...Song..............................Date.....Song
1.4................Nobody Knows You . . . .08.28....Tell the Truth
2.1................I Am Yours......................08.30....Key to the Highway
2.2................Anyday...........................08.31....Nobody Knows You . . .
2.3................Key to the Highway.....................Why Does Love . . .
3.1................Tell the Truth..................09.02....Have You Ever Loved . . .
3.2................Why Does Love . . . .......09.03....I Am Yours
3.3................Have You Ever Loved . . . ............Anyday
4.1................Little Wing...................................It's Too Late
4.2................It's Too Late...................09.09....Little Wing
4.3................Layla...........................................Layla
4.4................Thorn Tree . . . ...............09.10....Thorn Tree . . .

[Edited on 2004.10.15 by PeterNelson]

From several different sources (including Peter's work and the session track listings from the Layla 20th Anniversary edition), some of the overdubs for "Keep on Growing" were done on 9-9-70, the same day that "Little Wing" was completed and "Layla" was started. Obviously "Keep on Growing" was not completed prior to Duane's arrival and he was significantly present on 9-9-70. However, as everyone notes he didn't have the right weapon- a Gibson rather than a Strat. But there is also no reason that he couldn't have had a little fun and played along on a borrowed Strat to see how it might sound as an added track. Speculation for sure but not unreasonable, particularly as some of those licks are so Duaneish that maybe they truly are Duane.

Anyway, there is even more discussion of this on Han's great Duane Allman website.
http://www.duaneallman.info/duanedisckeepongrowing.htm

After serving up the evidence, including a chance to hear the track several different ways, he even provides a place where you can vote on whether you think that Duane is playing on the track. Fun stuff if searching for Duane material is your cup of tea. Enjoy!


[Edited on 10/17/2009 by dzobo]

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 10/17/2009 at 07:09 AM
I always thought Duane played on that track. It just sounds like him. Thanks for posting this.
 

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  posted on 10/17/2009 at 10:49 AM
however, on the "Layla Deluxe Box" the tracking info shows two things:
1. Duane was on the original session (track3 of the 16tracks) but erased (or just a mistake by whomever wrote the tracking sheets).......
2. .overdubs on Keep On Growing were done after 9/1 by EC.....
i think he had clearly been influenced by Duane. One particular repeated bend in the melody behind EC's vocals, sound very much like duane. It helps unify the other 2 strat leads guitars.
Perhaps EC just replayed the part the same way duane did it (or some variation)......
But I think he had been influenced by duane almost immediately after meeting him.....



[Edited on 10/19/2009 by PeachNutt]

 

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  posted on 10/17/2009 at 04:12 PM
im almost posative duane doesnt appear until track four, nobody knows when your down and out.
 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 12:22 PM
As per Peter Nelson's day by day documentation of the Layla sessions using the 20th Anniversary edition as guide, here is the recording history of the remaining tracks of the Layla album. I have put a '*' next to dates that Duane was clearly in the studio at some time during that day. The year is 1970.

Song................................Initial Recording Date...............Overdubs

I Looked Away...............................9-2*.............................9-4
Bell Bottom Blues............................9-2*.............................9-4, 9-9*
Keep on Growing............................9-1*.............................9-2*, 9-5, 9-9*

So a couple of things to note:

- all these tracks had initial sessions done on days when Duane was at the studio.
- these were not the first tracks recorded for the sessions so Duane had had some time to get musically famiiliar with his band members.
- Duane was not on the 9-4 & 5 overdub dates as it is documented that the ABB was playing shows in the Midwest.

I'd also like to post a comment I recently received from Hans, the webmaster at the previously referenced Duane Allman site.
quote:
I fully agree with you that Keep On Growing was not completed prior to Duane's arrival. In fact the basic tracks were recorded on September 1, AFTER Duane's arrival. As you know Duane already recorded several tracks at the end of August and the recording sheets show that Duane was also present on September 1. He recorded a lead part (overdub) that day on Why Does Love Got To Be So Sad. It is possible that Duane also recorded that same day on KOG, but we also know his name was crossed out of the record sheet from September 1. Did he really record that day on KOG or did he leave before the recording took place and they had to cross out his name? Why did he have to leave? The calendar shows no ABB concert that night.

..... The important point is that the first 3 tracks of the album were not recorded before Duane came to the studio, as I have read several times.
The recordings for Nobody Knows You and Key To The Highway were already finished before they started recording the first 3 tracks of the album. So the story that the tracks were all recorded in the same sequence as they appear on the album is not true.

While there is no smoking gun, other than some very suspcious licks, the alleged perpetrator was armed and on the scene.

[Edited on 10/18/2009 by dzobo]

[Edited on 10/18/2009 by dzobo]

[Edited on 10/18/2009 by dzobo]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 01:14 PM
I hear Duane and a Les Paul all over Bell Bottom Blues...

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 03:39 PM
towards the end of the last solo I think it sounds very much like Duane, but I think it is just Clapton playing some Duane licks that he just found out about. I am no expert but have always liked keep on growing for that part.
But I have also ran into a fair amount of people that believe clapton played the main solos throughout WDLGTBSS
so who really knows

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 04:45 PM
quote:
I hear Duane and a Les Paul all over Bell Bottom Blues...


really? imaybe you guys have a new version of this album. i have an original u.s pressing and it is clear he doesnt appear until track four. maybe the remaster cd has some edited out licks or something?

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 04:47 PM
quote:
quote:
I hear Duane and a Les Paul all over Bell Bottom Blues...


really? imaybe you guys have a new version of this album. i have an original u.s pressing and it is clear he doesnt appear until track four. maybe the remaster cd has some edited out licks or something?


I've always thought that I've been fortunate enough to get LPs and CDs that have Duane on these cuts. Pretty rare stuff .

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 06:20 PM
so what is the version/s that you have? are they available commercialy or is it a traded thing? i dont even have it on cd only the vinyl.
 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 06:35 PM
Ummm, If Hai hears Duane and a Les Paul all over Bell Bottom Blues, then I think it's safe to assume he's joking.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 07:22 PM
quote:
Ummm, If Hai hears Duane and a Les Paul all over Bell Bottom Blues, then I think it's safe to assume he's joking.


To me when the chorus is happening the cresendo in the background is ala Duane Fillmore You Don't Love Me ...just before Joy To The World even single notes behind " do you wanna hear me beg you to take me back" if it ain't Duane and Les Paul I'll be a monkeys uncle.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 07:26 PM
Dang, sorry, I thought you were joking Hai. I've got the remixed 20th anniv. edition close by, I'll give it a listen.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 07:41 PM
I just listened to 'Keep on Growing' From the Layla Album and at 2:48, a guitar comes in for a quick riff that sounds, to me, like Duane. Anyone want to give a listen and see if you agree?
 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 08:13 PM
Now this is definately 2 strats on BBB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruH-rqiJ-s4&feature=related

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 08:44 PM
Hey folks, I have been invisible of late. What the heck happened to Peter Nelson? I hope it was not something bad.

As to the song, one wonders if Duane might have decided that his part was not required. I know that there were times in his session work where he would refuse to add anything to a song if he felt it was fine just as it was.

Cheers

Carlos "still the original" Rivera

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 08:56 PM
quote:
Now this is definately 2 strats on BBB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruH-rqiJ-s4&feature=related




LMAO, excuse while I clean my monitor screen. Yabut, the kid on the left playing lead definitely threw a Duane lick in there. I'll defer to you and I'll be the monkey's uncle. I'm getting too old to trust my judgement. Besides it's starting to hurt being that focused while listening.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 09:27 PM
This thread really has me thinking now, hmm.

"I just listened to 'Keep on Growing' From the Layla Album and at 2:48, a guitar comes in for a quick riff that sounds, to me, like Duane. Anyone want to give a listen and see if you agree?"

I just listened and that definitely sounds like a Duane-esque lick but that tone is too similar to tone that is 100% Clapton from the rest of that album so I really don't think that part is Duane.

http://www.duaneallman.info/songs/Keep%20On%20Growing%20Carl%20Radle.mp3

That is a clip from Carl Radle's cassette player of all the instrumentals for the song, don't know if you guys caught that on the duaneallmaninfo site. It's a much easier way to hear all the guitar parts.

After listening through it in my headphones, I feel like if Duane is on this, he is somewhere on the left near the end of the song. I also believe that if he is in the recording, he did not use the Les Paul (who knows if he came in and picked up a Strat just to lay down something for fun). Some of the guitar on the left channel has a Strat tone but not exactly what you hear from Clapton for the rest of the album so that could possibly be Duane. (I have a lot of homework to do so I'll post time-stamps a little later)

Reasons that make me believe Duane didn't play on this though are that this guitar already had a lot of guitar parts (most of which are definitely Clapton) and wouldn't lead me to believe that it was missing something that Duane had to put on.

I also can't see Duane as a person going through songs that weren't recorded originally with him, on an album that he was just a guest on, and adding his own things. It could have been the producer or something but like someone else said, I feel like Duane also knew when a song was definitely good to go and didn't need any more.

Additionally, there is that one radio interview where Duane mentions that to tell who is playing, that one should listen for the Gibson tone (him) or the Fender tone (Clapton). Granted this was just one song that 'possibly' has some minor overdubs by him and is sort of a small technicality but I really believe this is all much simpler than we think and he really just played his Gibson on some songs.

Finally, listen to the end duel of 'Why Does Love Got to Be So Sad'. You can easily tell who is who tone wise and the licks that Duane plays are absolutely his kind of licks and he dominates that song, while it seems that Clapton's guitar work merely seems to emulate Duane's licks and don't have too much of Eric's own feel. This to me shows that Clapton was capable of and had played Duane-like licks, and the coincidence that this was recorded the same day as Keep on Growing along with the fact that all the dubs on KOG seems to be Strats, lead me to think that it is very plausible that it was solely Clapton on that song.

Sorry for the long post but this was actually on my mind all day and I just had to get it out.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 09:53 PM
quote:
LMAO, excuse while I clean my monitor screen


You likey...ehh Zimm ?

OK after a medetative listen I hear just a touch of that Fender quack on the 2 note lead on behind the chorus on BBB, the very last note of this phrase...but to me....Duane singlehandedley built the Great Wall of China.

 

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  posted on 10/18/2009 at 09:53 PM
quote:
Hey folks, I have been invisible of late. What the heck happened to Peter Nelson? I hope it was not something bad.



We've even had threads yelling Key Oh Key !

 

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  posted on 10/19/2009 at 07:05 AM
quote:
I hear Duane and a Les Paul all over Bell Bottom Blues...


Me 2 Jon - I find it hard to believe he's not on it.

 

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  posted on 10/19/2009 at 12:02 PM
quote:
Now this is definately 2 strats on BBB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruH-rqiJ-s4&feature=related<" target=_blank> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruH-rqiJ-s4&feature=related< /


Thanks for posting this. Nice to see the next generation carrying on the legacy. Maybe Derek can give them a few pointers.

And good to see you posting again, Carlos. Somehow thought you would show up for this party. If only Peter Nelson would also make an appearance. I too am concerned about what may have happened to him. Anybody out there have any information on his well-being?

BTW, another great poster from the earlier thread was WheelChairBandit. Had a great ear for guitar parts. Given his screen name I fear that the law may have caught up with him.

[Edited on 10/19/2009 by dzobo]

 

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  posted on 10/19/2009 at 12:43 PM
quote:
I also can't see Duane as a person going through songs that weren't recorded originally with him, on an album that he was just a guest on, and adding his own things.
quote:


Wasn't that why he was brought in in the first place? Just askin....

[Edited on 10/19/2009 by brofan]

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 05:31 PM
this thread has caused me to re-study the album.
tough work, but somebody's gotta do it.

My ears aren't great at distinguishing a Strat from a Les Paul, but I'm learning. I hear what your talking about in Keep on Growing.
I'm struggling with Little Wing. To me, the main, "soaring" guitar part sounds like Duane, but for some reason I would think that EC would want to take that part for himself.

what do you think?

 

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  posted on 10/20/2009 at 07:36 PM
LoL, "but somebody's gotta do it"

I say that's Duane all over Little Wing, without a doubt. But, haisija will probably say it's Jim Gordon on a strat.

 

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