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Author: Subject: Credibility Check

Zen Peach





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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 06:46 PM
I hope I don't come down with a life threatening illness and my doctor only gets "The essence of the story correct"

By JONATHAN WEISMAN

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama, seeking to make a case for health-insurance regulation, told a poignant story to a joint session of Congress last week. An Illinois man getting chemotherapy was dropped from his insurance plan when his insurer discovered an unreported gallstone the patient hadn't known about.

"They delayed his treatment, and he died because of it," the president said in the nationally televised address.

In fact, the man, Otto S. Raddatz, didn't die because the insurance company rescinded his coverage once he became ill, an act known as recission. The efforts of his sister and the office of Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan got Mr. Raddatz's policy reinstated within three weeks of his April 2005 rescission and secured a life-extending stem-cell transplant for him. Mr. Raddatz died this year, nearly four years after the insurance showdown.

Obama aides say the president got the essence of the story correct. Mr. Raddatz was dropped from his insurance plan weeks before a scheduled stem-cell transplant.

In a letter, Babs Waldman, medical director of the Illinois attorney general's office, excoriated the insurer, Fortis Health, which is now Assurant Health. Mr. Raddatz "suddenly faces not only life-threatening illness but now the inability to afford the only treatment that may help him," Dr. Waldman wrote to the insurer May 3, 2005.

Peter Duckler, a spokesman for Assurant Health, said the company "can never comment on an insured's coverage due to confidentiality issues."

The patient's sister, Peggy M. Raddatz, testified before the House Energy and Commerce oversight subcommittee June 16 that her brother ultimately received treatment that "extended his life approximately three years." Nowhere in the hearing did she say her brother died because of the delay. Ms. Raddatz didn't return calls seeking comment.

Obama speech writers appear to have been informed by erroneous media reports, including an article on Slate.com that stated, "The delay in treatment eliminated Raddatz's chances of recovery, and he died." Its author, Timothy Noah, said Wednesday that he wasn't contacted by the White House and didn't realize Mr. Raddatz hadn't died because of the treatment delay.

Another story that Mr. Obama used from the same House investigation squares with the testimony of Robin Beaton, who said she was dropped by her insurer days before a scheduled double mastectomy. By the time her insurance was reinstated, in part because of the intervention of Rep. Joe Barton (R., Tex.), her tumor had tripled in size. The president understated that in his address, saying it had more than doubled in size.

Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D., Ill.), a member of the House subcommittee that investigated the Raddatz case, said there may have been insufficient vetting of Mr. Raddatz's story by the president's aides. But, she added, "To focus on that is kind of a 'gotcha.'"

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 07:09 PM
Most doctors make a diagnosis in under 2 minutes. They have no time to get anywhere close to an essence in many cases.

The essence is that insurance companies engage in health rationing.

quote:
Victims of 'Health Insurance Bureaucracy' Speak Out
Lawmakers See Need to Reform Health Insurance Claim Delays, Denials
By DEVIN DWYER
Sept. 16, 2009


"These guys are just playing with my life."

Erinn Ackley still remembers her father's words as he struggled with an aggressive form of cancer in 2006. Bill Ackley had health insurance through his job as a public school teacher. But as his life hung in the balance, his insurance company questioned the necessity of a potentially life-saving treatment doctors prescribed and, for a time, refused to pay.

After months of appeals to overcome the "bureaucratic roadblocks," Ackley finally received approval for the treatment he sought. But to his daughter Erinn, the delay just might have cost her father his life.

"Dad was finally transplanted 126 days after the first transplant request [but] he never returned home," said Ackley. "He passed away at the age of 57, leaving a grieving widow and daughter, and only one grandchild born 17 months later, that he will never play with."

"When a loved one is going through a life or death struggle, you can hear the clock ticking every minute," she said.

Ackley's story was one of several accounts shared with members of the House Oversight and Reform Committee on Wednesday of the often heart-wrenching struggles some Americans face in dealing with the "private health insurance bureaucracy."

"We're always more informed when we hear about personal experience," said subcommittee Chairman Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio.

At the hearing, lawmakers of both parties agreed that delays  or denials  of coverage like the one faced by Ackley are unjustifiable and have become too common.

"Every single American would agree that what you went through was wrong," said Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio. "Americans hate being told what to do, and this idea that someone is going to get between them and their doctor doesn't sit well."

The story of Mark Gendernalik's infant daughter, Sidney, was among the emotional testimony before the committee regarding insurers' attempts to avoid costly payouts.

"They were trying to exhaust us," said Gendernalik, the father of twin girls from Los Angeles, Calif., of the repeated delays and denials for an expensive treatment Sydney needed for a rare infant spasms syndrome that can lead to irreversible mental retardation.

"After six days of being inpatient, doctors said we have to discharge you, we can't get a response from your insurance groups," he said, choking up.

"I spend so much time fighting to get care. I feel like medical manager for my daughter, not her daddy& I need you people to let me be her daddy," he implored members of the committee. "We are disenfranchised now& all I want to do now is go home and be a dad."

Similar scenarios have been the target of state insurance regulators around the country in recent years, resulting in a number of cases against insurers for wrongfully delaying or denying claims.

PacifiCare, a subsidiary of United HealthCare which also insured Gendernalik, paid a hefty settlement in California in 2008 for improperly denying 130,000 claims, among other violations.

"Commercial plans will always, always, compete to avoid sick people, even in a regular marketplace," said Karen Pollitz, director of the Georgetown University Health Policy Institute.

"There has never been a more deadly time for patients in terms of insurance practices," testified Dr. Linda Peeno, a former review physician for Humana insurance in Louisville, Kentucky.




http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/health-insurance-denials-delays-target-lawma kers/story?id=8590781

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 07:44 PM
Sorry you missed the point of the article...


This headline also just popped up:


Dems unhappy with proposed tax in health care bill

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 08:11 PM
Pretty much all the presidents have relied on research done by his aides and have included erroneous information in their speeches. The essence of his point was true just a few facts wrong. If not these people, then there are hundreds of others whose stories could have been used.

As for not being happy with the proposed healthcare bill...if it's anywhere what that guy proposed yesterday, the country would be better off without one. From what I gathered, we'd all be worse off than we are now and the insurance companies would be doing much better.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 08:16 PM
quote:
Pretty much all the presidents have relied on research done by his aides and have included erroneous information in their speeches. The essence of his point was true just a few facts wrong. If not these people, then there are hundreds of others whose stories could have been used.

As for not being happy with the proposed healthcare bill...if it's anywhere what that guy proposed yesterday, the country would be better off without one. From what I gathered, we'd all be worse off than we are now and the insurance companies would be doing much better.


But he didn't use any number of other ones Ann, he used that one, that possibly got a number of gasps from concerned citizens who view the ObamCare as the answer.

I'm sure he is glad you are standing up for his lie to the American people....The essence...indeed.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 08:17 PM
quote:
Pretty much all the presidents have relied on research done by his aides and have included erroneous information in their speeches. The essence of his point was true just a few facts wrong. If not these people, then there are hundreds of others whose stories could have been used.

As for not being happy with the proposed healthcare bill...if it's anywhere what that guy proposed yesterday, the country would be better off without one. From what I gathered, we'd all be worse off than we are now and the insurance companies would be doing much better.


I wonder if you would have felt this way if the former President got some facts long. I suspect the word liar might have popped up.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 08:20 PM
Call it what you want. I'm not saying it was right, I'm just saying it hasn't been uncommon for any president to get a story wrong. Granted, it wasn't as spectacular as
'we have weapons of mass destruction' and the sincere assurance as to the veracity of the statement we got from a number of people in the last administration, but I don't figure it's going to kill anyone as part of the fall out.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 08:25 PM
quote:
Call it what you want. I'm not saying it was right, I'm just saying it hasn't been uncommon for any president to get a story wrong. Granted, it wasn't as spectacular as
'we have weapons of mass destruction' and the sincere assurance as to the veracity of the statement we got from a number of people in the last administration, but I don't figure it's going to kill anyone as part of the fall out.


Bingo , we have a winner within 5 posts, congratulations Ann

If you guy is wrong, point the finger at Bush

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 08:38 PM
No, I acknowledged Obama wasn't factual but other than being wrong on the facts, please tell me how it's going to change life in the free world. It's obvious from the first post that you're horrified and indignant that a couple of stories were inaccurate. Please accept my apologies on behalf of the number of us who have lost the ability to care about something so insignificant.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 08:48 PM
quote:
No, I acknowledged Obama wasn't factual but other than being wrong on the facts, please tell me how it's going to change life in the free world. It's obvious from the first post that you're horrified and indignant that a couple of stories were inaccurate. Please accept my apologies on behalf of the number of us who have lost the ability to care about something so insignificant.


When that part of the speech was the lynch pin to get folks on board and many people prolly swallowed it whole, thats the part that could change life in this country. My God, Obama isn't talking about Healthcare for the world now is he?

Don't down play the signifigance of this. Obama would not have put it in the speech if he thought it wasn't going to garner support.

Not horrified or indignant, its what I've come to expect when someone is trying to sell something that everyone isn't buying.

You don't have to apologize Ann, it's just politics, the story will change tomorrow.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 09:25 PM
quote:
Sorry you missed the point of the article...


This headline also just popped up:


Dems unhappy with proposed tax in health care bill


I missed your point but I got the last word "gotcha." If you sit around waiting for these mistakes they're gonna come.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 09:53 PM
No one is horrified or outraged. But it's just typical and what's good for the goose is good for the gander unless you are an unapologetic partisan in which case if my guy does it it's no big deal if the other guy does it it's awful. This in a nutshell is what is wrong with our political system today. Remember, ultimately Republicans drove Nixon out of office. I have serious doubts if the same result would happen today.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/17/2009 at 09:58 PM
I must say how interesting it is to have a Democrat in the White House now. Just to sit back and watch the attitudes of people now, the positions they take, and the statements they make.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 12:35 AM
quote:
I must say how interesting it is to have a Democrat in the White House now. Just to sit back and watch the attitudes of people now, the positions they take, and the statements they make.


I called it even before Obama was sworn in, the duplicitousness of the modern day liberal movement. Darn near everything I predicted is happening as we speak. It's almost too easy. Defensiveness when this should be the Golden Age combined with gloryhole adoration. Only thing to do is sit back and watch it play out further.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 07:31 AM
quote:
I called it even before Obama was sworn in, the duplicitousness of the modern day liberal movement. Darn near everything I predicted is happening as we speak. It's almost too easy. Defensiveness when this should be the Golden Age combined with gloryhole adoration. Only thing to do is sit back and watch it play out further.
When is it that 'you called it', Derek? As you were standing in the poll lines getting ready to cast your vote for the man? Because what I understand from reading through these pages is that you did vote for Obama and I'm confused as to why you would have done this while you were so busy making predictions of another sort and working out these 'calls' about the 'duplicitousness of the modern day liberal movement'. Seems like a contradiction (and makes it a more than a little difficult to take your current passionate railing against the 'modern day liberal movement' - or anything else, really - seriously).



[Edited on 9/18/2009 by lolasdeb]

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 07:42 AM
quote:
quote:
I called it even before Obama was sworn in, the duplicitousness of the modern day liberal movement. Darn near everything I predicted is happening as we speak. It's almost too easy. Defensiveness when this should be the Golden Age combined with gloryhole adoration. Only thing to do is sit back and watch it play out further.
When is it that 'you called it', Derek? As you were standing in the poll lines getting ready to cast your vote for the man? Because what I understand from reading through these pages is that you did vote for Obama and I'm confused as to why you would have done this while you were so busy making predictions of another sort and working out these 'calls' about the 'duplicitousness of the modern day liberal movement'. Seems like a contradiction (and makes it a more than a little difficult to take your current passionate railing against the 'modern day liberal movement' seriously).

[Edited on 9/18/2009 by lolasdeb]


Both dougrhon and Derek voted for Obama. Not sure how a brain can swing so dramatically and easily from one axis to another. It is very contradictory and if they saw this kind of behavior on the part of a liberal they would pounce on it immediately.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 10:17 AM
quote:
No, I acknowledged Obama wasn't factual but other than being wrong on the facts, please tell me how it's going to change life in the free world. It's obvious from the first post that you're horrified and indignant that a couple of stories were inaccurate. Please accept my apologies on behalf of the number of us who have lost the ability to care about something so insignificant.


"Wasn't factual" is merely an extremely polite way of admitting BarryO is a liar, which indeed he is.

 

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As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 11:50 AM
Good grief, Dutch. As bigann saix, presidentw don't research every comment they use in speeches.

would you have even mentioned this if Bush was the speaker?

I think not.

Duplicity can be a two-way street.

Derek travels both lanes.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 11:56 AM
I believe the PC term is "misspoke". LOL. .
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 12:17 PM
quote:
Good grief, Dutch. As bigann saix, presidentw don't research every comment they use in speeches.

would you have even mentioned this if Bush was the speaker?

I think not.

Duplicity can be a two-way street.

Derek travels both lanes.


SCB, the president shouldn't research the facts, thats why he has a team of professionals to flush out the details and set it up for him. Hell, he's the messenger in this mess, but the egg is on his face.

Would I have mentioned it if Bush were the speaker? I don't know, i don't listen or watch political speeches but I do read the reporting on them.
But if Bush had done it I would not have lined up to defend the error...or try and spin it to minimize the gaff.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 12:26 PM
quote:
quote:
Good grief, Dutch. As bigann saix, presidentw don't research every comment they use in speeches.

would you have even mentioned this if Bush was the speaker?

I think not.

Duplicity can be a two-way street.

Derek travels both lanes.


SCB, the president shouldn't research the facts, thats why he has a team of professionals to flush out the details and set it up for him. Hell, he's the messenger in this mess, but the egg is on his face.

Would I have mentioned it if Bush were the speaker? I don't know, i don't listen or watch political speeches but I do read the reporting on them.
But if Bush had done it I would not have lined up to defend the error...or try and spin it to minimize the gaff.


Why? The 'gaffe" should be minimized. The simple fact is that insurance companies often drop people's coverage and they die. In this case, the insurance companies did exactly what Obama said they did. I guess you'd be happier if the guy had died four years earlier, but I'm sure you'd find another "gaffe" to complain about.

I love all this talk about "duplicity" from people who turned the other their heads while Bush spent a trillion dollars on a war he lied to start, and who now talk about stuff like this.

I honestly don't know where this country is headed when we have so many who enabled Bush to do what he did, and are now trying to impede any effort to clean up the mess.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 12:44 PM
quote:
I honestly don't know where this country is headed when we have so many who enabled Bush to do what he did, and are now trying to impede any effort to clean up the mess.



So, turning Bush's 1.7 trillion dollar deficit into a 9 to 12 trillion dollar deficit is cleaning up the mess?? Got it!

quote:
Good grief, Dutch. As bigann saix, presidentw don't research every comment they use in speeches.

would you have even mentioned this if Bush was the speaker?

I think not.

Duplicity can be a two-way street.

Derek travels both lanes.




Yeah, I would and I did. I called Bush the worst communicating president in my lifetime and did it while he was still in office, and ripped him for the deficits, not using the presidential veto, not firing Rumsfield back in 2003, not firing Cheney in 2004, and on and on. Obama gets three health care scare stories dead wrong in front of the country and a joint session of congress and all of a sudden its no big deal. If Obama took a dump on a paper plate and put a lit candle on it and said it was birthday cake you'd be grabbing a spoon. Not me. I ripped on Bush while he was there. That's the difference.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 01:54 PM
No, the difference is you live in a suburb of Cincinnati, and have all your life, and live your life vicariously through people you talk to. It is very important for you to be right, and the hero, about everything, even on an internet site, from your quarterback armchair. That is the difference.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 01:56 PM
Oh, btw, you forgot "faux enlightenment," or have you dropped that from your routine?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/18/2009 at 01:57 PM
quote:
Sorry you missed the point of the article...




I think you missed the point Dutch. Insurance companies DO deny services and ration care.

Just because this example is erroneous doesn't change the point the President was making.


I was denied services by Travelers (now United healthcare) that caused a minor infection in my leg
to become a major infection and required hospitalization. That triggered the autoimmune diseases
from which I now suffer and caused my disability.

It happens

It is real.

this "credibility Check" is nit picking.




 

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