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Author: Subject: Where can I find a copy of Obama's Health Care Plan?

True Peach





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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 09:08 AM
I am trying to locate a copy of the actual health care plan. Does anybody know if there is a down-loadable PDF of the ACTUAL-REAL document? I have tried Googling all morning, but I only find snippets from various organizations who are abviously trying to pad their side of the debate.

Any help here?

Thanks!

RB

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 09:15 AM
http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health_care/plan/

http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/documents/obama_plan_card.PDF

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 09:36 AM
Neither of the two links (above) open the actual plan. The second link goes to a page that seems to have been pulled.

Can you get a printed copy at the Post Office or other location?

 

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Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.

People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.



Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 09:56 AM
quote:
Neither of the two links (above) open the actual plan. The second link goes to a page that seems to have been pulled.

Can you get a printed copy at the Post Office or other location?


Do you have Adobe reader installed? The second link opens the .pdf of the proposal. The other link opens fine for me. :-/

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:02 AM
There is no real Obama plan. As both sides of the liberal movement in the Democratic Party fight over the public option, House won't vote for it unless its in, moderates won't vote for it unless its out, Obama says he is for it yet will throw it under the bus by backing the senate Finance committee version, who the hell knows.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:17 AM
Yeah, I've got Adobe Reader. I finally located a document: "House Bill 3200".

I read about as much as I could digest (Like my cousin Forest, I am only an idiot). I was trying to locate any section that might be interpreted (or misinterpreted) as granting health care rights to illegals (or non-nationals).

There are several e-mails and various websites that point to "Page 50 of HR 3200". Some even spell out in English that the bill "gurantees services for non-nationals". Reading the document, I could find no real language spelling it out in such terms.

In reading the document, I couldn't find any such claim written in plain English. The "non-discrimination" clause makes me scratch my head a little. Having read most of the document, I am still not real clear on exactly what it says in this regard.

By the way - I'm not attempting to throw any political jabs in one direction or the other. I am just trying to figure out exactly what the policy or plan (if there is a plan) says. I'm also trying to figure out what (if any) section caused the Rep. from South Carolina to go off like he did.

Thanks to all!

RB

 

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Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.

People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.



Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:21 AM
Story in my paper today says:

"But Wilson is far from alone in thinking that the problem is not what's in the bill, it's what the bill leaves out - namely a provision to enforce the no -illegals rule."

 

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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:23 AM
quote:
Yeah, I've got Adobe Reader. I finally located a document: "House Bill 3200".

I read about as much as I could digest (Like my cousin Forest, I am only an idiot). I was trying to locate any section that might be interpreted (or misinterpreted) as granting health care rights to illegals (or non-nationals).

There are several e-mails and various websites that point to "Page 50 of HR 3200". Some even spell out in English that the bill "gurantees services for non-nationals". Reading the document, I could find no real language spelling it out in such terms.

In reading the document, I couldn't find any such claim written in plain English. The "non-discrimination" clause makes me scratch my head a little. Having read most of the document, I am still not real clear on exactly what it says in this regard.

By the way - I'm not attempting to throw any political jabs in one direction or the other. I am just trying to figure out exactly what the policy or plan (if there is a plan) says. I'm also trying to figure out what (if any) section caused the Rep. from South Carolina to go off like he did.

Thanks to all!

RB


Rusty, the Library of Congress website, thomas.loc.gov, is the best place to go.

Here is the page for H.R. 3200. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.3200:

All the info you need is there, text of legislation, summaries, co-sponsors, legislative history, etc. Since bills change all the time you can check the amendments and they also do a great job of turnaround time when there are major changes as far as posting the latest versions, it usually only takes an hour or two for them to do that. You can also link to the voting rolls on legislation that has been passed.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:29 AM
quote:
Story in my paper today says:

"But Wilson is far from alone in thinking that the problem is not what's in the bill, it's what the bill leaves out - namely a provision to enforce the no -illegals rule."


Show us where it says that Illegals will be covered.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:32 AM
Answer - I'd love to believe everything he said the other night, honestly.

In my paper today here are some headlines:

Experts: 'Savings' won't fund plan

Obama's speech fails to move lawmakers' votes

Obama plan may increase premiums

 

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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:36 AM
The illustration I heard last night about illegals was in the case of a traffic accident when paramedics were called and the question asked was "should the victim be treated without asking if he or she is illegal or should we all be required to carry a card entitling us to treatment?'

I don't know about the rest of you but I've been rushed to the emergency room and the first person through the door was someone wanting the insurance information.

 

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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:38 AM
Interesting. We don't mind illegals cooking the food we eat in restaurants, or cleaning up after we eat, or cleaning the rooms in hotels we stay at, or picking the fruit we eat, or doing all the other things that many Americans just won't do. But if they get sick, we don't any of our money going towards their treatment.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:40 AM
quote:
Interesting. We don't mind illegals cooking the food we eat in restaurants, or cleaning up after we eat, or cleaning the rooms in hotels we stay at, or picking the fruit we eat, or doing all the other things that many Americans just won't do. But if they get sick, we don't any of our money going towards their treatment.


What cracks me up is the uproar over the illegals comes from the side that ran Congress for 14 years and had total dominance for 6 of those years and did exactly jack squat about the situation.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:43 AM
quote:
Story in my paper today says:

"But Wilson is far from alone in thinking that the problem is not what's in the bill, it's what the bill leaves out - namely a provision to enforce the no -illegals rule."


I THINK what Wilson flipped out about is that emergency rooms can't turn away illegal aliens, I believe that is a true statement. And would still be that way after any Healthcare bill that is passed. I could be wrong...

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:43 AM
quote:
Answer - I'd love to believe everything he said the other night, honestly.

In my paper today here are some headlines:

Experts: 'Savings' won't fund plan

Obama's speech fails to move lawmakers' votes

Obama plan may increase premiums


I am a bit surprised a few moderate GOP folks weren't swayed considering 95% of what was presented means no change to the huge Health Insurance industry profits. And most of them are taking big money from the Health Insurance Industry.

[Edited on 9/11/2009 by Peachypetewi]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 10:44 AM
quote:
quote:
Story in my paper today says:

"But Wilson is far from alone in thinking that the problem is not what's in the bill, it's what the bill leaves out - namely a provision to enforce the no -illegals rule."


I THINK what Wilson flipped out about is that emergency rooms can't turn away illegal aliens, I believe that is a true statement. And would still be that way after any Healthcare bill that is passed. I could be wrong...


You are correct. That is currently the law of the land.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 11:00 AM
The entire debate over health care intrigues me. It's hard to get any FACTS, as anything that you can read either supports one side of the debate or the other or like the HR 3200 Bill - just too damned vague.

If you will indulge me for a moment, I have lived through several events that give me ... thoughts about the entire situation.

1. No, emergency rooms can't turn anyone out. I do believe this is regardless of nationality.

This coming February marks the 5th anniversary of my brother's death. Some of you might recall reading my rather lengthy post at that time.

In short, my brother (a Vietnam veteran and one-time all-American boy) was homeless living on the streets of Atlanta or wherever else he found himself. On an extremely cold night, he colapsed on the streets and was taken to a state funded hospital where he later died of complications of Hypothermia. My brother had no insurance and no money, but he was given treatment befitting a king.

2. You can't get insurance if you have a pre-existing condition.

My sister died exactly one year ago this past weekend of cancer. She and her husband decided earlier that health insurance for her (hubby had insurance from his employer) was just too expensive at the time. After she was diagnosed with cancer, she was able to find coverage to help defer the expensive costs of chemo-therepy and other needs.

I know that her case was probably rare, but she was able to get some coverage.

3. The Private Option

When all the dust settles and the proposed plan is adopted (I think it will), who will actually administer the plan? Very likely it will be the same folks who currently administer Medicare and Medicaid - PRIVATE insurance companies.

President Obama actually cited out, "... the state of Alabama, where one company administers 90% of the state's healthcare ..." in his speech the other night. Well, first of all he got his numbers wrong. It is a high number (75%), but not as high as he stated.

Now, various people (doctors, small businesses, etc) are pleased or dis-pleased as they would be with most any situation. But this large provider actually pays doctors much less than they bill on a regular basis.

I just wish we could cut through the mumbo-jumbo and just state in plain English exactly what the new bill will call for.

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.

People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.



Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 11:46 AM
quote:
I THINK what Wilson flipped out about is that emergency rooms can't turn away illegal aliens,


No, what he flipped about was he believed the President was lying with regards to proposed health care coverage. Obama was addressing current disinformation being spread by many on the right, one of the lies being that the health care reform being proposed would specifically cover illegal aliens, which is absolutely untrue. Thats when Wilson yelled "you lie!".

quote:
I believe that is a true statement. And would still be that way after any Healthcare bill that is passed. I could be wrong...


ER's have always had the obligation to treat whoever walks in the door, as it should be.

 

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Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 12:11 PM
quote:
quote:
Answer - I'd love to believe everything he said the other night, honestly.

In my paper today here are some headlines:

Experts: 'Savings' won't fund plan

Obama's speech fails to move lawmakers' votes

Obama plan may increase premiums

I'll tell you what...

If his speech the other night, which I personally found very inspiring and profound and considered to be "history in the making", turns out to be a crock of sh1t, or if I determine that he was playing with semantics and technicalities and other political trickery, my opinion of him will drastically decline perhaps to the point where he'll lose my vote for 2012.


I couldn't agree more...no surprise I did not vote for him, but I have ALWAYS found his speeches to be very inspiring and profound as well. Unfortunately ... well you know the story.

Your proposition sounds very fair. He is no doubt a different type of politician...he hung himself out there the other night, not many do that, at all. I want to believe it, I do.

Time will tell as to what our elected officials make of HR3200.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/11/2009 at 12:21 PM
quote:
quote:
I THINK what Wilson flipped out about is that emergency rooms can't turn away illegal aliens,


No, what he flipped about was he believed the President was lying with regards to proposed health care coverage. Obama was addressing current disinformation being spread by many on the right, one of the lies being that the health care reform being proposed would specifically cover illegal aliens, which is absolutely untrue. Thats when Wilson yelled "you lie!".

quote:
I believe that is a true statement. And would still be that way after any Healthcare bill that is passed. I could be wrong...


ER's have always had the obligation to treat whoever walks in the door, as it should be.


Don't private hospital ERs often send them to the public hospital down the street?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2009 at 11:44 AM
Bills signed by the president are laws, and subject to judicial review (i.e., courts declaring parts unconstitutional, or, repealed/rewritten (by later legislation).

For example, three prior laws on the books that certain groups want to get rid of:

(1) The Hyde Amendment, a law passed by Congress and signed by President Reagan prohibiting the expenditure of any public/federal dollars for purposes of abortion. Currently, there seems to be an effort by some groups to amend or repeal this LAW.

(2) Don't Ask Don't Tell, passed by Congress and signed into law by President Clinton. Some groups want to repeal or overturn this LAW.

(3) Defense of Marriage Act, a law passed by Congress and signed into law by President Clinton. Again some groups want to repeal or overturn this LAW.

If Obama is so dead certain that any bill signed into law does not lead later to coverage for ILLEGAL aliens, perhaps the Democrats would have no problem with adding the following provisions to such a bill.

First, add language that provides for jurisdication stripping (denying cert or judicial review) from the federal courts, as allowed under Article 3 Section 2 of the Constitution. That way, Democrats could PROVE that no further attacks on that provision would come from outside of Congress.

Secondly, add language to the bill on this provision requiring a super-super-majority (of 80 votes or more) in order for CONGRESS to consider any changes to the ILLEGALs.

IF the Democrats are talking about the so-called "Nuclear Option", one thinks that sufficient numbers of the Democratic party hope to later provide benefits for illegals by modifying any bill signed into law this term.

So, I ask the Democrats in Congress, and their supporters throughout the US, why would you not want to support language in the bill if it ultimately made it impossible to provide benefits under any bill signed by Obama? One suspects that they are looking for a back-door way in. For example, if the bill denied such benefits to ILLEGALS, aren't they then tempted to provide amnesty and benefits? And, wow, how many more ILLEGALS would find it worthwhile to come over.

I remain cynical that any bill signed into law would provide for a PERMANENT prohibition on benefits to ILLEGALS.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2009 at 11:58 AM
I think an issue that begs an answer is, how would one identify an illegal alien in an emergency situation? As I've stated previously, anyone who ends up at a hospital has to meet with the 'gatekeeper' who arrives before the doctor to find out if you have insurance. Perhaps the process of identifying those not qualified to receive benefits would better be at the time of enrolling in a policy. I have to provide ownership of a car to insure it, providing proof of legal residency to purchase a policy doesn't seem that different.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2009 at 04:17 PM
Ann, if a person shows up at an emergency room with obvious trauma (severe bleeding, unconcious, etc), I think they get triaged with all other patients. Once stabalized, they may indeed be put back on the street. Even if the person has no ID, I'm pretty sure the ER personnel still have to at least try to stabalize them. I don't know if there are laws regarding this, but the physycians oath pretty much mandates it. Right?

An "illegal" or "non-national" would probably not be able to get any long-term type treatment (cancer or other on-going type).

This is really just a guess on my part.

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.

People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.



Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2009 at 05:25 PM
quote:
I think an issue that begs an answer is, how would one identify an illegal alien in an emergency situation?


Well, obviously the Doctor would probably know the person as "that guy that cuts my grass". Of course other means by which to identify illegals exist such as:

Wallet full of taxpayer dollars (picture of Obama included)
14 kids and the wife (and oldest daughter) is pregnant
Freshly filled out voter registration card (ACORN)
Skin is brown
Speaking funny language
Appear 'dirty'

 

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Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2009 at 05:28 PM
You're both right....they are bound by law I think to stabalize the person who presents in crisis. But there are also cases of the patient without insurance either being transported to a county hospital or put back out on the street. And as WbD said, there are still the options of paying full price or finding a benevolent organization to pick up the tab.

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 
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