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Author: Subject: CIA-torture codes and procedures

Universal Peach





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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 06:10 PM
I am sad to see the US government officials and our president , who have sworn to protect this country from ememies abroad and within, now investigate our own services and agencies trying to protect us. I have friends and family in the armed services both here and in countries in conflict. I have stated before in similar threads that I support interogation methods now condemed. Here's the thing, If a captured PRISONER OF WAR has any information that will save an American serviceman or woman, I am in support of any method that will provide that information. This is war, not some namby
pamby game. It's win or lose, life and death. Whatever it takes...the alternative of losing this war is something I don't think Americans want to face.
Further, my son is one of America's finest in Special Op's...if there is someone who has information that could save his life. I would go to any length to get that information. I don't care what method is used. Criticize me all you want, dont care. I stand firm in that belief.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 06:30 PM
I find it NUTZ that one of the lead stories on the News is about our threatening a terrorist with harming his family. I could see if we presented him with the severed head of one his kids... but a threat is front page news ?

SPDB - I hear you at not stopping at anything to protect your son. Who could blame you for that ?

Being life long New Yorkers, we take what happened on 9/11 very personally. I believe that many of us would have done just about anything to prevent that from happening.

USA -- Home of the Free because of the Brave.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 06:33 PM
A country that professes to be the leader of the free world should hold itself to an international standard. If we don't want to do so, then we need to stop telling the rest of the world we're superior.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 06:41 PM
Brent, here is something that you will hear from few liberals on this board- I look forward to someday thanking your son for his service in person, and we'll pick a few while we're at it.

DH

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 06:53 PM
quote:
Brent, here is something that you will hear from few liberals on this board- I look forward to someday thanking your son for his service in person, and we'll pick a few while we're at it.

DH


My brother served in the Navy, he's about as left-wing as they come, and when I told him
about Mr. DFC's comment above, he laughed his face off, Cliff Claven. He said to me, "The last
thing I'd want after serving in the Kosovo War (in '99) is to come home and have a pat
on the back from these right-winger know-it-alls who sit behind a computer all day and
never served their country." As for me, it's a pleasure when my bandmates and I (all proud
left-wingers) play yearly benefits at the local VFW to raise funds for care-packages for
the good folks serving overseas.
NOTE TO DEREK: Get out in the REAL world once in a while. It might raise your
intelligence level.

Wow. What an ignoramus.


[Edited on 8/25/2009 by woodsdweller]

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 06:55 PM
I would be extremely stressed by my sons torture. I can guarantee you, he knows the
responsibility he undertakes, and takes that risk everyday of his service life so you can post your drivel here. You don't think any American captured is'nt tortured in the most horrific ways you cannot comprehend? And you whine about waterboarding or a verbal threat? That is very sad. If we, as a nation, were to do what other countries do to our captured servicemen and women, you could voice some degree of complaint. That is not the case at all, not even close. I still would support 'whatever it takes'...to win.
Just ask one of the survivors or their families of victims, of 911, or the USS Cole, or the UN bombing, or any of the roadside bombs, or the suicide attacks, or the RPG's that kids and women use to kill our servivcemen and women. Your comments denegrate the very servicemen and women that give all to protect you.

men and women.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 07:02 PM
Tell it to osama.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 07:03 PM
quote:
Brent, here is something that you will hear from few liberals on this board- I look forward to someday thanking your son for his service in person, and we'll pick a few while we're at it.
What is it you feel you won't be hearing from 'liberals on this board', Derek? The picking or the thank-you to someone who has served this country? Because if it's the latter you are out of line. I challenge you to print anything from folks on this site, liberal or otherwise, that points to a disrespect towards our servicemen. I have seen many comments from both liberals and conservatives that indicate instead a sense of gratitude and appreciation for the men and women who make these kind of sacrifices. And I guarantee you ... if you do go back through archives (as you have a habit of doing) and find some sad lonely person that holds this 'attitude' you've flung accusations about no way will you find anything representing a majority of any group, as you have implied, that do not stand by the service men and women of this country.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 07:15 PM
Ok, give you that...that's funny. But maybe you should lay off the stuff for a while.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 07:35 PM
Now that would be suspect for CIA interrogation.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 07:52 PM
quote:
Brent, here is something that you will hear from few liberals on this board- I look forward to someday thanking your son for his service in person, and we'll pick a few while we're at it.

DH


Screw you . Don't be driving down the road thinking this is a liberal/Democrat thing. Ask John McCain how he feels about it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 07:58 PM
quote:
Brent, here is something that you will hear from few liberals on this board- I look forward to someday thanking your son for his service in person, and we'll pick a few while we're at it.

DH


You don't know sh*t. A lot of us here have relatives who have served and we've regularly expressed our appreciation at the sacrifices they and/or their children have made. I didn't see anything in your above post that indicated your thanks in any shape or form....just you using an issue to make a cheap point at the expense of the hated 'liberals.'

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 07:59 PM
quote:
I would be extremely stressed by my sons torture. I can guarantee you, he knows the
responsibility he undertakes, and takes that risk everyday of his service life so you can post your drivel here. You don't think any American captured is'nt tortured in the most horrific ways you cannot comprehend? And you whine about waterboarding or a verbal threat? That is very sad. If we, as a nation, were to do what other countries do to our captured servicemen and women, you could voice some degree of complaint. That is not the case at all, not even close. I still would support 'whatever it takes'...to win.
Just ask one of the survivors or their families of victims, of 911, or the USS Cole, or the UN bombing, or any of the roadside bombs, or the suicide attacks, or the RPG's that kids and women use to kill our servivcemen and women. Your comments denegrate the very servicemen and women that give all to protect you.

men and women.



The Taliban do not torture. They negotiate. They ask for prisoner release swaps, if that happens, they release their prisoners. If not, then they kill them. Even those who chop the heads off anesthetize the doomed man before it happens in an act of compassion. The beheading is traditional, it isn't meant in any other way; although Mullah Omar is trying to stop that practice because he doesn't like it either.

[Edited on 8/25/2009 by gina]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 08:02 PM
quote:
quote:
Tell it to osama.

Will do. He's coming to dinner next week. He gets the best hash...



But he doesn't smoke it, he would probably allow his American guests to have some. he also doesn't drink anymore since he left Lebanon many years ago.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 08:08 PM
quote:
quote:
I would be extremely stressed by my sons torture. I can guarantee you, he knows the
responsibility he undertakes, and takes that risk everyday of his service life so you can post your drivel here. You don't think any American captured is'nt tortured in the most horrific ways you cannot comprehend? And you whine about waterboarding or a verbal threat? That is very sad. If we, as a nation, were to do what other countries do to our captured servicemen and women, you could voice some degree of complaint. That is not the case at all, not even close. I still would support 'whatever it takes'...to win.
Just ask one of the survivors or their families of victims, of 911, or the USS Cole, or the UN bombing, or any of the roadside bombs, or the suicide attacks, or the RPG's that kids and women use to kill our servivcemen and women. Your comments denegrate the very servicemen and women that give all to protect you.

men and women.


I thought this thread was about Obama's investigation on torture... I didn't see anyone comment on torture itself. I seriously doubt anyone here would have a huge moral problem with torturing the sh1t out of a known enemy if it meant saving American lives... IF IT WAS LEGAL.

[Edited on 8/25/2009 by WannabeDerek]


Torture is an inhuman, evil, Satanic inspired event. It is morally illegal, the laws that mankind and nations have devised are sometimes in opposition to God's laws, so nobody should rest when their nation declares torture is legal or dances around the issue by saying, well they are not prisoners of war so the statutes protecting prisoners do not apply, or comes up with a new designation, enemy combatants to circumvent existing laws including the Geneva Conventions. Torture itself is an immoral, inhumane act that should never be undertaken by anyone. What then in a wartime context? I think the Taliban do it right, prisoner swaps. If they capture some of ours, we swap some of theirs. That way nobody has to be tortured. With the advanced telecommunications our armed forces have they should be able to find out all they want to know about these less technically advanced countries using inferior telecommunications to communicate their messages and missions.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 08:43 PM
Yabut. All your sources are biased.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 08:57 PM
OTF, the battles they waged with the Hazaras are well known and that is what you have chronicled. Those battles were under the auspices and direction of Mullah Dadullah, whom Mullah Omar actually fired due to the brutality of what went on up there in the North. I have read accounts of things worse than that, such as skinning them alive. Some of the regional commanders had autonomy to run their areas and provinces as they saw fit. Mullah Omar himself does not support torture or brutality. He studied the Quran for more than 7 years and reached the level of knowledge of an Imam. He is a man extremely devoted to his religion. He is also one of the most misunderstood figures in this war. He does not believe in all the same things as Osama, he has said more than once, his fight, struggle (which is what jihad is a struggle within oneself to develop perfect character) and then live that is only for his homeland, Afghanistan. Osama's vision is for global jihad, which is why Al Qaida adopts the Pakistani fighters under the Al Qaida umbrella. Mullah Omar wants only to have an Islamic state in his homeland and he will fight for that until Jesus comes back and travels to all the countries to see firsthand for himself what is going on. Mullah Omar had a vision in 1994 where he said that God himself called him to devote his life to propagating his religion. People can debate whether this is true, but his valor is not in dispute. He had only 15 students and 30 rifles when he set out to try to save a country he felt was in the worst corruption and moral decay possible. He had nothing but his faith and his grief over finding a naked, dead woman left as an insult in his mosque. That was his motivation for the jihad he began and continues today, that this does not happen again. That is his moral compass.

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 09:12 PM
quote:
Maybe it's time he worried a little more about where our economy is going as to opposed to where Bush has been
Did I miss something here? What does the economy have to do with the topic of this thread?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 09:33 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Maybe it's time he worried a little more about where our economy is going as to opposed to where Bush has been
Did I miss something here? What does the economy have to do with the topic of this thread?


You didn't read the whole post, did you.

Read more, post less....
You mean the hyperlink you provided. Yeah ... I did open that and even read it (sort of against my better judgement when I saw what the site was all about and who it was associated with) but I re-read this and still don't see any reference to CIA torture codes and procedures. Which is the topic of this thread, btw.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 09:54 PM
I take it Mullah Omar didn't win in the recent election.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2009 at 09:58 PM
Negotiate is not in the Taliban vocabulary. Just recently, per the elections in Afganistan....Gina... the Taliban cut off the fingers of anyone who voted...is that 'negotiation? You have got to inform yourself about the realities of what is really going on. These 'people' are sworn to kill you, me, and every other American 'infidel' they can. So, back to the topic, I am for whatever it takes to win this war, and if it takes torture, so be it. It is not what we want to have, or do, but it is fact that we must face.
This is a war in which we must win, at all costs, or risk our freedom and life as we know it.
OTF, that was some post.! damn.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2009 at 07:33 AM
quote:
Brent, here is something that you will hear from few liberals on this board

What a stupid, cowardly thing to say.
quote:
I look forward to someday thanking your son for his service in person, and we'll pick a few while we're at it.

DH

All you had to say was this and you might be surprised at how many people would say "right on". But instead you have to preface it with that idiotic and antagonistic little dig. And you wonder why you have such a hard time playing with others.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2009 at 10:17 AM
quote:
I am sad to see the US government officials and our president , who have sworn to protect this country from ememies abroad and within, now investigate our own services and agencies trying to protect us.


Obama must love this. This shouldn’t detract from the healthcare debate at all.

The thing that I don’t understand is that while Holder wants to investigate some of these agencies that “tortured” terrorists, yet the government is out there with unmanned drones killing terrorists and civilians. When will they investigate the folks who operate the drones for terrorizing and torturing terrorists?

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2009 at 11:41 AM
I honestly don't think some people understand the difference between legal and illegal actions. If someone was starving a legal action would be going to the food bank in place to help people, the illegal action would be going to a store and shoplifting. Just because there are people who see a terrorist around every street corner doesn't mean legally someone can torture them to try to see if they've got information.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2009 at 12:08 PM
Why are they re-opening this case? I doubt they will find any more information than they did before. Kind of makes you wonder why now.

 

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