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Author: Subject: Guns Becoming More Prevalent At Protests

Zen Peach





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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 09:30 AM
quote:
Man carrying assault weapon attends Obama protest

By AMANDA LEE MYERS and TERRY TANG, Associated Press Writers Amanda Lee Myers And Terry Tang, Associated Press Writers – Mon Aug 17, 6:22 pm ET
PHOENIX – About a dozen people carrying guns, including one with a military-style rifle, milled among protesters outside the convention center where President Barack Obama was giving a speech Monday — the latest incident in which protesters have openly displayed firearms near the president.

Gun-rights advocates say they're exercising their constitutional right to bear arms and protest, while those who argue for more gun control say it could be a disaster waiting to happen.

Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested.

The man with the rifle declined to be identified but told The Arizona Republic that he was carrying the assault weapon because he could. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms," he said.

Phoenix police Detective J. Oliver, who monitored the man at the downtown protest, said police also wanted to make sure no one decided to harm him.

"Just by his presence and people seeing the rifle and people knowing the president was in town, it sparked a lot of emotions," Oliver said. "We were keeping peace on both ends."

Last week, during Obama's health care town hall in Portsmouth, N.H., a man carrying a sign reading "It is time to water the tree of liberty" stood outside with a pistol strapped to his leg.

"It's a political statement," he told The Boston Globe. "If you don't use your rights, then you lose your rights."

Police asked the man to move away from school property, but he was not arrested.

Fred Solop, a Northern Arizona University political scientist, said the incidents in New Hampshire and Arizona could signal the beginning of a disturbing trend.

"When you start to bring guns to political rallies, it does layer on another level of concern and significance," Solop said. "It actually becomes quite scary for many people. It creates a chilling effect in the ability of our society to carry on honest communication."

He said he's never heard of someone bringing an assault weapon near a presidential event. "The larger the gun, the more menacing the situation," he said.

Phoenix was Obama's last stop on a four-day tour of western states, including Montana and Colorado.

Authorities in Montana said they received no reports of anyone carrying firearms during Obama's health care town hall near Bozeman on Friday. About 1,000 people both for and against Obama converged at a protest area near the Gallatin Field Airport hangar where the event took place. One person accused of disorderly conduct was detained and released, according to the Gallatin Airport Authority.

Heather Benjamin of Denver's Mesa County sheriff's department, the lead agency during Obama's visit there, said no one was arrested.

Arizona is an "open-carry" state, which means anyone legally allowed to have a firearm can carry it in public as long as it's visible. Only someone carrying a concealed weapon is required to have a permit.

Paul Helmke, president of the Washington, D.C.-based Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said people should not be allowed to bring guns to events where Obama is.

"To me, this is craziness," he said. "When you bring a loaded gun, particularly a loaded assault rifle, to any political event, but particularly to one where the president is appearing, you're just making the situation dangerous for everyone."

He said people who bring guns to presidential events are distracting the Secret Service and law enforcement from protecting the president. "The more guns we see at more events like this, there's more potential for something tragic happening," he said.

Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.

"In both cases, the subject was not entering our site or otherwise attempting to," Donovan said. "They were in a designated public viewing area. The main thing to know is that they would not have been allowed inside with a weapon."

Representatives of the National Rifle Association did not return calls for comment.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_protesters_guns




Now, I'm not anti-gun. And, yes, if a state allows you to carry a gun you certainly do a have a right to carry it. Also, I personally don't think that the government or anyone else is going to take all the guns away. Ever.

But, stuff like this...

quote:
Last week, during Obama's health care town hall in Portsmouth, N.H., a man carrying a sign reading "It is time to water the tree of liberty" stood outside with a pistol strapped to his leg.



...what I wonder is, with that phrase, um, exactly whose blood is he talking about watering the tree with?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 09:49 AM
I found it all pretty disturbing as well Jerry and you know how pro-gun I am. I see absolutely no reason to allow anyone to carry around a gun in close proximity to the President no matter who they are or what the local law allows. Some events and issues should trump some guys 'right' to walk around with an AR15. I certainly cant imagine this being allowed around Bush or Clinton etc.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 09:49 AM
I assume the sign was from Jefferson's quote:

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not…I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government…The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."




Perhaps the person with said sign hates the government and thinks the government is wasting his labors under the guise of protecting him. I would agree, but no need to use the gun at a healthcare forum......and I am a gun owner!!

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 10:23 AM
quote:
Bringing a gun anywhere near the President (and flaunting it like this guy did) is just begging to be shot and killed.


Yet we have these quotes from the story:

Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested.

and...

Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.


 

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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 10:37 AM
quote:
Bringing a gun anywhere near the President (and flaunting it like this guy did) is just begging to be shot and killed.


No, its not. Its perfectly legal what these people, and this guy, did.

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 10:41 AM
quote:
I found it all pretty disturbing as well Jerry and you know how pro-gun I am. I see absolutely no reason to allow anyone to carry around a gun in close proximity to the President no matter who they are or what the local law allows. Some events and issues should trump some guys 'right' to walk around with an AR15. I certainly cant imagine this being allowed around Bush or Clinton etc.


I agree with that, but then if you do it for one person, it then should apply to all.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 10:44 AM
quote:
I'm not questioning the legality of it.


I don't think they are begging to be shot either. They are exercizing their right. They are obviously trying to make a statement, as I doubt these folks would walk into the doctors office with an AR 15 strapped across their shoulder. If they were begging to be shot, they would have aimed it at the President or someone else.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 10:46 AM
quote:
quote:
I found it all pretty disturbing as well Jerry and you know how pro-gun I am. I see absolutely no reason to allow anyone to carry around a gun in close proximity to the President no matter who they are or what the local law allows. Some events and issues should trump some guys 'right' to walk around with an AR15. I certainly cant imagine this being allowed around Bush or Clinton etc.


I agree with that, but then if you do it for one person, it then should apply to all.


Im not sure I understand your point. Nobody should be allowed to run around 'open carry' in the vicinity of the President, regardless of what the state or local laws allow. To me its simply a security issue.

 

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Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 10:46 AM
quote:
I assume the sign was from Jefferson's quote:

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not…I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government…The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."




Perhaps the person with said sign hates the government and thinks the government is wasting his labors under the guise of protecting him. I would agree, but no need to use the gun at a healthcare forum......and I am a gun owner!!


Um, I'm gonna go ahead and speculate that he's referring to the last sentence, and I'd really like to know whose blood that he (and others I've seen elsewhere) are referring to.

I don't think this is about guns and gun control. At all.

 

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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 10:47 AM
quote:
Nobody should be allowed to run around 'open carry' in the vicinity of the President, regardless of what the state or local laws allow. To me its simply a security issue.


Yet to the Secret Service it didn't seem to matter....hmmm, I'm going with the Secret Service on this one.

 

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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 10:48 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I found it all pretty disturbing as well Jerry and you know how pro-gun I am. I see absolutely no reason to allow anyone to carry around a gun in close proximity to the President no matter who they are or what the local law allows. Some events and issues should trump some guys 'right' to walk around with an AR15. I certainly cant imagine this being allowed around Bush or Clinton etc.


I agree with that, but then if you do it for one person, it then should apply to all.


Im not sure I understand your point. Nobody should be allowed to run around 'open carry' in the vicinity of the President, regardless of what the state or local laws allow. To me its simply a security issue.



http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/news/news_wthi_greenecounty_baby_shot_20090816211 9

14-month-old shot and
killed
Updated: Monday, 17 Aug 2009, 3:36 PM EDT
Published : Sunday, 16 Aug 2009, 9:27 PM EDT

News Staff
GREENE COUNTY, Ind. (WTHI) - Officials said that the child shot and killed Sunday night in Greene County was 14-month-old Travis Bohannon.

The incident happened just after 8 p.m. Sunday in Midland, Ind., between Linton and Jasonville.

The boy's father, Ronald Bohannon, had taken the child on a walk in a stroller at the time of the shooting.

He told police he heard gunshots, looked down and saw his son had been hit by a stray bullet.

Terre Haute Police have confirmed they are searching the area for a possible suspect linked to the shooting.

The shooting remains under investigation.

 

____________________
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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9%3A6-7&version=NKJV


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 11:13 AM
quote:
quote:
Nobody should be allowed to run around 'open carry' in the vicinity of the President, regardless of what the state or local laws allow. To me its simply a security issue.


Yet to the Secret Service it didn't seem to matter....hmmm, I'm going with the Secret Service on this one.


If you honestly believe that it 'didnt matter' then I have a bridge to sell you. I have no doubt in my mind, they watched him like a hawk.

 

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Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 11:15 AM


quote:
I don't think this is about guns and gun control. At all.


Maybe its about the following quote. ;-)

Seriously, I think this debate is just drawing people with gripes from all over. I think people at this point are generally disgruntled with politicians, no matter if they are right or left, black or white, male or female, or whatever. They want to show it in an extreme way.

But when a long train of abuses and
usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to
reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their
duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their
future security.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 11:15 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I found it all pretty disturbing as well Jerry and you know how pro-gun I am. I see absolutely no reason to allow anyone to carry around a gun in close proximity to the President no matter who they are or what the local law allows. Some events and issues should trump some guys 'right' to walk around with an AR15. I certainly cant imagine this being allowed around Bush or Clinton etc.


I agree with that, but then if you do it for one person, it then should apply to all.


Im not sure I understand your point. Nobody should be allowed to run around 'open carry' in the vicinity of the President, regardless of what the state or local laws allow. To me its simply a security issue.



http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/news/news_wthi_greenecounty_baby_shot_20090816211 9

14-month-old shot and
killed
Updated: Monday, 17 Aug 2009, 3:36 PM EDT
Published : Sunday, 16 Aug 2009, 9:27 PM EDT

News Staff
GREENE COUNTY, Ind. (WTHI) - Officials said that the child shot and killed Sunday night in Greene County was 14-month-old Travis Bohannon.

The incident happened just after 8 p.m. Sunday in Midland, Ind., between Linton and Jasonville.

The boy's father, Ronald Bohannon, had taken the child on a walk in a stroller at the time of the shooting.

He told police he heard gunshots, looked down and saw his son had been hit by a stray bullet.

Terre Haute Police have confirmed they are searching the area for a possible suspect linked to the shooting.

The shooting remains under investigation.




So your point is what? That accidental shootings happen? So do car accidents, drownings and slips and falls. My point is that on the list of things that people die from for instance, drownings are a lot higher than shootings.

 

____________________
Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 11:17 AM
quote:
Seriously, I think this debate is just drawing people with gripes from all over. I think people at this point are generally disgruntled with politicians, no matter if they are right or left, black or white, male or female, or whatever.


I respectfully disagree.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 11:18 AM
quote:
quote:
I'm not questioning the legality of it.


I don't think they are begging to be shot either. They are exercizing their right. They are obviously trying to make a statement, as I doubt these folks would walk into the doctors office with an AR 15 strapped across their shoulder. If they were begging to be shot, they would have aimed it at the President or someone else.


I am not anti-gun rights but the idea that someone can bring a weapon into the vicinity of the president is nuts.

 

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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 11:42 AM
quote:
quote:
Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.


This I just don't understand. How can the Secret Service not be preoccupied with keeping an eye on all the weapons in the vicinity of the President?


That is because you are assuming they are bad people or have bad intentions maybe they are just doing as the article says exercising their right to keep and bear arms no big deal it seems except to you.. ?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 11:49 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm not questioning the legality of it.


I don't think they are begging to be shot either. They are exercizing their right. They are obviously trying to make a statement, as I doubt these folks would walk into the doctors office with an AR 15 strapped across their shoulder. If they were begging to be shot, they would have aimed it at the President or someone else.


It's funny how when one takes the First Amendment, and mushes it up into a ball with the Second Amendment, each one is cheapened in the process. Carrying an assault rifle in the open, in public, is not a right granted (explicitly or implicitly) by the Second Amendment, nor is it any sort of statement of free speech or expression.

If it's legal in your state, so be it, I can't argue with that except to say that your state is a place I don't want to visit. I also don't think these clowns pose a risk to the President because any time the POTUS is within miles of them, you can bet there will be Secret Service all over these guys, just in case one of them gets the urge to act.


What a dumb post where is it stated anywhere in the 1st or second ammendment what kind you can and can not carry? and it astounds me you are telling the people on this board what those peoples intentions were... and you know what we probably don't want you to visit us either.... You need to be a bit more open minded i may not agree with your point of view but at least i can understand it.. you do not seem to even want to see anyone elses side.

 

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Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian." -Henry Ford

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 11:52 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I found it all pretty disturbing as well Jerry and you know how pro-gun I am. I see absolutely no reason to allow anyone to carry around a gun in close proximity to the President no matter who they are or what the local law allows. Some events and issues should trump some guys 'right' to walk around with an AR15. I certainly cant imagine this being allowed around Bush or Clinton etc.


I agree with that, but then if you do it for one person, it then should apply to all.


Im not sure I understand your point. Nobody should be allowed to run around 'open carry' in the vicinity of the President, regardless of what the state or local laws allow. To me its simply a security issue.



http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/news/news_wthi_greenecounty_baby_shot_20090816211 9

14-month-old shot and
killed
Updated: Monday, 17 Aug 2009, 3:36 PM EDT
Published : Sunday, 16 Aug 2009, 9:27 PM EDT

News Staff
GREENE COUNTY, Ind. (WTHI) - Officials said that the child shot and killed Sunday night in Greene County was 14-month-old Travis Bohannon.

The incident happened just after 8 p.m. Sunday in Midland, Ind., between Linton and Jasonville.

The boy's father, Ronald Bohannon, had taken the child on a walk in a stroller at the time of the shooting.

He told police he heard gunshots, looked down and saw his son had been hit by a stray bullet.

Terre Haute Police have confirmed they are searching the area for a possible suspect linked to the shooting.

The shooting remains under investigation.




So your point is what? That accidental shootings happen? So do car accidents, drownings and slips and falls. My point is that on the list of things that people die from for instance, drownings are a lot higher than shootings.


A life is a life ,no matter who.

 

____________________
Isaiah 9:6-7
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9%3A6-7&version=NKJV


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 12:10 PM
quote:
quote:
Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.


This I just don't understand. How can the Secret Service not be preoccupied with keeping an eye on all the weapons in the vicinity of the President?


Wild guess here, so bear with me...The Secret Service did have their eye on this guy with some agents in the crowd. Ed Donovan was just spewing the company line, they knew exactly what was going on.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 12:10 PM
Seems pretty ridiculous. Its his right to be ridiculous. Its also just asking for trouble, an accicdent, an argument, a shot waiting to happen somewhere by somebody.
Then guess what ?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 12:11 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.


This I just don't understand. How can the Secret Service not be preoccupied with keeping an eye on all the weapons in the vicinity of the President?


Wild guess here, so bear with me...The Secret Service did have their eye on this guy with some agents in the crowd. Ed Donovan was just spewing the company line, they knew exactly what was going on.


That makes sense.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 12:15 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm not questioning the legality of it.


I don't think they are begging to be shot either. They are exercizing their right. They are obviously trying to make a statement, as I doubt these folks would walk into the doctors office with an AR 15 strapped across their shoulder. If they were begging to be shot, they would have aimed it at the President or someone else.


It's funny how when one takes the First Amendment, and mushes it up into a ball with the Second Amendment, each one is cheapened in the process. Carrying an assault rifle in the open, in public, is not a right granted (explicitly or implicitly) by the Second Amendment, nor is it any sort of statement of free speech or expression.


It's not to you Marc, you're putting your values and morales and point of view in the equation. What you're saying is that you don't think its a statement of free speech or expression otherwise you're denying their right to fee speech and/or expression.

 

____________________


R.I.P. Hugh Duty


 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 12:21 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.


This I just don't understand. How can the Secret Service not be preoccupied with keeping an eye on all the weapons in the vicinity of the President?


That is because you are assuming they are bad people or have bad intentions maybe they are just doing as the article says exercising their right to keep and bear arms no big deal it seems except to you.. ?


Right. The Secret Service should assume a guy with a gun near the President has good intentions. Do you actually believe that?


I believe it as much as you believe they have bad intentions i guess your glass is always half empty and mine is always half full...

 

____________________
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the
Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian." -Henry Ford

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/18/2009 at 12:30 PM
Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, Robert Hinkley, John Wilkes Booth etc. all approve of carrying guns in the vicinity of the President.

 

____________________
Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 
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