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Sublime Peach





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  posted on 5/19/2009 at 02:15 PM


[Edited on 8/20/2009 by jerryphilbob]

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/19/2009 at 02:47 PM
Pretty interesting speech about irresponsible borrowing and spending and how it will negatively effect our future. He's probably trying to appear as an innocent bystander in all of this, but actually it's refreshing to see a President throw himself under the bus like this.... I'm impressed

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/21/2009 at 02:53 AM
Worries Rise on the Size of U.S. Debt
GRAHAM BOWLEY and JACK HEALY
Published: May 3, 2009

The nation’s debt clock is ticking faster than ever — and Wall Street is getting worried.

The Rising Government Debt May Benefit Some Investors As the Obama administration racks up an unprecedented spending bill for bank bailouts, Detroit rescues, health care overhauls and stimulus plans, the bond market is starting to push up the cost of trillions of dollars in borrowing for the government.

Last week, the yield on 10-year Treasury notes rose to its highest level since November, briefly touching 3.17 percent, a sign that investors are demanding larger returns on the masses of United States debt being issued to finance an economic recovery.

While that is still low by historical standards — it averaged about 5.7 percent in the late 1990s, as deficits turned to surpluses under President Bill Clinton — investors are starting to wonder whether the United States is headed for a new era of rising market interest rates as the government borrows, borrows and borrows some more.

Already, in the first six months of this fiscal year, the federal deficit is running at $956.8 billion, or nearly one seventh of gross domestic product — levels not seen since World War II, according to Wrightson ICAP, a research firm.

Debt held by the public is projected by the Congressional Budget Office to rise from 41 percent of gross domestic product in 2008 to 51 percent in 2009 and to a peak of around 54 percent in 2011 before declining again in the following years. For all of 2009, the administration probably needs to borrow about $2 trillion.

The rising tab has prompted warnings from the Treasury that the Congressionally mandated debt ceiling of $12.1 trillion will most likely be breached in the second half of this year.

Last week, the Treasury Borrowing Advisory Committee, a group of industry officials that advises the Treasury on its financing needs, warned about the consequences of higher deficits at a time when tax revenues were “collapsing” by 14 percent in the first half of the fiscal year.

“Given the outlook for the economy, the cost of restoring a smoothly functioning financial system and the pending entitlement obligations to retiring baby boomers,” a report from the committee said, “the fiscal outlook is one of rapidly increasing debt in the years ahead.”

While the real long-term interest rate will not rise immediately, the committee concluded, “such a fiscal path could force real rates notably higher at some point in the future.”

In some ways, ballooning deficits should not matter. Deficits are a useful way for governments to use public spending to stimulate the economy when private demand is weak. This works as long as a country closes its deficit and pays back its borrowings after its economy starts to recover.

The trouble is that government borrowing risks crowding out private investment, driving up interest rates and potentially slowing a recovery still trying to take hold. That is why the Federal Reserve announced an extraordinary policy this year to buy back existing long-term debt — $300 billion over six months — to drive down yields. The strategy worked for a while, but now the impact of that decision appears to be wearing off as long-term interest rates tick up again.

Then there is the concern that the interest the government must pay on its debt obligations may become unsustainable or weigh on future generations. The Congressional Budget Office expects interest payments to more than quadruple in the next decade as Washington borrows and spends, to $806 billion by 2019 from $172 billion next year.

“You’re just paying more and more interest and having to borrow more and more money to pay the interest,” said Charles S. Konigsberg, chief budget counsel for the Concord Coalition, which advocates lower deficits. “It diverts a tremendous amount of resources, of taxpayer dollars.”

Of course, no one is suggesting the United States will have problems paying the interest on its debt. On Wednesday, even as it announced its huge financing needs for the latest quarter, the Treasury said financial markets could accommodate the flood of new bonds. “We feel confident that we can address these large borrowing needs,” said Karthik Ramanathan, the Treasury’s acting assistant secretary for financial markets.

One worry, however, is that there are fewer eager lenders to buy all that American debt. Most of the world is in recession, and other nations have rising borrowing needs as well. As other nations’ surpluses turn to deficits, America will face competition in global financial markets for its borrowing needs. For the moment, the United States is actually benefiting from a flight to quality into Treasuries brought on by the global financial crisis, which helped reduce rates to record lows this winter. But the influx will not continue forever.

China has lent immense sums to the United States — about two-thirds of its central bank’s $1.95 trillion in foreign reserves is believed to be in United States securities — but it has begun to voice concerns about America’s financial health.

To calm nerves and fill the deficit hole, the government is getting creative. The Treasury is ramping up its auction calendar, holding more frequent sales of government debt and selling the debt in expanded amounts. It is now holding sales of its 30-year bond each month, up from four times annually.

It is also resuscitating previously discontinued bonds, such as the seven-year note and the three-year note, to try to mop up any available money all along the yield curve. There is even talk of issuing billions of dollars of a new 50-year bond, though the idea has not won official approval.

On a second front, the Treasury and the Federal Reserve are trying to bolster the mechanics of the market — to make sure every auction goes smoothly. With such enormous sums involved, every extra basis point on the interest rate the government pays could mean extra billions of dollars for the taxpayer. Earlier this year, when demand was hesitant at a Treasury auction and when a British bond auction went poorly, investors grew nervous that the government might struggle to sell its mountain of debt.

To avoid such an outcome and to keep borrowing costs low, the government is trying to expand the group of firms that bid at Treasury auctions. After the demise of such names as Lehman Brothers, the number of these firms, called primary dealers, has shrunk to 16, the smallest since this elite club was formed decades ago. Now the government is in discussions with smaller firms like Nomura and MF Global to persuade them to join.


 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/23/2009 at 09:42 AM
Gold


Silver


Swiss Franc


Canadian


US Dollar vs. Crude


[Edited on 5/23/2009 by jerryphilbob]

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 12:18 AM
Well he's back with the end of the world scenario. The sky is falling eeryone! Be afraid, be very afraid!
So.one more I'll ask the Ambassador tp Beloze if he will fill us in on the barter exchange rates in the coming apoalypse, Oh, wait a minute, we'll be on the franc. How will I buy my freedom fries with French money?
In reality, I'm not holding my breath on exchange rates from JPB, cause he don't do answers, at least until he hears from folks like Dick Morris, and other pathological liars.
But please keep posting away, son, cause I horse laugh at the nonsensical drivel that you post here.
Anyone else read JPB's posts strictly for the guffaw factor? You're much funnier than Dennis Miller. Keep 'em coming.

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 09:08 AM
Gerald Celente on the end of capitalism and the shift to fascism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCP7FaYejYg&NR=1

Obama motors
Obama Insurance
Obama Real Estate
Obama Bank and Trust

Every bailout is a purchase of that industry. The government is going to own everything before it is all said and done and they are doing it with paper that they are printing in the back room, Brilliant!

What's next? Obama airways? Obama railways? There will be more, they aren't done yet.

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 09:16 AM
quote:
Well he's back with the end of the world scenario.


It's not the end of the world? Just capitalism and the dollar as the world currency? Who knows what the exchange rate will be on gold and silver, but I do know that the dollar is going to be used for toilet paper. You can ignore the warning signs, it is no skin off my back, it is your ass on the line, not mine. Everything is trending towards the end of the dollar and the next shoe to drop could be the bond market. This house of cards is going to crash and when it does, so will the dollar. Americans are arrogant to think it can't happen to them and there are a bunch of sheep that are going to be trampled in this mess. Keep drinking the kool-aid and let me know how that works out for you. Good luck and get your hedge. Buy gold, silver, canadian dollars, swiss francs, foreign stocks, hard goods, anything but the almighty dollar, it is finished.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 09:34 AM
If there was never one bailout penny spent, and it all collapsed anyway, would you have felt better?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 09:41 AM
quote:
If there was never one bailout penny spent, and it all collapsed anyway, would you have felt better?


1.) Do you do nothing and guarantee a melt down and everyone loses everything and we all just start from scratch again. OR

2.) At least try something.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 12:26 PM
If by doing nothing, you mean AIG and all of these tarp companies filing for bankruptcy like all other American companies would have to do, then yes, they should have filed for bankruptcy like everyone else would have to do. They would have sold off the good assets of their businesses and the rest would have gone away. They used fear (fascism) to make you believe that these bailouts had to happen and happen now. If not, the world was going to end, remember. They didn't even give the legislators a chance to read what they were signing. The free enterprise and capiltalist way should have been to have the markets works themselves out. Now they have taken over everything in the guise of too big to fail. Even some companies will still have to file for bankruptcy that took money from the govt. There is nothing American about the way they are telling companies who to fire and how much they can get paid. This is govt is in control of big business and they are destroying our freedoms and our way of life. America as we knew it is over. I will always hope for the best, but I am also going to be prepared for the worst. Watch out, the bond market is next. The dollar is the biggest ponzi scheme going right now and that house of cards will fall to. Get your hedge against the dollar and don't wait too long. It is going to happen faster than most think. Buy silver, gold, foreign currency, foreign stocks, and hard goods. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. You can't eat hope.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 12:41 PM
quote:
quote:
If there was never one bailout penny spent, and it all collapsed anyway, would you have felt better?


1.) Do you do nothing and guarantee a melt down and everyone loses everything and we all just start from scratch again. OR

2.) At least try something.
Why is "doing nothing" applied to responsible economic policy in times of economic duress? In your family, if you lost your job and had to exist with less spending, wouldn't that be the responsible thing to do? Under those circumstances, would you call that "doing nothing"?

The language is being contorted here to make what are responsible political decisions sound like they are not. Truth is, you have to be a Keynesian believer to accept that spending and racking up debt during bad times is a correct political action. Nixon may have famously said "we're all Keynesians now" when our currency was separated from a gold connection during his administration. But in fact, many are not believers in that path, and have many historic examples to support their case. Even if we were, I imagine Keynes himself would be appalled at the levels of debt we're establishing.

For a group who famously used expressions in the past like "we must do this for our children", they're setting in place a future where those kids are going to be truely limited in their personal choices because of a crushing debt burden. "Doing nothing" as was stated, in fact cutting back, would have been the responsible thing to do. Despite all his blather about hard choices and fiscal responsibility, Obama refuses to make any for himself. We're all going to pay for it eventually.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 01:35 PM
jerryphilbob, do you work for FOX news?

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 03:08 PM
I'm only a foreigner but,
Isn't government ownership at the worst socialism rather than fascism?
Is fiscal responsibility worth mentioning in a situation where under the last umpteen administrations there has been a stratospheric deficit?

FWIW the IMF has apparently been fairly complimentary about the similar Keynesian style policies here under Gordon Brown.
[yeah OK I'll admit S&P have said our rating may slip below AAA soon but, swings and roundabouts]...

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 04:36 PM
quote:
I'm only a foreigner but,
Isn't government ownership at the worst socialism rather than fascism?
Is fiscal responsibility worth mentioning in a situation where under the last umpteen administrations there has been a stratospheric deficit?

FWIW the IMF has apparently been fairly complimentary about the similar Keynesian style policies here under Gordon Brown.
[yeah OK I'll admit S&P have said our rating may slip below AAA soon but, swings and roundabouts]...
I don't think the term "fascism" has a universally accepted defination. But it's generally a merger of gov't and corporate interests, controlling economic policy by elitist decree. Other things could obviously be tacked on to that. But if that doesn't describe the general direction of recent actions, I don't know what does. We're not there yet, but we're moving in that general direction.

Fiscal responsibility is always worth mentioning. Obama himself talked about the need for exactly that. Of course, given that most of his words are in 180° opposition to his actions, we get massive new spending and unimaginable future debt. Just because the past administration ran up ridiculous debts is no basis for making it ridiculous x 4. Like most Moms taught; two wrongs don't make a right.

As to the IMF and Keynesian policies; well of course they favor it! They're bankers, and as such love government's printing of valueless currency and spending like fools. How else do they end up with huge profits and eventual control? Inflation via control of the currency is their most favored tool. As one of the Rothchilds famously said: "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." Who do you think runs the IMF, the Federal Reserve, and other central banks?

 

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so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 05:42 PM
We don't need a dictator to have some measures look mighty close to the same thing;

-- Drum up fear of chaos and collapse, ram-rodding through almost a trillion in spending that no one reads before voting on.

-- Tell the CEO of one of the largest corporations in the world that he's out.

-- Change the manufacturing standards for automobiles, not by a normal legislative process, but by regulatory decree.

-- Publicly ridicule and cower Chrysler's secured debt holders for not accepting less than offered to the UAW and Fiat, against all known precedents of bankruptcy law.


Like I said; we're not there yet, but we're heading in that direction.

 

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so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 06:12 PM
We were much closer to "Facism" with the last administration. did you make it past the 7th grade JPb?.

[Edited on 5/25/2009 by pops42]

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 06:46 PM
quote:
quote:
We don't need a dictator to have some measures look mighty close to the same thing;

-- Drum up fear of chaos and collapse, ram-rodding through almost a trillion in spending that no one reads before voting on.

-- Tell the CEO of one of the largest corporations in the world that he's out.

-- Change the manufacturing standards for automobiles, not by a normal legislative process, but by regulatory decree.

-- Publicly ridicule and cower Chrysler's secured debt holders for not accepting less than offered to the UAW and Fiat, against all known precedents of bankruptcy law.


Like I said; we're not there yet, but we're heading in that direction.




How many Executive Orders have we seen with Obama? How many from 2001-2009? Like Pops42 said, we were closer to fascism under Bush than we will ever be under Obama.
Which should make the case that it doesn't matter which party is in control, both are dangerous to the future freedoms our republic has enjoyed in the past. Growth of a powerful central gov't has always been antithetical to personal liberties. Something we should all be concernd about.

 

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uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 07:09 PM
I guess we could argue all day about what constitutes fascism. But I generally agree that we're much further from that end than closer - if that makes sense. If you go back and look at the vast grab for power that FDR initiated at the beginning of his first term, Obama is a piker by comparison.

Otie; your comment about Executive Orders got me looking - here's what I found:

-- Total orders signed by Bush during eight years = 284

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/wbush.html


-- Total orders signed by Obama to date (124 days) = 20

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2009-obama.html


Doing the math, Bush's rate is one order signed every 10.3 days. Obama's so far is one every 6.2 days. Not enough time for a completely fair comparison, but so far BO is well in the lead.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 10:39 PM
quote:
Even the great one has stated that we can't sustain these levels of debt. The dollar is slipping


Wayne Gretzky is commenting on the status of the US financial mess??? God help us, his grandparents were commies.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/24/2009 at 10:43 PM
quote:
quote:
Even the great one has stated that we can't sustain these levels of debt. The dollar is slipping


Wayne Gretzky is commenting on the status of the US financial mess??? God help us, his grandparents were commies.


LMAO! Only in Canada, you say. Pity.

We are a twisted bunch.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2009 at 09:18 AM
quote:
quote:
Even the great one has stated that we can't sustain these levels of debt. The dollar is slipping


Wayne Gretzky is commenting on the status of the US financial mess??? God help us, his grandparents were commies.


He might be good at foreign policy, would you argue with a hockey player with a stick?

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2009 at 09:23 AM
quote:
Well he's back with the end of the world scenario. The sky is falling eeryone! Be afraid, be very afraid!
So.one more I'll ask the Ambassador tp Beloze if he will fill us in on the barter exchange rates in the coming apoalypse, Oh, wait a minute, we'll be on the franc. How will I buy my freedom fries with French money?
In reality, I'm not holding my breath on exchange rates from JPB, cause he don't do answers, at least until he hears from folks like Dick Morris, and other pathological liars.
But please keep posting away, son, cause I horse laugh at the nonsensical drivel that you post here.
Anyone else read JPB's posts strictly for the guffaw factor? You're much funnier than Dennis Miller. Keep 'em coming.


Do you know why the price of gas at the pump is going up again? Other countries used to convert their money to US Dollars and then purchase oil for their needs. They are no longer converting their money to US dollars. They are converting their money to Euros and other currencies and trading/buying in that. Our buying power is reduced, (less countries exchanging their currency for US dollars) we don't have enough gold reserves to back up all the paper that is being printed, other countries have declining confidence in our monetary system and you don't think there is a problem?

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2009 at 09:48 AM
Gina, I;km get to the point, please show me wgere I said that there isn't a problem. Thhepoint is that JPB comes here tio tell us that the sky is falling, that we'll fall to anarchy, we're idiots who drink Kool Aid, ad nauseum. Just a regurgitator of Fox Pablum.
I don't know if the dollar will fail, but I doubt it. However, if that should come to pass, all his blithering about hoarding gold and silver is, at best, utter nonsense. Why? Because a better investment will be lead and gunpowder. My lead will trump your gold every time. Stock up, build a bunker, amd the first time you go to barter for something will also be the last time that you barter for something. There will always be someone bigger, meaner, but most importantly, someone with more firepower. This is what I find so laughable about survivalist scenarios, the world as we know it has ended, but I'll go down to the store ansd trade some Franccs for some food. Just too funny. So, keep'em coming, please.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2009 at 09:51 AM
quote:
jerryphilbob, do you work for FOX news?
I would guess this would be a 'Yes' ... in the graphs and charts division.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2009 at 11:44 AM
quote:
Gina, I am get to the point, please show me where I said that there isn't a problem. The point is that JPB comes here to tell us that the sky is falling, that we'll fall to anarchy, we're idiots who drink Kool Aid, ad nauseum. Just a regurgitator of Fox Pablum.

I don't know if the dollar will fail, but I doubt it. However, if that should come to pass, all his blithering about hoarding gold and silver is, at best, utter nonsense. Why? Because a better investment will be lead and gunpowder. My lead will trump your gold every time. Stock up, build a bunker, amd the first time you go to barter for something will also be the last time that you barter for something. There will always be someone bigger, meaner, but most importantly, someone with more firepower. This is what I find so laughable about survivalist scenarios, the world as we know it has ended, but I'll go down to the store and trade some Francs for some food. Just too funny. So, keep'em coming, please. (I tried to clean up this drivel, I think he was drunk?)


First off, when the dollar crashes, they will issue a new currency. They just won't be accepting your dollars for exchange. When the German currency fell, it took two months to issue the new currency. They are still there and they did not have anarchy, they did have Hitler rise to power. If you want to preserve your wealth, get out of the dollar. plain and simple. You are a fool to think the banks won't recognize foreign currency and gold and silver as still having real value. Your bullets will only get you killed. You can't eat bullets or hope. I am not saying that you shouldn't have some protection, but food would be a better commodity to have than bullets. Even cigarettes and booze will get you farther than your bullets. Please name me one currency in the history of man that has been printed ad nauseum that hasn't crashed? Just one? That is becuase you can't.

The dollar is worthless and the rest of the world is starting to reject the dollar. When the rest of the world starts dumping our dollars, inflation is going to skyrocket. History is repeating itself and the end of the dollar, not civilization, is near. The sheep will be trampled and the ones that are prepared will be sitting pretty. Millionaires are going to be broke overnight. Anytime there is a collapse, some fall and others rise. Hey, it's not so bad, you can always use your dollars to wipe your ass. How arrogant to think we can print and print and print and that it would not affect the status of our fiat currency (dollars are not money, they are a currency backed by nothing, gold and silver are considedered money world wide). At the current rate it takes $18 American dollars to equal one silver dollar. When we were on the gold standard, you could go to the bank and exchange a one dollar bill for a silver dollar. Try that today and let me know how that works out for you. By the way, the new world currency will be backed by gold. That is why the IMF sold off a bunch of it to China in exchange for American dollars that the IMF is going to use to help those in Africa. Guess who runs the IMF? The Federal Reserve.

China is the new super power and we are going to be reduced to playing a much smaller role in the world economy. Americans are so arrogant to think that world economy will collapse without us, in fact, the rest of the world will simply have more and we will have less. We produce nothing that they want let alone need. Our country is a shell of its former self and we can no longer sustain the debt that we are accumulating.

The bond bubble and the bailout bubble will be the next shoes to drop.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[Edited on 5/25/2009 by jerryphilbob]

 
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