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Author: Subject: ABB Beacon Tone Blasted

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 5/10/2009 at 07:13 PM
I just saw a copy of a publication called "The ToneQuest Report". More of a newsletter than a magazine (there's no advertising), these guys focus soley on guitar tone. They're all about great tone, and definately gravitate to vintage guitars and amps - or new equipment that seeks that goal.

Anyway, a recent edition kicked off with an article bemoaning the lack of good tone they experienced attending one of the last ABB Beacon shows. Their disappointment is obvious, and these are not rookies on the subject.

Below are their comments. I can't judge since I wasn't there, but some of you who were might be interested and want to respond...

quote:
Beacon Blues

"A great record is easy to make. I ain't impressed by great records - but a great performance isn't so easy"

-Duane Allman


The sound of an amplified electric guitar has existed now for over 70 years, shaped and steadily refined by the earnest and serious men who design such things, and by the players that play them. We've come a long way since the first crude amplifiers and guitar pickups were built, yet most of us would readily agree that well-designed, traditional tube amplifiers can produce sounds that remain superior in their pleasing musicality than any of the more advanced attempts to propel the electric guitar into the future with transistors or modeling chips.

In fact, and as you well know, we have more state-of-the-art options available to us today to hone our tone than ever, with thousands of high-quality guitars, pickups, amps, speakers and effects at nearly every price point. Sure, the sheer number of choices has complicated our lives to some extent, but let's face it - thoughtful players, even those hobbled by a modest budget - really have no excuse for putting up with bad tone. In 2009, it just isn't necessary.

So perhaps you too can imagine our surprise when we traveled to the historic Beacon Theatre in New York for a night with the Allman Brothers Band featuring Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes filling in for Duane and Dickey. Yes, the crowd was predictably up for this, the next to last night of a two week run, especially given an appearance by Eric Clapton in celebration of the band's 40th anniversary. Accompanied by El Riverhorse, we found our excellent seats (with sincere thanks to Lone Wolf) and the Bass Ale station, then hung out people watching until the lights finally dimmed, signaling the start of the show. The band kicked it off and within a minute or two we were trading frowns as the Beacon crowd lustily cheered. No exchange of words was necessary - we were both frowning because the guitars sounded curiously lame - not just a little lame, or not quite as good as they could have ... No, they sounded absolutely lame - with thin, trebly and way too distorted weenie tones completely void of the robust mids, sweet presence, bold musical clarity and vocal character that you would expect a crew like this to have dialed in - especially alter having played the same venue for over two weeks straight, and nearly 200 times since 1989. Or was that the problem? We agreed on the way back downtown in the cab that Duane would never have been down with such 'tribute band' tone, and as for Dickey, if you're an Allman Brothers fan and you haven't seen Dickey Betts and Great Southern, go. We've seen them no less than three times in as many years, most recently at Copper Mountain, and all we can say is Dickey & Co. deliver the goods all day in every way with the passion, power, emotion and we that originally put the Allman Brothers Band on the map. And for that, Dickey gets the cover of this edition, with respect.

The bewildering irony of this tale is that Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes are both uncommonly gifted and experienced guitarists. Trucks' latest CD release is a solid and imaginative piece of work that fully reveals his considerable talent, and during the last Clapton arena tour with Derek and Doyle III, his SG played through blackface Super Reverb amps brilliantly shone above the rest the entire night. As for Warren Haynes, just cue up any of the Tom Dowd-produced Allman Brothers recordings from the early '90s or some Government Mule and crank 'em. But on this night, such inspiring tones were nowhere to be found until Clapton happily strode onto the stage three quarters through the night. As much as we have whined about EC putting down the Strat (Cream reunion), he provided a much-needed and welcome boost through the last seven songs, and hearing him play on classics like "Dreams" was a rare treat. Still, we left the Beacon that night dumbfounded by how two guitarists whom we knew to be so much better could slip into the painfully clichéd tone too often typified by humbucking pickups, high-gain amps and mediocre production - a dismal substitute for the melodic guitar tones first created by Duane and Dickey.

We've no axe to grind here, nor did we walk into the Beacon Theatre with the mindset of music critics poised to pounce. The point is, and it is a significant point indeed… there is an unseen art to creating live sound with stellar results, and it seems to us that the responsibility for rekindling one of the greatest bands in history deserves to be undertaken with care and respect. The original Allman Brothers Band excelled as a potent ensemble whose magnificent sound was expressed so uniquely through the eloquently vocal tone of Duane and Dickey's guitars, which were never obscured or compromised behind a gritty veil of distortion. The 'modem' version of the band we experienced could be compared to listening to an MP3 or an iPod through ear buds versus an LP played on tube hi-fi. Did the audience care? Of course not, but let's not kid ourselves... in 2009 'concerts' have devolved into grossly over-hyped and expensive events where only America's uber-boomer class call afford the price of admission. Most of these people don't give a **** about the music... its all about the party ... the event... and bragging rights the morning after. On June 26, 1971 the Allman Brothers took the stage at the Fillmore East at 2:30 a.m. and walked off well past sunrise as the stunned audience reverently passed through the doors on Second Avenue in silence, too spent to raise their hands in applause. As Duane said, "Goddamn! It's like leaving church." No, we will never experience any of this again the Allman Brothers closing the Fillmore… Jimi Hendrix and Band of Gypsies on New Year’s Eve, 1970 ... the Stones playing the Fox Theater in Atlanta on their 'small tour'… Well, we've still got Jeff Beck, God bless'im. But if you're bold enough to cash checks on such memories, do the work. 'Contemporary' interpretations of classic rock do not absolve the artists from playing with passion, soul, emotion and tone.

 

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  posted on 5/10/2009 at 07:21 PM
See : Warren's overuse of the "Woman" tone. Flat, dead and has no life to it at all.
 

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  posted on 5/10/2009 at 07:48 PM
I think warren's tone can get a little too distorted for my tastes... but it's really not about my taste in tone it's about his. If he likes his tone that's good enough for me. Duane's tone was always way overdriven running two 50's instead of 100's like dickey. Let's face it, neither warren or derek is going to have tone like Duane and dickey because, they aren't Duane and Dickey. They have their own preferences to how they want to sound. And in order to play their best, they need their own sound, not the sound of someone else.

[Edited on 5/11/2009 by GuitarPlaynTaylor]

 

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  posted on 5/10/2009 at 08:23 PM
quote:
I think warren's tone can get a little too distorted for my tastes... but it's really not about my taste in tone it's about his. If he likes his tone that's good enough for me. Duane's tone was always way overdriven running two 50's instead of 100's like dickey. Let's face it, neither warren or derek is going to have tone like Duane and dickey because, they aren't Duane and Dickey. They have their own preferences to how they want to sound. And in order to play their best, they need their own sound, not the sound of someone else.

[Edited on 5/11/2009 by GuitarPlaynTaylor]


I agree, as much as I love Warren, his tone can be way too fat for my tastes at times. When he's playing lead, I love it, but when he plays chords, it's crackles and loses a lot of fidelity. But that's his style, he's a crunchy loud player and as you say, it's the way he likes it.

And while I find a lot of sound does get lost in the walls of the Beacon theater, Derek and Warren's tones are going to be a lot different from Duane and Dickey. I'm glad he's a fan, but I think he's comparing apples to oranges and remembering with rose-tinted glasses. He refers to them as a 'tribute band', but these are two guitar players with their own voice. If they just recreated the tone of Dickey and Duane then they would truly be a tribute band, and who wants to see that?

 

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  posted on 5/10/2009 at 09:06 PM
quote:
quote:
I think warren's tone can get a little too distorted for my tastes... but it's really not about my taste in tone it's about his. If he likes his tone that's good enough for me. Duane's tone was always way overdriven running two 50's instead of 100's like dickey. Let's face it, neither warren or derek is going to have tone like Duane and dickey because, they aren't Duane and Dickey. They have their own preferences to how they want to sound. And in order to play their best, they need their own sound, not the sound of someone else.

[Edited on 5/11/2009 by GuitarPlaynTaylor]


I agree, as much as I love Warren, his tone can be way too fat for my tastes at times. When he's playing lead, I love it, but when he plays chords, it's crackles and loses a lot of fidelity. But that's his style, he's a crunchy loud player and as you say, it's the way he likes it.

And while I find a lot of sound does get lost in the walls of the Beacon theater, Derek and Warren's tones are going to be a lot different from Duane and Dickey. I'm glad he's a fan, but I think he's comparing apples to oranges and remembering with rose-tinted glasses. He refers to them as a 'tribute band', but these are two guitar players with their own voice. If they just recreated the tone of Dickey and Duane then they would truly be a tribute band, and who wants to see that?


They said the tone was thin and tinny. But Warren's tone IS, as you say, quite fat. I am not enough of an expert to even know what they are talking about but I have heard many guitarists and I love Warren and Derek's tone so I respectfully disagree.

 

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  posted on 5/10/2009 at 09:35 PM
quote:
They said the tone was thin and tinny. But Warren's tone IS, as you say, quite fat. I am not enough of an expert to even know what they are talking about but I have heard many guitarists and I love Warren and Derek's tone so I respectfully disagree.


What I was saying is his tone is fat on leads, but it loses a lot of middle tones when he plays chords, and then it does get thin and crackly. A guitar amp is essentially a poor speaker - when the gain is turned up high it can only separate the tones so much (especially in an old theater like the Beacon). Don't get me wrong, I love Warren's style, but I do prefer clean chords.

 

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  posted on 5/10/2009 at 09:37 PM
They are experts at being blowhards IMO. Tone, Shmone, the guitar work during the Beacon run by both Warren and Derek was nothing short of magical IMO. They have a tremendous chemistry and have gotten better every year even when you think they can't get any better. I never listen to so called tone experts. Frowns on their faces at a Beacon show! That right there tells me that these guys are stooges. My ears do my listening and the tone at the Beacon was perfect for the show I attended and the tone sounded awesome for the other 14 on Moogis. I guess my ears are just too unsophisticated.

 

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  posted on 5/10/2009 at 10:48 PM
I can't respond to this as an expert on guitar tone and sound because honestly I have little idea of what that means. Reading this quoted piece of the article though it seems to me that the writers who are giving their opinions are fans of the ABB with Dickey Betts and not so without him. I can understand that, but their article is written with a bias that they could not set aside. Disappointing yes, but it really does not bother me as a fan of the band in all of it's manifestations. Just out of curiosity, what is an uber-boomer?

Be safe,
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  posted on 5/10/2009 at 10:52 PM
It is obviously slanted. Calling the ABB a tribute band yet endorsing Dickey's band is just silly. Both bands favor classic material over new stuff, and obviously neither band is chock-full of original members.

Simply declaring that you don't have an axe to grind does not mean you don't have an axe to grind....

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 12:53 AM
They are a bunch of "failed musicians" and wannabe's. who gives a rats ass what they think?. "Tone quest" my ass.

[Edited on 5/11/2009 by pops42]

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 05:26 AM
Maybe they had a little too much Bass Ale.
 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 08:10 AM
derek's tone with the ABB is nothing compared to his tone with the DTB. He admits it himself. He always plays with the fender super reverb with the DTB and he sounds phenomenal. With the ABB, he is always trying something new in order to cut through the massive amount of noise. he has tried the super, randalls and now the PRS. nothing seems to work. and this from the man that jimmy herring says has the ultimate tone.

warren's tone in the 90s was unreal. what happened to the good old days of ABB concerts with marshall stacks in the back line?

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 08:30 AM
quote:
So perhaps you too can imagine our surprise when we traveled to the historic Beacon Theatre in New York for a night with the Allman Brothers Band featuring Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes filling in for Duane and Dickey.


It is at this point that it is clear that this is nothing more than an opinion piece. Nothing more, nothing less.

"Searching for the perfect tone." WTF ever. It's music. You like it, you like it, you don't, you don't.

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 08:43 AM
quote:
what happened to the good old days of ABB concerts with marshall stacks in the back line?
They left with Dickey Betts.

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 08:45 AM
quote:
quote:
So perhaps you too can imagine our surprise when we traveled to the historic Beacon Theatre in New York for a night with the Allman Brothers Band featuring Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes filling in for Duane and Dickey.


It is at this point that it is clear that this is nothing more than an opinion piece. Nothing more, nothing less.

"Searching for the perfect tone." WTF ever. It's music. You like it, you like it, you don't, you don't.
Really.

It makes you wonder if the TQ folks had heard ABB recently.

I like Derek best when he used the Super Sixes. That was such a sharp, cleaner, biting tone. The Soldano and the PRS are a little too distorted. Again this is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 08:49 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
So perhaps you too can imagine our surprise when we traveled to the historic Beacon Theatre in New York for a night with the Allman Brothers Band featuring Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes filling in for Duane and Dickey.


It is at this point that it is clear that this is nothing more than an opinion piece. Nothing more, nothing less.

"Searching for the perfect tone." WTF ever. It's music. You like it, you like it, you don't, you don't.
Really.

It makes you wonder if the TQ folks had heard ABB recently.

I like Derek best when he used the Super Sixes. That was such a sharp, cleaner, biting tone. The Soldano and the PRS are a little too distorted. Again this is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.


I like what I heard from Derek with the 6s also.
Back in the Dickey days, Warren's tone was more ABB pleasing. Noticed a few years ago at WANEE .
Last fall in Birmy...
I agree with the Tone Quest guys. All in all it doesn't matter.

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 09:05 AM
I've been listening to the entire first week of the Beacon 09. I do prefer Derek's tone to Warren's, but my preference is as good as theirs- it only means something to me.

This statement:
"So perhaps you too can imagine our surprise when we traveled to the historic Beacon Theatre in New York for a night with the Allman Brothers Band featuring Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes filling in for Duane and Dickey."

is just a cheap shot.

Dickey's tone has, to my ears, always been the ultimate. Clear with just a pinch of crunch. To tie these comparisons in an article about the ABB at the Beacon is another cheap, preferential shot.
Tone is way too subjective to make a believer of anyone- hell, there are people that prefer George Thorogood's current tone to his tone 30 years agp. Go figure...

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 09:18 AM
First, their bias is obvious. Calling the band a tribute band while extolling the virtues of DB and GS says all you need on that topic.

I don't know if it's tone, equipment, whatever, but to my ears, Warren played more melodically with Dickey than Derek.

I agree that these guys must have hit the Bass too hard.

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 09:26 AM
Tone is what you hear

people are gonna hear different things
from the same source.

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 10:04 AM
Your tone is your signature. You as a guitar player are always trying to tweek your tone . Personally I always loved the sound of Warrens guitar through the Marshall . The Soldano , Diaz and so on just never did it for me. But hey ! Warren is on his own tone quest. he has to like what he hears . As for Derrick's tone , my ears prefer him through the Blackface Fenders . He too has to like what 's coming out of those speakers for his personal inspiration. Now to Dickey. He sounds like Dickey whichever guitar he is playing. Fender Squire , PRS , ES 335 , Goldie or Les Paul Reissues . I think that is the mark of a Master . Carlos , Eric , Mark , Jeff , Frank Zappa , Duane it didn't matter what guitar was in their hands it sounded like Them . Tone Quest defined in my my mind. What's your definition ?
 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 10:11 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
So perhaps you too can imagine our surprise when we traveled to the historic Beacon Theatre in New York for a night with the Allman Brothers Band featuring Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes filling in for Duane and Dickey.


It is at this point that it is clear that this is nothing more than an opinion piece. Nothing more, nothing less.

"Searching for the perfect tone." WTF ever. It's music. You like it, you like it, you don't, you don't.
Really.

It makes you wonder if the TQ folks had heard ABB recently.

I like Derek best when he used the Super Sixes. That was such a sharp, cleaner, biting tone. The Soldano and the PRS are a little too distorted. Again this is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
Let me my opinion a little.

The Super 6s I prefer are for playing with ABB. My favorite Derek tone is the Super Reverbs hands down. I wish he could use those with ABB.

You may continue with your discussion.

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 10:21 AM
I like Dereks tone through his blackface amps much better. Warren has been using a more modern setup of late, Diaz, and such, and the modern amps have a more compressed and thin distortion sound to them. I really like vintage equipment and the natural distortion you get from them. I also noticed that their stage volume has gone back up. When I saw them a few years back...like 2004 they had turned down the stage volume and Derek was using his Super 6. It sounded great. I also think there is just a different way of mixing live band now. Lots of Bass....no mids and hissy painful trebles. When I saw Derek a few weeks ago in SF he used his Super reverbs and his sound was much beefier and balanced. His tone through moogis at the beacon was much more grindy as was Warrens. But it could be my setuip here I wasn't at the Beacon getting the true sound

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 11:31 AM
For the couple of years I've seen the TQ report, I have to say I've never seen them so directly comment on an individual or band's guitar tone in a negative way. It does make you think that there may have been more to this. A bad trip to NYC for other reasons? Who knows. But some of you commenting that there seems to be a personal angle to this may have a point.

They also didn't mention where they sat. Acoustics vary to a tremendous degree depending upon the listerner's location. I know from personal experience that some shows I've seen there (ABB and others) where I was in the first 8-10 rows, it seemed like the bass response was rather muddy down there.


Sorry Marc - didn't see your similar comments before posting mine




[Edited on 5/11/2009 by Fujirich]

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 02:06 PM
All I will say is there's a lot more people digging Warren and Derek's tone than are digging Dickey's these days. Otherwise it would be Dickey selling out fifteen consecutive nights at the Beacon and the Allman Brothers Band playing to hundreds each night.

I loved Dickey's tone when he was with the Brothers and I love Derek's tone as well as Warren's tone, Jimmy Herring's tone, and Jack Pearson's tone. I have been seeing and listening to this band since 1992 and have never been disappointed with anyone's tone.

I think it is a bunch of snooty bull$hit on the lines of how upper class foodies describe food and try to tell you what tastes good. If the music sounds good it sounds good and the music from this last Beacon run sounds awesome IMO.

 

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  posted on 5/11/2009 at 02:15 PM
It also raises a question about expectations and how they work.

When I go to see a band in 2009, I do not expect 1970, in tone or otherwise. I don't figure Jeff Beck will be playing his Les Paul, etc.

The best concert I ever saw, Eric Clapton on his blues tour 1994, had two or three people around me complaining that he did not play "Layla" or anything off "Journeyman." That ruined the show for them. To me, as I say, it was the most remarkable concert I've ever been part of.

I love the ABB sound of 1970, but shouldn't a band be allowed to progress or change over 35 years?

It does not always mean you'll like the changes, but still, it is worth considering.

I saw Kiss's reunion tour in 1996, and they replicated their 1978 tour almost note for note. It gave much of the audience what they wanted, but I had very mixed feelings about it. That, to me, was a tribute band; they succeeded at sounding exactly like the did 20 years before.

I think that Duane Allman changed his sound a fair amount in the few short years he was with us. He sounds different to me on "Loan Me A Dime" than he did on LAFE.

 
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