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Author: Subject: Obama's eligibility -- human nature aspect

A Peach Supreme





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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 09:54 AM
There's a growing number of people who are questioning Obama's eligibility to be POTUS. Whether you believe he was born in Hawaii or Kenya, the nagging question remains: why won't he make his birth certificate (not the same as a certificate of live birth)and college records available? Put another way, why are they locked up so tightly?

It's human nature, I think, to be suspicious of someone who's this secretive about his past. There's no reason not to reveal them. But when he's this reluctant, it's hard for many not to trust him.

I've read of increasing questions among the military (but I don't have numbers or citations at hand). Military personnel who put their lives at risk on the say-so of the Commander-in-Chief have a right, I think, to be positive about his legitimacy for the office.

All he would need to do would be to make the records public. Even for something as relatively simple as buying a car, I want a clear idea of the car's legal ownership, repair history, and so on (not knowing one used car's repair history wound up costing me several thousands.) I expect more from someone who's supposed to be my leader, with all the responsibilities the job calls for.

Can anyone come up with good reasons for him not to? Are there reasons for us to trust someone who's so secretive?

Billastro

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 11:19 AM
quote:
Geeze, Bill, don't you think this was completely checked out already? Give it a rest. Obama is the POTUS and will be until at least 1/20/13.
But that's not the point of the question. The question won't go away, it hasn't been checked out thoroughly, and it would be easy for Obama himself to retire it by showing some basic documents. The point is this: why is Obama so secretive about his documents? Why should I believe him? "This was completely checked out" is what I call the third-person, passive irresponsible. Who checked this out? How thoroughly did they do this? Did they rely on primary sources (birth certificate, for example)? Can I read what they learned?

For example, there are questions about his passport when he was in Pakistan as ayoungster, there are other questions about his schooling in Indonesia, as well as what his college records may say about his birthplace. If soldiers, etc. start questioning his background -- and refusing to serve under him until he proves his origin -- there could eventually be enough sitting on their butts to make it impossible for courts martial, etc., to deal with the numbers of protesters.

When a person is this secretive about his background, the secrecy itself is bound to raise a lot of persistent questions. Regardless of what I believe, that's the core issue at this point.

I've experienced enough in my life as well as the lives of family members and friends, to know that the more I'm supposed to trust someone, the more I need to know about that person's history, values, and so on. A smiling face and a big "Trust Me" aren't enough.

Billastro

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 12:00 PM
This is for all the lazy morons who still think Obama is not a US citizen.

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 12:38 PM
The point that many people are missing, it really doesn't matter where Obama was born, as he was born to a U.S. citizen (his Mom), which means he was a U.S citizen from birth. Which would make him eligible to run and be POTUS. Btw, I grew an Army brat, and have lived overseas (Orleans, France) and have friends who were born oversea because of a parent being in the service and being stationed overseas, and they all were considered U.S citizens from birth with all rights and privileges of U.S. citizenship. Btw, before someone trys to say well both parents were U.S. citizens, in many cases they weren't. Quite a number of American servicemen back in 50s and 60s had wifes who were foreign nationals but nevertheless their children were considered U.S. citizens. Now in some cases, Germany for example, if one parent is U.S. and one parent is German, their children are considered to have "dual citizenship", and when they're over the age of 21, they can choose which country they want to be a citizen of.

Btw, I don't particular care for Obama myself, but c'mon, judge him on what he does or doesn't do and not on some "silly" BS about his birth certificate, or maybe being Muslim, or any of the other "stupid" reasons that really have nothing to do with how he's doing his job. "How he's doing his job" is the only criteria we should be using in judging Obams, anything else is "Pure BS".

[Edited on 4/11/2009 by sibwlkr]

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 02:06 PM
Do you really think if the right had anything on Obama [stealing a candy bar as a 9 year old, kicking a dog etc.] let alone not being a citizen, they would have used it against him??he won, get the f*ck over it already!.

[Edited on 4/11/2009 by pops42]

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 02:15 PM
"But that's not the point of the question. The question won't go away, it hasn't been checked out thoroughly,"
_____________________________________________________________________
The question wont go away because of stupid posts like yours. It has been checked out thoroughly, but you and a very SMALL number of people keep beating on that dead horse.

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 03:11 PM
quote:
"But that's not the point of the question. The question won't go away, it hasn't been checked out thoroughly,"
_____________________________________________________________________
The question wont go away because of stupid posts like yours. It has been checked out thoroughly, but you and a very SMALL number of people keep beating on that dead horse.
So what? Calling it stupid is irrelevant; shooting the messenger = changing the subject. If you don't like it, don't read it.

I still think Obama has the potential to do more, and more substantial damage to America than any president since Carter. I'd love to see him out of office, and would rather not wait till 2012. As far as the citizenship issue goes, remember that the Feds got Capone for income tax evasion. I'll take whatever legal method exists to see him out of office.

Sibwlkr posted:
quote:
The point that many people are missing, it really doesn't matter where Obama was born, as he was born to a U.S. citizen (his Mom), which means he was a U.S citizen from birth.
Not entirely accurate:
quote:
According to much legal research, at the time of Obama's birth he could be a natural born citizen by being born in the United States, by being born to two U.S. citizen parents (not possible because of his father), or, if only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.
Source: http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94535
class="f12pix">quote:
Btw, I don't particular care for Obama myself, but c'mon, judge him on what he does or doesn't do and not on some "silly" BS about his birth certificate, or maybe being Muslim, or any of the other "stupid" reasons that really have nothing to do with how he's doing his job. "How he's doing his job" is the only criteria we should be using in judging Obams, anything else is "Pure BS".
Idealism is great, but qualifications count as well. If he lied (by not being qualified), then he's out until there's a very unlikely constitutional amendment. If he's qualified, then so be it. But as long as he refuses to do something easy to do, he looks suspicious.

Billastro

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 03:49 PM
worldnetdaily.com= REAL reliable source. One of the most far-right, lunatic, fringe
evangelical news websites on the planet.

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 04:01 PM
Maybe you should send your birth certificate and social security card (certified copy) to all of us so we can tell if you are a real US citizan. Why should you be so secrative? Should a certified copy of all personal information on politic canidates be sent to every voter in America along with their votor information? McCain wasn't born in the the 50 sates either, but funny that you don't see the right wing papers making that an issue. Give it a rest. The officials in Hawaii confirmed that he had a valid birth certificate and the newspapers even ran a birth announcementf or him. Really, what do you want? A video of his birth with Diamond Head showing through a window? You would probably think that was even a fake. Some people will never be satisfied.
 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 04:20 PM
quote:
quote:
"But that's not the point of the question. The question won't go away, it hasn't been checked out thoroughly,"
_____________________________________________________________________
The question wont go away because of stupid posts like yours. It has been checked out thoroughly, but you and a very SMALL number of people keep beating on that dead horse.
So what? Calling it stupid is irrelevant; shooting the messenger = changing the subject. If you don't like it, don't read it.

I still think Obama has the potential to do more, and more substantial damage to America than any president since Carter. I'd love to see him out of office, and would rather not wait till 2012. As far as the citizenship issue goes, remember that the Feds got Capone for income tax evasion. I'll take whatever legal method exists to see him out of office.

Sibwlkr posted:
quote:
The point that many people are missing, it really doesn't matter where Obama was born, as he was born to a U.S. citizen (his Mom), which means he was a U.S citizen from birth.
Not entirely accurate:
quote:
According to much legal research, at the time of Obama's birth he could be a natural born citizen by being born in the United States, by being born to two U.S. citizen parents (not possible because of his father), or, if only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.
Source: http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94535
class="f12pix">quote:
Btw, I don't particular care for Obama myself, but c'mon, judge him on what he does or doesn't do and not on some "silly" BS about his birth certificate, or maybe being Muslim, or any of the other "stupid" reasons that really have nothing to do with how he's doing his job. "How he's doing his job" is the only criteria we should be using in judging Obams, anything else is "Pure BS".
Idealism is great, but qualifications count as well. If he lied (by not being qualified), then he's out until there's a very unlikely constitutional amendment. If he's qualified, then so be it. But as long as he refuses to do something easy to do, he looks suspicious.

Billastro
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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 06:54 PM
Wow, Bill. I honestly thought you were smarter than all this. I guess we can just put you in the nutter category. Got any chem trail news for us?

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 07:18 PM
quote:
Wow, Bill. I honestly thought you were smarter than all this. I guess we can just put you in the nutter category. Got any chem trail news for us?
I am. But in the space of a handful of posts I've seen the words morons, far-right, lunatic, fringe evangelical (time for the anti-Christian bigot to weigh in), and nutter. Oh, I almost forgot, little troll.

"Can anyone come up with good reasons for him not to? Are there reasons for us to trust someone who's so secretive?" were the questions which none of you answered.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I see far more name-calling, personal invective, and so on from the Left than I do from the Right, especially here. This is how children argue. They call each other names, change the subject, and do everything but deal with the issue. They get petulant and cranky. They mock instead of behaving like adults.

If this is the best you can do, you're a sorry lot indeed (oops -- was that name calling?). The whole crew of you couldn't handle yourselves in a junior-high-level debate.

Billastro

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 07:52 PM


 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 09:28 PM
quote:
quote:
Wow, Bill. I honestly thought you were smarter than all this. I guess we can just put you in the nutter category. Got any chem trail news for us?
I am. But in the space of a handful of posts I've seen the words morons, far-right, lunatic, fringe evangelical (time for the anti-Christian bigot to weigh in), and nutter. Oh, I almost forgot, little troll.

"Can anyone come up with good reasons for him not to? Are there reasons for us to trust someone who's so secretive?" were the questions which none of you answered.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I see far more name-calling, personal invective, and so on from the Left than I do from the Right, especially here. This is how children argue. They call each other names, change the subject, and do everything but deal with the issue. They get petulant and cranky. They mock instead of behaving like adults.

If this is the best you can do, you're a sorry lot indeed (oops -- was that name calling?). The whole crew of you couldn't handle yourselves in a junior-high-level debate.

Billastro


I still don't see why people think he is secretive about this. He isn't. The question was answered a long time ago. What is he suppost to do exactly? Post a copy in the library of congress for every scholer in the country to inspect? Do you think that George W. Bush had to produce his birth certificate several times? Please take a look at these links:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

[Edited on 4/12/2009 by 2112]

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 09:37 PM
quote:
the nagging question remains: why won't he make his birth certificate (not the same as a certificate of live birth)and college records available?


That's easy, Bill. He's the Anti-Christ. You'll find out where he's from soon enough.

quote:
I still think Obama has the potential to do more, and more substantial damage to America than any president since Carter. I'd love to see him out of office, and would rather not wait till 2012. As far as the citizenship issue goes, remember that the Feds got Capone for income tax evasion. I'll take whatever legal method exists to see him out of office.



That's pretty heavy, Bill. The man was elected president by the citizens of the United States, but because you disagree with his policies, you'd like to see him overthrown by any legal means available.

You should be able to read your own posts and see why the nation gave you and yours a sound rejection slip in the last election.

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 09:54 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Wow, Bill. I honestly thought you were smarter than all this. I guess we can just put you in the nutter category. Got any chem trail news for us?
I am. But in the space of a handful of posts I've seen the words morons, far-right, lunatic, fringe evangelical (time for the anti-Christian bigot to weigh in), and nutter. Oh, I almost forgot, little troll.

"Can anyone come up with good reasons for him not to? Are there reasons for us to trust someone who's so secretive?" were the questions which none of you answered.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I see far more name-calling, personal invective, and so on from the Left than I do from the Right, especially here. This is how children argue. They call each other names, change the subject, and do everything but deal with the issue. They get petulant and cranky. They mock instead of behaving like adults.

If this is the best you can do, you're a sorry lot indeed (oops -- was that name calling?). The whole crew of you couldn't handle yourselves in a junior-high-level debate.

Billastro


I still don't see why people think he is secretive about this. He isn't. The question was answered a long time ago. What is he suppost to do exactly? Post a copy in the library of congress for every scholer in the country to inspect? Do you think that George W. Bush had to produce his birth certificate several times? Please take a look at these links:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

[Edited on 4/12/2009 by 2112]


So please Bill, after you look at these links, tell me exactly why you think he is secretive and why you believe that there is a huge conspiracy that involves several Hawaii officials as well as 2 newspapers that date back to the date of his birth?

[Edited on 4/12/2009 by 2112]

 

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  posted on 4/11/2009 at 10:59 PM
quote:
"Can anyone come up with good reasons for him not to?


He has already released this information. Its old news at this point except by folks that are literally looking for anything to hamstring him.

quote:
Are there reasons for us to trust someone who's so secretive?" were the questions which none of you answered.


Again, two books about every sordid detail of his life and his long released piles of information readily available completely destroys the notion that he is being secretive. Its sad to see people grasping at such desperation filled ideas.


quote:
I've said this before and I'll say it again. I see far more name-calling, personal invective, and so on from the Left than I do from the Right, especially here. This is how children argue. They call each other names, change the subject, and do everything but deal with the issue. They get petulant and cranky. They mock instead of behaving like adults.


Well, frankly, the topic of this thread is ridiculous and has been dealt with for a long time now. Any further entertainment of it should really be reserved for humor-inducing purposes only. Just because people think you might have a screw loose for harping on an issue right up there with UFO's having a base in the arctic and chem trails is no reason to become disappointed in the lack of discourse here. The signal to noise ratio needs work.

quote:
If this is the best you can do, you're a sorry lot indeed (oops -- was that name calling?). The whole crew of you couldn't handle yourselves in a junior-high-level debate.

Billastro


Cmon, Bill. This is wayyy y too obvious even for you.

 

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  posted on 4/12/2009 at 08:57 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Wow, Bill. I honestly thought you were smarter than all this. I guess we can just put you in the nutter category. Got any chem trail news for us?
I am. But in the space of a handful of posts I've seen the words morons, far-right, lunatic, fringe evangelical (time for the anti-Christian bigot to weigh in), and nutter. Oh, I almost forgot, little troll. Name calling is the weakest form of refutation I know of and reveals more about the callers than their target.

"Can anyone come up with good reasons for him not to? Are there reasons for us to trust someone who's so secretive?" were the questions which none of you answered.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I see far more name-calling, personal invective, and so on from the Left than I do from the Right, especially here. This is how children argue. They call each other names, change the subject, and do everything but deal with the issue. They get petulant and cranky. They mock instead of behaving like adults.

If this is the best you can do, you're a sorry lot indeed (oops -- was that name calling?). The whole crew of you couldn't handle yourselves in a junior-high-level debate.

Billastro


Oh geeze, Bill 6the questions has been asked and answered. If Obama wasn't an American, don't you think the RNC would have pursued it. You are being purposely obtuse and acting petty when people call you on it.
You're still missing the point. It's his silence and the sealing of the records that piques my curiosity. IIRC he claimed some kind of transparency as being part of his administration. This isn't transparent.

As for removing him from office, he's not doing much to stick to the Constitution. The bailout certainly violates it, and his canning the CEO of GM (for all intents and purposes) isn't much better.

I completely disagree with virtually everything he stands for, whether it's abortion (including the barbarous, savage partial abortion), income redistribution, or anything else. I consider him to be dishonest and devious. I don't trust him. Of course I want him out of office!

It doesn't matter whether 52% or 92% elected him. The impeachment process doesn't take that into account. I'd love to see him out of the White House. If I have to wait till 2112 then I will. But if there are grounds to haul him out beforehand, that would suit me well.

Am I the only one who's noticed it's the same small group of liberals who respond the most loudly?

Billastro

 

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  posted on 4/12/2009 at 09:04 AM
Billastro, I'd jump in and agree on some of your points, but as you see the group around here is very well versed in soundly beating down anything like this.

I tried this same thing prior to the election and got soundly beaten down.

As you know, it doesn't matter if you are attempting to ask a legit question, it gets lost in the beating.

And for the record, I'm not sure I agree wholeheartedly with all of your points against the President....but that too will probably get lost in the beatings.

 

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  posted on 4/12/2009 at 09:08 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Wow, Bill. I honestly thought you were smarter than all this. I guess we can just put you in the nutter category. Got any chem trail news for us?
I am. But in the space of a handful of posts I've seen the words morons, far-right, lunatic, fringe evangelical (time for the anti-Christian bigot to weigh in), and nutter. Oh, I almost forgot, little troll. Name calling is the weakest form of refutation I know of and reveals more about the callers than their target.

"Can anyone come up with good reasons for him not to? Are there reasons for us to trust someone who's so secretive?" were the questions which none of you answered.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I see far more name-calling, personal invective, and so on from the Left than I do from the Right, especially here. This is how children argue. They call each other names, change the subject, and do everything but deal with the issue. They get petulant and cranky. They mock instead of behaving like adults.

If this is the best you can do, you're a sorry lot indeed (oops -- was that name calling?). The whole crew of you couldn't handle yourselves in a junior-high-level debate.

Billastro


Oh geeze, Bill 6the questions has been asked and answered. If Obama wasn't an American, don't you think the RNC would have pursued it. You are being purposely obtuse and acting petty when people call you on it.
You're still missing the point. It's his silence and the sealing of the records that piques my curiosity. IIRC he claimed some kind of transparency as being part of his administration. This isn't transparent.

As for removing him from office, he's not doing much to stick to the Constitution. The bailout certainly violates it, and his canning the CEO of GM (for all intents and purposes) isn't much better.

I completely disagree with virtually everything he stands for, whether it's abortion (including the barbarous, savage partial abortion), income redistribution, or anything else. I consider him to be dishonest and devious. I don't trust him. Of course I want him out of office!

It doesn't matter whether 52% or 92% elected him. The impeachment process doesn't take that into account. I'd love to see him out of the White House. If I have to wait till 2112 then I will. But if there are grounds to haul him out beforehand, that would suit me well.

Am I the only one who's noticed it's the same small group of liberals who respond the most loudly?

Billastro




Most people here ignore your nonsense, Bill.

Am I the only one who's noticed that no one steps up to defend Bill, or agree with him?

 

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  posted on 4/12/2009 at 09:09 AM
quote:
Billastro, I'd jump in and agree on some of your points, but as you see the group around here is very well versed in soundly beating down anything like this.

I tried this same thing prior to the election and got soundly beaten down.

As you know, it doesn't matter if you are attempting to ask a legit question, it gets lost in the beating.

And for the record, I'm not sure I agree wholeheartedly with all of your points against the President....but that too will probably get lost in the beatings.
Yup. Thanks for the empathy! And have you noticed it's usually the same tiny group? Sigh.

Billastro

 

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  posted on 4/12/2009 at 09:12 AM
quote:
quote:
Billastro, I'd jump in and agree on some of your points, but as you see the group around here is very well versed in soundly beating down anything like this.

I tried this same thing prior to the election and got soundly beaten down.

As you know, it doesn't matter if you are attempting to ask a legit question, it gets lost in the beating.

And for the record, I'm not sure I agree wholeheartedly with all of your points against the President....but that too will probably get lost in the beatings.
Yup. Thanks for the empathy! And have you noticed it's usually the same tiny group? Sigh.

Billastro


So the same people who disagree with you now are the same ones who disagreed with you before? Big deal. What's your point?

I'm curious about the title of this thread...how does the "human nature aspect" of it fit in?

 

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  posted on 4/12/2009 at 09:35 AM
If anybody trusts a politician, I feel sorry for them

when a person represents themselves one way and the actions of that person dictates otherwise, then "human nature" is to not trust that person. I trust no politician.

there was a song called "smiling faces" back in the 70's

 

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  posted on 4/12/2009 at 10:54 AM
quote:
Billastro, I'd jump in and agree on some of your points, but as you see the group around here is very well versed in soundly beating down anything like this.


Because its baseless, stupid, retarded, unfounded, wacky, nutty etc.

quote:
I tried this same thing prior to the election and got soundly beaten down.


Because its baseless, stupid, retarded, unfounded, wacky, nutty etc.

quote:
As you know, it doesn't matter if you are attempting to ask a legit question, it gets lost in the beating.


As a legit question, it was answered months ago. Im sorry if the truth is bothersome or somehow doesnt fit your goofy worldview, but as a catalyst for impeachment, this aint it.

quote:
And for the record, I'm not sure I agree wholeheartedly with all of your points against the President....but that too will probably get lost in the beatings.


No, you just have a different kind of crazy going on. Viva la difference.

 

____________________
Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 15832
(15866 all sites)
Registered: 8/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/12/2009 at 10:59 AM
After everything that Bush did, wouldn't it be funny if the idiots on the right try to have Obama impeached because they don't believe his birth certificate is legitimate?

Life in America gets wackier every day.

 

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