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Author: Subject: Obama is lying...

Peach Extraordinaire





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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 03:48 PM
... while that comes as no surprise to the more mature among us, those suffering from youthful idealism are in for a rude awakening.

# # #

Obama's Rhetoric Is the Real 'Catastrophe'
In 1932, automobile production shriveled by 90%.
By BRADLEY R. SCHILLER

President Barack Obama has turned fearmongering into an art form. He has repeatedly raised the specter of another Great Depression. First, he did so to win votes in the November election. He has done so again recently to sway congressional votes for his stimulus package.

In his remarks, every gloomy statistic on the economy becomes a harbinger of doom. As he tells it, today's economy is the worst since the Great Depression. Without his Recovery and Reinvestment Act, he says, the economy will fall back into that abyss and may never recover.

This fearmongering may be good politics, but it is bad history and bad economics. It is bad history because our current economic woes don't come close to those of the 1930s. At worst, a comparison to the 1981-82 recession might be appropriate. Consider the job losses that Mr. Obama always cites. In the last year, the U.S. economy shed 3.4 million jobs. That's a grim statistic for sure, but represents just 2.2% of the labor force. From November 1981 to October 1982, 2.4 million jobs were lost -- fewer in number than today, but the labor force was smaller. So 1981-82 job losses totaled 2.2% of the labor force, the same as now.

Job losses in the Great Depression were of an entirely different magnitude. In 1930, the economy shed 4.8% of the labor force. In 1931, 6.5%. And then in 1932, another 7.1%. Jobs were being lost at double or triple the rate of 2008-09 or 1981-82.

This was reflected in unemployment rates. The latest survey pegs U.S. unemployment at 7.6%. That's more than three percentage points below the 1982 peak (10.8%) and not even a third of the peak in 1932 (25.2%). You simply can't equate 7.6% unemployment with the Great Depression.

Other economic statistics also dispel any analogy between today's economic woes and the Great Depression. Real gross domestic product (GDP) rose in 2008, despite a bad fourth quarter. The Congressional Budget Office projects a GDP decline of 2% in 2009. That's comparable to 1982, when GDP contracted by 1.9%. It is nothing like 1930, when GDP fell by 9%, or 1931, when GDP contracted by another 8%, or 1932, when it fell yet another 13%.

Auto production last year declined by roughly 25%. That looks good compared to 1932, when production shriveled by 90%. The failure of a couple of dozen banks in 2008 just doesn't compare to over 10,000 bank failures in 1933, or even the 3,000-plus bank (Savings & Loan) failures in 1987-88. Stockholders can take some solace from the fact that the recent stock market debacle doesn't come close to the 90% devaluation of the early 1930s.

Mr. Obama's analogies to the Great Depression are not only historically inaccurate, they're also dangerous. Repeated warnings from the White House about a coming economic apocalypse aren't likely to raise consumer and investor expectations for the future. In fact, they have contributed to the continuing decline in consumer confidence that is restraining a spending pickup. Beyond that, fearmongering can trigger a political stampede to embrace a "recovery" package that delivers a lot less than it promises. A more cool-headed assessment of the economy's woes might produce better policies.

Mr. Schiller, an economics professor at the University of Nevada, Reno, is the author of "The Economy Today" (McGraw-Hill, 2007).

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 03:59 PM
If the Feds stayed out of this, the recession would be over in six months. History shows that every time the Federal Government gets involved in markets and the banking industry they only seem to prolong things.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:05 PM
quote:
If the Feds stayed out of this, the recession would be over in six months. History shows that every time the Federal Government gets involved in markets and the banking industry they only seem to prolong things.


Witness 1933-39. History repeats as we are going to learn soon enough.

 

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As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:08 PM
quote:
Do We Need a New New Deal?

Burton W. Folsom, Jr.
Charles F. Kline Chair in History and Management, Hillsdale College
Author, New Deal or Raw Deal? How FDR's Economic Legacy Has Damaged America

The following is adapted from a speech delivered on January 9, 2009, in Washington, D.C., at a seminar sponsored by Hillsdale's Allan P. Kirby, Jr. Center for Constitutional Studies and Citizenship.


THE NEW Deal has probably been the greatest political force in America during the last 100 years, and Franklin D. Roosevelt has probably been the most influential president during this time. In our current economic crisis—which some have compared with the Great Depression—many critics are calling for more federal programs and a "New New Deal." There are three reasons we do not need a New New Deal from President Obama in 2009.


First, the federal programs in FDR's New Deal did not lower unemployment. Sure, the Works Progress Administration built roads, the Tennessee Valley Authority built dams, and the Civilian Conservation Corps planted trees. But every dollar that went to creating a federal job had to come from taxpayers, who, by sending their cash to Washington, lost the chance to buy hamburgers, movie tickets, or clothes and create new jobs for restaurants, theaters, and tailors.


What's worse, some New Deal programs had terrible unintended consequences. The Agricultural Adjustment Administration, for example, overhauled agriculture by paying farmers not to produce on part of their land. After farmers took the federal dollars, the U.S. developed shortages of the very crops taxpayers were paying farmers not to produce. By 1935, for example, the U.S. was importing almost 35 million bushels of corn, 13 million bushels of wheat, and 36 million pounds of cotton. Simultaneously, we had an army of bureaucrats in the Department of Agriculture to inspect farms (and even to do aerial photography) to ensure farmers were not growing the crops we were importing into the country.


Second, the taxes to pay for the New Deal became astronomical. In 1935, Roosevelt decided to raise the marginal tax rate on top incomes to 79 percent. Later he raised it to 90 percent. These confiscatory rates discouraged entrepreneurs from investing, which prolonged the Great Depression.


Henry Morgenthau, FDR's loyal Secretary of the Treasury, was frustrated at the persistence of double-digit unemployment throughout the 1930s. In May 1939, with unemployment at 20 percent, he exploded at the failed New Deal programs. "We have tried spending money," Morgenthau noted. "We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . We have never made good on our promises. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!"


Third, the New Deal divided and politicized the country in tragic ways. Those who lobbied most effectively won subsidies and bailouts even if their cause was weak. Others, who had greater needs, received nothing. Walter Waters, who led a march of veterans on Washington, lobbied successfully for a special bonus for veterans, whether they had been in battle or not. When asked why veterans—instead of longshoremen or teachers—should receive a special bonus of taxpayer dollars, he said, "I noticed, too, that the highly organized lobbies in Washington for special industries were producing results: loans were being granted to their special interests. . . . Personal lobbying paid, regardless of the justice or injustice of their demand."


Thus, as money became available, those with effective political lobbies won the subsidies and others, who sometimes had more just causes and greater need, received little or nothing. In the case of the veterans, in 1936 they won a $2 billion federal bonus—a sum exceeding six percent of the entire national debt at the time. Teachers, by contrast, were less effective lobbyists and won almost no federal subsidies. Silver miners, led by Senator Key Pittman of Nevada, won a silver subsidy that paid almost $300,000 a day each day for 14 years, but coal miners were left out.


In another example, under Presidents Hoover and Roosevelt, Illinois lobbied effectively and won $55,443,721 under the first federal welfare grant while Massachusetts received zero federal dollars. Without federal money for welfare needs, Massachusetts valiantly raised its own funds to secure what Illinois extracted from Washington. The Boston Civic Symphony repeatedly gave concerts to benefit the jobless. City officials and teachers raised money and took pay cuts. Massachusetts Governor Joseph Ely believed that no state should receive federal aid and that private charity was the best charity; that federal relief ruined both taxpayers and those in need. "Whatever the justification for relief," Ely said, "the fact remains that the way in which it has been used makes it the greatest political asset on the practical side of party politics ever held by an administration." Ely added that "millions of men and women . . . have come to believe almost that there is no hope for them except upon a government payroll."


Federal dollars always become political dollars, and the Democrats moved to use federal money to gain votes at election time. In Pennsylvania, Joseph Guffey, the successful Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate in 1934, ran a campaign ad that said, "Compare this $297,942,173 contributed by Pennsylvania to the U.S. U.S. Treasury with the cash and credit of $678,074,195 contributed to Pennsylvania by the Roosevelt Democratic administration." Vote Democrat, Guffey and others proclaimed, and the federal faucet will keep running. James Doherty, a New Hampshire Democrat, said, "It is my personal belief that to the victor belong the spoils and that Democrats should be holding most of these [WPA] positions so that we might strengthen our fences for the 1940 election." One WPA director in New Jersey—a corrupt but candid man—answered his office phone, "Democratic Headquarters."


If history is a guide, we have every reason to believe that if President Obama institutes a New New Deal, then universal health care, federal bailouts, and jobs stimulus programs will be costly, will be politicized, and will fail.


 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:11 PM
The author of this article, Bradley R. Schiller, posts columns over at hoover.org, the home
of the CONSERVATIVE RIGHT WING THINK TANK, the Hoover Institution, founded by that FOUNDER
OF THE 1930's GREAT DEPRESSION, President Herbert Hoover. Big surprise, coming from RBK.

[Edited on 2/16/2009 by woodsdweller]

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:17 PM
quote:
The author of this article, Bradley R. Schiller, posts columns over at hoover.org, the home
of the CONSERVATIVE RIGHT WING THINK TANK, the Hoover Institution, founded by that FOUNDER
OF THE 1930's GREAT DEPRESSION, President Herbert Hoover. Big surprise, coming from RBK.

[Edited on 2/16/2009 by woodsdweller]


So? Your point is what? Or haven't you thought that far ahead?

Nice to know you've mastered Google though.

 

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As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:26 PM
quote:
Copy. Paste. Troll for response.


At a loss for a rebuttal? Again? This is getting to be a regular thing with you, Stalker Boy. Can you refute any of Schiller's assertions?

 

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As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:32 PM
quote:
P.S.

In case you forgot/can't read like last time... I didn't read your copy/paste job. Again.


Again, you were afraid you might learn something, right?

RIGHT?

 

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As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:37 PM
COPY, PASTE, TROLL FOR RESPONSE.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:39 PM
The article posted is either by an idiot or someone who tries to manipulate information in a woefully incompetent manner. Only another idiot woulod have any trouble seeing through it. Obama says the economy is the worst SINCE the depression (Let me explain it to you; that means it does not include the depression), and the author himself confirms this with his data. Obama has never said this economy is equal to or worse than the depression, only that without action we are in danger of sliding that far economically. This is exactly the same thing the Bush administration was saying with the first stimulus bill that was ramrodded through congress and has resulted in all the misapplication of funds (talk about pork!). I myself have never favored any stimnulus package or bailout and would refer we ride out whatever is coming, let the market correct itself,and come out on the other side leaner and stronger for it. That, however does not mean I have lost the ability to read or comprehend what I read.

Okay, this is kind of fun. But no substitute for actually having a life. By the way RBK, your signiture indicates that you are no better or different than those you rail against, and confirms that you are either unwilling or unable to rise above what you consider hypocritical, uninformed, and immature.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:50 PM
quote:
RBK had to go put some more flyers up for Ladies Night, he'll be back shortly.


____________________




LOL!

 

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Copying from a single source is called plagiarism, copying from multiple source is called research.....

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:50 PM
quote:
The article posted is either by an idiot or someone who tries to manipulate information in a woefully incompetent manner. Only another idiot woulod have any trouble seeing through it. Obama says the economy is the worst SINCE the depression (Let me explain it to you; that means it does not include the depression), and the author himself confirms this with his data. Obama has never said this economy is equal to or worse than the depression, only that without action we are in danger of sliding that far economically. This is exactly the same thing the Bush administration was saying with the first stimulus bill that was ramrodded through congress and has resulted in all the misapplication of funds (talk about pork!). I myself have never favored any stimnulus package or bailout and would refer we ride out whatever is coming, let the market correct itself,and come out on the other side leaner and stronger for it. That, however does not mean I have lost the ability to read or comprehend what I read.

Okay, this is kind of fun. But no substitute for actually having a life. By the way RBK, your signiture indicates that you are no better or different than those you rail against, and confirms that you are either unwilling or unable to rise above what you consider hypocritical, uninformed, and immature.


Ah, parsing the meaning of someone else's words to satisfy your own agenda. Actually, parsing one sentence within an entire essay so as to dismiss it out of hand. How very "progressive" of you.

As for my 'signiture' I stand by it, every word.

 

____________________
As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 04:57 PM
quote:
Wow RBK, keep dodging my post. And Fuji's!

Hyprocite.


Naturally I agree with the gist of Fuji's post:

"If history is a guide, we have every reason to believe that if President Obama institutes a New New Deal, then universal health care, federal bailouts, and jobs stimulus programs will be costly, will be politicized, and will fail."

Did YOU post something worthwhile, Stalker Boy? All I saw was adolescent taunts. My thirteen year old son would have you in tears inside of five minutes.

 

____________________
As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:04 PM
quote:
quote:
The article posted is either by an idiot or someone who tries to manipulate information in a woefully incompetent manner. Only another idiot woulod have any trouble seeing through it. Obama says the economy is the worst SINCE the depression (Let me explain it to you; that means it does not include the depression), and the author himself confirms this with his data. Obama has never said this economy is equal to or worse than the depression, only that without action we are in danger of sliding that far economically. This is exactly the same thing the Bush administration was saying with the first stimulus bill that was ramrodded through congress and has resulted in all the misapplication of funds (talk about pork!). I myself have never favored any stimnulus package or bailout and would refer we ride out whatever is coming, let the market correct itself,and come out on the other side leaner and stronger for it. That, however does not mean I have lost the ability to read or comprehend what I read.

Okay, this is kind of fun. But no substitute for actually having a life. By the way RBK, your signiture indicates that you are no better or different than those you rail against, and confirms that you are either unwilling or unable to rise above what you consider hypocritical, uninformed, and immature.


Ah, parsing the meaning of someone else's words to satisfy your own agenda. Actually, parsing one sentence within an entire essay so as to dismiss it out of hand. How very "progressive" of you.

As for my 'signiture' I stand by it, every word.

Obviously you are unable to put together anything resembling a coherent thought on your own. No wonder the cut and paste gig. I pointed out to you why the article has no merit based on it's dishonest stretch, or, if you will, "parsing" of Obama's statements regarding the economy. My "agenda", in case you didn't notice, is actually counter to Obama's (and Bush's) bailout packages. Too bad you couldn't think your way through to address the similarities of these stimulus proposals. We might have been able to have a discussion. I am not "progressive" by any stretch of the imagination; I'm a native Texan, which kind of rules that out. I believe you stand by your "signature" (Believe it or not I can spell very well, I just don't type worth c**p) and all the meaning that I associate with it.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:09 PM
quote:

Obviously you are unable to put together anything resembling a coherent thought on your own.... Too bad you couldn't think your way through to address the similarities of these stimulus proposals. We might have been able to have a discussion.


"Too bad" you have to resort to childish insults to strengthen your "mature discussions." Who was chastising me for being a hypocrite a little while ago? Oh yeah! YOU were!

 

____________________
As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:16 PM
quote:
quote:

Obviously you are unable to put together anything resembling a coherent thought on your own.... Too bad you couldn't think your way through to address the similarities of these stimulus proposals. We might have been able to have a discussion.


"Too bad" you have to resort to childish insults to strengthen your "mature discussions." Who was chastising me for being a hypocrite a little while ago? Oh yeah! YOU were!

Oh, I get it. Since you can't debate/discuss/think for yourself, you pull the old "bait and switch" when confronted and then try to get somebody chasing their tail. That is why people here callyou a troll; you don't want to discuss anything. Whats the matter, you got Daddy issues you haven't resolved yet? Maybe you should see a professional instead of throwing tantrums on a music website. Anytime you want to go back and address my objections to the article I'd be happy to discuss it with you.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:17 PM
When the copy/paste post of an article is prefaced with a condecending and confrontational preface, that is puposely baiting the hook for the kind of "predictable" replies that result. In short, it gets the reaction RBK is looking for by using a classic, if not tiresome, troll tactic (the fact that we keep falling into this trap is our own fault). Not to mention that the column that was posted is just OPINIONS (not facts as RBK wants us to believe), essentially nothing more than a rehash of the same opinions that have been argued about in multitudes of threads. If RBK really wants to engage in a dialog he would need to find a more productive way to go about it because the his "Copy. Paste. Troll for response." methodolgy has not only become predictable but it has also made whatever he copies and pastes become irrelevant.

 

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I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:18 PM
he misses bigann

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:19 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:

Obviously you are unable to put together anything resembling a coherent thought on your own.... Too bad you couldn't think your way through to address the similarities of these stimulus proposals. We might have been able to have a discussion.


"Too bad" you have to resort to childish insults to strengthen your "mature discussions." Who was chastising me for being a hypocrite a little while ago? Oh yeah! YOU were!


You can't read. WannabeDerek called you a hypocrite. Doug proved you to be slow. You just proved your a fool. Got it? right?


RIGHT?


From Doug's post:

"By the way RBK, your signiture indicates that you are no better or different than those you rail against, and confirms that you are either unwilling or unable to rise above what you consider hypocritical, uninformed, and immature. "

It's apparently you who can't read Old Timer. What "Stalker Boy" said is, as always, irrelevant to the subject at hand and Doug proved nothing except that he shares your penchant for infantile repartee disguised as mature discussion. BTW, don't you have some women to beat up on?

 

____________________
As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:21 PM
RBK, please describe in detail what you believe to be a
"mature discussion"?

I'm not sure you grasp the fine points of your own rhetoric ...

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:21 PM
quote:
Whats the matter, you got Daddy issues you haven't resolved yet? Maybe you should see a professional instead of throwing tantrums on a music website.


Thank you for proving my point. Again. Wanna go for threesies?

 

____________________
As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:21 PM
quote:
he misses bigann




He's in the minority there.

 

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RIP Hugh Duty

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:26 PM
quote:
Let me guess, you're a Massachusetts native now living in Maine. My sister, (who's lived in Maine for over thirty years) and her friends refer to your type as 'Massholes."
from the person who brought us following ...
quote:
"Too bad" you have to resort to childish insults to strengthen your "mature discussions."
The pot remains hard at work.

 

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"Come on down to the Mermaid Cafe and I will buy you a bottle of wine, and we'll laugh and toast to nothing and smash our empty glasses down..."

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:26 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:

Obviously you are unable to put together anything resembling a coherent thought on your own.... Too bad you couldn't think your way through to address the similarities of these stimulus proposals. We might have been able to have a discussion.


"Too bad" you have to resort to childish insults to strengthen your "mature discussions." Who was chastising me for being a hypocrite a little while ago? Oh yeah! YOU were!


You can't read. WannabeDerek called you a hypocrite. Doug proved you to be slow. You just proved your a fool. Got it? right?


RIGHT?


From Doug's post:

"By the way RBK, your signiture indicates that you are no better or different than those you rail against, and confirms that you are either unwilling or unable to rise above what you consider hypocritical, uninformed, and immature. "

It's apparently you who can't read Old Timer. What "Stalker Boy" said is, as always, irrelevant to the subject at hand and Doug proved nothing except that he shares your penchant for infantile repartee disguised as mature discussion. BTW, don't you have some women to beat up on?

Sorry bud, I didn't call you a hypocrite. Here's a reading comprehension lesson for the day, free of charge. I said you were no better than those you rail against based, on your signature, and were either unwilling or unable to rise above what you considered hypocritical, uninformed, and immature. You can look each word up individually if you need to, it's okay. I'm hoping by restating in a slightly different order it may help you. If I was calling you a hypocrite, I'd say something like "RBK, you are a hypocrite." Got it?

You are heading for gina status pretty quickly. Still time to engage in honest discussion, if you'd like to give it a try. If not, might I suggest the terrorism threads.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 2/16/2009 at 05:27 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:

Obviously you are unable to put together anything resembling a coherent thought on your own.... Too bad you couldn't think your way through to address the similarities of these stimulus proposals. We might have been able to have a discussion.


"Too bad" you have to resort to childish insults to strengthen your "mature discussions." Who was chastising me for being a hypocrite a little while ago? Oh yeah! YOU were!


You can't read. WannabeDerek called you a hypocrite. Doug proved you to be slow. You just proved your a fool. Got it? right

RIGHT?


From Doug's post:

"By the way RBK, your signiture indicates that you are no better or different than those you rail against, and confirms that you are either unwilling or unable to rise above what you consider hypocritical, uninformed, and immature. "

It's apparently you who can't read Old Timer. What "Stalker Boy" said is, as always, irrelevant to the subject at hand and Doug proved nothing except that he shares your penchant for infantile repartee disguised as mature discussion. BTW, don't you have some women to beat up on?



This coming from a man who said "YOU'RE NOT ABB FANS!!! YOU"RE SCUM!"

 

____________________


 
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