Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Ticketmaster, AMEX, and legal scalpers

Ultimate Peach





Posts: 3475
(3476 all sites)
Registered: 3/10/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 10:45 AM
As much as Iíd like to complain about the unethical practices of these organizations, I feel like as long as I continue to make purchases from them, Iím contributing to the problem.

Iím I missing something? Have artists that HTW focuses on ever made statements about this practice? What about other artists? They canít be blind and I would think that some would at least acknowledge that their fans are being taken advantage of just to be able to see them perform.

I too tried to get 3/21 tickets the moment they were on sale. I was willing to pay the highest cost or sit in the balcony Ė nothing. But Ticketmaster was generous enough to let me purchase tickets from their resellers at outrageous costs. I passed.

I donít know what, if any influence artists have over these practices, but surely they have more say than you or me. Every time I make a TM purchases I really have check my morals about supporting this crap. Soon I wonít have to make that decision because the tickets are just going to be to darn expensive.


 

____________________
We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace. - Michael Franti

 
Replies:

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 10329
(10330 all sites)
Registered: 12/22/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 10:47 AM
Pearl Jam tried selling tickets outside of TM a few years back and did not do very well with it. Now there is another gorilla in the industry: Livenation, who will be the exclusive sales agent for LiveNation venues.

Until there is competition, or nobody buys tickets, this crap will cotninue. There is no evidence that the band cares, as long as the house is sold out.

 

____________________

We're all Bozos on this bus!

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29713
(29846 all sites)
Registered: 12/13/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 10:47 AM
It seems a tad askew...

 

____________________
Your neighborhood brewery and tap house - yes! we're now open! Like us on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/FranklinStreetBrewing

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13859
(13913 all sites)
Registered: 7/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 10:55 AM
In another year I might've groaned and just ponied up with the ransom, I mean the price that TicketsNow is trying to coerce. In the current economy, I have found myself "demoted" to part-time status at work, Not bad, considering that over 100 were let go all together.

How can they even dream that people have this kind of disposable income? I hope that TicketsNow ends up eating a lot of tickets. And no offense to the band, but I hope they see a lot of empty seats from the stage.

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 14557
(14557 all sites)
Registered: 3/28/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 10:59 AM
quote:
And no offense to the band, but I hope they see a lot of empty seats from the stage.
quote:


That is the only way this madness will ever end.

 

____________________
Pete

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8375
(8376 all sites)
Registered: 3/22/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:04 AM
This discussion seems to come up every Beacon season. I personally don't understand the belief that someone has the right to purchase something at one price, when the market for that item will bear so much more. It's a supply and demand equation that we accept in almost everything else, but tickets for our favorite act should somehow be excluded from this. I don't get the rationale.

It's certainly not the fault of the artists. Although, the best treatment of the fans I've seen was in last year's Mark Knopfler tour. The presale was held on his site and completely run by his management - no TM or Live Nation untill the general sale. Tickets in the first 15 or so rows were held for fan club seats, and only let go if they weren't bought by the time the general sale started. Most folks were thrilled with the results. I scored first of second row for four different shows.

But having described that, it's not what I expect as rule of thumb. If something has a line of people willing to pay $500 when I paid $100 for it, you can bet it will see a lot of transaction in the market. I'm fine with that. Just like most people don;t expect to pay sticker for a new car, I look at the face value as no guarantee.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1409
(1418 all sites)
Registered: 4/25/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:04 AM
quote:
quote:
And no offense to the band, but I hope they see a lot of empty seats from the stage.
quote:


That is the only way this madness will ever end.


No it won't.

The problem is the tickets are already sold to the scalpers and therefore the band will already have $ in hand even if half the seats are empty.

[Edited on 1/16/2009 by moemoe6434]

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 24390
(24565 all sites)
Registered: 3/31/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:06 AM
If people want it, they'll buy it
and the practice will continue

 

____________________


 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13859
(13913 all sites)
Registered: 7/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:07 AM
Fuljrich, if that's gonna be the case - why don't they just charge $136.00 for a Balcony seat to begin with? Why isn't that the opening, face-ticket price? Please do not make excuses for TicketMaster, TicketsNow or even the band!

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 14557
(14557 all sites)
Registered: 3/28/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:13 AM
quote:
This discussion seems to come up every Beacon season. I personally don't understand the belief that someone has the right to purchase something at one price, when the market for that item will bear so much more. It's a supply and demand equation that we accept in almost everything else, but tickets for our favorite act should somehow be excluded from this. I don't get the rationale.

It's certainly not the fault of the artists. Although, the best treatment of the fans I've seen was in last year's Mark Knopfler tour. The presale was held on his site and completely run by his management - no TM or Live Nation untill the general sale. Tickets in the first 15 or so rows were held for fan club seats, and only let go if they weren't bought by the time the general sale started. Most folks were thrilled with the results. I scored first of second row for four different shows.

But having described that, it's not what I expect as rule of thumb. If something has a line of people willing to pay $500 when I paid $100 for it, you can bet it will see a lot of transaction in the market. I'm fine with that. Just like most people don;t expect to pay sticker for a new car, I look at the face value as no guarantee.



If this is the case then why don't they just mark up the prices of all the tickets when they go on sale??? When you buy from the secondary market, the tickets don't have the marked up price on them they have the same price that they were supposed to be sold for. This is nothing but a scam. Period!!!

Milk and bread are in high demand. Should someone be able to buy up all of the milk and sell it for whatever people would spend for it in the secondary market??? By your logic this should be lagal. There would be many going without milk and bread.

 

____________________
Pete

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 18687
(19089 all sites)
Registered: 7/2/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:15 AM
quote:
This discussion seems to come up every Beacon season. I personally don't understand the belief that someone has the right to purchase something at one price, when the market for that item will bear so much more. It's a supply and demand equation that we accept in almost everything else, but tickets for our favorite act should somehow be excluded from this. I don't get the rationale.

It's certainly not the fault of the artists. Although, the best treatment of the fans I've seen was in last year's Mark Knopfler tour. The presale was held on his site and completely run by his management - no TM or Live Nation untill the general sale. Tickets in the first 15 or so rows were held for fan club seats, and only let go if they weren't bought by the time the general sale started. Most folks were thrilled with the results. I scored first of second row for four different shows.

But having described that, it's not what I expect as rule of thumb. If something has a line of people willing to pay $500 when I paid $100 for it, you can bet it will see a lot of transaction in the market. I'm fine with that. Just like most people don;t expect to pay sticker for a new car, I look at the face value as no guarantee.


I agree with a great deal of what you are saying - supply and demand is a simple aspect of economics and the price of things.
I think what most folks are groaning about is the artificial aspect of the supply side of the equation.
If no tickets are available at "sticker price" (i.e., during a sale to the general public) it artificially reduces the supply side, making the price increase side not a natural supply/price equation.

Having said that - I really don't know where all the tickets went, but I've been to 100's of ABB shows and never saw tickets gone the moment they went on sale....

 
E-Mail User

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 14557
(14557 all sites)
Registered: 3/28/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:27 AM
So let me get this right. Are you guys saying that anything being sold should fall under the same thought process or just concert tickets.

SHOULD THE SUPERMARKET BE ABLE TO HOLD BACK HALF OF THEIR INVENTORY AND MARK UP THE PRICES FOR THOSE WHO DIDN'T GET TO THE SUPERMARKET BY A CERTAIN TIME. Your logic makes little sense IMO.

 

____________________
Pete

 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 590
(590 all sites)
Registered: 1/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:32 AM
quote:
quote:
This discussion seems to come up every Beacon season. I personally don't understand the belief that someone has the right to purchase something at one price, when the market for that item will bear so much more. It's a supply and demand equation that we accept in almost everything else, but tickets for our favorite act should somehow be excluded from this. I don't get the rationale.

It's certainly not the fault of the artists. Although, the best treatment of the fans I've seen was in last year's Mark Knopfler tour. The presale was held on his site and completely run by his management - no TM or Live Nation untill the general sale. Tickets in the first 15 or so rows were held for fan club seats, and only let go if they weren't bought by the time the general sale started. Most folks were thrilled with the results. I scored first of second row for four different shows.

But having described that, it's not what I expect as rule of thumb. If something has a line of people willing to pay $500 when I paid $100 for it, you can bet it will see a lot of transaction in the market. I'm fine with that. Just like most people don;t expect to pay sticker for a new car, I look at the face value as no guarantee.


I agree with a great deal of what you are saying - supply and demand is a simple aspect of economics and the price of things.
I think what most folks are groaning about is the artificial aspect of the supply side of the equation.
If no tickets are available at "sticker price" (i.e., during a sale to the general public) it artificially reduces the supply side, making the price increase side not a natural supply/price equation.

Having said that - I really don't know where all the tickets went, but I've been to 100's of ABB shows and never saw tickets gone the moment they went on sale....


Well said Benjamin!
We now have the Dolan factor. It was said upon the takeover of the Beacon that the ticket prices would not skyrocket to cover the renovation costs. However they're not allowing them to be purchased @ regular prices.For all we know MSG/Cablevision may be a major shareholder of Ticketbastard

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 16576
(16858 all sites)
Registered: 12/24/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:32 AM
The Band certainly could do something about it if they wanted to change things.

I had no problem getting tickets in 2007. I believe it has gotten worse this year. If they add more shows, we still won't get to celebrate with our friends who did get tickets for the 20th or 21st. Something is wrong with this picture.

Loyal fans do have a right to buy tickets at face value. It just isn't always recognized.

 

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3475
(3476 all sites)
Registered: 3/10/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:35 AM
quote:
So let me get this right. Are you guys saying that anything being sold should fall under the same thought process or just concert tickets.

SHOULD THE SUPERMARKET BE ABLE TO HOLD BACK HALF OF THEIR INVENTORY AND MARK UP THE PRICES FOR THOSE WHO DIDN'T GET TO THE SUPERMARKET BY A CERTAIN TIME. Your logic makes little sense IMO.


Since TM is the reseller and the auctioneer, clearly they are holding a block of tickets for this very purpose. How is this legal? During the pre-sale, when no more pre-sale tickets were available, resale and auction tickets already were available - through TM companies.

This would be like the supermarket holding back half of the milk stock to inflate or sell to the highest bidder, not just because you didn't get there on time.

 

____________________
We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace. - Michael Franti

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8375
(8376 all sites)
Registered: 3/22/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:36 AM
quote:
Milk and bread are in high demand.
Not high enough to cause prices to go up, or not few enough (low supply) to do the same. The example is a poor one from an economics point of view. There are dozens and dozens of companies producing these products, competing with each other for shelf space at retainlers all over the country. Not exactly a limited commodity. But, watch what happens if the supply lines get cut in a city or regionally. Prices will skyrocket within days because demand is high and supply is dried up. If you don't think stores and producers would charge more if they could, you're kidding yourself.

Tickets are a unique item, in that it's a limited, one-use experience. Demand varies widely by city. If you want to get upset - kinda like being upset at the sun because it's a big yellow ball in the sky - but if you want to be upset, direct it at the band. They're the ones deciding to hold all these shows in one of the most expensive and populated cities. That's pretty much a guarantee of a secondary market. Of course, being upset at that is foolish too...

It's economics, pure and simple. You don't expect to buy a house in Beverly Hills for $150,000, do you? Then why assume there's a "right" to buy at face value on tickets? For something highly desired, it boils down to luck - luck of getting in early enough to secure what you want.

But it's not really luck when the ticket brokers have computer programs and banks of callers competing with you. There again, you could get mad at the band for using a service so universally villified and abused as TM, but you're wasting you time there.

Even without TM and all its problems, if demand is there and a market exists for making many "x" profit on an item, then it gonna happen whether you like it or not. Going back to your bread and milk example; no one's getting rich standing outside the grocery stores selling those items at higher prices. There's no demand. But ABB tickets at the Beacon? That's another story....

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3020
(3019 all sites)
Registered: 12/17/2008
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:47 AM
quote:
quote:
So let me get this right. Are you guys saying that anything being sold should fall under the same thought process or just concert tickets.

SHOULD THE SUPERMARKET BE ABLE TO HOLD BACK HALF OF THEIR INVENTORY AND MARK UP THE PRICES FOR THOSE WHO DIDN'T GET TO THE SUPERMARKET BY A CERTAIN TIME. Your logic makes little sense IMO.


Since TM is the reseller and the auctioneer, clearly they are holding a block of tickets for this very purpose. How is this legal? During the pre-sale, when no more pre-sale tickets were available, resale and auction tickets already were available - through TM companies.

This would be like the supermarket holding back half of the milk stock to inflate or sell to the highest bidder, not just because you didn't get there on time.


That's the part that drives me crazy is when the seller is holding back tickets at retail and scalping them for a ton more than face value.


 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 574
(574 all sites)
Registered: 12/30/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:50 AM
Shouldn't there be around 25,000 tickets available to begin with(10 nights at about 2,500 seats)? I just can't believe there weren't any tickets available on this morning's general sale even if you're applying this supply and demand theory.
Something sure smells around here.

T

[Edited on 1/16/2009 by thetrees]

 

____________________


all of us sleep...how many of us dream?

 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2721
(2727 all sites)
Registered: 8/1/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:53 AM
They should use the Deads ticketing system. Its the best.

 

____________________
"PAIN HEALS...CHICKS DIG SCARS...GLORY LASTS FOREVER!"


 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 14557
(14557 all sites)
Registered: 3/28/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:58 AM
quote:
quote:
Milk and bread are in high demand.
Not high enough to cause prices to go up, or not few enough (low supply) to do the same. The example is a poor one from an economics point of view. There are dozens and dozens of companies producing these products, competing with each other for shelf space at retainlers all over the country. Not exactly a limited commodity. But, watch what happens if the supply lines get cut in a city or regionally. Prices will skyrocket within days because demand is high and supply is dried up. If you don't think stores and producers would charge more if they could, you're kidding yourself.

Tickets are a unique item, in that it's a limited, one-use experience. Demand varies widely by city. If you want to get upset - kinda like being upset at the sun because it's a big yellow ball in the sky - but if you want to be upset, direct it at the band. They're the ones deciding to hold all these shows in one of the most expensive and populated cities. That's pretty much a guarantee of a secondary market. Of course, being upset at that is foolish too...

It's economics, pure and simple. You don't expect to buy a house in Beverly Hills for $150,000, do you? Then why assume there's a "right" to buy at face value on tickets? For something highly desired, it boils down to luck - luck of getting in early enough to secure what you want.

But it's not really luck when the ticket brokers have computer programs and banks of callers competing with you. There again, you could get mad at the band for using a service so universally villified and abused as TM, but you're wasting you time there.

Even without TM and all its problems, if demand is there and a market exists for making many "x" profit on an item, then it gonna happen whether you like it or not. Going back to your bread and milk example; no one's getting rich standing outside the grocery stores selling those items at higher prices. There's no demand. But ABB tickets at the Beacon? That's another story....



But if they took half of the milk inventory off the shelves from the get go the demand would go through the roof. Ticketbastard are holding back their own inventory in order to artificially increase demand. It is a scam no matter how you try to explain it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

 

____________________
Pete

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1457
(1464 all sites)
Registered: 1/1/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:59 AM
Fujirich is certainly consistent. He's so mired in capitalist dogma that he will defend the right to shaft even if he is the shaftee. Got to admire a man prepared to stand by his principles.

 

____________________
You get SOMETHING out of it every night!- Mike "Pickles" Hale

 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 864
(864 all sites)
Registered: 2/8/2008
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 11:59 AM
Thats ok.
Just go to the venue the night of the show.
Except for maybe the possible 3/26 show, you'll be able to get in for $50 to $75 bucks, minus the service charges.

Of course your not guaranteed to score, but like most junkies, an ABB fan will be able to get in the doors for about that 90% of the time. And with this economy, I likes my odds this year.....

Always a reason folks unload tix......

 

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3475
(3476 all sites)
Registered: 3/10/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 12:12 PM
quote:
Thats ok.
Just go to the venue the night of the show.
Except for maybe the possible 3/26 show, you'll be able to get in for $50 to $75 bucks, minus the service charges.

Of course your not guaranteed to score, but like most junkies, an ABB fan will be able to get in the doors for about that 90% of the time. And with this economy, I likes my odds this year.....

Always a reason folks unload tix......


I agree with this logic. But a bunch of my sisters were gonna fly in for shows. You can't put out that kinda $ and hope to get a ticket.

 

____________________
We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace. - Michael Franti

 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2262
(2262 all sites)
Registered: 4/14/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 12:19 PM
Suppy and Demand is the economic principle at work here, however some of the analogies do not represent this issue at all. If you were to lump the Brothers into the genric concert catagory, then the supermarktet analogy works because if you needed milk you would go buy it at a store that sold it regardless of brand etc. The Brothers are playing ten shows in one place for their 40th anniversary. There are 2800 seats thus 28000 available for all shows, 5600 for 20th and 21st, the last two nights where demand increases ans supply is fixed. This inelastic supply will drive prices up in any free market. The fact the band's management provided some early tickests to fans through Fan Club and Amex causes some elasticity but not enough to provide all the want tix for 20th and 21st. The public onsale for the remaining tix for these two nights is surprising that none were essentially available suggesting that there was no supply for the public at all and all the remaining tix went to corporate resellers. Whether this was done with the knowledge of the bands management or not is the question. Of course there are many partial solutions, but there will NEVER be a solution to suffice everyone until scalping tix in any form, for profit is totally illegal and there are more than two players in the tix selling and venues area. The sellers have a virtual monopoly along with the venue owners. If bands want to play in these venues they are subject to the terms of owners. Dave Matthews is about the best I have seen but at the end of the day if ya really want to go go gptta pay.

 

____________________
Up in the Great White North Eatin' A Peach For Peace!!
http://www.myspace.com/fatbottomdaddy

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8375
(8376 all sites)
Registered: 3/22/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/16/2009 at 12:48 PM
quote:
Fujirich is certainly consistent. He's so mired in capitalist dogma that he will defend the right to shaft even if he is the shaftee. Got to admire a man prepared to stand by his principles.
More like mired in reality geordielad. Accept it or not, it's been happening for years. If market forces apply to most everything we buy, so why not this?

quote:
But if they took half of the milk inventory off the shelves from the get go the demand would go through the roof. Ticketbastard are holding back their own inventory in order to artificially increase demand. It is a scam no matter how you try to explain it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Certainly correct if true sixty8. Do you have proof of this hold-back by TM?

We'd also have to focus frustration on the band and management, who hold back a percentage of every show for their own uses. I understand from past years that's something on the order of 10% of the seats, given how small the Beacon is. Wanna bet some of those find their way to the secondary market?

Hey, I don't "like" this any more than the rest of you. I loved what Knopfler's management did for his last tour - best fan treatment I've ever seen. The ABB has never shown an interest in doing anything other than what we've seen, and with time that has become a well-known profit opportunity for the secondary market guys. Its just is what it is, and no one in a decision making capacity seems willing to change it.






[Edited on 1/16/2009 by Fujirich]

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 
<<  1    2  >>  


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software


Privacy | Terms of Service
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com