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Author: Subject: Will we ever see an end to mandatory sentencing??

Peach Extraordinaire





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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 03:51 PM
im jus curios to what other peoples thoughts are
our how often it crosses youre mind

what would it take for the govt to stop it?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 04:07 PM
Mandatory sentencing as it applies to what?

Violent crimes? Im all for it.

Sex crimes? Im all for it.


 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 04:09 PM
quote:
Mandatory sentencing as it applies to what?

Violent crimes? Im all for it.

Sex crimes? Im all for it.





Substances?

 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 04:16 PM
quote:
Mandatory sentencing as it applies to what?

Violent crimes? Im all for it.

Sex crimes? Im all for it.
ditto

 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 04:25 PM
quote:
quote:
Mandatory sentencing as it applies to what?

Violent crimes? Im all for it.

Sex crimes? Im all for it.
ditto



me too

 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 04:32 PM
quote:
quote:
Mandatory sentencing as it applies to what?

Violent crimes? Im all for it.

Sex crimes? Im all for it.





Substances?


Depends...dealing/processing/manufacturing? absolutely. Using? not so much.

 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 04:38 PM
you cant do away with one wthout doing away with others



 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 04:57 PM
quote:
you cant do away with one wthout doing away with others






What?

Sure you can. Its a matter of degrees. Someone getting a mandatory sentence for possession of marijuana is stupid. Someone getting mandatory sentencing for murder is perfectly acceptable. We need an overhaul of our CJ system. Mandatory sentences for those that commit crimes with guns, mandatory sentences for violent/sex crimes etc. Stop giving parole and probation to violent offenders etc.

 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 06:29 PM
quote:
Depends...dealing/processing/manufacturing? absolutely.


Growing??/ Bullsh*t.


Mandatory sentences are bullsh*t and give the starch shirts more power than they should have. That is why we pay judges, to weigh the details of every case on its merits.

[Edited on 11/21/2008 by DerekFromCincinnati]

 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 07:01 PM
quote:
quote:
Depends...dealing/processing/manufacturing? absolutely.


Growing??/ Bullsh*t.


Mandatory sentences are bullsh*t and give the starch shirts more power than they should have. That is why we pay judges, to weigh the details of every case on its merits.

[Edited on 11/21/2008 by DerekFromCincinnati]


And New York has the worst in the country thanks to former gov. Nelson Rockefeller.

We could half empty our prisons with the non-violent drug offenders.

 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 08:32 PM
sex offenses,,,,mandatory death 15 minits or less
murder,,,,,,,,,,,,mandatory death 15 minits or less
stuff wat involve people gittin hurt,,,,,,,,,,,,,life
stuff wat involve people gittin killed,,,,,,,,,,,death penalty,,,,,,,,see above
ANYTHANG involvin children,,,,,,,,,,,death penalty 10 minits or less
ANYTHANG involvin the elderly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,death penalty 10 minits or less
all this is bein said providin they is absolute without a doubt proof of guilt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 08:43 PM
quote:
quote:
Depends...dealing/processing/manufacturing? absolutely.


Growing??/ Bullsh*t.


Mandatory sentences are bullsh*t and give the starch shirts more power than they should have. That is why we pay judges, to weigh the details of every case on its merits.




Let the record reflect that I agree w/ Derek in the WP. Most judges do a good job in sentencing, and minimums are usually poorly considered pandering by legislators to appear tough on crime. Every case is different. In the real world, they can be avoided by fair prosecutors that might take a plea deal on a leser offense to avoid a draconion result.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 08:53 PM
Yet we have policy makers (Darth Cheney) that own companies who build and run private prisons.

To house the offenders of their drug policies.

Who loses money with reformed drug laws?

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 08:59 PM
quote:
sex offenses,,,,mandatory death 15 minits or less
murder,,,,,,,,,,,,mandatory death 15 minits or less
stuff wat involve people gittin hurt,,,,,,,,,,,,,life
stuff wat involve people gittin killed,,,,,,,,,,,death penalty,,,,,,,,see above
ANYTHANG involvin children,,,,,,,,,,,death penalty 10 minits or less
ANYTHANG involvin the elderly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,death penalty 10 minits or less
all this is bein said providin they is absolute without a doubt proof of guilt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,





I like the way you think reneed!

 

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  posted on 11/21/2008 at 10:10 PM
I agree with Derek and Brock.

Punishment has grown into a huge industry in this country. Prisons in California are being privatized, and the employees are union. The more people that need to be punished, the better for business. I don't like where this is going.

 

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  posted on 11/22/2008 at 12:09 AM
generally against legislating the sentencing phase of any trial.

That should be the province of Judges to judge on a case by case basis.
Let them give the harsh sentences where violence is done , particularly to
smaller and helpless victims. Let the Judges send non violent offenders to parole and
home detention. Let Judges be Judges.

Mandatory sentencing gives prosecutors too much power.
It becomes a game of coping a plea to avoid long sentences. THe Judges are just clerks signing off
on the deals.

Doesn't seem like Justice.



 

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  posted on 11/22/2008 at 08:42 AM
quote:
quote:
Depends...dealing/processing/manufacturing? absolutely.


Growing??/ Bullsh*t.


Mandatory sentences are bullsh*t and give the starch shirts more power than they should have. That is why we pay judges, to weigh the details of every case on its merits.

[Edited on 11/21/2008 by DerekFromCincinnati]


As usual, you presume to know more than you actually do. I dont give two shiats about Marijuana (notice the distinct lack of the word "grow" above). Im much more concerned with Meth, Cocaine, Heroin, Ice, etc.

So, you dont think people that commit violent crimes or sex crimes should get mandatory sentences? How about child molesters? Probation ok for that? Work release from the county jail?

 

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  posted on 11/22/2008 at 09:36 AM
quote:

So, you dont think people that commit violent crimes or sex crimes should get mandatory sentences? How about child molesters? Probation ok for that? Work release from the county jail?


this is the "when did you stop beating your wife?" type of trollish questioning.

Just because one disagrees with mandatory sentencing doesn't mean he thinks they should get the sentence
that you have suggested. He may in fact want harsher penalties than what the mandatory laws require.

I would have experienced Judges decide those kind of sentences.

These mandatory sentences are just so the Politicians can say they are tough on crimes.

It should be a Judge deciding sentencing, not politicians desperate for votes. Mandatory sentencing ties the hands of Justice.

IMO









[Edited on 11/22/2008 by spacemonkey]

 

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  posted on 11/22/2008 at 10:33 AM
quote:
Mandatory sentencing as it applies to what?

Violent crimes? Im all for it.

Sex crimes? Im all for it.
Hey, Squatch,

I agree 100%.

In 1994 I was on a jury that found Troy Bradley Bloom guilty of his third violent rape; he got 20 years.

His was the first Minnesota trial where the prosecution could introduce DNA evidence, which absolutely nailed him.

FFI: http://info.doc.state.mn.us/publicviewer/Inmate.asp?OID=115845 .



Imagine coming home (as a woman) to your darkened kitchen and finding this creep there, with a knife, to welcome you.

In 1996 I was a prosecution witness and helped convict Howard Thomas Ledden of molesting a four-year-old girl. When she testified herself, her mom and I were in the courtroom so she'd feel safe. Two of the jurors had tears in their eyes; one looked as if she wanted to climb over the low railing to dispense justice on the spot. It took them less than an hour to convict him on three separate counts.

When the young lady (18 in March, 2009) told me, I had serious thoughts about killing him violently and painfully, since the girl is my goddaughter, and as close to flesh and blood as I have. Her mother told me that had I connected by phone the first time I tried to, she would have knifed Ledden in his sleep. It's impossible to express the incredible rage a parent feels when this kind of thing happens.

The judge and prosecutor took a month to research the maximum sentence they could give him: 26 years based on consecutive stints for the three charges.

Did I mention that he was her stepfather? Some people's moral barrel has no bottom.

FFI: http://info.doc.state.mn.us/publicviewer/Inmate.asp?OID=189896 .



I'm proud that I was able to contribute to both of their removals from active society.

Billastro

[Edited on 11/22/2008 by Billastro]

 

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  posted on 11/22/2008 at 11:13 AM
I'm gonna agree with Derek, Brock and John on this one...

I'm personally for harsher penalties (decided by a judge) when there is irrefutable evidence. Other cases can need more flexibility.

I went to college with a guy who had dated a girl from the time he was a high school junior and she was a high school freshman. Her parents never liked him and the summer after he graduated and turned 18 the parents pressed charges on him for being with an underage girl. They had been dating for two years and he was convicted. The judge gave him probation but due to state laws he was branded a sexual offender. He is required to have his picture on the sheriffs website and to notify neighbors of his conviction (possibly for life, but I'm not clear on that one). I think that's BS. Due to him being convicted the judge could not look at the circumstances, but was required to dish out this "justice". Maybe you think 2.5 years is to great an age difference, and maybe you don't. I just don't see how he should be shackled with a mandatory sentence under these circumstances.

Also, I don't think this is even close to being a majority of cases. I do think I'd rather let an innocent man go free and let the judge decide what convicted criminals deserve.

 

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  posted on 11/22/2008 at 04:07 PM
quote:
As usual, you presume to know more than you actually do. I dont give two shiats about Marijuana (notice the distinct lack of the word "grow" above). Im much more concerned with Meth, Cocaine, Heroin, Ice, etc.

So, you dont think people that commit violent crimes or sex crimes should get mandatory sentences? How about child molesters? Probation ok for that? Work release from the county jail?


Once again, you're an idiot. You are the reason why I am right. How do you go from giving prosecutors and dolts like yourself too much power to saying I am weak on any of those issues?? Here is a clue - judges are elected to make these decisions. Period. Violent criminals and sex offenders should get rung up huge. However there are folks who get rung up for violent crimes that are defending themselves in a pre-emptive way yet the cops and the prosecutor doesn't see it that way and it should be to the judges discretion how harsh the penalty should be. Plus, if you get two priors and then get life imprisonment for stealing a pack of gum, that is lame. Two lowlifes with nothing to lose try and pin something on somebody else for other reasons - if I'm going down, you're going down, there should be some judge discretion there. Plus, I don't trust cops enough who know they could work it so somebody they don't like gets "strike three" life term for a simple offense that they could "make happen" (cough, cough) - no way. Look at the attitudes that some in law enforcement have (cough, once again). That tells me all I need to know. Judges are elected to make these decisions.

DH

 

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  posted on 11/22/2008 at 08:13 PM
quote:
this is the "when did you stop beating your wife?" type of trollish questioning.


Really? How so? I deal with these animals on a daily basis. They dont understand beyond black/white, life/death. The guy that murders someone is going to re-offend. You can either let him keep committing crimes or you can put him away for say, 20 years, and help lower your crime rate. And for the record, there are a large number of sex offenders on our county's work release program, many of them high risk. High Risk offenders for the state of Texas are defined as criminal, sexual predators that will (no question) sexually re-offend. Now, please tell me how not having a mandatory sentence for them is a bad thing.

quote:
Just because one disagrees with mandatory sentencing doesn't mean he thinks they should get the sentence that you have suggested.


No shiat? Did you by chance notice the question marks in my post?

quote:
He may in fact want harsher penalties than what the mandatory laws require.


He may. However, this is Derek. He will disagree with me simply on principle regardless of the issue or any position I might have. Even when I have agreed with him in the past, he still finds a way to 'not agree'. Thats just how it is.


quote:
I would have experienced Judges decide those kind of sentences.


Then I guess we should get rid of juries...Judges are perfectly capable of making those decisions too. And what happens when you get a loony judge or one that doesnt believe in mandatory sentencing for violent crimes and you happened to have your childs murderer being tried in his court? Is probation/parole ok with you? At what point can the victims and their families have some closure?

quote:
These mandatory sentences are just so the Politicians can say they are tough on crimes.


Judges are elected. What would keep them from making a political statement of their own to ensure their re-election? Thats why the law is written at the state level and removes the arbitrary notion.

quote:
It should be a Judge deciding sentencing, not politicians desperate for votes. Mandatory sentencing ties the hands of Justice.

IMO


Tying the hands of justice huh? Well, where do you want to start? How about uninformed juries? How about legal requirements forcing a victim of a violent sexual assault to have to go through the humiliation of taking the stand? How about the actions of the attorneys themselves? Discovery, suppressed evidence etc. No, I know enough Judges to know that they themselves have entirely too much power and absolutely no accountability for the decisions they make (judicial immunity). Maybe if you could mandate removal of the judicial immunity, it might work, but until then, no.

[Edited on 11/23/2008 by SquatchTexas]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/22/2008 at 08:36 PM
quote:
Once again, you're an idiot. You are the reason why I am right. How do you go from giving prosecutors and dolts like yourself too much power to saying I am weak on any of those issues??


Hey genius, please tell me how I have any power in sentencing. Go ahead...

quote:
Here is a clue - judges are elected to make these decisions. Period. Violent criminals and sex offenders should get rung up huge. However there are folks who get rung up for violent crimes that are defending themselves in a pre-emptive way yet the cops and the prosecutor doesn't see it that way and it should be to the judges discretion how harsh the penalty should be.


Speaking of clues, let me give you one: Cops wear uniforms, not robes. We determine if the elements of a crime have been met to further determine whether or not an arrest should/has to be made so that a JUDGE and/or a jury can make the further call on his guilt or innocence. Prior to all that, every arrestee that goes before a magistrate (judge), right after being arrested here has their case evaluated by the District Attorneys office to determine whether or not the person arrested met the elements of the offense for which they were arrested. Sometimes they dont, most of the time they do. So, as you can see, its a tad more complicated than blaming the cops or the prosecutor outright. To recap; the guy arrested today sees a judge TODAY to determine if his case goes further.

What the hell does the judge determining sentencing have to do with whether or not an innocent person gets caught up in a bad criminal charge? How is it any better if the guy does 5 years at the discretion of the judge or some other arbitrary amount of time determined by law? Again, you need to pull your head out.

quote:
Plus, if you get two priors and then get life imprisonment for stealing a pack of gum, that is lame.


Its a little more complicated than that, but if you dont like the laws, stop wasting time here and write your rep to get the laws changed.

Two lowlifes with nothing to lose try and pin something on somebody else for other reasons - if I'm going down, you're going down, there should be some judge discretion there.


And there is. Its called having an attorney. Mandatory sentencing is simply to ensure that hardcore criminals are not back out on the street in a year after murdering someone. You arent remembering that mandatory sentencing comes AFTER the finding of guilt, not before. Beyond that, even with mandatory sentencing, the inmate has the right to appeal, petition for new trial, Supreme Court etc.

quote:
Plus, I don't trust cops enough who know they could work it so somebody they don't like gets "strike three" life term for a simple offense that they could "make happen" (cough, cough) - no way.


I sincerely do not blame you. I dont trust them myself. Look at OJ. He was absolutely guilty as hell, but that didnt stop the cops from planting evidence and lying.

quote:
Look at the attitudes that some in law enforcement have (cough, once again). That tells me all I need to know. Judges are elected to make these decisions.

DH


And again, the cops dont make the decisions that determine the sentencing we are discussing. The judge does based on the sentencing guidelines on the books. So whats the problem?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/22/2008 at 08:40 PM
quote:
I'm gonna agree with Derek, Brock and John on this one...

I'm personally for harsher penalties (decided by a judge) when there is irrefutable evidence. Other cases can need more flexibility.

I went to college with a guy who had dated a girl from the time he was a high school junior and she was a high school freshman. Her parents never liked him and the summer after he graduated and turned 18 the parents pressed charges on him for being with an underage girl. They had been dating for two years and he was convicted. The judge gave him probation but due to state laws he was branded a sexual offender. He is required to have his picture on the sheriffs website and to notify neighbors of his conviction (possibly for life, but I'm not clear on that one). I think that's BS. Due to him being convicted the judge could not look at the circumstances, but was required to dish out this "justice". Maybe you think 2.5 years is to great an age difference, and maybe you don't. I just don't see how he should be shackled with a mandatory sentence under these circumstances.

Also, I don't think this is even close to being a majority of cases. I do think I'd rather let an innocent man go free and let the judge decide what convicted criminals deserve.



Just a point here: Most mandatory sentencing laws are not so broad based. In otherwords, theres a difference in the case of some guy taking a piss on the side of the road vs. the guy jacking his junk in front of kids for the sexual gratification (I can give you some examples if this discussion moves forward). The laws take these things into account. That said, there are most certainly laws on the books in every state where people get screwed with the verbiage and how its interpreted by THE JUDGE and his instructions to the jury is what has to be followed. This is why we have an appeals process and a Supreme Court.

 

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  posted on 11/23/2008 at 01:37 AM
quote:
quote:
this is the "when did you stop beating your wife?" type of trollish questioning.


Really? How so?


are you really this dense?

I explained it once already

Because you equate opposition to mandatory sentencing with letting child molesters out on probation.


grow up.



 

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