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Author: Subject: Soviet style communism

Ultimate Peach





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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:07 PM
I'm so sick of the far right saying that Obama is going to bring soviet style communism to the US. Under George W Bush the US has (a) started spying on it's own people, (b) started holding prisoners without trial, (c) started torturing prisoners, (d) used scare tactics in order to keep power, (e) provided for the advancement for the wealthy while the poor suffered, (d) invaded another country for nothing more than political reasons, (e) are spending money at an unsustainable pace without ant hope of increasing revenue, and (f) has moved the US toward a policy of isolation. Honestly, this sounds more like Soviet style communism than anything any previous president has given us.

Further, it is not always true that lower taxes is better for business. You might notice that business did very well under the Clinton policy. Those big tax cuts that Bush gave certainly did not help the economy, and businesses have certainly had less money in their pocket over the last 8 years even with the lower tax rates then they did when the economy was healthy. Do I like to pay higher taxes, no - but really what I want is more money in my account at the end of the month. I would gladly pay a 60% tax rate if I can make $200,000 due to a healthy economy than pay a 10% tax rate on $60,000 because the economy is so bad that customers can't afford my products. If your ideology that lower taxes are more important than making more money, fine, but remember the real reason that the soviet union fell is that it's economy was unsustainable.

 
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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:15 PM
quote:
I'm so sick of the far right saying that Obama is going to bring soviet style communism to the US. Under George W Bush the US has (a) started spying on it's own people, (b) started holding prisoners without trial, (c) started torturing prisoners, (d) used scare tactics in order to keep power, (e) provided for the advancement for the wealthy while the poor suffered, (d) invaded another country for nothing more than political reasons, (e) are spending money at an unsustainable pace without ant hope of increasing revenue, and (f) has moved the US toward a policy of isolation. Honestly, this sounds more like Soviet style communism than anything any previous president has given us.

Further, it is not always true that lower taxes is better for business. You might notice that business did very well under the Clinton policy. Those big tax cuts that Bush gave certainly did not help the economy, and businesses have certainly had less money in their pocket over the last 8 years even with the lower tax rates then they did when the economy was healthy. Do I like to pay higher taxes, no - but really what I want is more money in my account at the end of the month. I would gladly pay a 60% tax rate if I can make $200,000 due to a healthy economy than pay a 10% tax rate on $60,000 because the economy is so bad that customers can't afford my products. If your ideology that lower taxes are more important than making more money, fine, but remember the real reason that the soviet union fell is that it's economy was unsustainable.


We never said Soviet style communism, we said European style socialism. Don't put words in our mouth and them berate us for what we didn't say.

Business did very well under Clinton because we had an UNSUSTAINABLE dot-com economy in those days and there had been no 9/11. You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:23 PM
If your not implying communism, then using the word Comrade is certainly not implying British style socialism.
 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:24 PM
quote:
We never said Soviet style communism, we said European style socialism. Don't put words in our mouth and them berate us for what we didn't say.




Is that why you continue to throw around Karl Marx, Lenin & Stalin, peasant? It appears you have been the one throwing Soviet Communisim around along with a few of your talk radio ants.

 

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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:28 PM
quote:
quote:
We never said Soviet style communism, we said European style socialism. Don't put words in our mouth and them berate us for what we didn't say.




Is that why you continue to throw around Karl Marx, Lenin & Stalin, peasant? It appears you have been the one throwing Soviet Communisim around along with a few of your talk radio ants.


Marx was a socialist, comrade. Lenin & Stalin get trotted out when our 'best and brightest' try to shout down the truth in a thug-like KGB fashion, whatever the discussion. No one ever accused BarryO of being a Soviet style communist. Frankly he's too much of a wuss.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:30 PM
quote:
quote:
I'm so sick of the far right saying that Obama is going to bring soviet style communism to the US. Under George W Bush the US has (a) started spying on it's own people, (b) started holding prisoners without trial, (c) started torturing prisoners, (d) used scare tactics in order to keep power, (e) provided for the advancement for the wealthy while the poor suffered, (d) invaded another country for nothing more than political reasons, (e) are spending money at an unsustainable pace without ant hope of increasing revenue, and (f) has moved the US toward a policy of isolation. Honestly, this sounds more like Soviet style communism than anything any previous president has given us.

Further, it is not always true that lower taxes is better for business. You might notice that business did very well under the Clinton policy. Those big tax cuts that Bush gave certainly did not help the economy, and businesses have certainly had less money in their pocket over the last 8 years even with the lower tax rates then they did when the economy was healthy. Do I like to pay higher taxes, no - but really what I want is more money in my account at the end of the month. I would gladly pay a 60% tax rate if I can make $200,000 due to a healthy economy than pay a 10% tax rate on $60,000 because the economy is so bad that customers can't afford my products. If your ideology that lower taxes are more important than making more money, fine, but remember the real reason that the soviet union fell is that it's economy was unsustainable.


We never said Soviet style communism, we said European style socialism. Don't put words in our mouth and them berate us for what we didn't say.

Business did very well under Clinton because we had an UNSUSTAINABLE dot-com economy in those days and there had been no 9/11. You're comparing apples to oranges.


Ah, the dot-com bubble grew an burst in the final two years of his second term....Meanwhile, the economy hummed along quite nicely for most of his two terms. Another characteristic of Soviet style Communism is re-writing history and/or lying about it altogether.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:30 PM
quote:
I'm so sick of the far right saying that Obama is going to bring soviet style communism to the US.
Would you care to back this up with references as to who is saying such a thing?

quote:
(e) are spending money at an unsustainable pace without ant hope of increasing revenue,
Why is it that not a single politician can bring themselves to utter the phrase "cut government" in order to bring government spending in line with income? Every home and business in America has to live by that rule, why not the government?

quote:
Those big tax cuts that Bush gave certainly did not help the economy, and businesses have certainly had less money in their pocket over the last 8 years even with the lower tax rates then they did when the economy was healthy.
Something far too often forgotten was that the marginal tax rates for the poor and middle class were lowered as part of Bush's tax cut. You may also be forgetting the serious economic slump that occurred following 9/11. The Bush tax cuts went a long way to helping the economy during that period. True enough; ridiculously easy credit from the Federal Reserve also helped and created problems we're dealing with now. But the Federal Reserve are a bunch of bankers, and do whatever they want separate and apart from government.

Do you really think that letting the Bush tax cuts expire, plus raising business taxes, capital gains taxes, and taxes on the wealthy will create a pro-business environment?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:33 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm so sick of the far right saying that Obama is going to bring soviet style communism to the US. Under George W Bush the US has (a) started spying on it's own people, (b) started holding prisoners without trial, (c) started torturing prisoners, (d) used scare tactics in order to keep power, (e) provided for the advancement for the wealthy while the poor suffered, (d) invaded another country for nothing more than political reasons, (e) are spending money at an unsustainable pace without ant hope of increasing revenue, and (f) has moved the US toward a policy of isolation. Honestly, this sounds more like Soviet style communism than anything any previous president has given us.

Further, it is not always true that lower taxes is better for business. You might notice that business did very well under the Clinton policy. Those big tax cuts that Bush gave certainly did not help the economy, and businesses have certainly had less money in their pocket over the last 8 years even with the lower tax rates then they did when the economy was healthy. Do I like to pay higher taxes, no - but really what I want is more money in my account at the end of the month. I would gladly pay a 60% tax rate if I can make $200,000 due to a healthy economy than pay a 10% tax rate on $60,000 because the economy is so bad that customers can't afford my products. If your ideology that lower taxes are more important than making more money, fine, but remember the real reason that the soviet union fell is that it's economy was unsustainable.


We never said Soviet style communism, we said European style socialism. Don't put words in our mouth and them berate us for what we didn't say.

Business did very well under Clinton because we had an UNSUSTAINABLE dot-com economy in those days and there had been no 9/11. You're comparing apples to oranges.


Ah, the dot-com bubble grew an burst in the final two years of his second term....Meanwhile, the economy hummed along quite nicely for most of his two terms. Another characteristic of Soviet style Communism is re-writing history and/or lying about it altogether.


Not at all. By the end of Clinton's second term we were headed into a recession.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:35 PM
quote:
I'm so sick of the far right


In a place where little is ever qualified, I'd say that 2112 did a fine job here, and it's nice to know that RBK considers himself far right. That's good to know.

Continue.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:43 PM
quote:
quote:
I'm so sick of the far right


In a place where little is ever qualified, I'd say that 2112 did a fine job here, and it's nice to know that RBK considers himself far right. That's good to know.

Continue.


Proudly so. Isn't it obvious? Is it a problem?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:45 PM
quote:
Would you care to back this up with references as to who is saying such a thing?


http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off &q=Obama+communism&btnG=Search

Have fun.

quote:
Why is it that not a single politician can bring themselves to utter the phrase "cut government" in order to bring government spending in line with income? Every home and business in America has to live by that rule, why not the government?


Obama has specifically stated that he wants to cut programs that are not working. What specific government programs would you like to see cut?

quote:
Do you really think that letting the Bush tax cuts expire, plus raising business taxes, capital gains taxes, and taxes on the wealthy will create a pro-business environment?


So, why then havent they been pro-business with all of these things in place? Have you seen the unemployment numbers today? Its a fallacy to say that if we take away all the gravy for businesses, they wont hire/expand/whatever. They have had these benefits for years now and we certainly arent seeing any benefit from it so maybe its time to give a break to the people like you and me? I dont know about you, but I would certainly benefit from paying less taxes.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:45 PM
quote:
Comrade is not a Russian word. Moreover their communism was rooted in Marx


Well which is it peasant? Then ask yourself peasant while you are at it, why would Russians prefer socialism/communism rather than being ruled by the Tzar and those who held the top 100% of all the wealth?

See peasant, when only a few hold the majority of wealth in a country it is easy to see why the rest of the country would prefer something different than the same old same old. The problem with Russia is that Stalin just replaced the Tzar and his crowd with one of his own.



[Edited on 11/7/2008 by PattyG]

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:45 PM
"Why is it that not a single politician can bring themselves to utter the phrase "cut government" in order to bring government spending in line with income? Every home and business in America has to live by that rule, why not the government?"

That I can agree with. But Bush increased spending and the size of government. It's not just the Democrats.


"Do you really think that letting the Bush tax cuts expire plus raising business taxes, capital gains taxes, and taxes on the wealthy will create a pro-business environment?"

Capital gains tax - Yes, it should be increased. People who make money by simply investing should pay taxes like the rest of us.

Taxes on wealth - They can best afford it. See my original post. If you would like to discuss a flat tax with no writeoffs what so ever, maybe we could discuss that



[Edited on 11/7/2008 by 2112]

[Edited on 11/7/2008 by 2112]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:47 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm so sick of the far right


In a place where little is ever qualified, I'd say that 2112 did a fine job here, and it's nice to know that RBK considers himself far right. That's good to know.

Continue.


Proudly so. Isn't it obvious? Is it a problem?


I've never expected you to care about me or what I think, to be quite honest. Why do you even ask? All I did was make an observation. Far right, far whatever, no matter to me. I don't judge the value of people on their political views. Do you?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 03:52 PM
quote:
quote:
Comrade is not a Russian word. Moreover their communism was rooted in Marx


Well which is it peasant? Then ask yourself peasant while you are at it, why would Russians prefer socialism/communism rather than being ruled by the Tzar and those who held the top %100 of all the wealth?

See peasant, when only a few hold the majority of wealth in a country it is easy to see why the rest of the country would prefer something different than the same old same old. The problem with Russia is that Stalin just replaced the Tzar and his crowd with one of his own.


As I said; their communism was ROOTED in Marx. Marx was a socialist. Socialism is is sort of like Communism-lite. Lenin took many of the tenets of Marxism and perverted them to his own ends. By the way LENIN replaced the Czar. Stalin came along many years later. Stalin butchered millions of his countrymen as well. Even the Czar didn't do that.

LOL, if you're not careful your name calling and surly manner will get you moved to the Playpen.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 04:03 PM
Why would the Czar murder his peasants when all he had to do was starve them all to death? Don't get offended peasant, I am just calling like I see it, no vulgar language here.

Look, I am well aware of Russian history. Also, why should I care if a business is not going to get tax relief for sending manufacturing jobs overseas to be done by the peasants of the world, peasant? Apparently you are not much of a go getter yourself as you seem to spend an awful lot of time posting on this board instead of using your time to actually generate income for your employer. You better watch it as there is some peasant overseas somewhere waiting to snap up your job for $5.00 a month pay.

 

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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 04:03 PM
quote:
LOL @ Dick post-election day 3. Keep it coming, you're an entertainer!


SEE! I've been the epitome of polite and pleasant interaction all day today, my stalker friend. Even your fellow travelers have admitted as much. Yet this is how I'm repaid even as I present the gracious demeanor you yourself find lacking in my contributions?

Do see why I don't take you seriously?

 

____________________
As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 04:05 PM
quote:
I've been the epitome of polite and pleasant interaction all day today, my stalker friend.


Look peasant, even a blind hog can root up an acorn now and then.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 04:12 PM
quote:
quote:
Do you really think that letting the Bush tax cuts expire plus raising business taxes, capital gains taxes, and taxes on the wealthy will create a pro-business environment?

Capital gains tax - Yes, it should be increased. People who make money by simply investing should pay taxes like the rest of us.

Taxes on wealth - They can best afford it. See my original post. If you would like to discuss a flat tax with no writeoffs what so ever, maybe we could discuss that
The economy is an environmental system, much like the planet we live on. Each piece is there for a reason, and serves it purpose. Putting stress on one portion - in this case capital gains - will create a reaction. Businesses need investment for growth, growth creates jobs. For the investors to remain willing to risk their wealth in a business, a rate of return is expected. If that return is diminished by higher taxes, investment capital will look for other locations to invest in.

Plus; how many times does the example of lower taxes = higher tax revenues have to be repeated for these politicians to learn?

As to a flat tax - that one's a looser. Far better is The Fair Tax. Eliminate all Fed income, business, corporate, Social Security, Medicare, and other deductions and roll it all into a national sales tax. Prebate everyone to overcome the cost of the tax on necessities like food. Shut down the IRS forever and make government's real cost apparent in the purchase of every item. That's change I can believe in!

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 04:15 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
LOL @ Dick post-election day 3. Keep it coming, you're an entertainer!


SEE! I've been the epitome of polite and pleasant interaction all day today, my stalker friend. Even your fellow travelers have admitted as much. Yet this is how I'm repaid even as I present the gracious demeanor you yourself find lacking in my contributions?

Do see why I don't take you seriously?

Name one person you DO take seriously. You've never once engaged in reciprocal conversation here, not one time.



I give as good as I get my stalker friend. Obviously you've just arrived from the dumpster run or whatever it is you do. I have been enjoying many conversations here this afternoon, even finding myself on a first name basis with Steve. Now you come along and want to act like an adolescent. They have the PlayPen for that you know.

 

____________________
As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 04:18 PM
quote:
They have the PlayPen for that you know.





Yeah, but it is not as big as the one you live in, peasant!

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 04:24 PM
quote:
Also, why should I care if a business is not going to get tax relief for sending manufacturing jobs overseas to be done by the peasants of the world, peasant?


hey pattyg ,

i would say that you should care because companies are sending jobs and manufacturing overseas due to the tax laws that are currently stiffling businesses. instead of giving or not giving tax relief, how about we fix the tax code problem instead of fighting the symptoms of a failed system. www.fairtax.org

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 04:30 PM
quote:
quote:
Also, why should I care if a business is not going to get tax relief for sending manufacturing jobs overseas to be done by the peasants of the world, peasant?


hey pattyg ,

i would say that you should care because companies are sending jobs and manufacturing overseas due to the tax laws that are currently stiffling businesses. instead of giving or not giving tax relief, how about we fix the tax code problem instead of fighting the symptoms of a failed system. www.fairtax.org


Nah, better to just call people names and behave like a seventh grader.

I LOVE how the inner socialist in all these folks who claim not to be socialists is rearing its ugly head this afternoon. It's a fascinating thing to observe.

 

____________________
As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 04:38 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
LOL @ Dick post-election day 3. Keep it coming, you're an entertainer!


SEE! I've been the epitome of polite and pleasant interaction all day today, my stalker friend. Even your fellow travelers have admitted as much. Yet this is how I'm repaid even as I present the gracious demeanor you yourself find lacking in my contributions?

Do see why I don't take you seriously?

Name one person you DO take seriously. You've never once engaged in reciprocal conversation here, not one time.



I give as good as I get my stalker friend. Obviously you've just arrived from the dumpster run or whatever it is you do. I have been enjoying many conversations here this afternoon, even finding myself on a first name basis with Steve. Now you come along and want to act like an adolescent. They have the PlayPen for that you know.

LOL, you sure others are enjoying the conversation as much as you?


If they aren't they haven't said so, my stalker friend. You're the one trying to pick a fight afterall. Alas, I must leave you to play with yourself, however. $1 beers, hockey and good friends await me and the missus in the real world. Don't take too much advantage of yourself or you'll respect yourself even less.

TA!

 

____________________
As a patriot and a loyal member of the opposition I pledge to offer our new President the very same benefit of the doubt and unwavering support that the left offered George Bush over the last eight years.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2008 at 04:46 PM
Well, I enjoy the irony in the Bush supporters who panic and say we should start calling ourselves the USSA totally missing the point that I made in the first paragraph of this post.
 
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