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Author: Subject: Is The Vietnam Era Over?

Zen Peach





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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 01:42 PM
I've been thinking about this today.

Caveat: I'm 38. I was born in 1970. I have no personal historical reference to Vietnam, the civil rights movement, the 60s at all, really.

There is, however, no shortage of people here that are old enough to remember all of that and more and that I more than respect the hell out of. Regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum, I'd love to hear from those here in the form of perspective - does the result of the election really signify a shift (a change, if you will, the word that has become as disdainful as a curse word to some lately) in history - as compared to the lingering factors of years past?

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 02:02 PM
I would not call Obama's election itself a shift; the result is more a milemarker along the way. I'm surprised the nation's trip has come this far this quickly, but there is the sign.
 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 02:04 PM
I would like to think so but I don't believe any President can stop the Military from if it is set on war. JFK tried. Still, I think diplomacy can avoid many conflicts. Hopefully the Neo-Con's agenda of endless war has been such a disaster that they will be considered a failure and lose all their power in Washington.
 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 02:06 PM
Is The Vietnam Era Over?

Ask Sen. McCain's backers, they seem to think what happened 40 years ago is relevant.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 02:40 PM
quote:
Is The Vietnam Era Over?

Ask Sen. McCain's backers, they seem to think what happened 40 years ago is relevant.


Even Obama thought what happened 40 years ago to McCain was relevant, who are we to go against hiis word?

I'm not clear on what exactly you mean Bhawk...I was in the Navy during the Vietnam Era.

For me it is long over, but I'm sure there are a lot of mentally wounded still walking around from that time.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 02:42 PM
quote:

Even Obama thought what happened 40 years ago to McCain was relevant, who are we to go against hiis word?



His word?...it's commonly referred to as Diplomacy.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 03:38 PM
I know a few Vietnam Vets that live with it everyday of their life. It's not over for some of them.

 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 03:44 PM
quote:
Is The Vietnam Era Over?

Ask Sen. McCain's backers, they seem to think what happened 40 years ago is relevant.


Just curious BIGV. What year were you born?




 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 03:46 PM
quote:
quote:
Is The Vietnam Era Over?

Ask Sen. McCain's backers, they seem to think what happened 40 years ago is relevant.


Even Obama thought what happened 40 years ago to McCain was relevant, who are we to go against hiis word?

I'm not clear on what exactly you mean Bhawk...I was in the Navy during the Vietnam Era.

For me it is long over, but I'm sure there are a lot of mentally wounded still walking around from that time.


I guess what I mean is this...I'm not starry-eyed or thinking that Obama is the Second Coming, I'm just trying to gauge what his election means and the significance, or, to be fair, the non-significance of it. We have the first President not to be connected to Vietnam in any way, and that has been such a huge political issue for most of my lifetime. For those who were around in the 60s, what does Obama's win mean...or does it mean anything?

 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 04:05 PM
I was around in the 60s and to me Obama is the first President since JFK that appears to have the intelligence and diplomatic skills to help the world advance away from violence as the answer to every conflict. Carter was smart and wanted peace but couldn't convey his message effectively. I hope and pray that Obama will be able to bring about a more peaceful world.
 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 04:17 PM
For the record, I'm a 60 year old Vietnam Vet.

IMHO, I would equate the result of the election with the public pressure that resulted in the ending of the Vietnam war.

Both were the result of the opinion of the American people, and both, I believe, turned the country for the better.
I feel that we have entered a new and better era, so, in that sense, maybe the "Vietnam era" is over.

I, myself, have never been prouder to call myself an American!

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 04:17 PM
I was born in 1973 and my only connection is that my father is a Vietnam Veteran. Someone said something interesting yesterday to me though which I don't think has any significance (at least I don't think) and that is that this country never elected a Vietnam Veteran to the highest office. I just think that's more of a stat like the last of the WWII breed is dying though, no real significance to it.

That being said, I did not vote for Obama, but I do think his victory is significant. I am not naive to think there is not racism in this country, but I also don't think racism prevented other black candidates in the past from getting elected. I think this country is actually willing to (and just did) elect a black person or even a woman. It just has to be the right one. Jesse Jackson, no thanks, Alan Keyes, no thanks, Al Sharpton, hell no, Sarah Palin, nope, Geraldine Ferraro, no thanks (obviously vp picks). Obama, while I don't agree with his policies, had a fantastic message and is a great communicator and because of that won handily.

Now, this part I know is going to come off completely biggoted but I don't know any other way to say it. The best thing about Obama being elected, is that there are no more excuses not to succeed. You have no father, you can still be president, you grew up black or whatever color and people discriminated against you, you can still be president, and so on and so on. Its actually a great story, its the American dream. Ironically enough, the whole campaign was sort of run on the dream being dead. I guess he proved that theory wrong!!

 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 04:19 PM
quote:
I hope and pray that Obama will be able to bring about a more peaceful world.



I do too, but sometimes I think we, and perhaps Carter and others, discount the fact that there are seriously bad people in the world, and no matter how much negotiation and how much goodwill you extend, they are still going to be evil pieces of **** . Its just a fact of human nature.

 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 04:25 PM
quote:
I would not call Obama's election itself a shift; the result is more a milemarker along the way. I'm surprised the nation's trip has come this far this quickly, but there is the sign.


Actually, the major marker in all of this has been that there have been black candidates that have run in both major parties. Several on the Republican side over the past 12 years have gotten votes from some of the old conservative WWII veterans.
Twice a black candidate has gotten my vote in the primaries before Obama even ran.

 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 04:27 PM
Obama was definitely connected to Vietnam via the CBS news or whatever they watched. Night after night for years and years. My hope is that he learned that lesson well and will not go charging into countries to 'nation build'. If so, then the Vietnam Era may just be over.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 04:49 PM
Not sure what you mean by your topic question, BHawk. I was born in the earlier 50's and present for what was going on in the 60's and 70's. I wore a black armband and marched in protests against the VietNam war and have more memories of sad images and news stories tied to that period in our countries history. I also wore a silver POW-MIA bracelet for many years for somebody who did not come home and had/have many friends who were soldiers in that war - some of them made it back in good shape, some of them made it back in bad shape, and some did not make it back.

I was married to one that came back with some heavy baggage, although I did not understand to what extent until much later in our relationship. That experience and stories from friends who were there put war and the kids who end up fighting them into perspective for me. Some of these guys were drafted, some enlisted, and I can't think of one who found it to be constructive after all was said and done.

I had a lot of hope when our country extracted itself from that conflict but here we are involved in war today and if you look back over the relatively short period we've been a country, hmmm - it saddens me but war seems to be a constant (look at how long we've been involved in this dance with North Korea... we are talking pre-VietNam and the dance continues). Of course, when you look at the bigger picture and look at mankind over the centuries war seems to have always been in the picture in some way or another.

Is the VietNam Era over? Yes - I think it has been for some time now. Is it something to be forgotten. Nope. How do I feel about Obama? Hopeful, and that's just my way (given the choice I'll always choose hope over hopelessness). Something I find encouraging is that other people seem to be responding to his election with high hopes, also. I'm encouraged by the many positive sound-byte interviews that have been conducted with Joe and Jenny on-the-street to gauge reactions to this election. I'm also hopeful to see the positive response the election has elicited world wide. I couldn't possibly list everything here but google it ... Obama election the world ... you'll see what I mean. After often reading 'Ugly American' types of comments it's interesting (and nice) to read the positive feedback, not only on Obama as the elected POTUS, but on Americans as a whole as being courageous and embracing change. I can't recall an election in my voting lifetime where the world's response to one of our electorate processes has been so positive.

Since I was present in the 60's I remember the Civil Rights movement, too, and Martin Luther King, and marches on Washington, and marches throughout the south. Discrimination, in many shapes and sizes, is alive and well and flourishing all over the world even today. South Africa, Iraq, Kenya, India, Darfur, Zimbabwie, India, Checknya, Rwanda, China, Kosovo, Ukraine, Serbia... the list goes on and on. I think many who remember the Civil Rights movement did not expect to see a person of color nominated to the position of POTUS within their lifetimes so what happened Tuesday takes on additional signficance both within and outside of our country. I like to think the right person for the job was selected by a majority of the people and that he will be working for all of us equally. Hope springs eternal.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 04:55 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Is The Vietnam Era Over?

Ask Sen. McCain's backers, they seem to think what happened 40 years ago is relevant.


Even Obama thought what happened 40 years ago to McCain was relevant, who are we to go against hiis word?

I'm not clear on what exactly you mean Bhawk...I was in the Navy during the Vietnam Era.

For me it is long over, but I'm sure there are a lot of mentally wounded still walking around from that time.


I guess what I mean is this...I'm not starry-eyed or thinking that Obama is the Second Coming, I'm just trying to gauge what his election means and the significance, or, to be fair, the non-significance of it. We have the first President not to be connected to Vietnam in any way, and that has been such a huge political issue for most of my lifetime. For those who were around in the 60s, what does Obama's win mean...or does it mean anything?


OK, got it....for me, who was around in the 60's, it doesn't mean a thing because its not about the color of his skin, but about the ideology.
I don't think his election changes much about the racist nature of our society, but it does reflect how the country has evolved.

 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 04:57 PM
The Clinton era democrats were all holdovers from the Vietnam era. They had deserved guilt trips about any number of their actions in that era so they set about trying to prove they were right all along. One good thing about BarryO is he's too young to be beholden to the cabal of Woodstock era democrats, Ayers not withstanding, just as he got elected sans the help of Jesse Jackson and the rest of the race whores.

 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 09:13 PM
If Bhawk doesn't mind too much, I'll risk re-phrasing his question a little. As I read it I thought: is this the end of the Baby Boom generation dominating politics?

I think we've had their issues, if not their votes, dominating Amercian life for the past 30-40 years, probably more. I was born in '56, so I'm towards the end of the group. I was in the last year to have lottery numbers assigned for the draft, but that year was never called (good thing too; my birthday was drawn 13th).

The Vietnam War was a dominent event in our generation's growth, but not exclusively so. The 60's saw a series of events that would still shake us up immensely if they occurred today. Civil rights violence and victories, national leaders slain, severe civil unrest in many cities, campus activism and revolt, and the first clear sign that we could no longer trust our government were all nearly as big as Vietnam.

And there was a generational shift that was more subtle, but perhaps in the end more important. The Greatest Generation that bore us came through the Depression and WWII, coming home to build families where they universally said "our children will have better". With perfect timing and the blessings of a world torn apart after war, our relatively unscathed economy allowed for the greatest expansion of wealth and the growth of a middle class the likes of which had never existed before.

We were raised not only with more, but a lot more, almost endlessly so compared to previous generations. On the surface this success would seem ideal. But I believe it also gave birth to many of the problems we see today. The whole "gotta have it now" mentality, and a belief in limitless spending, are an outgrowth of a generation who had a much easier time in raising their living standard than their parents did. Add to this a loss of common civility and greatly redefined ethics, and the Baby Boomers in general are a much different generation than their parents. Much of that has been passed on to their kids as well.

If I mix it all together, I'd say that my generation bears a lot of responsibility for problems in business and politics, which we are now coming face to face with. It has not been part of our experience to be constrained by limits. Much as we will struggle with the repercussions of our actions, I think that kids now in their 20's will really face the challenge. How to repair an economic mess left to them, and do so in a much more competitive world, is going to be as big a challenge as any faced before them.

So are we seeing the power structure move past the politics of the Baby Boomers? Their continued huge numbers makes that impossible for a while yet. But something has to change and I do believe this new administration has an opportunity to start that process. How well they do and how it works out will be interesting indeed to watch.

 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 11:23 PM
I'm glad that I'm old enough to remember what was going on at the time. The 1960's was quite an interesting time to say the least. Looking back, really incredible.

 

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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 11:29 PM
quote:

I feel that we have entered a new and better era, so, in that sense, maybe the "Vietnam era" is over.

I, myself, have never been prouder to call myself an American!


Amen...and Thank You for your service.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/6/2008 at 11:34 PM
quote:
quote:

I feel that we have entered a new and better era, so, in that sense, maybe the "Vietnam era" is over.

I, myself, have never been prouder to call myself an American!


Amen...and Thank You for your service.



I'm not so sure about the "pride" part, but I echo some of the sentiment of BigV..

Thank you for your service, Sir.

 

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