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Author: Subject: Does Obama display his Christian faith?

A Peach Supreme





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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:03 PM
Obama claims to be a Christian, and maybe he even thinks he is. However, his publicly stated views and votes make this really hard for me to swallow.

quote:
Barack Obama portrays himself as a religious man. He says he's a believing Christian, and he's campaigned heavily for the votes of American Christians.

But does Barack Obama really promote the values of biblical Christianity?

Over the course of my life, I've made the journey from cocky major league baseball pitcher to a believer in the divinity of Christ and the eternal truth of His teachings. I believe, like so many millions of my fellow Americans, that the Bible is the Word of God, that Christianity is true, and that Jesus is the Son of God, and therefore His values are my values.

But are they Barack Obama's values?

To answer that question, I created the three-part video "The Christian Case Against Barack Obama."

You can watch the trailer here ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn05uVezP-c ), as well as parts one ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO6_oso-zLc ), two ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkqJf9g4kVI ), and three ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YMrG41ESGw ).

In the videos, I examine Obama's views on the Bible and the role of religion in politics; his views on abortion, infanticide, same-sex marriage and the ordination of homosexual clergy; his philosophy of the courts, his view of judges who make law rather than interpreting it; his socialistic tax policy designed to "spread the wealth around"; his views on the American military; and his beliefs on how we should all educate our children.

After examining the material it becomes clear that Barack Obama's words and his deeds do not reflect biblical Christianity. It is America's Judeo-Christian heritage, and our continued adherence to those principles, that make us the last best hope for mankind. We cannot hope to be that shining city on a hill without the ongoing grace of God and the guidance of His Word.

Voting for a man who sides so clearly against that Word-voting for a man who twists that Word to his own ends-voting for a man who sees himself as a messianic figure in his own right-is not merely dangerous, it means standing in opposition to the work of God on earth, as expressed through His Son Jesus Christ.

Let there be no more deceit; let there be no more obfuscation.

The Christian case against Barack Obama is clear.

No believing Christian should vote for Barack Obama on November 4.
Source: http://townhall.com/Columnists/FrankPastore/2008/10/30/the_christian_case_a gainst_barack_obama

I'd go farther than Pastore. Nobody who cares if a politician claims to be what his actions deny should vote for Obama.

I'm not posting this to deny Obama's claim of being a Christian; that's between him and Christ. But I'd rather he called himself a very liberal Christian who interprets Christ's teachings out of expedience, than to imply anything stronger.

Billastro

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:06 PM
As you said, that is between him and Christ. Which one invited you in?

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:12 PM
McCain is a better Christian than Obama then. Cool. I will be praying for Barack's soul.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:12 PM
I don't care.

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:16 PM
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. " Matthew 7.1-5

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:22 PM
We've already been told Obama's a Muslim and then it was the anti-Christ. Now, he's a lukewarm Christian. This is the October surprise we've anticipated? Color me underwhelmed.

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:25 PM
quote:
As you said, that is between him and Christ. Which one invited you in?
Christ did. There are a number of passages in which he states that we'll recognize his followers by their fruit (actions), and he tells us to do this.

Billastro

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:27 PM
His religion is irrelevant but when his posturing is one thing and his actual behavior is something else entirely - THAT goes to his character, or lack thereof.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:27 PM
quote:
I'm sorry, Bill, but it is not up to you to determine what type of Christian he is. As it is not up to me to me to comment on what type of Christian McCain might be.
Actually, to an extent, it is. See my reply to SCB. But my larger point had to do with whether he was plausible in his claim. If he claimed to be a Muslim but ate pork, or a pious Jew but campaigned on the Sabbath, the same question would apply.

Billastro

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:27 PM
quote:
I don't care.
Whether he's honest about what he says he is?

Billastro

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:27 PM
quote:
His religion is irrelevant but when his posturing is one thing and his actual behavior is something else entirely - THAT goes to his character, or lack thereof.
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:28 PM
quote:
quote:
I'm sorry, Bill, but it is not up to you to determine what type of Christian he is. As it is not up to me to me to comment on what type of Christian McCain might be.
Actually, to an extent, it is. See my reply to SCB. But my larger point had to do with whether he was plausible in his claim. If he claimed to be a Muslim but ate pork, or a pious Jew but campaigned on the Sabbath, the same question would apply.

Billastro
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:29 PM
quote:
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. " Matthew 7.1-5
In context, Jesus is telling us not to judge others harshly, and that He will apply our standards to us. But there are plenty of other citations in the Gospels in which He clearly tells us to judge others.

Billastro

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:30 PM
quote:
We've already been told Obama's a Muslim and then it was the anti-Christ. Now, he's a lukewarm Christian. This is the October surprise we've anticipated? Color me underwhelmed.
If you say so. All I pointed out was that his actions didn't live up to his claims. Nothing more.

Billastro

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:31 PM
If he wants to run the free the world you damned well better believe he's going to be judged - in ALL aspects. To not do so would be the height of stupidity.

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:31 PM
I think He also told you not to judge each other.

Bill, I have to tell you, as a former Christian, that Christians attempting to judge which of their brethren will REALLY be in Heaven is one of the things I find most hypocritical and most offensive about the way Christians sometimes act. That is when they are furthest away from the teachings of Christ.

It has been said that the Christian army is the only army that shoots its wounded. I would submit that it is probably the army where most of its members die from friendly fire.

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:38 PM
quote:
quote:
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. " Matthew 7.1-5


In context, Jesus is telling us not to judge others harshly, and that He will apply our standards to us. But there are plenty of other citations in the Gospels in which He clearly tells us to judge others.

Billastro


Maybe that isn't what Jesus was saying at all. Maybe He really meant what He said, "Don't judge each other." Maybe he meant, "Don't judge each other. When you are doing that, you are not loving each other, like I've told you you should do. When you judge him, he judges you back. You all start judging each other, and it never ends. So judge not, lest ye be judged. Just love each other."

The great thing about the Bible is that you can find something there to support pretty much any position you want to take.

But using the Bible to say it is OK to judge other Christians is quite a caper, in my book. I really wish the New Testament only had four books. Once we started accepting Paul's words as the Word of God, we went down the road that led us here.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:39 PM
quote:
quote:
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. " Matthew 7.1-5
In context, Jesus is telling us not to judge others harshly, and that He will apply our standards to us. But there are plenty of other citations in the Gospels in which He clearly tells us to judge others.

Billastro
There are many citations in the Gospels in which He tells us to judge. There are also many citations in the Gospels in which He tells us not to judge. I'm always intrested to find which of those paths people choose to regard most (and at what times). I guess it all comes down to how you percieve yourself and whether or not you feel it is your 'responsibility' to apply judgement against your fellow man. Me personally, I don't feel it's my place to, nor am I compelled to, spend a lot of time pointing out what I perceive to be character deficiencies in others. I would especially not finger someone for exercising their right to freedom in religious belief anymore than I would insist that they practice the same beliefs, or display their belief in the same way, as I do.

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:39 PM
quote:
quote:
I don't care.
Whether he's honest about what he says he is?

Billastro


In the context of his personal spirituality, no, I don't care. It has absolutely nothing to do with governing.

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:42 PM
quote:
There are many citations in the Gospels in which He tells us to judge. There are also many citations in the Gospels in which He tells us not to judge. I'm always intrested to find which of those paths people choose to regard most (and at what times). I guess it all comes down to how you percieve yourself and whether or not you feel it is your 'responsibility' to apply judgement against your fellow man. Me personally, I don't feel it's my place to, nor am I compelled to, spend a lot of time pointing out what I perceive to be character deficiencies in others. I would especially not finger someone for exercising their right to freedom in religious belief anymore than I would insist that they practice the same beliefs, or display their belief in the same way, as I do.


Very well said. I wish I could keep all that in mind when I post in the WP sometime.

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:43 PM
quote:
quote:
We've already been told Obama's a Muslim and then it was the anti-Christ. Now, he's a lukewarm Christian. This is the October surprise we've anticipated? Color me underwhelmed.
If you say so. All I pointed out was that his actions didn't live up to his claims. Nothing more.

Billastro


Until a man of no faith has an equal shot at being elected to office, there will be those who tell the faithful what they want to hear. I'm not saying that's Obama, just saying when faith is a criteria for some voters on a secular office, expect pandering.

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:45 PM
Bill, are you going to start a thread analyzing McCain's Christian testimony?

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 01:54 PM
I watched the first video, then realized it was a waste of time. It was easy to see where you were going with it. Last night I saw Obama as a wonderful human being and his Christain virtues came through.

Your views are fundamental and that's your right. Many other Christians have a different take on it. That's why we have hundreds of Protestant denominations. All are valid in my view. The views of non-believers are also valid, as are the views of Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddists and others. It's freedom of religion and freedom from religion.

The most important thing, Obama is a good man and a good human being. He will do what is right for this country. I can't say the same for McCain.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 02:00 PM
Oh I see, the old I am more of a Christian then you are trick. Very nice!

 

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  posted on 10/30/2008 at 02:01 PM
quote:

The most important thing, Obama is a good man and a good human being. He will do what is right for this country.



You KNOW this? How? Because he said so?

 

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