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Author: Subject: Joe the Plumber

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 10/15/2008 at 11:55 PM
This guy has obviously become an overnight celebrity with his questions to Obama.

I'm not an Obama fan, but in the sake of proper context and fairness, this video shows the full conversation and appears unedited -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFC9jv9jfoA

While I don't believe any final version of a new tax plan will make it through congress and maintain his promises, its only fair to see and hear everything that was said. In full context, it's not exactly an earthshaking slip for BO.

But at the same time, his oft repeated lines of middle class tax relief are once again tossed out here, which clearly do not pass the highest test of "truthiness" if the details are examined.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 12:00 AM
God, he said he's going to tax REVENUES (not profits). Came right out of his mouth. My Gosh.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 12:02 AM
quote:
But at the same time, his oft repeated lines of middle class tax relief are once again tossed out here, which clearly do not pass the highest test of "truthiness" if the details are examined.


How many stump speech promises made by any candidate ever really do?

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 12:13 AM
quote:
God, he said he's going to tax REVENUES (not profits). Came right out of his mouth. My Gosh.

Yikes, I missed that the first time around. If its revenue based, small business is screwed


quote:
How many stump speech promises made by any candidate ever really do?

True enough Bhawk. But this has become a mantra of his campaign, and the details have been left untouched by the general media, and to their shame, the McCain campaign.

 

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Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured

uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,

so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 01:05 AM
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
How many stump speech promises made by any candidate ever really do?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----


True enough Bhawk. But this has become a mantra of his campaign, and the details have been left untouched by the general media, and to their shame, the McCain campaign.


Agreed, and a shame.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 06:42 AM
I'm a small business owner (plumbing business strangely enough) and I'm worried sick over this new tax plan if it comes to fruition. With the cost of labor and materials these days 250K in revenue is easily attainable by even the smallest of businesses. I live comforably, but it's a modest lifestyle and I live in a modest home. Existing taxes and insurance costs right now sometimes makes me wonder who I'm working for. SPREAD THE WEALTH???? WTF is that??? I'm supposed to turn my hard earned money over to the less fortunate re: lazy slobs who don't want to work??? If this tax goes through I'll be better off shutting my doors and standing in line for my "piece of the pie". Small businesses will be f*cked.
 

True Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 06:52 AM
quote:
I'm supposed to turn my hard earned money over to the less fortunate re: lazy slobs who don't want to work???


That's a huge misperception. I work hard, I don't make $250k and never will, and I want tax relief. And I bet your employees do as well.

Let me ask you this...if McCain wins and his tax plan is implemented, how many more workers will you hire? How much of a raise will you be giving to your current employees?

[Edited on 10/16/2008 by gondicar]

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 06:59 AM
quote:
quote:
I'm supposed to turn my hard earned money over to the less fortunate re: lazy slobs who don't want to work???


That's a huge misperception. I work hard, I don't make $250k and never will, and I want tax relief. And I bet your employees do as well.


[Edited on 10/16/2008 by gondicar]


Is it??? I think the misperception is that people think that revenue = income. My revenues slightly exceed 250K, but what I make (ends up in my pocket) is miles less than half of that.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 07:13 AM
I think that by November 5 or so, Sen. McCain will be wondering why he hadn't chosen "Joe the plumber" to be his V.P. instead of the illustriously mediocre Sen. Palin.

[Edited on 10/16/2008 by BIGV]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 07:54 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm supposed to turn my hard earned money over to the less fortunate re: lazy slobs who don't want to work???


That's a huge misperception. I work hard, I don't make $250k and never will, and I want tax relief. And I bet your employees do as well.


[Edited on 10/16/2008 by gondicar]


Is it??? I think the misperception is that people think that revenue = income. My revenues slightly exceed 250K, but what I make (ends up in my pocket) is miles less than half of that.


Yes, it is. You point out another misperception that some people may have, but they are two different things. And you didn't answer my questions, but that's ok.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 08:41 AM
quote:
quote:
I'm supposed to turn my hard earned money over to the less fortunate re: lazy slobs who don't want to work???


That's a huge misperception. I work hard, I don't make $250k and never will, and I want tax relief. And I bet your employees do as well.

Let me ask you this...if McCain wins and his tax plan is implemented, how many more workers will you hire? How much of a raise will you be giving to your current employees?

[Edited on 10/16/2008 by gondicar]


There is nothing in either tax plan that will create job growth - tax cuts don't have the kind of stimulus effect that spending does. Tax and spend works, I don't advocate it, but it works.

You make less than $250,000 a year and you want tax relief....do you want to pay less because someone else is forced to pay more, or do you want the government to drastically reduce spending?

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 08:49 AM
quote:
There is nothing in either tax plan that will create job growth - tax cuts don't have the kind of stimulus effect that spending does. Tax and spend works, I don't advocate it, but it works.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on this point, but McCain and his running mate claim his plan WILL create jobs, so I was just wondering how many jobs will be created at hankpipes company if the McCain/Palin ticket is elected.

quote:
You make less than $250,000 a year and you want tax relief....do you want to pay less because someone else is forced to pay more, or do you want the government to drastically reduce spending?

Yes.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 09:51 AM
The tax proposal in on NET PROFIT over and above $250,000.....NOT REVENUE. Basic accounting here, folks. And if you're making a PROFIT of $250,000, then to your credit, you're very well off compared with the average middle class American. Not necessarily rich, but upper middle class.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 09:59 AM
quote:
The tax proposal in on NET PROFIT over and above $250,000.....NOT REVENUE. Basic accounting here, folks. And if you're making a PROFIT of $250,000, then to your credit, you're very well off compared with the average middle class American. Not necessarily rich, but upper middle class.


That's not what Obama said...Listen closely to what he said at the 26 second mark of the tape.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 10:11 AM
I think that's all Hank was getting at. REVENUE is how much GROSS money you make, PROFIT is NET. Pay taxes on net, not gross, or you'd be taxed out of business.

Hopefully, Obama just misspoke and had his terms turned around.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 10:33 AM

When he talks about the flat tax, he tells Joe that in order for it to work there would have to be a 40% VAT tax to replace all the revenue. Heck, compared to what's coming out of my checks now- I'm in! I'd still end up paying less. When can we start?

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 10:41 AM
I think Joe the Plumber and Barack the Builder should go into business together.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 10:45 AM
quote:
I think Joe the Plumber and Barack the Builder should go into business together.


Just keep Barack away from anything having to do with the finances!

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 10:56 AM
quote:

When he talks about the flat tax, he tells Joe that in order for it to work there would have to be a 40% VAT tax to replace all the revenue. Heck, compared to what's coming out of my checks now- I'm in! I'd still end up paying less. When can we start?

I found that part interesting too.

Barack was obviously mixing up the flat tax with the Fair Tax proposal, and there's big differences between them.

But think about what he said regardng actual rates being aroud 40%, because its quite revealing. If true, then that's what we are actually paying today

The reason it doesn't outwardly appear that way is a combination of things. The "progressive" income tax rates are part of that, but more important are the hidden taxes that are part of the prices on everything we buy.

So Barack just copped to what big gov actually costs you, whether you realize it or not.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 10:58 AM
He's really going to lay some pipe for Old Joe the plumber.
Spoken like he practiced that question in front of the mirror with Jesse and Rev Al .

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 10:59 AM
Apparently its now coming out that "Joe the Plumber" is really Joe the Republican Plant. He is family to the son in law of Charles Keating. More when I can find it...

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 11:03 AM
quote:
He's really going to lay some pipe for Old Joe the plumber.
Spoken like he practiced that question in front of the mirror with Jesse and Rev Al .


Wow, that's really something. i guess all black political figures are just the same to you, huh?

Unbelievable.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 11:09 AM
When describing his encounter, Joe The Plumber says that Obama did "a tap dance...almost as good as Sammy Davis, Jr."

Interesting comparison.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Joe_speaks.html?showall

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 11:32 AM
quote:
quote:
The tax proposal in on NET PROFIT over and above $250,000.....NOT REVENUE. Basic accounting here, folks. And if you're making a PROFIT of $250,000, then to your credit, you're very well off compared with the average middle class American. Not necessarily rich, but upper middle class.


That's not what Obama said...Listen closely to what he said at the 26 second mark of the tape.


He misspoke.....It's on NET Profit from your business, not revenue. Do you actually think anyone would propose taxing revenue on any business? This is accounting 101 folks.....

[Edited on 10/16/2008 by Chain]

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 10/16/2008 at 11:37 AM
quote:
Apparently its now coming out that "Joe the Plumber" is really Joe the Republican Plant. He is family to the son in law of Charles Keating. More when I can find it...




http://crooksandliars.com/

I say screw Joe The Plumber if this all turns out to be true

(edited to repair link)

[Edited on 10/16/2008 by bluesbasscat]

 

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