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Author: Subject: Questioning Obama

Ultimate Peach





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  posted on 10/13/2008 at 06:36 PM
Have to agree with this article that maybe it's about time to start asking Obama some very hard questions, since it seems very likely that he'll be elected the next President. Hate to say it but he doesn't seem to have plans that doesn't fit well into the Democratic mainstream. And whether people want to admit or not, this economic crisis wasn't just caused by the Republicans during the Bush Administration. truth be told this has been a long time coming, and the Democrat hands are just as dirty. About time for somebody to quit playing politics and tell the truth, everybodies hands are dirty, and were do we go from there? Blaming one side or another for political advantage isn't going to solve a damn thing. With that in mind, I'm curious what would Obama do that would actually improve America's economy, and not play into partisan politics? Would he really be an agent of "change" and reach accross political lines to find the best answers, even if it might mean, "stepping on the toes" of many of his Democrat supporters , and what they think and want? Does the party or the country come first in Obama's mind? Would he have the "backbone" to do such things as necessary, even if many of his supporters might not agree with him, if he felt that was the right course of action for the nation to take? In a lot of ways that's the true test of leadership, doing what you feel and know is right, even though it might not be popular. Be curious, to see how Obama measures up. Even though I personally don't think Obama will measure up, and I feel he'll be a typical liberal Democrat, I certainly hope that I'm very wrong, as America certainly needs a leader that can get beyond partisan Republican/Democrat politics and trys to take America to a better place. No matter who wins this election, that's my hope and prayer.

quote:
Questioning Obama
By Dan Balz

For the past two weeks, the focus of the presidential campaign has been on John McCain. Given the state of the race, it may well stay there for a while. What can McCain do? Should he attack more? Should he go all positive? Can he come back?

With 22 days left in the race, that's understandable. McCain is the focus because what was thought to be a close race doesn't look like one at this moment. Which is all the more reason that the real focus now ought to be on Barack Obama.

The Illinois senator has been the political beneficiary of one of the worst months of economic news in the country's history. Since the fall of Lehman Brothers, Obama has expanded his lead and solidified his position in the presidential race.

He leads nationally in the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll by 53 percent to 43 percent. He leads, too, by a wide margin in estimates of the Electoral College. Virtually all of the closest states left at this point voted for President Bush four years ago.

The presidential race is not over, but at this point, Obama has a better chance of becoming president than McCain, and as a result, the questions ought to be going toward him as much or more than McCain -- questions not of tactics but of substance.

Obama has dealt deftly with the economic crisis -- at least in a political sense. Unlike McCain, he was fairly calm during the first days after Lehman's collapse and the government bailout of AIG.

He stayed in close contact with Henry Paulson and Ben Bernanke and with Democratic congressional leaders. He both embraced the sense of urgency to act on the $700 billion bailout package and offered criticisms of the administration's initially sketchy plan. His criticisms were in line with changes that Congress made before eventually approving the package.

But it's not clear that he has had any better ideas -- or put them forward more aggressively -- than Paulson and Bernanke when it comes to dealing with the crisis in the credit markets. It's not clear that he has pushed ideas that would have dealt with the crisis more effectively. At every turn, he has voiced support for the general course the administration has outlined, but he's not been far out ahead.

Nor is it evident that he has dealt realistically with the impact the economic crisis may have on the next president. He has not backed away from ambitious plans for a second stimulus package, for dramatically expanding health care, for reducing dependence on foreign oil or for other spending plans that long have been part of his campaign agenda.

Changing circumstances have not changed his view of what can or should be done if he becomes president. It would be helpful to voters to know now, rather than after the election, whether he will take a zero-based look at everything and rearrange priorities.

It is hard to think of a new president who inherited such a rapidly altered landscape. Franklin Roosevelt inherited a country in crisis, but the crash on Wall Street began years before he was elected in 1932. The 44th president's world has been turned upside down in a matter of months, and literally on the eve of the election.

How adaptable is Obama to all of this? How willing is he to address these questions in real time, as opposed to later? How much time has he given recently to rethinking the scope and ambition of a possible Obama administration? Would he come to office with a determination to be bold or to be cautious? Is he the pragmatist that allies have suggested -- or committed to a more ideologically oriented agenda, as his critics say?

Other questions that ought to be raised include what his commitment to bipartisanship amounts to at this point. He has talked about turning the page on old politics throughout his campaign. What does that mean?

All hard-fought campaigns become more partisan toward the end, but how much would that color Obama's approach, should he end up in the Oval Office? Will he hew closely to the wishes of Democratic congressional leaders or will he demonstrate some independence from them in an effort show the country what he might to do create a broader coalition as president? Will he do anything before the election to signal what he thinks?

McCain has begun this week with a fresh stump speech, a "fighting McCain" persona and the determination of an underdog, which is always where he is most comfortable. Speaking in Virginia Beach on Monday morning, he said with a smile:

"We have 22 days to go. We're 6 points down. The national media has written us off. Senator Obama is measuring the drapes, and planning with Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid to raise taxes, increase spending, take away your right to vote by secret ballot in labor elections, and concede defeat in Iraq. But they forgot to let you decide. My friends, we've got them just where we want them."

His criticisms of Obama were not personal, as they've sometimes been in the past week, but substantive. He hopes to claw his way back into the race and he hopes that the polls could tighten as Election Day nears, and that, if that happens, the voters will take yet another look at their choices.

McCain has been criticized for raising questions about Obama that were seen as questioning his patriotism or his commitment to the values the country holds dear. But there ought not to be any moratorium on asking hard questions of both candidates right now, and especially of the Democratic nominee who sits in the pole position heading into the final three weeks




[Edited on 10/13/2008 by sibwlkr]

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/13/2008 at 07:00 PM
Hard questions like what?

Do you love the flag?

Are you a Muslim?

I heard he fathered two black kids, is that true?

Concerned troll is concerned. Nothing new.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/13/2008 at 07:42 PM
Yawn, typical Squatch respond, don't agree with him you're a "TROLL". What else is new with the "PC" crowd around here? Apparently, not much.
 

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  posted on 10/13/2008 at 07:52 PM
Politicians tend not to answer hard questions. That goes for McCain and Obama both.
 

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  posted on 10/13/2008 at 07:56 PM
quote:
Politicians tend not to answer hard questions. That goes for McCain and Obama both.


Absolutely right, they just tell people what they think the people want to hear. Is it any wonder that we got the goverrnment that we got? BS going in, BS coming out.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/13/2008 at 09:11 PM
Well, both candidates have had months to answer whatever questions that could be posed. McCain and Palin have dodged press conferences and opportunities time and time again. I think if anyone needs to answer some questions, its those two.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 01:34 AM
Why are there two of these threads?

I doubt Obama is going to read either one of them.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 05:52 AM
From a recent Dick Morris missive. Aprpos to this discussion:

"Voters face a choice between a Republican Party whose image has been destroyed by its Wall Street allies and a Democratic nominee whose spiritual advisor is Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Whose financial backer is Rezko. The man who provided the money for his first real job was William Ayers. And, now it appears, that the object of his financial largesse and the organization for which he was Illinois general counsel was ACORN, massively implicated in voter fraud, funded, in large part, by Obama's presidential campaign funds. Are we to elect such a man president? Are we to trust the party of Wall Street with four more years at the till? That is the dilemma that makes this election unstable and unpredictable. May the least worst man win!"

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 08:09 AM
Getting an early start on the distortion and lying today, RBK?

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 11:37 AM
quote:
From a recent Dick Morris missive. Aprpos to this discussion:

"Voters face a choice between a Republican Party whose image has been destroyed by its Wall Street allies and a Democratic nominee whose spiritual advisor is Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Whose financial backer is Rezko. The man who provided the money for his first real job was William Ayers. And, now it appears, that the object of his financial largesse and the organization for which he was Illinois general counsel was ACORN, massively implicated in voter fraud, funded, in large part, by Obama's presidential campaign funds. Are we to elect such a man president? Are we to trust the party of Wall Street with four more years at the till? That is the dilemma that makes this election unstable and unpredictable. May the least worst man win!"



Still no response to my post that the committee on which Ayers and Obama served was financed by Walter Annenberg and Annenberg's widow supports McCain. If Ayers was such a dangerous 'terrorist' then McCain's supporter saw fit to finance him in other endeavors. Explain that, someone, if you can.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 11:51 AM
quote:
quote:
From a recent Dick Morris missive. Aprpos to this discussion:

"Voters face a choice between a Republican Party whose image has been destroyed by its Wall Street allies and a Democratic nominee whose spiritual advisor is Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Whose financial backer is Rezko. The man who provided the money for his first real job was William Ayers. And, now it appears, that the object of his financial largesse and the organization for which he was Illinois general counsel was ACORN, massively implicated in voter fraud, funded, in large part, by Obama's presidential campaign funds. Are we to elect such a man president? Are we to trust the party of Wall Street with four more years at the till? That is the dilemma that makes this election unstable and unpredictable. May the least worst man win!"



Still no response to my post that the committee on which Ayers and Obama served was financed by Walter Annenberg and Annenberg's widow supports McCain. If Ayers was such a dangerous 'terrorist' then McCain's supporter saw fit to finance him in other endeavors. Explain that, someone, if you can.


Ill wait patiently over here for Derek or someone to answer this...

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 11:55 AM
Just don't hold your breath.....it's been a couple of days now and still no takers from the 'right'.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 12:06 PM
quote:
how a terrorist becomes a terrorist without ever actually killing anybody.


Sometimes ineptitude can be your best friend...A nail bomb being constructed for a dance at Fort Dix exploded and killed three of his associates instead. If they weren't out to kill people, why were they trying to build nail bombs?

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 12:07 PM
I think the definition of terrorist would include acts of violence which would instill fear in someone or a group of people but not necessarily kill someone.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 12:12 PM
quote:
I'm also curious to know how a terrorist becomes Chicago's Citizen of the Year... Or how a terrorist becomes a professor at a world-renowned University... Or what kind of terrorist decides to dedicate their adult life to education reform...




Exactly...and again, why do you suppose a McCain supporter's husband give a substantial amount of money to that 'terrorist' if he was a dangerous person?

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 02:23 PM
quote:
I think the definition of terrorist would include acts of violence which would instill fear in someone or a group of people but not necessarily kill someone.


Not if you are politically allied with them. Then they become a freedom fighter.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 02:25 PM
quote:
I'm also curious to know how a terrorist becomes Chicago's Citizen of the Year... Or how a terrorist becomes a professor at a world-renowned University... Or what kind of terrorist decides to dedicate their adult life to education reform...

Or how a terrorist becomes a terrorist without ever actually killing anybody.


I knew it would come to this. Obama may not be so closely tied to him but this is was a bad guy and he is not the least bit sorry for what he did. It says something that you don't seme to have a problem with someone whose "group" advocated violent overthrow of the US government. And his idea of "educatino reform" is to teach how sucky America is and was. It has not done a thing to teach the poor children of Chicago how to read and write and do arithmetic.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 02:42 PM
quote:
I'm not sure how you can dismiss his efforts in education out of hand. And I'll also point out that learning about how sucky America has been in the past is a pretty important subject, in my opinion - those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it, right?


Not if you believe there are no problems here and America is perfect in every way. The old patriotism vs. nationalism deal.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 02:44 PM
It seems that many Obama supporters around here are somewhat upset that many people are questioning Obama's friendship with former radical Weatherman and domestic bomber, William Ayres. Granted Mr. Ayers has "cleaned up his act" and has become quite the "upstanding citizen" since those radical days, but nevertheless he has never apologized for his bombings. With that in mind I wonder if the "coin was flipped" and McCain had a freindship with and was introduced into nationall politics by a former Klansman, who bombed black churches during the civil rights era, if these very same Obama supporters who think Obama's friendship with William Ayers is "no big deal", would be willing to think the very same thing about McCain's friendship to an ex-Klansman, who like William Ayers "cleaned up his act" and became an "upstanding citizen" ? Somehow I think we would be hearing a lot of "self-righteous" fury about "How Could" a Presidential candidate associate with such a person with a disreputable past, no matter how much that person might have "cleaned up their act" in the years since. And if that would be the case, then many Obama supporters would be showing exactly how big of hypocrites they really are.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 02:49 PM
quote:
quote:
I'm also curious to know how a terrorist becomes Chicago's Citizen of the Year... Or how a terrorist becomes a professor at a world-renowned University... Or what kind of terrorist decides to dedicate their adult life to education reform...




Exactly...and again, why do you suppose a McCain supporter's husband give a substantial amount of money to that 'terrorist' if he was a dangerous person?


This is the most germane question and it is being roundly ignored. Why did the Annenbergs fund Bill Ayers to the tune of 50 million? Why is John McCain
not critical of the Annenbergs if it is truth and accountability he is after?

It's confusing isn't it? If a democratic group had funded Ayers the outrage here would be off the charts.

McCain put out an announcement yesterday mentioning his endorsement by Leonora Annenberg. I think he needs to be very careful if he brings up Ayers in the debate.

http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/news/PressReleases/1b838127-b4a0-4868-9 906-62f555376089.htm

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 02:49 PM
quote:
It seems that many Obama supporters around here are somewhat upset that many people are questioning Obama's friendship with former radical Weatherman and domestic bomber, William Ayres. Granted Mr. Ayers has "cleaned up his act" and has become quite the "upstanding citizen" since those radical days, but nevertheless he has never apologized for his bombings. With that in mind I wonder if the "coin was flipped" and McCain had a freindship with and was introduced into nationall politics by a former Klansman, who bombed black churches during the civil rights era, if these very same Obama supporters who think Obama's friendship with William Ayers is "no big deal", would be willing to think the very same thing about McCain's friendship to an ex-Klansman, who like William Ayers "cleaned up his act" and became an "upstanding citizen" ? Somehow I think we would be hearing a lot of "self-righteous" fury about "How Could" a Presidential candidate associate with such a person with a disreputable past, no matter how much that person might have "cleaned up their act" in the years since. And if that would be the case, then many Obama supporters would be showing exactly how big of hypocrites they really are.



Pretty heavy stuff from a guy that continues to ignore everything about McCain's past including his Annenberg connection. Not interested in calling it both ways, huh?

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 03:02 PM
quote:
This is the most germane question and it is being roundly ignored. Why did the Annenbergs fund Bill Ayers to the tune of 50 million?


They shouldn't have. Plain and simple. And mayor Daley blowing smoke up Ayers dress shouldn't happen either. All I need to see is the speech that I keep posting of Ayers in Venezuala only TWO YEARS AGO where he praises Chavez and agrees with Hugo that education for children should be used as a tool of socialist/communist revolution. That was in 2006. That is all I need to hear, and the liberals refuse to comment on this speech. Why? What are you afraid of??

quote:
Why is John McCain
not critical of the Annenbergs if it is truth and accountability he is after?



He should be.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 03:05 PM
quote:
http://billayers.wordpress.com/2006/11/07/world-education-forum/


World Education Forum
Centro Interncional Miranda
Caracas, Venezuela

November , 2006

President Hugo Chavez, Vice-President Vicente Rangel, Ministers Moncada and Isturiz, invited guests,comrades. I’m honored and humbled to be here with you this morning. I bring greetings and support from your brothers and sisters throughout Northamerica. Welcome to the World Education Forum! Amamos la revolucion Bolivariana!

This is my fourth visit to Venezuela, each time at the invitation of my comrade and friend Luis Bonilla, a brilliant educator and inspiring fighter for justice. Luis has taught me a great deal about the Bolivarian Revolution and about the profound educational reforms underway here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chavez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution, and I’ve come to appreciate Luis as a major asset in both the Venezuelan and the international struggle—I look forward to seeing how he and all of you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane. Thank you, Luis, for everything you’ve done.

I also thank my youngest son, Chesa Boudin, who is interpreting my talk this morning and whose book on the Bolivarian revolution has played an important part in countering the barrage of lies spread by the U.S. State Department and the corrupted Northamerican media.

On my last trip to Caracas I spoke of traveling to a literacy class—Mission Robinson— in the hills above the city along a long and winding road. As we made our way higher and higher, the talk turned to politics as it inevitably does here, and someone noted that the wealthy—here and everywhere, here and in the US surely—have certain received opinions, a kind of absolute judgment about poor and working people, and yet they have never traveled this road, nor any road like it. They have never boarded this bus up into these hills, and not just the oligarchy or the wealthy—this lack of first-hand knowledge, of open investigation, of generous regard is also a condition of the everyday liberals, and even many of the radicals and armchair intellectuals whose formulations sit lifeless and stifling in a crypt of mythology about poor people. Everyone should come and travel these roads into the hills, we agreed then—and not just once, but again and again and again – if they will ever learn anything of the real conditions of life here, surely, but more important than that, if they will ever encounter the wisdom and experience and insight that lives here as well.

We arrived at eight o’clock to a literacy circle already underway being conducted in a small, poorly-lit classroom. And here in an odd and dark space, a sun was shining: ten people had pulled their chairs close together—a young woman maybe 19, a grandmother maybe 65, two men in their 40s—each struggling to read. And I thought of a poem called A Poor Woman Learns to Write by Margaret Atwood about a woman working laboriously to print her name in the dirt. She never thought she could do it, the poet notes, not her– this writing business was for others. But she does it, prints her name, her first word so far, and she looks up and smiles— for she did it right.

The woman in the poem—just like the students in Mission Robinson—is living out a universal dialectic that embodies education at its very best: she wrote her name, she changed herself, and she altered the conditions of her life. As she wrote the word, she changed the world, and another world became—suddenly and surprisingly—possible.

I began teaching when I was 20 years old in a small freedom school affiliated with the Civil Rights Movement in the United States. The year was 1965, and I’d been arrested in a demonstration. Jailed for ten days, I met several activists who were finding ways to link teaching and education with deep and fundamental social change. They were following Dewey and DuBois, King and Helen Keller who wrote: “We can’t have education without revolution. We have tried peace education for 1,900 years and it has failed. Let us try revolution and see what it will do now.”

I walked out of jail and into my first teaching position—and from that day until this I’ve thought of myself as a teacher, but I’ve also understood teaching as a project intimately connected with social justice. After all, the fundamental message of the teacher is this: you can change your life—whoever you are, wherever you’ve been, whatever you’ve done, another world is possible. As students and teachers begin to see themselves as linked to one another, as tied to history and capable of collective action, the fundamental message of teaching shifts slightly, and becomes broader, more generous: we must change ourselves as we come together to change the world. Teaching invites transformations, it urges revolutions small and large. La educacion es revolucion!

I taught at first in something like a Simoncito—called Head Start—and eventually taught at every level in barrios and prisons and insurgent projects across the United States. I learned then that education is never neutral. It always has a value, a position, a politics. Education either reinforces or challenges the existing social order, and school is always a contested space – what should be taught? In what way? Toward what end? By and for whom? At bottom, it involves a struggle over the essential questions: what does it mean to be a human being living in a human society?

Totalitarianism demands obedience and conformity, hierarchy, command and control. Royalty requires allegiance. Capitalism promotes racism and militarism – turning people into consumers, not citizens. Participatory democracy, by contrast, requires free people coming together voluntarily as equals who are capable of both self-realization and, at the same time, full participation in a shared political and economic life.

Education contributes to human liberation to the extent that people reflect on their lives, and, becoming more conscious, insert themselves as subjects in history. To be a good teacher means above all to have faith in the people, to believe in the possibility that people can create and change things. Education is not preparation for life, but rather education is life itself ,an active process in which everyone— students and teachers– participates as co-learners.

Despite being under constant attack from within and from abroad, the Bolivarian revolution has made astonishing strides in a brief period: from the Mission Simoncito to the Mission Robinson to the Mission Ribas to the Mission Sucre, to the Bolivarian schools and the UBV, Venezuelans have shown the world that with full participation, full inclusion, and popular empowerment, the failings of capitalist schooling can be resisted and overcome. Venezuela is a beacon to the world in its accomplishment of eliminating illiteracy in record time, and engaging virtually the entire population in the ongoing project of education.

The great Chilean poet Pablo Neruda wrote a poem to his fellow writers called “The Poet’s Obligation” in which he instructed them in their core responsibility: you must, he said, become aware of your sisters and brothers who are trapped in subjugation and meaninglessness, imprisoned in ignorance and despair. You must move in and out of windows carrying a vision of the vast oceans just beyond the bars of the prison– a message of hope and possibility. Neruda ends with this: it is through me that freedom and the sea will call in answer to the shrouded heart.

Let those of us who are gathered here today read this poem as “The Teacher’s Obligation.” We, too, must move in and out of windows, we, too, must build a project of radical imagination and fundamental change. Venezuela is poised to offer the world a new model of education– a humanizing and revolutionary model whose twin missions are enlightenment and liberation. This World Education Forum provides us a unique opportunity to develop and share the lessons and challenges of this profound educational project that is the Bolivarian Revolution.

Viva Mission Sucre!
Viva Presidente Chavez!
Viva La Revolucion Bolivariana!
Hasta La Victoria Siempre!


 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 03:07 PM
Ive commented on that speech several times now. What, exactly, are you looking for?

I know you are against education, hell, you demonstrate your allergy to it on a daily basis around here, but dont sit there and try to sell the idea that education is a bad thing to everyone else when its you and others sit around pushing this woefully desperate association of Obama while ignoring a much greater one with McCain. Keep flailing.

Im still waiting for you to post where I said I supported Ayers and his educational policies.

You can post those anytime now. Anytime at all. Ill just be here.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2008 at 03:18 PM
quote:
quote:
how a terrorist becomes a terrorist without ever actually killing anybody.


Sometimes ineptitude can be your best friend...A nail bomb being constructed for a dance at Fort Dix exploded and killed three of his associates instead. If they weren't out to kill people, why were they trying to build nail bombs?


They DID kill a cop in San Francisco in '71 or so..

Comrade Ayers has no doubt received innumerable citizenship awards in Chicago. There is no greater cesspool of crooked democrat politics on this earth than in the Windy City so it would be unusual if they didn't give that traitor innumerable awards..

 

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