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Sublime Peach





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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 04:59 AM
...

[Edited on 10/23/2008 by jerryphilbob]

 
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True Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 07:04 AM
quote:
I am going to go out on a limb and say that Biden absolutely slaughters Palin tonight. She will certainly not help McCain and now it looks as though McCain has thrown in the towel on this thing. Just think if he had picked Romney? I guess he didn't want to win. Biden will look much more presidential and with McCains age, people will want to have confidence in Palin as the the President, and she can't get that job done.

This election is probly over and I predict Obama will win by a landslide.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CV8Xt2VWvc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g

[Edited on 10/2/2008 by jerryphilbob]

 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 07:37 AM
You are either A) trying to bait people or B) kidding. Palin will probably come across as having "won" after this debate even though, hopefully, that won't mean much. As many people in the media have said, she has set the bar SO LOW that anything short of her calling Biden a name and running off the stage in tears will be considered a victory for her. Of course since she is receiving special treatment as a woman (an embarrassment to many women) anything at all that sniffs of "confrontational" or "putting her on the spot", even though they know exactly what will be asked will be called out by her supporters as "an attack"...so not only may she win, she actually can't lose.

If she doesn't fall flat on her face and come out with a few more forehead-slappers but still fails to answer a single question with a real answer her supporters will be chanting victory. sad, really sad.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 07:48 AM
quote:
You are either A) trying to bait people or B) kidding. Palin will probably come across as having "won" after this debate even though, hopefully, that won't mean much. As many people in the media have said, she has set the bar SO LOW that anything short of her calling Biden a name and running off the stage in tears will be considered a victory for her. Of course since she is receiving special treatment as a woman (an embarrassment to many women) anything at all that sniffs of "confrontational" or "putting her on the spot", even though they know exactly what will be asked will be called out by her supporters as "an attack"...so not only may she win, she actually can't lose.

If she doesn't fall flat on her face and come out with a few more forehead-slappers but still fails to answer a single question with a real answer her supporters will be chanting victory. sad, really sad.


I agree. All she has to do is not put her foot in her mouth for most of the night and it'll be portrayed by the media and the McCain camp as a victory. Of course, for those of us with half a brain, we're more curious about her actual politics than her ability to speak in complete sentences. I only hope the viewing public actually scrutinizes what she says and not just how she says it. But in this age of mediocrity, that may be wishful thinking and far too much to hope for.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 07:50 AM
quote:
You are either A) trying to bait people or B) kidding. Palin will probably come across as having "won" after this debate even though, hopefully, that won't mean much. As many people in the media have said, she has set the bar SO LOW that anything short of her calling Biden a name and running off the stage in tears will be considered a victory for her. Of course since she is receiving special treatment as a woman (an embarrassment to many women) anything at all that sniffs of "confrontational" or "putting her on the spot", even though they know exactly what will be asked will be called out by her supporters as "an attack"...so not only may she win, she actually can't lose.

If she doesn't fall flat on her face and come out with a few more forehead-slappers but still fails to answer a single question with a real answer her supporters will be chanting victory. sad, really sad.


I disagree. This is a mean old world in which we all reside. There are Evil people out there who do wish to do us great harm. They can sense weakness and will attack it for the sport. Gov. Palin has accepted the challenge of being a "Heartbeat" away from the most powerful position in the world. I want to see how she reacts if Joe Biden hits her hard. I wish to see her make some points that are rooted in integrity, strength and honesty. But... if she falls and Joe Biden just stands there and watches, only to wait for the moment when he can pounce with killer instinct...just remember, this is a stage she has chosen to be on. Don't you dare say she didn't ask for this. This is the real world, a very mean, cold world and Gov. Palin must prove she is capable of standing up to the task.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 08:13 AM
Clearly Biden should win - easily. But all that Palin really needs to do, to make an adequate showing, is to not look cute and stand by her man. Even she should be able to handle that.



 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 08:24 AM
quote:
I am going to go out on a limb and say that Biden absolutely slaughters Palin tonight.


Thats not going out on a limb, thats a foregone conclusion.

quote:
This election is probly over and I predict Obama will win by a landslide.


Dont be so sure. Everyone thought the same thing in 04 and look what happened.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 08:38 AM
quote:
I want to see how she reacts if Joe Biden hits her hard. I wish to see her make some points that are rooted in integrity, strength and honesty.


By "make points that are rooted in integrity..." do you mean like ""I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you." --Sarah Palin, asked by Katie Couric to cite specific examples of how John McCain has pushed for more regulation in his 26 years in the Senate, CBS interview, Sept. 24, 2008"? You've gotta hand it to her though....she is very honest about her ignorance....but is that on purpose?

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 08:38 AM
As far as the election is concerned, I believe it's far from over. I still think the race issue may overshadow the ineptitude of the Republican ticket and result in a win for McCain. Not to mention I have little faith in the voting process and wouldn't be entirely surprised if we have many of the same irregularities of the 2000 and 2004 elections.
 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 08:41 AM
I really think they will be very professional and it will be a good debate ..everything else is conjecture at this point.. good luck to them both...

 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 08:45 AM
Remember, the format has changed. This gives them both even less time to say nothing at all.


Don't Blame Gwen Ifill If the Veep Debate Sucks WHAT A STUPID FORMAT.By Jack Shafer
Posted Wednesday, Oct. 1, 2008, at 5:19 PM ET

A 90-minute televised window through which we've been invited to compare the political stands, leadership abilities, and temperaments of vice-presidential candidates Sarah Palin and Joe Biden is about to open.

The organizer of the Oct. 2 face-off at Washington University is calling the event a "debate." But like the McCain vs. Obama session that preceded it—overseen by the same outfit—the Washington University matchup will demand less from the veep candidates than a five-minute appearance on Meet the Press. The rules governing its operation all but guarantee it. So if the debate ends up revealing less about Palin's and Biden's positions than can be found on a bumper sticker, if either candidate escapes tough questions and seeks refuge in homey anecdotes, if the debaters stop talking scant seconds after they start, don't blame moderator Gwen Ifill of PBS. Blame the format.

Negotiations between the McCain and Obama campaigns resulted in a 90-minute format that calls for the two candidates to stand at podiums and field questions in turn from moderator Ifill. Answers may not exceed 90 seconds, and two minutes of open discussion will follow each question. Each candidate will give a 90-second closing statement.

According to the New York Times, the McCain campaign pushed for this arrangement, which is more restrictive than the two-minute-response, five-minutes-of-open-discussion format of the first McCain-Obama debate, because the looser "format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive."
How much can a candidate say in 90 seconds? Depending on his or her mouth speed, somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 to 300 words. During the 2004 vice-presidential debate between Dick Cheney and John Edwards, the candidates were allowed 120 seconds per question, and they rarely spoke more than 400 words. (The rules that year allowed for 90-second rebuttals and discussion-extension intervals at the moderator's discretion.) To give you a sense of the brevity of 400 words, this article is just passing the 300-word mark.

Whether you give a candidate 90 or 120 seconds to speak, abbreviated formats leave the weakest ones plenty of room to hide. Because no rule forces the candidate to burn all of the allotted time answering the question, he can evade complexity and nuance by giving a rehearsed 30-second sound bite, especially if there is no provision for a follow-up question—which there usually isn't. And as we observed in the Sept. 26 McCain-Obama debate, the referee can't force the combatants into an "open discussion" if they choose not to punch: "I'm just determined to get you all to talk to each other," frustrated moderator Jim Lehrer said early in that debate.

The veep format at Washington University favors Palin, if Andrew Halcro is any guide to her debate techniques. Halcro repeatedly debated Sarah Palin in their contest for the job of Alaska governor in 2006. He writes in today's Christian Science Monitor that Palin was the "master of the nonanswer" in debates. He continues: "During the campaign, Palin's knowledge on public policy issues never matured—because it didn't have to. Her ability to fill the debate halls with her presence and her gift of the glittering generality made it possible for her to rely on populism instead of policy."
We all have estimates about how long Sarah Palin could speak about nuclear proliferation, health care, immigration, the Wall Street bailout, the Iraq war, or the Kyoto Treaty without resorting to homilies and canned phrases. But force Joe Biden to go long on any one of those topics and who knows what sort of trouble his motormouth would get him into? Biden usually requires 90 seconds just to warm up and lubricate his vocal cords, after which he reliably barks some ridiculous gaffe. The 90-second maximum protects both veep candidates from their weaknesses.

The Cheney-Edwards debate from 2004, also moderated by Ifill, provides a preview of how inconsequential these bouts can be. Approaching the transcript, I expected a bloody prizefight between two heavyweights. Instead, I found two bantams on their bicycles, backpedaling. Ifill asked each candidate only 10 questions, with most of the 90-minute session given over to tedious rebuttals and responses. The day after the Cheney-Edwards debate, the Washington Post concluded that "the format was calculated to keep the fireworks subdued" and that the calculation had paid off.
WorldNetDaily suggests this week that Ifill's forthcoming book, The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama, may compromise her performance as moderator because the book's success depends on the success of the Obama campaign. (See also Michelle Malkin and Tim Graham at the Media Research Center.) Might Ifill take a dive for Joe Biden before an audience of tens of millions in hopes of increasing sales of a book scheduled for release in January? That doesn't square with common sense, nor does it square with what I know about Ifill's work. If you're interested in her thoroughness and fairness as a moderator and have caffeine enough to read the entire Cheney-Edwards debate transcript, do so. You'll see that she conducted herself in a completely professional—and boring—manner.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 08:46 AM
It will be interesting!!

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 10:23 AM
That was too funny. Fay is dead on.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdDqSvJ6aHc

[Edited on 10/2/2008 by jerryphilbob]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 10:52 AM
quote:
It will be interesting!!
And quite possibly painful!

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 11:02 AM
I'll start to watch it.

Once it hits the "I'm too embarrassed to watch this" point, I'll switch over to the baseball playoffs.

That should take between 5 and 10 minutes.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 11:04 AM
The problem I see with Palin is, she seems to really think she's pulling it off. Lack of substantial substance has worked dfor her in other debates and I'm certain she's sure she'll make a good showing.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 11:53 AM
We should play a drinikng game with this debate. Each time she says 'maverick' or 'executive experience', or answers with a talking point not related to the question you have to take a shot. The AA version would be, ummm, how about a drink for each grammatically correct sentence she says?

I remember this Monty Python sketch where the heavyweight champ takes on Rebeccah of Donnybrook Farm. Although, as this is a debate for VP, we should have very high expectations from both Palin and Biden, based on Sarah's performance on interviews, she seems to be stupid. Never underestimate someone who appears stupid that has been elected to any position.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 12:16 PM
quote:
We should play a drinikng game with this debate. Each time she says 'maverick' or 'executive experience', or answers with a talking point not related to the question you have to take a shot.


Hell, just an "official" count will entertain me. How about an over / under?

 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 12:48 PM
quote:
We should play a drinikng game with this debate. Each time she says 'maverick' or 'executive experience', or answers with a talking point not related to the question you have to take a shot. The AA version would be, ummm, how about a drink for each grammatically correct sentence she says?
LOL - there's going to be some wasted individuals out there tonight!!!

 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 02:21 PM
I believe Palin probably is a good debater when she has a grasp of the subject matter that she is debating. She seems to be somewhat smart. However, she is not debating about bridges to nowhere or oil pipelines in Alaska or the thinning of wolvepacks.

She obviously to me anyway, has very little grasp of any of the main issues that face our country and that is why I don't think she will do very well tonight.

I think John McCain will be kicking himself tonight for the choice he made. He will start to picture all of the other candidates that could have been up there debating for him.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 02:24 PM
Nah. Tonight will be all script. I don't see her blowing it. Remember that she was seen as underqualified before the Convention speech, and when she pulled that off, she was widely celebrated.
 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 02:31 PM
Apparently, Governor Palin is going on the attack:

quote:
Palin’s new plan: Go after Biden
By MIKE ALLEN | 10/2/08 1:37 PM EDT

ST. LOUIS — Sarah Palin plans to go on the attack in tonight’s debate, hitting Joe Biden for what she will call his foreign policy blunders and penchant for adopting liberal positions on taxes and other issues, according to campaign officials involved in prepping her for tonight’s showdown.

The Palin camp is projecting surprising self-confidence in the pre-debate hours, despite the vice presidential nominee’s uneven — and, at some points, peculiar — performances in recent television interviews, the officials say. Top advisers to John McCain privately say Palin’s recent CBS interview was a borderline disaster, especially since it played out in several segments over several days. Tonight will be different, they say.

“This is going to finally put her back into a position where we see her like we saw her the first couple weeks,” a McCain official said. “She was herself. She was authentic, and people related to that. ... Tonight, she’ll get into a rhythm. You’re going to see her in a way that you haven’t seen her yet.”

By contrast, Biden plans what an aide calls "a just-the-facts, prosecutorial approach laying out the case against McCain and defending Obama." The aide said Biden will be "keeping the eye on the target, which is McCain."

It is hard to imagine higher stakes for a vice presidential nominee on the national stage. Palin wowed even her biggest skeptics with her spirited introduction to the American people at the Republican National Convention last month. It’s been downhill since then, however. She has been largely sheltered from unscripted moments on the campaign trail. And, when she has exposed herself to improvisation or tough questioning, Palin has been criticized for offering vague and at times unusual responses.

Palin advisers say that she remains just as popular with much of the Republican base as she was a month ago when her convention speech was hailed as a home run. But her ratings have eroded in polls since then, and the advisers see the 90-minute debate at 9 p.m. Eastern as a chance for a swift turnaround from what they call “negativity” in her news coverage.

From her debate playbook, as described by McCain officials:

— Throw Biden’s own words back at him.

“There’s going to be a lot of opportunities to use Joe Biden’s words against him — and not his gaffes,” an official said. “When he says raising taxes is patriotic, that’s a policy position. That’s what he believes. She’s going to use those against him.”

(On ABC’s “Good Morning America” last month, in explaining the need for the wealthiest Americans to pay more taxes, Biden said: “It's time to be patriotic ... time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut.”)

— Highlight past Biden foreign-policy positions as a way to undermine his core strength.

“He’s a celebrated foreign policy expert, but he has been wrong … dating back to the Reagan administration,” the official said. “There are opportunities there for her to jump in.”

One example that was provided was Biden’s reference to North Korea as “a paper tiger” on CBS’s “The Early Show” in 2006. (“I would rather have seen it do exactly what it did, demonstrate to the whole world that it is in fact a paper tiger.”)

Another example noted by the campaign was voting for defense cuts during the Reagan administration, and voting against the first Gulf war in 1991. (PolitiFact.com points out that he voted with the majority of Senate Democrats on the resolution.)

— Highlight places where Biden and Barack Obama have differed, including primary-season statements about Obama’s readiness to lead and his positions on Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.

“He voted for the Iraq war, and Obama said that was poor judgment,” the official. “There are a lot of wedge positions between Obama and Biden.”

McCain officials say they are optimistic despite her falling credibility and likability in polls.

“Nobody who’s in the middle of a campaign takes a minute to panic,” an aide said. “Every single day, there’s an ebb and flow — that’s what makes these things exciting. She’s been there before. She’s done this before. She’s been successful. And we as a campaign expect she will rise to the occasion and be strong."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14220.html


 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 03:26 PM
I am wondering if this will be entertaining to watch her make a fool of herself, or if it will just be painfully embarrasing.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 03:31 PM
quote:
I am wondering if this will be entertaining to watch her make a fool of herself, or if it will just be painfully embarrasing.


Something tells me she won't be that bad, and the moderator controversy gives her campaign an easy out to boot.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2008 at 03:43 PM
quote:
As far as the election is concerned, I believe it's far from over. I still think the race issue may overshadow the ineptitude of the Republican ticket and result in a win for McCain. Not to mention I have little faith in the voting process and wouldn't be entirely surprised if we have many of the same irregularities of the 2000 and 2004 elections.



you mean race issues amongst democrats and independents? i agree that that would be terrible.

 

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