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Author: Subject: House Votes Down Rescue Package

Ultimate Peach





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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 01:00 PM
Here we go.....................

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 01:11 PM
quote:
Here we go.....................


Well, the market isn't reacting nearly as wildly as I thought it would. I honestly expected a 1000+ point drop as soon as the vote started and even more when they tanked it, but there's still a couple hours of trading left , so we'll see.

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 01:22 PM
Very controversial issue for them as House Representatives on both sides had been saying for days the overwhelming amount of calls and emails they received urging their vote against the measure.

Clearly both sides felt considerable pressure to not support it. 95 Democrats voted against it and something like 133 Republicans.

I don't even know exactly where I stand on it.



[Edited on 9/29/2008 by nebish]

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 01:33 PM
I'm not sure either...there's an exceptional article in the WSJ today about the ripple effect that Lehman had in triggering a global cash crunch and proved to be the turning point in this crisis leading to the bailout.

If Lehman's collapse had that kind of effect, I think the Fed's hand will be forced to keep others afloat to forestall the same kind of chain reaction, so we could end up funding the bailout deal by deal, rather than under a large plan. That might be considerably worse.

But there were some provisions in the current plan that I really didn't like.

Sovereign Bank is taking a beating today and could be next.

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 01:36 PM
And, Nance Pelosi opened her googly-eyed big f*cking mouth before the vote and pissed off the republicans.

- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.): "The party is over. How did [the current crisis] sneak up on us? Almost on little cat feet? Democrats like the free market. But the free market, as encouraged by some Republicans, has not created jobs, has not created capital; it has created chaos."

Lame, especially in light of the C-Span video out today from a congressional hearing in 2004 where the Democrats are saying that there isn't a problem with Fannie mae and freddie mac, and Franklin Raines is doing a great job. One after another, bitching about regulations for fannie and freddie, and it is amazing;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs


Meanwhile, ultimately the American people's outrage is what caused both republicans and democrats to vote against this bill. Hats off to the Democrats who followed the House Republican's lead on this and voted 'No." While we have to be careful and something should be done, the DOW plunged 700 points at one point today, the first vote being no is a good thing. Bush and Paulsen presented an initial bail out bill that let the golden parachutes stand and gave Paulsen and the Treasury secretary carte blanch with unlimited power. The Democrats, on the other hand, tried to veer %20 percent of the bail out to lame organizations such as ACORN and La Raza. Apparently, however, the phones and emails lit up the House offices and that combined with Pelosi opening her mouth led to this amazing "No" vote.

Derek

[Edited on 9/29/2008 by DerekFromCincinnati]

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 01:41 PM
good lord there goes the rest of my 401K I worked hard to save into for nothing. I should have wasted much more of it on fun things.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 01:45 PM
DFC this is so much beyond politics and the usual partisan bickering. The shakeout from this could drastically impact the standard of living for all of us and our children. This isn't the time for partisanship and "I told you so" and taking credit.

The real problem in all this is that George Bush has no credibility, no support and no political capital. Even a President with a 40% approval rating could address the nation, lay out a vision to solve this and get the public and Congress behind it. But Bush in his lame duckness, and plain lameness period, is powerless to influence a solution.

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 01:51 PM
I'm surprised and happy that Congress didn't go for the "let's do something even if it is wrong" mentality in Washington these days.

I don't know how this is going to effect the economy or the election, but the plot definitely thickens.

It's kind of hard to believe all this is happening.

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:04 PM
Seeing as its just about the end of Q3 when you get your account statments for the various invesment plans you have, you will see what effect nancy pelosi has had on the eonomy today. A bunch of school kids would have voted that through if it wasn't an election year and she didn't feel that she had to scold everyone one last time. Pathetic.
700billion will seem like a rounding error as this parabolic decline continues in all asset classes.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:06 PM
An issue this important and this large and it failed because some Republicans got offended at something Pelosi said?

Sheesh. Republicans are bigger pu$$ies than I thought. Country first!

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:09 PM
Hawk come on, you're usually pretty fair about things, Democrats voted against it too. And this from Yahoo Finance doesn't paint either party particularly well because NEITHER is thinking country first.

"Republicans supplied less votes than Democrats had expected, convincing Democrats to vote against the bailout bill so as not to put their seats at risk," Clusterstock's John Carney reports. "Both parties are now negotiating vote trading, with the Democrats arguing the Republicans should get at least 9 more of their members to vote 'Yea,' bringing the Republican favorable votes up to significantly. At issue, many on the Hill believe, how many seats each party should put at risk by voting for this deeply unpopular bailout."

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/78142/House-Rejects-Bailout-St ocks-Tumble?tickers=%5EDJI,%5EGSPC,%5EIXIC,AAPL,SPY,DIA,GOOG


[Edited on 9/29/2008 by Gregallmanfan]

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:14 PM
quote:
Hawk come on, you're usually pretty fair about things, Democrats voted against it too. And this from Yahoo Finance doesn't paint either party particularly well because NEITHER is thinking country first.

"Republicans supplied less votes than Democrats had expected, convincing Democrats to vote against the bailout bill so as not to put their seats at risk," Clusterstock's John Carney reports. "Both parties are now negotiating vote trading, with the Democrats arguing the Republicans should get at least 9 more of their members to vote 'Yea,' bringing the Republican favorable votes up to significantly. At issue, many on the Hill believe, how many seats each party should put at risk by voting for this deeply unpopular bailout."

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/78142/House-Rejects-Bailout-St ocks-Tumble?tickers=%5EDJI,%5EGSPC,%5EIXIC,AAPL,SPY,DIA,GOOG



I'm with you on that take on it.

My previous response is specifically to the spin that it failed only because of something Pelosi said...which is even more ridiculous since it's already coming from sources that are against the damn thing in the first place!

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:15 PM
quote:
DFC this is so much beyond politics and the usual partisan bickering. The shakeout from this could drastically impact the standard of living for all of us and our children. This isn't the time for partisanship and "I told you so" and taking credit.



Then why in the hell did the San Fransican Dolt Pelosi open her big mouth and bring partisanship into the debate moments before the vote?? Please explain that to me.

And her lame ass just came out before the cameras minutes ago and continued the partisan BS, talking about how the Democrats did their part. Well, yes they did with the many of them joining with the Republicans who are going against their own president and voted against this bill as it stands.

quote:
An issue this important and this large and it failed because some Republicans got offended at something Pelosi said?

Sheesh. Republicans are bigger pu$$ies than I thought. Country first!




There were a lot of politicians on the fence, both democrat and republican. She didn't help matters at all. She is an idiot.

quote:
The real problem in all this is that George Bush has no credibility, no support and no political capital. Even a President with a 40% approval rating could address the nation, lay out a vision to solve this and get the public and Congress behind it. But Bush in his lame duckness, and plain lameness period, is powerless to influence a solution.




I agree completely. But if Bush having clout means a bill where the Treasury Secretary has absolute power over 700 Billion of the peoples money and they leave trhe golden parachutes intact, no thanks.

And then the Democrats try to veer 20 percent of the bail out to organizations like ACORN and La Raza. Huh??

The American people are the ones putting the heat on Congress. Good. Make them sweat, make them work.

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:18 PM
If the Dem's had enough votes to push it through, why did they not pass it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:18 PM
quote:
An issue this important and this large and it failed because some Republicans got offended at something Pelosi said?

Sheesh. Republicans are bigger pu$$ies than I thought. Country first!





So what are your thoughts on the Democrats who voted against this bill, Bhawk??

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:18 PM
Yes, I agree, it's petty to use her speech as the reason for not voting. It's a cheap shot, but her speech did open her up to it. But it's a red herring.

But I believe only 60% of Dems voted for it. Sounds like there was some very careful tallying of votes so as few had to take the "blame" as possible to still pass it. This kind of thing really disgusts me all around.

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:21 PM
quote:
Yes, I agree, it's petty to use her speech as the reason for not voting. It's a cheap shot, but her speech did open her up to it. But it's a red herring.

But I believe only 60% of Dems voted for it. Sounds like there was some very careful tallying of votes so as few had to take the "blame" as possible to still pass it. This kind of thing really disgusts me all around.



Great response.

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:21 PM
If there are pu$$ies in all of this it is the Senate who has decided to not vote on this until Wednesday, letting the House take two days of sh*t over it.

They need to regroup and figure it out - TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DH

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:25 PM
quote:
But if Bush having clout means a bill where the Treasury Secretary has absolute power over 700 Billion of the peoples money and they leave trhe golden parachutes intact, no thanks.


IMO, the best analysis of the "golden parachute" executive comp issue: From the WSJ today:

"The details of the taxpayer "protections" in the bill also seem workable, at least based on what we had heard by deadline yesterday evening. Banks that sell more than $300 million in securities to Treasury will only be able to deduct from their taxes $500,000 in compensation for their five most senior executives.

Something like this was inevitable as political cover, and it's hard to argue that the Italian suits at Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley don't deserve everything they won't get if they dump their mistakes on the feds. But one unintended consequence will be to drive the most talented financial managers away from these banks and into hedge funds and private equity, where they won't be subject to such compensation caps. Revenge is overrated as a policy design."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122264821035984089.html



 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:26 PM
I think it is time for The Maverick to suspend his campaign again.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:33 PM
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
But if Bush having clout means a bill where the Treasury Secretary has absolute power over 700 Billion of the peoples money and they leave trhe golden parachutes intact, no thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



IMO, the best analysis of the "golden parachute" executive comp issue: From the WSJ today:

"The details of the taxpayer "protections" in the bill also seem workable, at least based on what we had heard by deadline yesterday evening. Banks that sell more than $300 million in securities to Treasury will only be able to deduct from their taxes $500,000 in compensation for their five most senior executives.

Something like this was inevitable as political cover, and it's hard to argue that the Italian suits at Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley don't deserve everything they won't get if they dump their mistakes on the feds. But one unintended consequence will be to drive the most talented financial managers away from these banks and into hedge funds and private equity, where they won't be subject to such compensation caps. Revenge is overrated as a policy design."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122264821035984089.html




I basically agree, as if you are a CEO who brings incredible growth to a company, you should get paid big time through the nose. I also agree with the editor of Barons, however, that CEO compensation should be a fixed base amount and the rest strictly tied to growth of the company while they are there, up or down. Still, if a CEO runs a company into the ground and the government has to take over or keep it afloat, that is when it changes, that is when the golden parachutes go out the window as far as I am concerned.

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:35 PM
you all don't see the set-up?

Pelosi knows she doesn't have the votes. She gives her tidy little speech, rallying troops she knows aren't there. She calls for the vote. (if she were honest, she'd have never called for it...)

It fails. She blames the republicans but she had to have known in the first place she didn't have the votes but blaming the republicans is a great political move.

She played politics in this more than anyone did. She couldn't muster up 12 more votes from the 94 Dems. that voted nay? c'mon....

This was a brilliant political move on her part...the witch.

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:39 PM
quote:
An issue this important and this large and it failed because some Republicans got offended at something Pelosi said?

Sheesh. Republicans are bigger pu$$ies than I thought. Country first!


OR, there is more to it than might be reported. Maybe Peelosi and her cohorts didn't let the Republicans know about the last meeting ort maybe Pelosi and company wanted to see what they could get out of the funding for themselves.
Or maybe the American people have finally have had enough of the effing political posturing with their money at stake.

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:40 PM
Well, the story for the past few days has been that the Democrats were not going to pass this thing by themselves, and let the Republicans off the hook, so they could use their vote against them. Apparently they had agreed that each side would furnish half the votes to pass this bill, but the Republicans reneged. Let's remember this proposal first came out of the Republican White House.

I agree that playing partisan politics over this crisis is unacceptable, on both sides of the aisle. These idiots are playing with people's lives, and the future of this country. I really hope that one result of Obama winning in Nov. is that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi will step down, and let some real leaders step up.


[Edited on 9/29/2008 by SantaCruzBluz]

 

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  posted on 9/29/2008 at 02:42 PM
quote:
quote:
An issue this important and this large and it failed because some Republicans got offended at something Pelosi said?

Sheesh. Republicans are bigger pu$$ies than I thought. Country first!





So what are your thoughts on the Democrats who voted against this bill, Bhawk??


I am for a bailout in the forms of prudent financial relief as this mess in its enormity can have a devistating effect on the country and the economy. So, in that regard, I'm disappointed.

However, you yourself are against the bailout. Shouldn't you be patting Pelosi on the back? I don't like her either and I never have.

You inferred that the bill failed because some Republicans got upset that Pelosi insulted them. If that's the kind of Republicans there are on the Hill, then perhaps they need to check their own fortitude.

 

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