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Author: Subject: Could Duane....

Peach Master





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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 07:26 AM
read sheet music. You would think being a studio man required it, and I read "skydog" but honestly cant remember and dont feel like reading it AGAIN. Being self taught, it would be hard to learn that on your own. I am self taught, and cant read **** , but can play along to most songs I put on.

Also, I would bet that many of the old blues greats couldnt read music, how the hell did they put together songs with eachother? If a couple of them in the session can read sheet music, and the guitar/drummer cant, what to do?? Did they have tabs back then?

Proof you dont need to have that skill: Stevie Ray Vaughan, who talks about it on one of my favorite albums, "Albert King/Stevie Ray Vaughan - In Session"

 
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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 07:43 AM
quote:
read sheet music. You would think being a studio man required it, and I read "skydog" but honestly cant remember and dont feel like reading it AGAIN. Being self taught, it would be hard to learn that on your own. I am self taught, and cant read **** , but can play along to most songs I put on.

Also, I would bet that many of the old blues greats couldnt read music, how the hell did they put together songs with eachother? If a couple of them in the session can read sheet music, and the guitar/drummer cant, what to do?? Did they have tabs back then?

Proof you dont need to have that skill: Stevie Ray Vaughan, who talks about it on one of my favorite albums, "Albert King/Stevie Ray Vaughan - In Session"
I don't think he was able to, but rather relied on his inherent talent, perceptions, experience, and so on to make his contributions.

The Beatles couldn't either, but they did all right

Billastro

 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 08:02 AM
my guess would be he couldnt

he probably used chord charts

 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 11:52 AM
Most of the great rock musicians couldn't and cannot.

 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 12:05 PM
I'm 1/2 way through "Skydog" right now.
No, Duane could not read music.
But they showed him the chord changes once, and then he'd have it.

Hendrix was another player that couldn't read music.

Reminds me of an inside guitar players joke.

How do you get a guitar player to stop playing?
Put a sheet of music in front of him....

 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 12:20 PM
Duane could play anything. Rock, blues, jazz, country, just give him the song
and turn him loose....amazing.
Jam for Duane- Oct 31/Nov 1 in Gadsden, Alabama.....all are welcome.
Buy a ticket to help this event....all for Duane.

 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 12:37 PM
quote:
I'm 1/2 way through "Skydog" right now.


Awesome book...really enjoyed the insights to Duane's philosophy on playing music...eventhough I'm no musician...it really shows when a musician is playing from the heart and not just trying to imitate someone...from what I read THAT was what Duane was all about....really enjoyed that book!

 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 01:57 PM
I believe it was Mark O'Conner who was asked one time if he read and wrote music, and his response was, "Not enough to hurt my playing."

 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 02:19 PM
I think at the time Duane was a session guy it would be expected for him to read

[Edited on 9/17/2008 by illness]

 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 02:47 PM
Duane's contributions on these sessions didn't require him to play a prewritten part. All he needed was the style, key, and possible chord changes. He would improvise most of it. Any good musician can handle that. Of course, most would not be able to take it to the level that Duane could.
 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 03:22 PM
Re: the Beatles
Paul McCartney has composed classical music, most recently compositions dedicated to his late wife, Linda. Seems like he would have to be able to read music.

 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 04:24 PM
When Paul McCartney was composing classical music, I believe that he had to sing the various parts to a music transcriber who in turn would write it out. That is still pretty amazing, as it required him to be able "hear" all the parts in his head and be able to vocalize them. He is an amazing talent.
 

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  posted on 9/17/2008 at 07:30 PM
Duane couldn't read charts--didn't need to:

quote:
In his quest to be the lead guitarist in Muscle Shoals, Allman had to work hard to overcome one slight handicap: he couldn't read the number charts used by the other musicians. "He wasn't able to read charts," Jimmy Johnson recalls, "but you could play a song for him on a demo, or just somebody with an acoustic guitar, and it was unbelievable. We'd be looking at the sheet, following it along, and Duane would be standing there memorizing it. In one pass he could remember every chord and everything about it. It totally amazed us. You always hear about people like this, but you never meet 'em. Duane had that ability."

...

It would seem that Duane's purpose for wanting to do ["Hey Jude" with Wilson Pickett]--and do it his way--was multifaceted. For starters, the record would, in fact, become a hit on both the R&B and pop charts, just as he predicted. Secondly, by coercing Pickett, Hall, and his fellow musicians to record a song he already knew, Duane--unable to read the number charts--avoided the embarrassment of having to ask the other musicians to play an unfamiliar song through one time so he could learn it while Wilson Pickett sat around waiting for the hippie to figure out the damn changes. Thirdly, Duane obviously had developed a general idea of what he would play on "Hey Jude"--and what he would play on that song in that session on that day was so remarkable, it would change his life forever.


--Randy Poe, Skydog: The Duane Allman Story, pp. 82, 83-84.

 

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  posted on 9/18/2008 at 01:12 PM
quote:
Duane's contributions on these sessions didn't require him to play a prewritten part. All he needed was the style, key, and possible chord changes. He would improvise most of it. Any good musician can handle that. Of course, most would not be able to take it to the level that Duane could.



This may have been true if the sesion player was well know or had a desired "signature sound". Correct me if I'm wrong ,but Duane's reputaion was established by these sessions and subsequently his work with the Allmans. Therfore to get into to session work at that time and that musical climate, he would have certainly had to be able to read the charts that were put in front of him.

 

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  posted on 9/18/2008 at 02:44 PM
I read Randy Poe's book when it came out (enjoyed it), but I really don't remember how Duane got his foot in the door with session work. Some of you out there are surely more familiar with Duane's total body of session work than I am. But, most of the work that I've heard has been what I would call "icing on the cake". The regular session guys are handling the basic tracks. When Duane comes in with a lead part (regular or slide), he doesn't need to be able to read notation or charts. What Duane offered, that the "studio" guys may have lacked, was a hip contemporary sound that was added to the mix. I can imagine a dialogue like, "Hey Duane - this is a minor blues in the key of C." Or if it was a song with an unusual twist in the chord changes, Duane would probably make a mental note of it and adapt his contribution around that. It really isn't that difficult. It's just that Duane had that "special something" that took it to a higher level.
 

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  posted on 9/18/2008 at 03:06 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Duane's contributions on these sessions didn't require him to play a prewritten part. All he needed was the style, key, and possible chord changes. He would improvise most of it. Any good musician can handle that. Of course, most would not be able to take it to the level that Duane could.



This may have been true if the sesion player was well know or had a desired "signature sound". Correct me if I'm wrong ,but Duane's reputaion was established by these sessions and subsequently his work with the Allmans. Therfore to get into to session work at that time and that musical climate, he would have certainly had to be able to read the charts that were put in front of him.

Reading charts and reading "sheet music" are 2 different things.



The only difference between "charts" and standard sheet music is that a chart has all the exact instrument parts written out as they to be played note for note as compared to generalized chords and melody found a sheet music.

 

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  posted on 9/18/2008 at 03:32 PM
A chart is a chart, whether it is written in:

staff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_(music),

Nashville numbers http://www.nashvillenumbers.com/main.html

or guitar tab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_tab#Guitar_tab.

I think the OP refers to whether Duane could read staff, and I would say he didn't read staff.

 

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  posted on 9/18/2008 at 06:02 PM
Boo, a link to buy a book.
I can read music, but self taught myself. It is very easy to learn, I don't see how it hurts. But a friend of mine asked me if I knew numbers and this Nashville number system is the first I came across something like he was describing. Do the number indicate the interval between the notes (3rd, minor 3rd, etc.) or the chord (like 1 4 5) for the 1st, 4th, 5th chord in the scale? Help me save a few bucks since I am guessing it is one of the two and can be explained in a couple sentances instead of a whole book.

 

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  posted on 9/18/2008 at 09:23 PM
I was right

 

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  posted on 9/19/2008 at 09:11 AM
Nashville number system: If the tune is in "A", then "A" is the number "1". "B" would be "2' and so on. One will always be the key of the song and the rest of the scale will be 2 thru 7. There are other notations in this system, but that is the basic premise. Session players can write an arrangement for a song in a matter of minotes. Even today, quite a few of the top sesion players don't read music (staff). Jack Pearson doesn't read music, but put some numbers in front of him.................
 

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  posted on 9/19/2008 at 09:21 AM
1-4-5 is easy enough. I've been put on the spot many times by having a song called off that I didn't know. All I have to do is ask, "What key?" They'd perhaps answer, "It's in G, comes in on the 4," and I'd be on it. I've played many songs for the first time through simply by having someone tell me when to go to the 1, 4 or 5. Most country and blues rely on 1-4-5.

 

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  posted on 9/19/2008 at 09:38 AM
I am not a player, but can pick out some tunes on keyboard by ear. I was reading some of Chuck Leavells blog on his website. He talked about a new program that hooks to his piano and computer that prints out what he plays in to sheet music. I think there are many musicians out there that do not read sheet music. A lot play by ear.

I can read a little, remembering from my piano lessons when I was a kid.

 

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  posted on 9/19/2008 at 11:45 AM
quote:
Nashville number system: If the tune is in "A", then "A" is the number "1". "B" would be "2' and so on. One will always be the key of the song and the rest of the scale will be 2 thru 7. There are other notations in this system, but that is the basic premise. Session players can write an arrangement for a song in a matter of minotes. Even today, quite a few of the top sesion players don't read music (staff). Jack Pearson doesn't read music, but put some numbers in front of him.................


Jack really doesn't read? Wow, he's so technical, I wouldn't have guessed that

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/19/2008 at 11:55 AM
I am self taught, can't read and don't know a whole lot of theory but this has helped me a lot when it comes to writing and figuring out things on the fly..


it starts with the major scale..you know, the "Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do"....
there are 8 notes in every major scale...

if you put them into chord form , you get, what i believe is called a "Harmonized Scale"...

in the key of C major it would look something like this..

Cmaj Dm, Em, Fmaj, Gmaj , Am, Bm, Cmaj

it is really helpful if you are stuck in I-IV-V land to play with these other chords..

the you can add 7th's ect and really go into head on thoery...

hope that helps..

you owe me nothing..

 

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  posted on 9/19/2008 at 12:00 PM
this is pretty cool

http://www.torvund.net/guitar/scales/Harm-C7-chords.asp

 

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