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Author: Subject: Controversial postings - Liberal style vs. Conservative style

A Peach Supreme





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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 09:39 AM
Disclaimer: This is anecdotal and subjective.

I've been posting (initiating and responding) here for several years. As far as I can tell, the posts from Liberals tend to be a lot more emotional, confrontational, accusatory, and hyperbolic than those from Conservatives. Obviously there are exceptions (I've gotten a bit worked up on occasion; conversely, some of the most vehement Liberals have sometimes been thoughtful and reasonable). But by and large, I stand by this assessment.

As a political Conservative (with some Libertarian thoughts in the mixture) and evangelical/charismatic Christian, I run into disagreements with coworkers and some family members. I've had extended debates with family on the opposite end of the spectrum; I've had disagreements with a former Marxist coworker. Even though there's very little philosophical common ground among the ones I exchanged pov's with, the one standard factor was common courtesy and decency. Nobody ever accused anyone of lying or the equivalent. There was no screaming, there were no defiant demands to "put up or shut up" (the essence of the way many so-called debates here degenerate), and so on.

I see a lot more name-calling, etc., from the Left than from the Right. Lefties use the word "lie" and its variations a lot more than Righties. If Derek from Cincinnati were treated as viciously in print or broadcast form, he'd probably be able to sue at least one poster into poverty. But I digress.....

There are a few hard-core Liberals in particular who seem to come out breathing fire, and whose take-no-prisoners attitude is such a cliche that it's hard to take them seriously. I made a comparison to shooting fish in a barrel in another thread, and I think I was correct. My wife jokingly calls me Troublemaker, but believe me -- sometimes it's really hard not to post items that I know will rile up the predicitable folks here. I have a highly developed sense of whimsical mischief. When fueled by strong, hot coffee, sometimes I lose control

I know that if I post something from a Conservative perspective, sooner or later one of the liveliest Liberals here will join the fray, spar, or whatever you want to call it. Feelings run rampant to the extent that a few newbies (and one oldie, who goes back to the Hour Glass days) get fed up and question the sanity of some of this. When they do, the usual suspects are quick to electronically assault them with sarcasm and childishness.

The most appalling aspect to all this is that the Liberals of America tout the importance of tolerance, but are among the most intolerant individuals I'm aware of, bar none. Recently, for example, I cited Jonah Goldberg (a quick "search" will locate the postings). Some Lefty called him an unprintable name, and told me never to post his name here again. So much for tolerance.

Yet on the other hand, the disagreements from Conservatives generally seem to be more thought out, more reasoned through.

Remember, this is subjective and anecdotal. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Perspectives? Disagreements (is this a redundant question?)? Answers?

Billastro

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 09:44 AM
Good luck getting rational replies

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 09:45 AM
quote:
My wife jokingly calls me Troublemaker, but believe me -- sometimes it's really hard not to post items that I know will rile up the predicitable folks here.


I think this is why you (and others) get such "emotional" responses...it is exactly what you (and others) are going for much of the time. Some people might even call that trolling, but whatever.

[Edited on 9/12/2008 by gondicar]

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:09 AM
The conservative and liberal posts on the forum reflect what is going on in the campaign, and the formal and informal media. Go to factcheck and see how the conservatives have lied and lied and rather than acknowledging their lies they keep telling the same one’s over and over again. It's an insult to democracy.

I would say that 90% of the right wing posts on this forum are simple reiterations of the lies conservatives are generally telling. And people are fed-up.


quote:
Blizzard of Lies
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Did you hear about how Barack Obama wants to have sex education in kindergarten, and called Sarah Palin a pig? Did you hear about how Ms. Palin told Congress, “Thanks, but no thanks” when it wanted to buy Alaska a Bridge to Nowhere?

These stories have two things in common: they’re all claims recently made by the McCain campaign — and they’re all out-and-out lies.

Dishonesty is nothing new in politics. I spent much of 2000 — my first year at The Times — trying to alert readers to the blatant dishonesty of the Bush campaign’s claims about taxes, spending and Social Security.

But I can’t think of any precedent, at least in America, for the blizzard of lies since the Republican convention. The Bush campaign’s lies in 2000 were artful — you needed some grasp of arithmetic to realize that you were being conned. This year, however, the McCain campaign keeps making assertions that anyone with an Internet connection can disprove in a minute, and repeating these assertions over and over again.

Take the case of the Bridge to Nowhere, which supposedly gives Ms. Palin credentials as a reformer. Well, when campaigning for governor, Ms. Palin didn’t say “no thanks” — she was all for the bridge, even though it had already become a national scandal, insisting that she would “not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that’s so negative.”

Oh, and when she finally did decide to cancel the project, she didn’t righteously reject a handout from Washington: she accepted the handout, but spent it on something else. You see, long before she decided to cancel the bridge, Congress had told Alaska that it could keep the federal money originally earmarked for that project and use it elsewhere.

So the whole story of Ms. Palin’s alleged heroic stand against wasteful spending is fiction.

Or take the story of Mr. Obama’s alleged advocacy of kindergarten sex-ed. In reality, he supported legislation calling for “age and developmentally appropriate education”; in the case of young children, that would have meant guidance to help them avoid sexual predators.

And then there’s the claim that Mr. Obama’s use of the ordinary metaphor “putting lipstick on a pig” was a sexist smear, and on and on.

Why do the McCain people think they can get away with this stuff? Well, they’re probably counting on the common practice in the news media of being “balanced” at all costs. You know how it goes: If a politician says that black is white, the news report doesn’t say that he’s wrong, it reports that “some Democrats say” that he’s wrong. Or a grotesque lie from one side is paired with a trivial misstatement from the other, conveying the impression that both sides are equally dirty.

They’re probably also counting on the prevalence of horse-race reporting, so that instead of the story being “McCain campaign lies,” it becomes “Obama on defensive in face of attacks.”

Still, how upset should we be about the McCain campaign’s lies? I mean, politics ain’t beanbag, and all that.

One answer is that the muck being hurled by the McCain campaign is preventing a debate on real issues — on whether the country really wants, for example, to continue the economic policies of the last eight years.

But there’s another answer, which may be even more important: how a politician campaigns tells you a lot about how he or she would govern.

I’m not talking about the theory, often advanced as a defense of horse-race political reporting, that the skills needed to run a winning campaign are the same as those needed to run the country. The contrast between the Bush political team’s ruthless effectiveness and the heckuva job done by the Bush administration is living, breathing, bumbling, and, in the case of the emerging Interior Department scandal, coke-snorting and bed-hopping proof to the contrary.

I’m talking, instead, about the relationship between the character of a campaign and that of the administration that follows. Thus, the deceptive and dishonest 2000 Bush-Cheney campaign provided an all-too-revealing preview of things to come. In fact, my early suspicion that we were being misled about the threat from Iraq came from the way the political tactics being used to sell the war resembled the tactics that had earlier been used to sell the Bush tax cuts.

And now the team that hopes to form the next administration is running a campaign that makes Bush-Cheney 2000 look like something out of a civics class. What does that say about how that team would run the country?

What it says, I’d argue, is that the Obama campaign is wrong to suggest that a McCain-Palin administration would just be a continuation of Bush-Cheney. If the way John McCain and Sarah Palin are campaigning is any indication, it would be much, much worse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/12/opinion/12krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opini on&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:12 AM
quote:
As far as I can tell, the posts from Liberals tend to be a lot more emotional, confrontational, accusatory, and hyperbolic than those from Conservatives.
I totally disagree with you here, Billastro, but also do not necessarily include you with some of the non-Liberal posters who seem especially confrontational and accusatory to me (the racial profilers and name callers come immediately to mind - haven't seen that from the 'Liberal posters' like I have from their counterparts).

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:17 AM
This place needs Mills Lane.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:18 AM
quote:
Lefties use the word "lie" and its variations a lot more than Righties


quote:
would say that 90% of the right wing posts on this forum are simple reiterations of the lies conservatives are generally telling. And people are fed-up.



What do you mean Bill? ;-)


 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:19 AM

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:20 AM
quote:





"Let's get it on" !!!!

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:22 AM
"you and your kind start the name calling and start the downward spiral of the thread"

"no we don't, you do"

"no we don't, you do"

"nope"

"yep"


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:25 AM
quote:
"you and your kind start the name calling and start the downward spiral of the thread"

"no we don't, you do"

"no we don't, you do"

"nope"

"yep"




I'm getting mom!

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:25 AM
quote:
This place needs Mills Lane.
LOL!! Let's get it on!

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:32 AM
that's the problem, Bill. Our "varied perspectives" have pretty much been beaten to death. I think every single person that posts in political threads knows where the other one stands on their candidate/issues. Has anyone's mind been changed?

you'd think that since everyone knows where everyone stands, there'd be some juicy discussions in some threads but for some reason,they always devolve into name-calling and a search for some hidden meaning behind a veiled comment, as if it were so important.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:34 AM
quote:
that's the problem, Bill. Our "varied perspectives" have pretty much been beaten to death. I think every single person that posts in political threads knows where the other one stands on their candidate/issues. Has anyone's mind been changed?

you'd think that since everyone knows where everyone stands, there'd be some juicy discussions in some threads but for some reason,they always devolve into name-calling and a search for some hidden meaning behind a veiled comment, as if it were so important.
Amen.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:37 AM
quote:
I think you are off base, but it isn't the first time I have felt that way about you.
Likewise!
quote:
Actually, I asked you why all you do is start Obama bashing threads? Why don't you start a thread telling me all of McCain's good points and why I should vote for him. So far all I see from the Conservatives are threads that attack Obama, but don't tell me why I should vote for McCain. At this point, I have to assume you don't think he is worth voting for.
Good point.

Here are four reasons I prefer McCain: I'd rather have a Commander in Chief with military experience who probably understands better the nature of some of our enemies (no nice word for this).

Second, I want someone who's pro-life, and -- sorry about the apparent bashing -- I consider Obama's known record in the whole realm of abortion, poartial-birth abortion (=infanticide), and survivors-of-abortion to be abysmal. I figure the next POTUS will appoint one, possibly two, justices to the Supreme Court. I think McCain's nominees will be far closer to my values than Obama's.

Third, 72 isn't as subjectively old as it used to be, both for me and for society in general. I'm going to be 60 next April. In addition, more and more Americans are staying vital into their 80s and 90s than when I was growing up in the '50s. I think McCain's perspective and experience outweighs Obama's.

Fourth, I prefer McCain's general conservatism. It's not as much as I'd like to see, but he's the best option. I say "best" because the more conservative runners are non-issues, not likely to gain more than a fraction of a percent or so.

I acknowledge that McCain screwed up badly in the way he handled his first marriage. I make no excuses.

Billastro

 

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—Daniel Boone

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:39 AM
quote:
quote:
Lefties use the word "lie" and its variations a lot more than Righties
quote:
would say that 90% of the right wing posts on this forum are simple reiterations of the lies conservatives are generally telling. And people are fed-up.

What do you mean Bill? ;-)
Ya got me!

Billastro

 

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"I can't say as ever I was lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."



—Daniel Boone

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:44 AM
quote:
I'm going to be 60 next April.



Jeez, you sure you have the right name? Old Time Fan seems more appropriate!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:44 AM
quote:
Disclaimer: This is anecdotal and subjective.

I've been posting (initiating and responding) here for several years. As far as I can tell, the posts from Liberals tend to be a lot more emotional, confrontational, accusatory, and hyperbolic than those from Conservatives. Obviously there are exceptions (I've gotten a bit worked up on occasion; conversely, some of the most vehement Liberals have sometimes been thoughtful and reasonable). But by and large, I stand by this assessment.


Strange, I see it completely the other way.

quote:
As a political Conservative (with some Libertarian thoughts in the mixture) and evangelical/charismatic Christian, I run into disagreements with coworkers and some family members. I've had extended debates with family on the opposite end of the spectrum; I've had disagreements with a former Marxist coworker. Even though there's very little philosophical common ground among the ones I exchanged pov's with, the one standard factor was common courtesy and decency. Nobody ever accused anyone of lying or the equivalent. There was no screaming, there were no defiant demands to "put up or shut up" (the essence of the way many so-called debates here degenerate), and so on.


Its simple: If you make a claim, support it. So many of you guys dont.

quote:
I see a lot more name-calling, etc., from the Left than from the Right. Lefties use the word "lie" and its variations a lot more than Righties.


Speaking only for myself, those on the Right tend to put forth a lot less honest information than those on the Left, so yeah. If you are lying or repeating a lie, Im going to call you on it and support my claim.

quote:
If Derek from Cincinnati were treated as viciously in print or broadcast form, he'd probably be able to sue at least one poster into poverty. But I digress.....


Im sure Derek appreciates the support, but several of us are very aware of Derek and his allergy to the truth. Maybe if you yourself had been maligned to the degree that myself and others have, you would understand this.

quote:
There are a few hard-core Liberals in particular who seem to come out breathing fire, and whose take-no-prisoners attitude is such a cliche that it's hard to take them seriously.


Again, speaking for myself, Im sick of the dishonest crap. I get tired of the same old blame the Dems for everything even though they control nothing in our government.

quote:
I made a comparison to shooting fish in a barrel in another thread, and I think I was correct. My wife jokingly calls me Troublemaker, but believe me -- sometimes it's really hard not to post items that I know will rile up the predicitable folks here. I have a highly developed sense of whimsical mischief. When fueled by strong, hot coffee, sometimes I lose control


Yeah, youre just full of whimsy.

quote:
I know that if I post something from a Conservative perspective, sooner or later one of the liveliest Liberals here will join the fray, spar, or whatever you want to call it.


Isnt human nature amazing?

quote:
Feelings run rampant to the extent that a few newbies (and one oldie, who goes back to the Hour Glass days) get fed up and question the sanity of some of this. When they do, the usual suspects are quick to electronically assault them with sarcasm and childishness.


Yep, its always those on the Left that are at fault. I dont know how you blameless conservatives manage to take it.

quote:
The most appalling aspect to all this is that the Liberals of America tout the importance of tolerance, but are among the most intolerant individuals I'm aware of, bar none.


You might have a lot of whimsy, but you lack vision.

quote:
Recently, for example, I cited Jonah Goldberg (a quick "search" will locate the postings). Some Lefty called him an unprintable name, and told me never to post his name here again. So much for tolerance.


I think you are missing the interpretation of tolerance. I dont see putting up with dishonesty, lies, distortions and slander as tolerance, I see it as being browbeat.

quote:
Yet on the other hand, the disagreements from Conservatives generally seem to be more thought out, more reasoned through.


Oh yeah... wow.

quote:
Remember, this is subjective and anecdotal. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.


Youre not wrong as you cant be on something subjective like this, but you are clearly one sided in your observation.

quote:
Perspectives? Disagreements (is this a redundant question?)? Answers?


This thread should be epic...

Billastro

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:46 AM
Of the two candidates, McCain seems less likely to grow the size of government.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:47 AM
I live in RI. My vote for McCain, mostly due to foreign policy, isn't worth the time to stick it in the ballot box. But I'm going for it anyway !!

maybe there'll be some cutie volunteers working there.

though thinking about it, it's usually women in their 90's, God bless 'em, that just needed to get out of the house for the day.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 10:47 AM
was that too controversial?
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 11:01 AM
I don't think it has anything to do with what side you're one, what flavor you like, or what team you play for. It's all about what kind of person you are.

There are plenty of sound thinkers on both sides of the debate that use a measure of logic and reason to support their comments. There's an equal number of emotional types who only listen to what they want to hear, make all their assesments from the heart instead of the head, and support their judgements with very little factual back up.

And there's very few that are 100% one way or the other. There's a whole spectrum that mixes the two together in varying degrees.

For me, there's way too many shades of gray to classify people so easily. I'll bet one thing; if we were all face to face debating these topics, we'd all be a lot more polite and willing to compromise than we appear from what is written in many of our posts. I'm certain that at the end of the day, we'd find a lot more to agree on than disagree on if we were forced to work these things out personally, face to face.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 11:02 AM
Well done, Rich.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 11:06 AM
that's very true, Rich.

I can't imagine certain things said here being said face to face.

nice post.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/12/2008 at 11:10 AM
quote:
I don't think it has anything to do with what side you're one, what flavor you like, or what team you play for. It's all about what kind of person you are.

There are plenty of sound thinkers on both sides of the debate that use a measure of logic and reason to support their comments. There's an equal number of emotional types who only listen to what they want to hear, make all their assesments from the heart instead of the head, and support their judgements with very little factual back up.

And there's very few that are 100% one way or the other. There's a whole spectrum that mixes the two together in varying degrees.

For me, there's way too many shades of gray to classify people so easily. I'll bet one thing; if we were all face to face debating these topics, we'd all be a lot more polite and willing to compromise than we appear from what is written in many of our posts. I'm certain that at the end of the day, we'd find a lot more to agree on than disagree on if we were forced to work these things out personally, face to face.
Thanks for putting it to words so well, Fuji - my sentiments exactly!

 

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