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Author: Subject: Original bands vs. the current line-up.......

Peach Master





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  posted on 7/19/2008 at 10:50 AM
Another topic started me thinking about ABB changes over the years. Is this really the ABB? Or just the current line-up of a band called the ABB? Same with the Stones? Did the RS really end when Mick Taylor left? I say the current ABB and RS are not the same band, the original bands days are long gone. The original band made them famous and the current line ups benift from the originals steps. When I hear kids or adults today say I am seeing the Stone or ABB. I just think to myself those bands ended many years ago. Do you really think a ABB concert today is the same as ABB at the Fillmore from 69 to 71 or the Warehouse? Same for RS today with the big light show vs Altmont in 69. I did not say they were not giving the fans what they went to see and knew what they were getting. To me it is almost as bad as the 50's bands that tour the car shows and street festivals and calling themselves the original band. I think Canned Heat is doing that. Leave a comment that can support your thought.
 
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Peach Master



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  posted on 7/19/2008 at 11:09 AM
Don't forget Mick Taylor wasn't an original
Stone either .. so a strict interpretation of
this idea is did RS end with firing/death of
Brian Jones ?

 

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  posted on 7/19/2008 at 12:46 PM
See your point but I guess I look at it that Gregg, Dickey, Keef, and Mick are not the same as they were in 1970. Or as Duane once said "ain't no revolution only evolution". Everything and everybody is evolving whether they want to or not. I'm grateful for what I have to listen to and see live.

 

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  posted on 7/19/2008 at 01:52 PM
Duane got it right......evolution of this music through the years..all good, just some better than others. Inevitable changes...

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 7/20/2008 at 11:56 AM
Good point about Brian Jones. I used Mick Taylor becasue RS was one of the peaks, some say the peak for them. Now with Duane's evelution thought would it be normal for a band to evolve and sometime down the line not be the original band. Example, one bactrium that would evolve into man. But I don't think bands form thinking about how they will turn out 30 years later. I think most of the guys in band no matter who it is thinks they should enjoy what they have because it will all be gone sooner or later.
 

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  posted on 7/20/2008 at 01:00 PM
There are only 4 living members of the original ABB, and 3 of them are still with the band.

Yes, this is the real Allman Brothers band.

 

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  posted on 7/20/2008 at 01:15 PM
quote:
There are only 4 living members of the original ABB, and 3 of them are still with the band.

Yes, this is the real Allman Brothers band.


I have to disagree. The "real" Allman Brothers Band, existed from it's inception... right up until Chuck Leavell joined. What we have here is a group of players that do an incredible job of keeping Duane's vision alive, but it ain't the "real" Allman Brothers Band.

 

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  posted on 7/20/2008 at 02:49 PM
You know the truth is they might keep ABB going in what fashion just so they have a job. Remember the band members have families to support, bills to pay, retirements to fund hell Greg has enough child support to pay that he would have to work 5 life times to get even. Band members are lucky they have jobs they love most of the time as do race car drives or what ever sport you follow but at the end of the day it is a job and need to be paid.
 

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  posted on 7/20/2008 at 09:09 PM
Since the Rolling Stones have been referenced 3 times in the posts above, I have this simple question:

If Keith and Mick pass on in the near future and Ronnie Wood and Charlie Watts add new players to take their place, Would they still be the Rolling Stones?


Joe Dude..Vocals
Jim Smith..Guitar
Ronnie Wood..Guitar
Mike Somebody..Bass
Charlie Watts.. Drums

The Rolling Stones?

 

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  posted on 7/20/2008 at 09:24 PM
I dig the Stones...but,I must agree that the "real" Stones ended when Brian was out of the band...Brian was the Stones,IMO.

 

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  posted on 7/20/2008 at 09:28 PM
Regardless, this is the band I'm happy to see every chance I get.

I don't sweat the small stuff.

 

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  posted on 7/20/2008 at 09:52 PM
Guess i'm the odd man out...I saw the Orig. ABB line-up w/Duane twice...& once w/Barry after Duane...& I've seen the current ABB line up live 3 times...& like 'em just as much.

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 08:07 AM
Most bands make their biggest impact when they first start out. It's tough to recreate that feeling of being fresh and new and bringing the world something they haven't heard before.

Let me respond to your question with another: Is ZZ Top still the same band they were in 1973? They have all the original members and haven't changed their sound very much, but based on what I've seen recently, the current version of the Allman Brothers is a lot closer to the glory days of ABB than ZZ Top is to the peak of "Tres Hombres."

In other words, there are more factors at play than how many original members you have.

 
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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 01:32 PM
quote:
An ABB concert nowadays is nothing like (or of importance) the early day. Sure - today's version is great, great players and all, but as far as a band writing a book on an innovative level, today's ABB isn't remotely close as to what the '69 - '71 version was.

Sorry - that's just truth.


I don't believe that's truth, I believe it's opinion.

My personal opinion on all this is, it doesn't matter. With any band, any lineup, you can call it whatever you want. Either you like the music or you don't. It's not a competition. It's not a sports game. it's music. Either it moves you or it doesn't. If they call it The Rolling Stones, then it's The Rollings Stones, if you don't like it as much as some other Rollings Stones stuff, then don't listen.

I don't mean that in a bitchy way, that's just the way I see it. There have been several times I have enjoyed bands after lineup changes, and in my opinion, have felt like the lineup changes brought more serious passion from the band.

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 01:55 PM
quote:
You know the truth is they might keep ABB going in what fashion just so they have a job. Remember the band members have families to support, bills to pay, retirements to fund hell Greg has enough child support to pay that he would have to work 5 life times to get even. Band members are lucky they have jobs they love most of the time as do race car drives or what ever sport you follow but at the end of the day it is a job and need to be paid.


I don't think Gregg is paying much child support anymore. I mean most of his children are in their thirties.

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 02:10 PM
quote:
quote:
An ABB concert nowadays is nothing like (or of importance) the early day. Sure - today's version is great, great players and all, but as far as a band writing a book on an innovative level, today's ABB isn't remotely close as to what the '69 - '71 version was.

Sorry - that's just truth.


I don't believe that's truth, I believe it's opinion.

My personal opinion on all this is, it doesn't matter. With any band, any lineup, you can call it whatever you want. Either you like the music or you don't. It's not a competition. It's not a sports game. it's music. Either it moves you or it doesn't. If they call it The Rolling Stones, then it's The Rollings Stones, if you don't like it as much as some other Rollings Stones stuff, then don't listen.

I don't mean that in a bitchy way, that's just the way I see it. There have been several times I have enjoyed bands after lineup changes, and in my opinion, have felt like the lineup changes brought more serious passion from the band.


I agree and consider this

The Original Band Was awesome and there will NEVER be another JUST like them. BUT in some ways this current line up blows them away. Not necessarrily better all the way around but far more precise and at the same time far more innovative.

Original ABB only had 27 - 30 songs to work with (more if you count some things the Bros did before ABB but did not use). However in any given tour show me where the rotation of songs exceded 20. Current line up in one tour will do 45 to 60 without a blink and do them very well, diffrent each night with a lot of creative shuffling and varions on arrangements.

Never heard what I could call an awesome Black Hearted Woman from the original line up. Current guys make it soar. Same with several other lesser or never played songs that were recorded by the original band. Duane & Berry could never be replaced. But I guarantee you they would be extremely impressed by Warren H. & Derek Trucks as well as Lamar, Woody & Oteil. They are not the same but certainly neither lineup is inferior.

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 02:12 PM
First off, Gregg's kids are grown up so I don't think he continues because he needs child support cash.

Is it a job for them? Of course it is. It would be rather hard to do this for 40 years without it being a career.

Are they the Allman Brothers Band? Yes that is what they are called and that is their company name.

Is it the same as the early days? Of course not but no band that has been around that long is.

Regardless of name, they are an amazing live act and people are lucky to still be able to see them.

Were the Stones better at Altamont? Sure if you like not hearing or seeing a band unless of course you are up front getting squashed or beaten. People seem to forget that the "good old days" had terrible sound systems, no monitor system for the bands to hear themselves. People can play now and hear what the hell they are doing and realize that they are out of tune. Imagine if Hendrix had actually heard himself and the band while playing? He was amazing as is so imagine how it could have been better. So many of his live shows have terrible sound and one of the best guitarists in rock history was constantly out of tune.

Yes the originals made them famous. Should the surviving members not benefit from their efforts?

Besides it is all opinion. I have a friend that thinks the orignal lineup's shows get boring because they are always the same setlist. He thinks Duane was amazing and it is too bad that all we have are him playing a handful of the same songs over and over.

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 02:14 PM
quote:


The Original Band Was awesome and there will NEVER be another JUST like them. BUT in some ways this current line up blows them away.


Are you high?.... If so, pass me a brownie

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 02:15 PM
quote:
"If Keith and Mick pass on in the near future and Ronnie Wood and Charlie Watts add new players to take their place, Would they still be the Rolling Stones?


Joe Dude..Vocals
Jim Smith..Guitar
Ronnie Wood..Guitar
Mike Somebody..Bass
Charlie Watts.. Drums

The Rolling Stones?"


OK, do you...and everyone else who is saying this lineup isnt "really" the ABB...feel that...

The Boston Celtics are composed of Bill Russell, John Havlichek, Sam Jones, Bailey Howell, Larry Siegfried, K.C. Jones, etc? And how dare this current group say that that THEY are the "Boston Celtics"

Now, I will agree that its a little different with a musical group, but I think the anaolgy is still legitimate.

The fact is that as time goes by changes are inevitable. Its a fact of life. Splits occur. People pass on, etc. The question is, how are the new members added?

Option 1) We take auditions. Whoever can "copy" so and so to a "T" gets the job.

Option 2) We bring in people who have been close to the group, have been friends or family members of the group, grew up loving the group, have played music similar to the group in the past, and who are simply...a "natural" fit.

If its option 2, then in my opinion it continues to be a "legitimate" expression of the original band.


"D"

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 02:23 PM
quote:
quote:
"If Keith and Mick pass on in the near future and Ronnie Wood and Charlie Watts add new players to take their place, Would they still be the Rolling Stones?


Joe Dude..Vocals
Jim Smith..Guitar
Ronnie Wood..Guitar
Mike Somebody..Bass
Charlie Watts.. Drums

The Rolling Stones?"


OK, do you...and everyone else who is saying this lineup isnt "really" the ABB...feel that...

The Boston Celtics are composed of Bill Russell, John Havlichek, Sam Jones, Bailey Howell, Larry Siegfried, K.C. Jones, etc? And how dare this current group say that that THEY are the "Boston Celtics"

Now, I will agree that its a little different with a musical group, but I think the anaolgy is still legitimate.

The fact is that as time goes by changes are inevitable. Its a fact of life. Splits occur. People pass on, etc. The question is, how are the new members added?

Option 1) We take auditions. Whoever can "copy" so and so to a "T" gets the job.

Option 2) We bring in people who have been close to the group, have been friends or family members of the group, grew up loving the group, have played music similar to the group in the past, and who are simply...a "natural" fit.

If its option 2, then in my opinion it continues to be a "legitimate" expression of the original band.


"D"




OK,....So, where are the Beatles?... Paul & Ringo are certainly capable of "Hiring" two more players. Why don't they?....No idea. Respect?

Also let's not forget that this version of the ABB makes it's money mostly on tunes form the past. This argument in favor of the current line-up, would have a lot more more merit if this group had put out, 5-6 CDs of NEW material that matched the NEW line-up. This group has no Identity of it's own.

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 02:43 PM
Check out any "classic" rock bands setlist and it will be comprised of mostly old material. If all the original members were alive and touring that would still be the case with them.

There is no need of an argument comparing various eras. Don't see how anyone would ever change anothers' opinion. If a person prefers the current lineup, they are not wrong. They just like it better.

Hard to use an example like the Beatles because their level of success and popularity made every member very famous. Having even one missing member would be very obvious. Ringo Starr is just a little more recognizable than Butch or Jaimoe. A large chunk of ABB fans would not even realize if one or the other wasn't there. Hell 8 years later and a large portion of the audience doesn't realize that Dickey is not there. The people here who live and breathe the band are a small percentage of those at shows.

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 02:52 PM
^ Good points, although I would have to disagree with the statement about Ringo being "Slightly more recognizable".....

As much as I think the current line-up of Skynyrd is riding the gravy train, I'll say this for them, they are writing and performing NEW material.

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 02:54 PM
quote:
"Also let's not forget that this version of the ABB makes it's money mostly on tunes form the past. This argument in favor of the current line-up, would have a lot more more merit if this group had put out, 5-6 CDs of NEW material that matched the NEW line-up. This group has no Identity of it's own."


The current group has new material. "Hittin' the Note". They still do songs off of that album. In adition, they have done multitudes of very appropriate covers that the original band never did.

And as some others have noted, some of the interpretations of the old songs that the current band does surpasses the original versions.

The current band did Statesboro Blues and Black Hearted Woman at the 2007 Farm Aid and they are the 2 best versions of those 2 songs I have ever heard...and I am old enough that I go back to the original group


"D"


 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 03:27 PM
quote:
quote:


The Original Band Was awesome and there will NEVER be another JUST like them. BUT in some ways this current line up blows them away.


Are you high?.... If so, pass me a brownie


Actually no I am not high. If I was I might understand where you are comming from.

Another very good point to those who say the current line up is riding on the songs from the Past. LOOK AT THE SET LISTS. Not just the variety but lots of songs the Original line up NEVER played or recorded.

Duane was a Genious and one of the things I appreciate most about him was his desire to play what ever he wanted - not what someone else thought the fans wanted. So they played lot's of covers. Try the Original band without:

Statesboro Blues
Trouble No More
Done Somebody Wrong
One Way Out
Stormy Monday
Don't Want You No More
Hoochie Coochie Man
Yes EVEN Mountain Jam was the ABB's Arrangement of Someone elses Song

I thank the Lord that Duane didn't limit his Band to "fresh original" songs. If he had, the 27 - 30 songs they did have would have been limeted to about 17 - 22 and there would have been ZERO variation in the set lists.

[Edited on 7/21/2008 by MountainPostJim]

 

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  posted on 7/21/2008 at 04:01 PM
The truth is that they played the covers because they didn't have enough songs. Also Duane didn't really write songs so that pretty much sums up what he would have added as original material.

Also there was very little variation in setlists anyway. Almost all the available Duane era shows have pretty much the same songs.

To further walk the line between the two sides of the debate, the current lineup definitely uses the original lineups songs as the bulk of their setlists. Sure they do some material from HTN and some covers but it is pretty much those songs that vary from night to night. The older material is always a large part of the set.

 

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