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Author: Subject: Fillmore 'Mountain Jam' the worst version?

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 09:27 AM
I just reread "Skydog: The Duane Allman Story" for the second time (three readings -- so far ) and was once again perplexed by a small point. IIRC, Randy quotes someone as saying that the Fillmore Concerts version of "Mountain Jam" is the worst version of all, or words to that effect?

Huh???

I like it a lot. While there are a few (very few) that smoke this one, it's mighty good, as far as I'm concerned.

What's wrong with it?

Billastro

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 09:29 AM
Its too short.

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 09:44 AM
quote:
Its too short.


Ludlow Garage was 44 mins

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 10:05 AM
quote:
Its too short.
I see your point. I'd love to hear what they sounded like when they really stretched themselves.

Too bad nobody recorded the Legendary Jacksonville Jam, the one at Butch's place that cemented and galvanized them.

Billastro

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 11:18 AM
I think Butch doesn't like the transistion between the bass solo and the second half. They seem to be a little loose in the rhythm section after Duane counts it off but once they hit tride it's one of the most amazing pieces of music I've heard....I love the twin guitar melody then the shuffle slide solo into the 6/8 jazz swing then down into "Will the circle be unbroken".....I was awestruck the first time I heard it.....and everytime I hear it I relive that moment

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 11:19 AM
LAFE Duane has the first solo right? Then Dickey starts with the bird whistles.

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 11:20 AM
Duane takes the first solo and also does the bird sounds at the end of Dickey's solo. Duane plays all the solo parts on the second half

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 01:17 PM
every version is the best version

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 02:09 PM
Isn't the Fillmore Concerts version the same version that's on Eat A Peach?

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 02:47 PM
It is the same version but with a new mix. Maybe that is what they are referring to when they say it's the worst. I lot of people complained about that set when it came out. I liked it as it was the first time all of those songs were together on one release. Tom Dowd did the remix. I do know that is where he cut and pasted songs together. I believe in the liner notes it said he did that to Liz reed and YDLM.

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 03:27 PM
quote:
Isn't the Fillmore Concerts version the same version that's on Eat A Peach?


Yes

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 04:45 PM
quote:
every version is the best version


I agree!!!!

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 04:47 PM
Because the EAP/Fillmore Concerts version of MJ is so ingrained in my brain, it's definitely my favorite. However, I am fully capable of enjoying other versions.

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 05:30 PM
I think if there were more multitrack mixes of the other mt. jams we would find some hidden magic in those like we do in the fillmore east version.

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 06:47 PM
I haven't read this book, but I remember reading somewhere Butch saying that they wanted to use a Mountain Jam that Duane played on for Eat A Peach, and of the recordings they had to choose from, this version was the best recording. There were others that they liked the playing better, but the recordings weren't as good. I'd like to hear the other Mountain Jams he was talking about!

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 06:58 PM
quote:
I haven't read this book, but I remember reading somewhere Butch saying that they wanted to use a Mountain Jam that Duane played on for Eat A Peach, and of the recordings they had to choose from, this version was the best recording. There were others that they liked the playing better, but the recordings weren't as good. I'd like to hear the other Mountain Jams he was talking about!


Kind of like a Mountian Jam Boxset

 

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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 07:20 PM
Butch doesn't like it because he makes a mistake on it.
 
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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 07:39 PM
quote:
I haven't read this book, but I remember reading somewhere Butch saying that they wanted to use a Mountain Jam that Duane played on for Eat A Peach, and of the recordings they had to choose from, this version was the best recording. There were others that they liked the playing better, but the recordings weren't as good. I'd like to hear the other Mountain Jams he was talking about!


I remember reading that too - it was either on this website or on the earlier version...

i think.

My memory isn't what it should be....

 
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  posted on 6/17/2008 at 08:14 PM
The other versions are certainly out there -- Atlanta Pop, 7/26/70 Stonybrook, 2/11/70 FEast, 3/19/71 & 9/16/71 Warehouse, & certainly the most recent find from the Georgia Terrace Hotel...
as Maconga says, they're all great -- there no such thing as a bad Mtn. Jam, not in the hands of these musicians...
Whether because of familiarity/quality of the recording or whatever, the EAP version will never be topped in my book

 

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  posted on 6/18/2008 at 07:11 AM
I wonder what was LOST from Fillmore shows in those days. I mean, reel-to-reel tapes of course had extreme limitations, and there weren't nearly as many tapers in those days. I talked to a dude once at an ABB show in Vegas around '97 who had been to some of the early Fillmore East shows. He said they would go on around midnight, and when you'd walk out, the sun was coming up. A good six hours or so.

 

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  posted on 6/18/2008 at 04:46 PM
quote:
Isn't the Fillmore Concerts version the same version that's on Eat A Peach?

Yes

 

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  posted on 6/18/2008 at 09:48 PM
check out the 5/23/70 atlanta show now circulating....
not the best sound quality, but one firey performance....
some of the finest duane and dickey i've ever heard....

 

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  posted on 6/18/2008 at 11:48 PM
quote:
Isn't the Fillmore Concerts version the same version that's on Eat A Peach?


Actually, there is a major difference in the Fillmore Concerts version. Tom Dowd edited in a different drums solo and it's not even mentioned in the liner notes. The rest of the jam is identical to EAP. This "new" solo may be better than the original but I'd prefer to hear the EAP jam "as is".

I noticed this change the first time I listened to the Fillmore Concerts and thought it was strange that Dowd didn't mention it because he did note the "spliced" versions of YDLM and IMOER.

From some old posts that I've read, the concensus seems to be that IMOER on the Fillmore Concerts isn't a spliced version (as stated in the liner notes) and is identical to AFE. But the first few times I listened to the "new" IMOER (back in the early 90's), I could hear a slight difference in the beginning of Dickey's solo. I recently went back and tried to hear the difference but couldn't. I guess I've heard both versions so many times that I can't tell any more. I'm going to try again.

Most people don't seem to like the Fillmore Concerts. While I do like the louder guitar mix of AFE & EAP, I like the Fillmore Concerts mix of Whipping Post & Mountain Jam, and maybe IMOER. On WP, during the slow part of Dickey's solo, you can really hear the little percussion parts. And Duane's ending coda sounds better. On MJ, even though Berry's bass has been softened some, you can really hear him, especially during Gregg's solo and then Dickey's solo. In the beginning of Dickey's solo you can really hear Gregg & Duane's rhythm parts. Duane's rythym guitar is cool. It's got a James Brown funk sound. So, for WP & MJ I think the mix is good because you can hear the entire band.

The EAP MJ is my all-time favorite piece of music. I understand why some would like other versions better. There is more all-out jamming in the Ludlow Garage, Atl Pop Festival, 2/11/70, and 5/70 (Peach Cobbler 6) versions. But the near-perfection of the EAP arrangement still blows me away. All six of the Brothers are togrther on everything and are playing close to perfection. Berry's main bass line is different and IMO is much better. Also, IMO, Berry's playing on the EAP MJ is the best bass I've ever heard. The opening of the jam is great. Duane & Dickey are so together on the intro and main theme and their notes are clean & concise. Berry is playing a third lead during this part of the jam. Duane's solo isn't as fiery as some of his other MJ solos but, damn, how did he get his guitar to sound like that? His notes are so clear & clean, and this solo is so coherent & concise. I read an old post that said "you'll be able to tell when Duane is playing because his guitar sings". I love Gregg's solo but I find myself listening to Berry more than Gregg. Berry follows Gregg all over the place, switching between rhythm and lead. It's amazing! I think that all of the jamming that people miss from other versions is contained in Dickey's solo. Berry, again, follows him and switches between rhythm & lead. Butch & Jaimo are cookin. Duane & Gregg are doing dueling rhythm parts. Like I said earlier, I love Duane's rhythm parts in the beginning of Dickey's solo. Duane joins in with Dickey a few times and then Dickey concludes with the up the scales, down the scales thing. Bird calls, drums solo, bass solo - all great. Then, after another Berry killer bass riff, they all come back in. I don't care if Butch was late. I never would have noticed it if I hadn't read about it. This part of the jam is my favorite. The guitar interplay, Dickey's little solo, more interplay, Duane's solo, and the bass, drums & organ rhythms behind it. This part of the jam affects me like no other piece of music I've heard. Depending on my mood, it can pump me up, lift me spiritually, or bring a tear to my eye. Again, how did Duane get a guitar to sound that g*dd*mn good? They didn't do a "fast" version of The Circle but Duane's "slow Circle" is sweet. Then they return to the main theme (with variations, of course) and the BIG ending.

I think I can honestly say that I've never heard any version of the Brothers live stuff that's better than AFE/EAP. I think they were on a mission to be the best that they could be that weekend, and they succeeded!

Sorry for being so long-winded. As it turns out, this is my 100th post.

[Edited on 6/19/2008 by claur]

 

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  posted on 6/19/2008 at 02:30 AM
I heard the "Holy Grail" of Mountain Jam this past weekend.

 

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  posted on 6/19/2008 at 12:13 PM
I really like the LAFE version...maybe the best I've heard for arrangement and content.

 

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