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Author: Subject: Handgun Owners, what if they were banned?

True Peach





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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 10:11 AM
Let me say first I support your rights under the 2d Amendment to have one. But I have seen a number of post recently where gun rights are a major concern, though the candidates have said very little if anything about it. I further think hunting is just fine, but I assume long guns are used exclusively there and this is only about handguns.

So, what is your experience with your handgun? Have you ever repelled a home invader or carjacker? On the other hand, has anyone been injured by your gun, either intentionally or unintentionally? Ever had one stolen? Keep your respose to your own experience or those in your household; I know we all have heard stories about a heroic gun owner doing something good with his gun, but we've probably also heard many a story of a kid accidentally harming himself w/ one too.

I've never owned a gun, and have never had an occasion where I would have needed one; what am I missing out on?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 10:18 AM
How do we ban handgun owners ?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 10:41 AM
Interesting story up near where i live.

17 ATF and Sherriff deputies raided a house where a couple in their late 70's lived.

oh hell, let me go find the story on the net.

to be continued...

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 10:44 AM
quote:
Interesting story up near where i live.

17 ATF and Sherriff deputies raided a house where a couple in their late 70's lived.

oh hell, let me go find the story on the net.

to be continued...


I can't w

 

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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 10:53 AM
I've never had to draw mine in self defense....ever....and I hope I never do. BUT...I'm one of those types that believes it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

In 1995-6, I had been to ATL for work and had taken my pistol with me for protection. I came back to town and had to go straight to a gig and play. I left the pistol in my glove box while I played. My van was burglarized and my pistol was stolen, along with my work briefcase and, of all things, my work boots. Never got any of my stuff back. I did have the S/N of the gun and gave it to the police in case it turned up in a pawn shop...or God forbid...was used in the commission of a crime. I never replaced the gun...until after 9/11.

 

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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 10:57 AM
damn, can't find the story.

the moral of it is, don't mess with old folks in Railroad Flat, CA, as they could have 600 or more assault rifles, machine guns, hand grenades and more in their garage.

they didn't arrest him though, as they were afraid he would die in their jail.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 11:07 AM
quote:
Let me say first I support your rights under the 2d Amendment to have one. But I have seen a number of post recently where gun rights are a major concern, though the candidates have said very little if anything about it. I further think hunting is just fine, but I assume long guns are used exclusively there and this is only about handguns.

So, what is your experience with your handgun? Have you ever repelled a home invader or carjacker? On the other hand, has anyone been injured by your gun, either intentionally or unintentionally? Ever had one stolen? Keep your respose to your own experience or those in your household; I know we all have heard stories about a heroic gun owner doing something good with his gun, but we've probably also heard many a story of a kid accidentally harming himself w/ one too.

I've never owned a gun, and have never had an occasion where I would have needed one; what am I missing out on?

i own one & i tote it,,,,,,,,,,,,i aint never had to pull it but will if i need to,,,,,got em in my house,,,,,,my daughter is schooled in just how to leave em lone,,,,,,,,,,never had one stole from me but miss thangs daddy have in the past,,,,,,never found em,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as for watchu missin out on,,,,,,,,,,really nothin less'n you just wanna add somethin new & different to your life,,,but that could be a million thangs sides a gun,,,,,,,,guns is a personal choice,,,,,,,,,,i chose to own one,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 11:07 AM
quote:
damn, can't find the story.

the moral of it is, don't mess with old folks in Railroad Flat, CA, as they could have 600 or more assault rifles, machine guns, hand grenades and more in their garage.

they didn't arrest him though, as they were afraid he would die in their jail.


Is this it Bruce?

quote:
RAIL ROAD FLAT - Dale Buller casts a long shadow in Rail Road Flat.

Thanks to him, buffalo graze where this town's children once played baseball and the state historic landmark - No. 286 - that marks the site of the town's founding is now fenced off from public access.

Many people here are afraid to speak his name and declined requests to be interviewed, but those who did speak were blunt.

"He's not a nice guy," said Mary Newell, 31, of Rail Road Flat.

County prosecutors and detectives agree.

"Every time we've gone to his property or dealt with him, he's always been real combative or verbally abusive," said Calaveras County sheriff's Detective Josh Crabtree. "He is kind of a hard man to deal with at times."

Buller, 79, is facing nine weapons charges over a collection of 610 guns that state investigators seized from his home compound in January. The charges include possessing a machine gun, dealing assault weapons across state lines and possessing weapons despite the fact he is barred from doing so because of a 2001 conviction for assault with a deadly weapon and a 2005 conviction for battery, both in Napa.

Buller did not respond to messages left on his answering machine. His criminal defense attorney, Ken Foley of San Andreas, said he has advised Buller not to grant media interviews.

Public records, media accounts and Buller's neighbors, tenants and employees paint a picture of a man of large economic might, who is prone to conflict. A buffalo rancher in Calaveras County and owner of prime winery property in Napa County, Buller has been either plaintiff or defendant in dozens of lawsuits in both counties.

And he and his wife, Delores, have used their economic clout over the past 25 years to build a 1,400-acre estate that is remaking Rail Road Flat.

In 1999, they purchased a 123-acre parcel on the north side of town that included several baseball fields, bleachers and backstops that had long been leased to local athletic leagues.

At some point, the ball field lease ended. An athletic league representative declined to discuss why it wasn't renewed. But residents here don't hesitate to say whom they blame for why the fields now lie quiet behind tall split-rail fences and are posted with large "no trespassing" signs.

"The worst part of the guy is the way he took the ballpark away from the kids," said Donald Shumway, 64, of Rail Road Flat.

Shumway said he worked as a ranch hand for Buller starting in the 1980s.

"He never cheated me. I had no trouble working with him," Shumway said. "I used to have him get ammunition for me when he went to gun shows."

Still, Shumway was unable to maintain a lasting connection to Buller.

"A buffalo trampled me, and then I needed a hip replacement," Shumway said. "And then he canned me when I couldn't work so hard."

Steve Wilensky is the Calaveras County supervisor who represents Rail Road Flat.

"I get Buller news once a week that there is some new travesty or new offense to one or another neighbor," Wilensky said.

This week the news was that Buller had fenced off public access to California Historical Marker No. 286, a monument topped by an ore car that marks the place beside Rail Road Flat Road where the town started in 1857.

Todd Barr, the county's top code enforcer, said Thursday the monument does stand on Buller's property, but Barr and state officials are still trying to determine whether the monument's longtime use as a public landmark may mean there is some right of public access.

Wilensky said Buller was so belligerent when code officials came to check on what was happening with the monument that they had to take a law enforcement escort.

Lawsuits involving Buller portray a hard businessman willing to play rough if it means he can hang on to a few extra dollars.

In a lawsuit set for trial later this month, Buller is accused of accepting delivery of 200 tons of hay from Jack Sparrowk and Randy Powell Trucking but then declining to pay the $13,690.46 bill for the hay. Buller's answer, in court documents: The hay "lacked appropriate nutritional value."

And it was such business dealings with tenants and suppliers that indirectly alerted authorities to Buller's arsenal.

"It started back where he bought a water tank or a storage tank from somebody," Crabtree, the sheriff's detective, said. Buller accepted delivery of the $5,000 tank, Crabtree said. "And he ended up canceling the check on the guy and keeping the tank."

That was the first reason to search Buller's compound. Then Crabtree had a case involving people renting homes from Buller.

"He has all the tenants who are living on his property, and once they would give notice, he'd have his employees go and empty out the house and store their property somewhere else on his property," Crabtree said.

During a search warrant looking for that property, officials discovered the guns.

So many guns that the California Department of Justice brought a caravan of 17 law enforcement officers to his door.

Delores Buller tried to keep them out claiming the Bullers had the flu, according to the report by Department of Justice Investigator Mark Lagarejos.

Searchers served the warrant anyway and asked Buller if he had any guns, Lagarejos wrote. Buller said no. The guns, including assault weapons, were found in the garage.

According to Lagarejos' report, Delores Buller then said that all the guns belonged to her. "Delores said she collected the Mausers because she was German and had the same month and day of birth as Hitler," Lagarejos wrote.

Some of the weapons had tags from a recent gun show in Reno, evidence Buller had been transporting the weapons across state lines, Lagarejos wrote.

By the end of the day, the Bullers' story changed again. This time, Dale Buller said the guns were his.

"Buller told me he collected firearms over the past 50 years and paid $3 million for them," Lagarejos wrote.

Buller is scheduled to appear in Calaveras County Superior Court at 1:30 p.m. Monday for a preliminary hearing on the weapons charges.




http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080503/A_NEWS/8050303 20/0/a_comm02

That's...one well-armed fellow.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 11:22 AM
I own 2 handguns, both S&W .45s. I also have a Remington 870 12ga that I put a pistol grip on.

I have only ever used them recreationally on my friend's property for target practice. It is fun to get them out once a year or so and shoot.

I have considered a concealed carry permit, but in Ohio, but it is easy for the public to access the names of permit holders. I guess that was kind of a compromise in the law. That turned me off right away. When I transport my firearms now I keep ammo and gun in seperate areas of the car and keep the gun in sight with action open - this was the way I was told to lawfully transport.

The guns are secured in my home, but in the event of a home invasion I am prepared to use them. The 45s have hollow points and the 12ga has alternating 00 shot and slugs.

If hand guns were banned, right now no law enforcement or government body knows what I have. I would not turn in my guns, but instead keep them unlawfully if it came down to that.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 11:30 AM
thanks Bhawk, yeah that's the guy.

geez, he had a conviction for assault with a deadly weapon when he was 72, and an battery conviction when he was 76.

he does have spunk, i'll give him that much.

but would much rather live next to him than his former Railroad Flat neighbors.

Leonard Lake/Charles Ng

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 11:48 AM
quote:
So, what is your experience with your handgun? Have you ever repelled a home invader or carjacker? On the other hand, has anyone been injured by your gun, either intentionally or unintentionally? Ever had one stolen?
Don't own one personally. Someone close to me does, though, and it was used by his teenage daughter when she took her life. Gun was not stored loaded and bullets were kept in a separate place than the pistol but it was not locked up and this heartbreaking incident occurred in the home. Parents keep your handguns locked up. Words cannot describe some heartbreaks... time mellows some of the hurt but you never completely heal. And the thoughts of what-if can be excrutiating.

 

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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 11:59 AM
I own a couple shotguns (20 and 12 gauge) and a rifle. I used to be an avid small game hunter but not so much anymore. I live in the country and it's nice to have the ability to toss some lead at the occasional coyote or bear who wanders to close. Not to mention a burglar if he/she decides to come steal my ABB collection or jump in my pool or hot tub when not invited. However, I don't feel that just anyone should be able to walk into a store and purchase any firearm. They should be required to show proof of identity, and proof that they've taken a gun safety course. We have litmus tests so to speak for driving vehicles, purchasing alcohol (minimum age), etc. why shouldn't we for purchasing firearms?


 

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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 12:48 PM
In terms of pure self defense in your home against an intruder a shotgun is best.Although i don't own a handgun I can see why people might be more inclined these days to pack heat with the increased occurances of random mass shootings such as at Va Tech, NIU and the Lane Bryant store in suburban south Chicago.

[Edited on 5/22/2008 by Peachypetewi]

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 02:57 PM
I have owned and carried handguns for over 35 years,i carry a glock 45 now and i keep a up to date concealed weapons permit..i have never had to draw it on anyone and hope i never do but i too believe it is better to have it and NOT need it than to need it and NOT have it .... I have never had one stolen and i raised two girls in our home and their were always loaded guns in the house they were instructed at a early age that they were NOT toys they were dangerous and that they were never to touch them or show them to their friends...they never did...both great kids we were blessed but we also took responsibility to teach them..

I hunt every year our family was raised on wild game and we depend on it each year,Guns are like any tool only as dangerous as the person is responsible... If any candidate has ever favored gun control he or she will never ever get my vote...

I support the right to own any kind of gun as long as you are of sane mind and abide by the rules that govern this country if you don't then as far as i am concerened you should have no rights you loose them when you choose to be a criminal or child molester or whatever,our rights have no color creed every law abiding citizen should have the right to keep and bear arms to protect his property and family.

The very people who wrote the consitution would now adays be looked at as terrorists that is how sad the politics and bleeding heart liberals have made this country..

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 02:57 PM
quote:
We have litmus tests so to speak for driving vehicles, purchasing alcohol (minimum age), etc. why shouldn't we for purchasing firearms?



Great point, seems oh to simple to me and many others throughout the world that testing and background checks should be required before ownership.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 03:03 PM
quote:
I have owned and carried handguns for over 35 years,i carry a glock 45 now and i keep a up to date concealed weapons permit..i have never had to draw it on anyone and hope i never do but i too believe it is better to have it and NOT need it than to need it and NOT have it .... I have never had one stolen and i raised two girls in our home and their were always loaded guns in the house they were instructed at a early age that they were NOT toys they were dangerous and that they were never to touch them or show them to their friends...they never did...both great kids we were blessed but we also took responsibility to teach them..

I hunt every year our family was raised on wild game and we depend on it each year,Guns are like any tool only as dangerous as the person is responsible... If any candidate has ever favored gun control he or she will never ever get my vote...

I support the right to own any kind of gun as long as you are of sane mind and abide by the rules that govern this country if you don't then as far as i am concerened you should have no rights you loose them when you choose to be a criminal or child molester or whatever,our rights have no color creed every law abiding citizen should have the right to keep and bear arms to protect his property and family.

The very people who wrote the consitution would now adays be looked at as terrorists that is how sad the politics and bleeding heart liberals have made this country..


Well considering a good many of them were slave owners yes i suppose they would be looked at as terrorists.

[Edited on 5/22/2008 by Peachypetewi]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 03:22 PM
Thought this would be an interesting addition to the thread, from my local paper:

quote:
Missouri car dealership offers free handgun with purchase
Need a new car? How about a new handgun, too?

You can get both at the Max Motors car dealership in Butler, Mo. And the gun is free. Caliber of your choice — just like your paint job.

Buyers can choose either the $250 gun coupon or one of equal value for gasoline. So far, most have gone for the heat.

“I’m telling them to get the semiautomatic because it holds more rounds,” the dealership’s general manager, Walter Moore, said Wednesday.

Moore knows a “Free Handgun” ad would probably draw protests in some places, but not in Butler, about an hour south of Kansas City on U.S. 71.

“Down here we all believe in God, guts and guns,” Moore said.




http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/story/630621.html

I have a friend who lives in Butler. Nice little town.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 03:33 PM
I would not like it. I do not think it will happen nationally. Maybe the individual states may ban. In the commonwealth of Massachusetts it is illegal to possess a handgun. I wonder how things went in that state during the change over. Did citizens turn in their handguns?? You can get a year in jail if possessing a handgun in Mass.

I think my state (NC) would have a easier time pulling my teeth than taking my handguns. I have all my teeth too.... I do not think NC will ever ban any type handgun or long rifle used for protection or hunting.

I may be incorrect about the Mass laws. I indicated that by the warning signs I see on the interstates. Checking them out now.

[Edited on 5/22/2008 by rottinpeach]

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 04:20 PM
The right for an individual to bear arms is before the Supreme Court right now to decide for the very first time. I think enough historical context and writings by the founders made it clear it was an individual right in the 2nd Amendment (not a collective miliitia aka National Guard right). However, if they rule that DC's gun ban is legal, it could set the stage for other States to do the same.

I had never heard that Mass had banned hand guns before.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 04:25 PM
quote:
The right for an individual to bear arms is before the Supreme Court right now to decide for the very first time. I think enough historical context and writings by the founders made it clear it was an individual right in the 2nd Amendment (not a collective miliitia aka National Guard right). However, if they rule that DC's gun ban is legal, it could set the stage for other States to do the same.

I had never heard that Mass had banned hand guns before.
But if DC isn't a state, how could it apply to other states?

 

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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 05:13 PM
They are ruling on the meaning of the 2nd Amendment which would apply to the entire United States. If they rule it is not an individual right, other States or municipalities could enact full gun bans. I guess they could give a less than definitive ruling as well. This one should be a unanimous ruling but it won't be I bet.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 05:18 PM
It's been a part of the Constitution for nearly 220 years. I doubt it'll change any time soon.

 

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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 06:51 PM
The whole concept of the right to keep and bear arms (to my understanding) is that is enough of the people deem fit that the goverment is to oppressive then they should have the right to take back the goverment for the good of the people,how can you have a milita,if the people who make it up have no weapons? How can twentyfirst century man make a ruling on the very foundation of this country written over 200 years ago...?

 

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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 07:43 PM

I am a gun owner and grew up shooting with my dad. In college I was a sharpshooter on the school rifle team. I keep my guns and ammo locked in a gun cabinet, plus they alll have trigger locks, as well. I have never had an incident where I needed a gun for protection nor have I had a gun-related accident. The only time I have ever had a gun pointed at me was by a cop.

Sometimes I feel the NRA has gone way overboard. The NRA lobbied hard for the Georgia Legislature to pass a law this session allowing people with concealed weapons permits to carry in most any public place, including MARTA trains, sports events, restaurants and bars. Drinking alcohol while packing, however, is a misdemeanor.

Our Republican governor Sonny Perdue signed it into law just this week.

Last night I went to see the Braves vs. the Mets at Turner Field. Many of you know that I've been a season ticket holder for 27 years and my seat location is right behind the owner's box. Sitting a couple of rows in front of me at last night's game were Jimmy and Roselynn Carter. They were greeted warmly by the fans and stayed to watch the game all the way through the last pitch of an 11-4 Braves victory.

Accompanying Mr. Carter were five Secret Service agents. That I could see. I know they are packing Uzis because I have seen one on another occasion. I couldn't help but think how many others were packing heat at this game? How much more difficult does Georgia's new law make the agents' job?




[Edited on 5/23/2008 by Hophead]

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/22/2008 at 07:55 PM
As far as I can remember, I always remember guns in the house. In fact, some were displayed in locked cases, unloaded, the ammunition locked away and the keys hidden from us. My father sort of collected guns, not really collected but just had a bunch that he liked that happened to be quite nice, so he displayed some of them. We were taught there are no accidents with guns, only carelessness. I think I shot a gun before I swung a baseball bat. I keep shotguns in the house myself now and I have a family with young children. I am also going for my carrying permit. I keep the same rules in my house, no accidents, everything locked away and unloaded.

While I enjoy bird hunting and different games like sporting clays, skeet, five stand, etc., the issue in the coming election is about the 2nd amendment, and the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with bird hunting or games. It has to with some of the founding fathers being extremely distrustful of the new federal government that had been established. Above all it was to protect them, you, us against the government. What is at stake here is exactly what these brilliant men had in mind. The government is telling you that you cannot defend yourself. They are also telling you what kind of gun you can or cannot own. They are also going to limit how many guns you can own. They will tell you in what manner you can use the gun. Can you imagine after they had just staved off the Brits and God knows what else, that they would let anyone tell them how many or what kind of gun you can own? All of the candidates miss the mark on this issue. They have no idea what they are talking about.

What happens if government uses its power to infringe upon or even destroy people's rights, as our founders feared it might do? As the previous poster states, in that case it is the right of the people to alter or abolish the government and to institute new government that would be more likely to protect our rights. What they were referring to was peaceful change through political action as well as, in extreme cases, violent change through armed revolution. Said another way, or to quote Ted Nugent, "When the coyotes are attacking, killing and eating the cats in our barn, I personally don't know anyone of intellect or decency that would be so insane as to declaw the cats."



 
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