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Author: Subject: Who is the best guitarist? (Don't really answer this)

World Class Peach





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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 12:18 AM
Yeah, I'm going to post another link to a youtube video. This is a clip of Bryant Gumble interviewing Miles Dave in 1982. The interview is funny due to Miles' reactions to the questions. But this is worth posting because it relates to an often reoccurring discussion that happens right here in Anything Goes about who the "best guitarist" is. And the threads go on for pages with different takes on what makes one musician better than the other.

Well, here from the mouth of one of the most birlliant musicians in the last four centuries you have some words of wisdom regarding this very topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHeYG9SNaS0

At the 2:46 mark Miles really puts this debated question in perspective & I thought it should be shared among all of us who can't help but add our .02 cents in this discussion.

Bryant Gumble asks him, "Is it all improtant to you how people will ultimately rank you? Or judge you?"

Miles: "What do you mean rank me?"

Gumble: "Rank like up."

Miles: "You mean like an athlete?"

Gumble: "Like the best, yeah."

Miles: "When you say best you can't say best in any form of the arts. There's no best dancer. No best actor . . ."

It is so very true. In its essence you can't dig the Allman Brothers, or understand the essence of music for that matter, if you think of each musician's legacy as a call to compete with other musicians. It just doesn't work that way. And when someone who thinks that can get past that thought, the understanding of the music that drives each of them to play night after night, telling stories with musical notes, calling on their fellow musicians to help them interpret the music, color it with their distincitve voice, then you no longer need to answer this question to yourself or anyone else that may ask, "Why do you listen to those ten minute guitar solos? Don't they all sound the same?" You may not NEED to answer it but you WANT them to understand it because it is such a beautiful thing.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 12:30 AM
I believe it was Mr. Gregg Allman who said, "Man! music aint a competiton!! they are both the greatest, and [stevie ray] was just incredible, like my brother was!". when he heard somebody squable about who is better! [clapton or stevie ray] and dickey betts expressed similar sentiments when someone was talking the same sh!t about duane vs. derek!!. one story I heard about miles davis [from bassist harvey brooks] when he was spotted in the studio by miles the first day of the session for "bitches brew", when miles spotted him in the studio [harvey] what are you doing here you fat Mutherf***er!!.

[Edited on 8/21/2007 by pops42]

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 08:15 AM
thanks for posting

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 08:21 AM
quote:
Miles: "When you say best you can't say best in any form of the arts. There's no best dancer. No best actor .


so true..something either gets you in your heart or it doesn't ...that doesn't make it good or bad ..

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 08:23 AM
Agreed!

I keep it subjective and refer to my favorite <whatever>.

Billastro

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 08:33 AM
It human nature to want to be competitive, but I have to go along with what Gregg said. It ain't a competition! People who play music bring joy to people who love to listen to music.

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 09:29 AM
When the music is being played there is no compititon, on stage, you are all one.
.... but getting there, competing with other bands to get a record deal, or getting a demo into a record companies office there is intense compitition in the land of music, or entertainment.
Your competing when you try out for a band
It is cut throat ..ear to ear.
Duane stood back stage at the Fillmore east when they were opening for Johhny Winters and while watching Johnny turned to (I forget who) and said..."I can cut him"
It is human nature to want to compete, and be the best. That was Duanes goal...to be the best.
Competition is what keeps you going..unless your afraid of it, which is what keeps talented players from suceeding, or making it.
Nothing worse than wasted talent, and fear of losing or being rejected is their worse nightmare...and obstacle.

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 09:35 AM
truely when someone says "A is better than B" they are saying "I like A better than B".

I do believe a sophisticated music lover can apply criteria to make the arguement - or point.

Like jazzer John Scofield? heard him last month and he was great. EXCEPT when he played slide on one song...what was he thinking? why do i say that?

bad tone: metal slide, thin brittle

bad intonation: all over the place.

i would have no problem saying Derek Trucks was way better. Sco is a master jazz guitarist, of course. needs a lot of shedding on slide.

who is better, Warren Haynes or that Billy Joe cat in Green Day?

WH Why? better technique/chops, more complexity, and so on.

too much judgement can close doors and they should be left open, of course.

Pat Martino is better than Jack White.

I love and revere Miles Davis (not so much the fusion) but I would remind the group he had no trouble saying black musicians are better than white musicians. Old Miles said a lot of wacky stuff...

[Edited on 8/21/2007 by aiq]

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 10:12 AM
hey, just watched the clip...that's Sco on guitar! funny...

Miles also says in the clip "we stopped playing cliches". He's quoted elsewhere as saying if you want to be a musician you gotta play cliches...so your style can be recognized.

His last studio recording ,Doo Bop, is a hip hop/rap/electronic jazz fusion project...don't like it much, YMMV.

but it's still Miles' riffs (cliches?).

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 10:16 AM
quote:
Duane stood back stage at the Fillmore east when they were opening for Johhny Winters and while watching Johnny turned to (I forget who) and said..."I can cut him"



SkyPuppy,

Even though Duane made the comment about Johnny Winter, he didn't make it at the Fillmore and he didn't make it as a member of ABB. The real story is that Duane and some other Mussel Shoals session players were in New York doing some recording with Arthea Franklin at Atlantic Records. One night after a session, Duane and some of the other musicians went down to Steve Paul's club, The Scene to see Johnny Winter (btw Steve Paul was Johnny's manager at the time and helped him get from Columbia Record's one of the largest advances at the time for a new artist). At the time Johnny was being "touted" as the next big thing, by Rolling Stone magazine, and people like Jimi Hendrix, Buddy Miles, Mike Bloomfield, ect were all coming by and "jamming" with Johnny. No doubt, Duane seeing Johnny in that situation, got him thinking that maybe he ought to put another band together, which he did, and as they say the rest is history.

One more thing, that Johnny Winter deserves a lot of credit for is that early in the ABB career, that Johnny was one of the few artist willing to take the ABB on tour with him, as many bands didn't like following the ABB, as quite frankly, the ABB would "blow them off stage" (a fact that I personally witness, when ABB opened for Canned Heat back in 1970).

[Edited on 8/21/2007 by cleaneduphippy]

 
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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 10:31 AM
quote:
quote:
Duane stood back stage at the Fillmore east when they were opening for Johhny Winters and while watching Johnny turned to (I forget who) and said..."I can cut him"



SkyPuppy,

Even though Duane made the comment about Johnny Winter, he didn't make it at the Fillmore and he didn't make it as a member of ABB. The real story is that Duane and some other Mussel Shoals session players were in New York doing some recording with Arthea Franklin at Atlantic Records. One night after a session, Duane and some of the other musicians went down to Steve Paul's club, The Scene to see Johnny Winter (btw Steve Paul was Johnny's manager at the time and helped him get from Columbia Record's one of the largest advances at the time for a new artist). At the time Johnny was being "touted" as the next big thing, by Rolling Stone magazine, and people like Jimmy Hendrix, Buddy Miles, Mike Bloomfield, ect were all coming by and "jamming" with Johnny. No doubt, Duane seeing Johnny in that situation, got him thinking that maybe he ought to put another band together, which he did, and as they say the rest is history.

One more thing, that Johnny Winter deserves a lot of credit for is that early in the ABB career, that Johnny was one of the few artist willing to take the ABB on tour with him, as many bands didn't like following the ABB, as quite frankly, the ABB would "blow them off stage" (a fact that I personally witness, when ABB opened for Canned Heat back in 1970).

[Edited on 8/21/2007 by cleaneduphippy]
Thanks for getting the where and when straight, but the quote remains the same. The fact that he said it at a much younger age makes his competitive/confident attitude even more impressive..I like that.
I know what you mean about bands not liking the Bros opening for them. Johnny himself didn't play his last set at the Fillmore shows, as we were calling the Bothers back while he was playing every night...I'm embarrased to admit now, but hey..there was no contest.
There wasn't a band on the planet who could follow the Bros back then..not their fault.
I know we have gotten off track from the topic, but it seems we always come around to Duane in the end

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 11:30 AM
still another angle: we often see on the board here that the ABB are the Best Band in the Land, etc.

i would say best "blues/jazz based ROCK band in the land...


IMO, most jazz players are, um, "better" using my criteria of complexity, technique, composition.

(running to the fallout shelter now...)

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 11:43 AM
slowhand - thanks for sharing this! Very true that some things can't be measured (like lefty says - it either grabs your heart or it doesn't...not 'getting' something doesn't make it good or bad).

btw - love the sig

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 12:06 PM
Give me Duane anytime, anywhere.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 12:45 PM
quote:

Competition is what keeps you going..unless your afraid of it, which is what keeps talented players from suceeding, or making it.
Nothing worse than wasted talent, and fear of losing or being rejected is their worse nightmare...and obstacle


these things may apply to you..but to generalize and use the word "you" in the plural and to insinuate that people don't "make it" because they are afraid is a stretch my man...

my belief is that...
many talented people commit totally, are great players, sacrifice everything and still don't ever make it...
talent, perserverance and dedication get you some chips to sit at the table..
then, good fortune and timing play a big role...

one of my favorite sayings is..'luck is when preparation meets opportunity"..

it's the opportunity part that you have limited control over

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 12:48 PM
Do you think that Stevie Ray Vaughan is better than Jimi Hendrix??? My friend says SRV but I think its Hendrix. What do you think?

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 12:56 PM
what lefty said...

and then, what do you mean by "making it"?

$$$ or "cover of the rolling stone"?

in my book if are making a living playing you are making it.

a full time player with steady gigs often make more $ than "famous" players who work for a singer.

you're making it if you are playing music you like even if you gig once a month.

if you're dedicated to a vision that includes quality, improvement, soul, heart, honesty, and artistic expression.

to grab me music has to get me emotionally AND intellectually.

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 01:06 PM
quote:
and then, what do you mean by "making it"?

$$$ or "cover of the rolling stone"?

in my book if are making a living playing you are making it.


right on..and even this is in varying degrees..

I feel like I have made it..
why ?

because everytime i pick up a guitar, I feel profound joy..I can usually make it say what i want it to ( but the times i can't are what make me work hard to keep improving and why it is still so interesting)...that makes me a very lucky man...For me, happiness ( or making it) is the measure of success..the world is filled with stories of many that thought "money and fame" would bring them happiness..it doesn't...
fufillment in your heart is success(to me) ..and I have that..and I am very grateful for that

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 01:21 PM
quote:
quote:
and then, what do you mean by "making it"?

$$$ or "cover of the rolling stone"?

in my book if are making a living playing you are making it.


right on..and even this is in varying degrees..

I feel like I have made it..
why ?

because everytime i pick up a guitar, I feel profound joy..I can usually make it say what i want it to ( but the times i can't are what make me work hard to keep improving and why it is still so interesting)...that makes me a very lucky man...For me, happiness ( or making it) is the measure of success..the world is filled with stories of many that thought "money and fame" would bring them happiness..it doesn't...
fufillment in your heart is success(to me) ..and I have that..and I am very grateful for that
yes..making it whatever you deem it to be for yourself..I agree. That wasn't the point I was trying to make though.
There are so many talented people who are just afraid of sucess, and not only in music. They can have all the talent in the world, but are afraid of failure, or rejection, or just don't have the heart or nerve for it..but the talent it abundant.
If you don't have any degree of competitive nature, it can hold you back from becoming everything you can be. It can be seen in all walks of life. That was the point I was trying to make..guess it came out wrong.

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 01:24 PM
quote:
If you don't have any degree of competitive nature, it can hold you back from becoming everything you can be. It can be seen in all walks of life. That was the point I was trying to make..guess it came out wrong.


now that, i agree with..sometimes, the longest distance you have to travel is between your own ears..

all i was saying is that it can be dangerous to speak in extremes..

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 01:45 PM
quote:
quote:
If you don't have any degree of competitive nature, it can hold you back from becoming everything you can be. It can be seen in all walks of life. That was the point I was trying to make..guess it came out wrong.


now that, i agree with..sometimes, the longest distance you have to travel is between your own ears..

all i was saying is that it can be dangerous to speak in extremes..
Hey...check my stars..I'm an Extreme Peach

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 03:37 PM
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
If you don't have any degree of competitive nature, it can hold you back from becoming everything you can be. It can be seen in all walks of life. That was the point I was trying to make..guess it came out wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



now that, i agree with..sometimes, the longest distance you have to travel is between your own ears..

all i was saying is that it can be dangerous to speak in extremes..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----

Hey...check my stars..I'm an Extreme Peach


lol..well there you have it..you had no choice..

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 04:04 PM
quote:
Who is the best guitarist?

Estaban

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 04:15 PM
We are all born with a "Musical Heartbeat" that runs through us. Whether you just tap your toes to the beat or you can play like a Mo'fo...The Musicians that plug into that passion and make you Feel it, I mean really feel it...are the best.

 

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  posted on 8/21/2007 at 04:26 PM
quote:
We are all born with a "Musical Heartbeat" that runs through us. Whether you just tap your toes to the beat or you can play like a Mo'fo...The Musicians that plug into that passion and make you Feel it, I mean really feel it...are the best.


And that is why the Allman Brothers Band has been the musical backdrop of my life--my musical heartbeat has NEVER been affected so strongly. I play and love lots of different musical styles, but nothing has ever come as close to making me laugh, cry, or smile.

 
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