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Author: Subject: When it comes to music are people generally NEGATIVE?

World Class Peach





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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:13 AM
This has really been bugging me a bit...so please indulge me for a second.

MY question: When it comes to music, do people genuinely enjoy being more negative than positive. Do they enjoy bashing rather praising? Tearing down rather than building?

Somehow, I think this might be the case...unless you can prove me wrong.

Sorry, but whatever happened to being positive about music especially with the music we love, the music thats dear to our hearts and souls. What is going on with this place? Never have I've seen so much negativity about music...our music, our community.

People lay in the bushes, lurking, waiting to pounce on a topic to say something negative and derogatory...God forbid something nice should come out of their mouths. I think some of you know what I mean and who I mean. Before you say it, Yes people are absolutely entitled to their opinions, but do some go just a bit too far beating their points into the ground so all will know just exactly how they feel? Is there such a thing as going overboard with making points be known especially when dwelling on the negative? Should people hold back just a little to keep things a little more friendly? I think so...do you?

Someone says something nice about Derek - and right away someone else feels the need to say something in the other direction. Say something cool about Warren, same exact thing. The ABB and Ratdog this summer?...That's No good, some hate it so much they spew all over the place about everything under the sun about this great double-bill. Why rain on the parade of those that love the idea? I want this, I want that! Dickey Betts?...he's no good either, nope he's finished . Yesterday, I started a thread about Oteil's 10 year Anniversary in the band, a major achievement given the band's history and less than 20 people posted something on that thread. It must be too damn positive a thread to say anything at all...right? Yet, I saw a thread titled "Name the ABB tours you didn't like!"...What the Fu#k is that all about - negativity at it's finest! The Beacon was down a notch I hear from some folks - nothing is ever good enough for them. The ABB aren't touring enough either these days, boo hoo. They aren't even a real band anymore, they are a cover band! Yeah, right. Where is the new ABB album - so some can bash that too??? Can't wait to bash Gregg forgetting a lyric or two. Too many cover songs! Not enough cover songs! They play too many songs now period! I miss my favorites - as if they are a top 40 band. Switch it up even more some say! Play this one, don't play that one! Dickey can't play at all anymore! ...trainwrecks left and right and he drinks beer too! Warren is overweight, Derek doesn't move enough, Butch is a jerk! HUH? What is it with this Bullsh!t attitude?

Holy sh!t! Don't you know how good we have it with our band, our guys? Do you see and hear what kind of music is popular these days? Its mostly crap isn't it?...we have it SO good you don't even know! WE have a band that kicks ass and that cares about their fans and their community. THAT IS SO RARE!

Am I over reacting here or do some of you feel the same way? Is this place simply a microcosm of the real world?...I would hate to think so.

I have been a part of this place going all the way back to the old website...Yes, we have always have differences of opionion but with an influx of lots of new people the past couple of years its been getting very chaotic and chippy and nit pickey with more clouds than sun. Yes, we all many many good friends here that are now more like family, but have things changed just a bit???

I love The Allman Brothers Band! I love Derek and Gregg and Warren and Butch and Oteil and Marc and Jaimoe. I love Duane and Dickey and Berry. I Love The Dead and Phil and Bobby! I love The Mule and The DTB! I love Jam Bands and other great improv music! I love Kimock and Panic and Phish and ....I love this place and all of you! BUT what is happening here? I dare not post about anything I like anymore though, because someone is waiting to pounce on me and my opionions. Really good musical discussions are few and far between...

We are so damn lucky to have The Allman Brothers Band still around and playing beautifully!...and ALL the family bands too, but you would never know it...

So my friends...am I crazy or have things been just a bit too negative lately???

Come on say something lukers and pouncers! LOL!

Peace and Love and good music.... always!


I do want to thank the people that for the most part are always positive and always seem see the light and not the darkness...You guys are what makes this place special - and you also know who you are!!! THank you!






[Edited on 6/1/2007 by EddieP]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:16 AM
Like when someone mentions a musical style not to everyones' tastes.

Like hard rock or metal players.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:20 AM
quote:
MY question: When it comes to music, do people genuinely enjoy being more negative than positive. Do they enjoy bashing rather praising? Tearing down rather than building?
I would rather concentrate on things I enjoy and ignore, or disregard, the stuff that doesn't bring me pleasure. Some may see this as an ostrich-head-in-sand attitude but I prefer to think of it as concentrating on positive energy as opposed to having a lot of negative energy hanging around me.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:21 AM
Simple:

My band is better than your band.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:28 AM
I will chime in and say YES they are. I am right there with you Eddie. A lot of negative crap being thrown around lately. And I try and say this every chance I get, that we are living in great times right now. Thank God for the ABB, Derek, Warren, Oteil and every other band associated to the ABB. Without them, I dont know what I would listen to or what concerts I would attend. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but lately the negative posts have become rampant on here. Just my opinion but I feel like this place is begining to lose its good vibe and that is a very hard thing to say for me being as its always been a sanctuary for me to come and meet good people and talk about music or anything for that matter. We need to take some time to step back and really look at how good things are . This place is one of a kind, with the best people I have met and I am proud to be a part of it. Take a look at the Philzone and see where the negative crap goes when not guarded against. That place is almost unreadable.

I mean in 2007 we get the ABB and we get Bob Weir and friends. Did anyone think we would have such an opportunity in 2007??? There are always going to be different opinions on who should play with the ABB or Dickey needs to sober up and get back on his game. I understand that and this would not be the pkace it is without good conversations and many points of view on the music. But with that said, its getting to the point where people start positve threads and one person posts some negative crap, and the whole thread goes to hell. If you feel that way fine, but dont post it in threads that have been started on a postive note or is meant to get people excited about something. All it does is bring the whole vibe down. I love this place and the people in it but we need to get back to where it all began people.

Eddie I am with ya bro, glad you brought it up.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:28 AM
quote:
Like when someone mentions a musical style not to everyones' tastes.

Like hard rock or metal players.


I know where you are going with this CM, but most of my points surrounding Metal are actually pretty subtle compared to other peoples opinions on different styles of music....and for the most part I am referring to pepples opinions on The ABB and the family bands...

rock on brother...

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:29 AM
Well said EddieP, I too think we need some positive vibes lately. However, since so many people care so deeply about this music, I guess we will always tend to over critique it. I guess we have become so protective of it, that we get defensive or critical if its not just the way we think it oughta be. I guess the only real solution to this issue is to just enjoy the music and fellowship that it provides, and don't feel like the music world owes us to conform to our expectations. If a musician realizes that "the music is what's important" then we should too.

Music is and always will be the one positive that never fails me. I hope it continues for you that way too. Thanks Bro.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:30 AM
I love Music in General, grew up with Music always floating thru the House. I've been a Guitar player since about '73. My Parents encouraged it and even bought my first guitar. They also always encouraged me to be an original Thnker. When Music comes along that is not to my liking, if asked, I will comment on it. Take that as being "Negative" if you like, it's your call. Not everything has Sugar on it.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:31 AM
I hear you, but I think it is just human nature that if you're happy w/ a situation, you are less likely to comment than if you have a complaint. The old silent majority thing. I have posted in a few of the I love threads but such posts from me really convey very little useful information to others. The thrill is gone thread was interesting to me because it was like looking into a parallel universe, as my ABB experience of late has been oh so satisfying. And some people just like to debate, and if it's done civilly, it is a fine sport.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:44 AM
Brock, as far as the ABB is concerned, I believe there are two groups of Fans. The people that remember the 70's and the fans that have watched the band morph into what it is today. I discovered the Band in the 70's right after Duane passed. To me, as good as today's Music from the ABB is, it doesn't hold a candle to their early work. That being said, I can't relate to posts that ask questions like. "Your first show with Oteil" or " Will Dickey ever be back"... 3 "original" members of ANY band will always invite comments from all ends of the spectrum.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:49 AM
Eddie--excellent post!!!---i've been guilty my self & have tried to focus more on what i enjoy & not on the negatives...but,polite,civil discussion on musical tastes(& so long as we agree it's all about subjective judgements since our ears may all hear it & absorb it differently) is fine to me so long as it's civil & informed.....i always like to cite my ongoing"battle" with Peter Nelson over Jack White--he clearly knows his stuff & we have disagreed strongly...but it has always been civil,decent & done with a sense of humor & all in all has been fun....that is quite different than the negativity so apparent more recently....Thanks for this thread,Eddie---it's a good reminder....

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:50 AM
I think this forum is basically a microcosm of society at
large. Some people in life are regularly upbeat and positive
as they go about their day ... others are not .... and the
majority of folks are in the middle. This is the only music
site I participate in .... but I do a college football site and
some other sports forums. The attitudes there are similar ...
some people are very contentious about just about anything.
But most go with the flow. And that just mirrors humanity
itself.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:53 AM
quote:
quote:
Like when someone mentions a musical style not to everyones' tastes.

Like hard rock or metal players.


I know where you are going with this CM, but most of my points surrounding Metal are actually pretty subtle compared to other peoples opinions on different styles of music....and for the most part I am referring to pepples opinions on The ABB and the family bands...

rock on brother...




Just bustin' your balls a bit Eddie. But it is not so different. That said we are all entitled to our opinions.

I think we all have our negative moments and at times our opinions may cloud our judgement. Not everyone enjoys the same things or has the same view point. But a level of respect is needed in any discussion. As BigV mentions, not everything is sugar coated nor will we all agree. Would be a pretty boring place.

But I know what you are referring to. Some threads are headed in a negative direction from the start. I don't think it is done to bring the vibe down. Just some people trying to start conversations. I say start them positive because others will counter anyway.

I love the ABB as much as anyone but sometimes it seems like people think we should accept all their opinions, family bands and community without questioning it. As if Gregg & Company's **** doesn't stink. Some see through rose colored glasses at times instead of reality. At times, those reality checks can be viewed as negative by some. I don't see these guys as "Super Heroes" like some people do. They are musicians.

Still say that this site is a one of a kind place. Awesome people that have been more generous and kind to me than some of my family members. I'll take the good with the bad because the good here far outweighs the bad. Sometimes we lose focus of that.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 10:58 AM
Some of it has to do with the fan ego. They have to tell themselves & others that what they listen/like is legit, or the best. We are all guilty of this to an extent, but hope to get to that level where it isn't a race anymore.

Can't count how many times where I thought something was crap at one time, but was totally proven wrong a few months/years later. It isn't easy to distinguish at first, but it isn't necessarily "crap", but it's more along the lines of "it ain't my cup of tea".

But then again, music & criticism almost go hand in hand, doesn't it? Some things definitely deserve criticism, but you hope it's used to instigate conversation & ideas, rather than just being negative for the sake of being negative.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:02 AM
...i'm an old fan from way back & still love the band---reminds me of Dylan's 1980 "gospel" tour---all the old fans were ticked off at his lyrics,new sound,new band etc.---some of my lifelong Dylan friends.....well i recently listened with a bunch of em to that tour & alot of em hear it & appreciate quite differently than their 1980 hatred of it----they loved it!!!! So,with all due respect,BIGV--- i've been a "modern" fan & fan of the ABB past---i hear the many differences & enjoy all of it.....it's different but that's fine by me as now,when i pick up a cd to listen to,i have a variety of ABB style & era choices to pick from & each fits a particular moment & particular time---as for Ratdog,AFFS & i have also disagreed,but we've become buddies....because we put more emphasis on how we interacted than on the taste of the moment.....maybe civility has gone out the door & we all don't quite know or care how sensitive we are before we type....

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:03 AM
Very good discussion. I've thought about this over the years, I'm convinced that most of my negative reactions come from expectations. I believe that the core fans here are deeply into music of the highest calibre. The bar is set so high. The potential for disappointment huge. Personally, speaking just for myself, I spent decades in the wilderness. Shows from any band were a lot of fun. But there was always a hollow place--an empty place if you will--that couldn't be filled. It was the best there was, and it was fun. But I had been raised on the music of Goodman's band, and Fletcher Henderson's, and Ellington's, much of the records coming from live performances on radio or in concert.
Then the ABB and Fillmore. There was always a feeling that humans had the potential to make something more magical, more complete.

All this changed on Sept. 24, 2000. Derek, Otiel, and Jimmy. THIS was what I had waited a lifetime for. To be in front of something like this, as it was being created. Fulfilling. And it's happened often since. So much so, that it almost seems routine--that feeling that happy can be commonplace. Expectations. High bar. Room for disappointment.

There was a recent thread about what show did you not like. I started to respond several times, about some early '90's stuff that was so disappointing to me, I quit going to shows for several years. But then I figured, "What's the point? Why say something bad? What useful purpose would it serve?" It would just basically be more bitching and whining on my part, and I probably do way too much of that already. So I just kept silent.

But the point is well-taken, Eddie. And my response summed in the word "expectations."
Personally, I've been spoiled over the last several years. And I like it.

EAPFP

 
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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:08 AM
Give people any topic and they can tear it apart in 5 mins time.
Write extended disertations on the negative, etc.

The problem is, is it is way too easy to tear something down than
shining a light on the postives. I know, I am as cynical and snarky as
can be, but it's not always hellfire and damnation.

On the other hand, would you rather have 400 people reciting the mantra
over and over again that the ABB and side projects are the best and can do
no wrong. Eventually someone (probably like me) will turn around and say
Well, they could do this a little better, or that.

Complacancy will soon be stale.

But all in all. This is fun topic to have.

Have a wonderful day and god bless ...


 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:10 AM
Eddie,

I think your post is wonderful. That said, it's hard for me to respond. Do I think you're overreacting? Perhaps a little. I don't want to make an assumption about what thread(s) you're referring to, but I think I can guess 1 correctly.

Sometimes, I agree that this community can get down on (take your pick of the ABB & Family Bands). For me, for the most part, it's all good. Do I wish the ABB would dig into their own archives to play us songs we haven't heard in years?? Yes. There are more than this but 7 come quickly to mind - All Night Train, Sailin' Cross the Devil's Sea, True Gravity, Low Down Dirty Mean, Temptation is a Gun, Kind of Bird. Is there a better tune since I don't know when than Nobody Knows?? I've seen and heard Dickey & GB do it several times - All I can say is that the ABB would kill it....................and I wish they would. A new album?? I could care less. But new material?? Yes, please.

On a completely different front, this community can sometimes get too down on...............examples? The ABB opening last year for TP&tHP; I saw lots of Tom Petty bashing - Are the Brothers a better band?? Of course. But let's be real - who's the bigger draw?? While I'm not the world's biggest Clapton fan, I find the constant criticism of him to be unsettling - who asked Duane to play on Layla?? Who asked SRV to play with him. Who asked Derek to tour with him?? Who got more out of those scenarios? Methinks, it wasn't EC.

I truly hope this came out correctly - I don't really "know" Eddie but I read all of his posts and they're usually spot one. Ediie - this is a good thread and I hope more will respond to it - Bob

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:14 AM
Bobo---thanks for the point made on EC---i love most of his work,but feel some real hatred,rather than fairminded musical discussion on this site (at times) towards EC...appreciate ypour statement...

[Edited on 6/1/2007 by dadof2boys]

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:26 AM
THank you guys for the nice words and your input...some of you guys who posted already are among people I would definitely say are on the "positive" side of the fence when it comes to music discussion. You state your case, read other opinions and then move on...

Remember guys, what I am getting at here goes beyond just personal opinion among the regulars who go back and forth stating their points in a kind, civil and friendly or funny nature. I am more so referring to the people that lurk and wait to pounce and spew negativity beacause it appears that is al they know how to do and how to be. There is plenty of that here now, much more than before I feel. They wait for a topic to appear and then they say the most derogatory thing they can think of. Then someone responds to that and they state it again and again unitl an argument ensues. THat type of thing in not what this community was built on and if we can prevent it from getting even worse maybe we should try...somehow. I just don't want this place to be ruined that way, thats all. Maybe I am not realistc though, I just don't know.

THanks again!

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:27 AM
I think some folks here are overly critical towards artists such as Skynard, Zeppelin, EC, & etc. But sometimes, their fanbase can be reason for the friction as well.

I've come to the conclusion years ago that, I will never understand the Grateful Dead. So giving my two cents on certain GD topics are kind of meaningless, isn't it? No point in me posting replies of "The Dead sucks", b/c it ain't even credible.

But on the other hand, comments such as "Duane Allman was the greatest guitarist ever" doesn't sit right with me either. And I LOVE Duane Allman's music.

Interesting thread topic.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:38 AM
quote:

Remember guys, what I am getting at here goes beyond just personal opinion among the regulars who go back and forth stating their points in a kind, civil and friendly or funny nature. I am more so referring to the people that lurk and wait to pounce and spew negativity beacause it appears that is all they know how to do and how to be. There is plenty of that here now, much more than before I feel. They wait for a topic to appear and then they say the most derogatory thing they can think of. Then someone responds to that and they state it again and again unitl an argument ensues.




This is much easier for me to respond too. I agree 100% The thing that bothers me is that we as a community spend way too much time arguing with these idiots, which is exactly what they are looking for - same as "trolls" to me...............Starve them by ignoring them as trolls have a diet consisting soley of attention. Personally, I try not to waste a moment arguing. I come to this site because I love this Band and, over the years I've made some wonderful friends here (Dare I include Sang??)As soon as a Thread heads South (and most of us know when that line is crossed)....................I'm OUTTA There!! Life's too short!

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:40 AM
Oh, and one last thing, Eddie - your original post, as good as it was........................coulda been 50 posts this running up your totals.....

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:41 AM
I gotta say lighten up, the pendulum always swings. I appreciate what you're trying to say, but one man's honest discussion is another man's bummer of a thread. I really haven't noticed much negativity lately, maybe it's just because the band isn't touring so there is not as much to talk about. The Allmans will always be my favorite band, but I think our disagreements and opinions are more interesting and worthy of our time than endlessly blind hero worship.

By the way, this thread is really bumming me out.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2007 at 11:42 AM
Thank you BoBo...all the best to you my friend!

All I know is...every note these bands play for us is a gift and we should concentrate on that a little more...Is that too hard?

 

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