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Author: Subject: is ABB mainstream????

True Peach





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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 12:05 PM

Scott Tady: Pure Panic a reason to celebrate
By: Scott Tady
04/15/2007

The Dead seem done and Phish is phinished, so somebody's got to carry the jam-band banner.

Sure, the Dave Matthews and Allman Brothers bands are rooted in the jam genre, though both long ago crossed over into the mainstream.

In terms of plain old jam - the kind savored by the pot, patchouli and let's-tape-every-show crowd - Widespread Panic might be the new leaders.

The Athens, Ga., band made a case for itself last Tuesday, keeping 2,500 fans shuffling and grooving throughout a 20-song set in Pittsburgh's Benedum Center.

New guitarist Jimmy Herring, an alum of the Allmans and Dead, gave Panic extra heft, with his piercing licks powering a cover of Traffic's "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys."

But Herring barely moved on the stage, so the visual flair came from percussionist Domingo Ortiz striking cymbals with the drumstick in his left hand as his bare right hand pounded out a beat on the conga drums.

Singer John Bell steered clear of stage banter, allowing lengthy oft-improvised songs to seamlessly flow together.

It was my first Widespread Panic concert, and while I'm sorry to have arrived late to the party, I'm now glad to be part of the fold.

Jam on, Panic. Jam on.

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 12:19 PM
Mainstream movie soundtracks! They had two songs in the new movie "Wild Hogs". I also noticed one of their songs in the movie "The Departed". It seems that they are the hot band for soundtracks at this time.
 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 12:30 PM
Yes, in the sense they've been around almost 40 years, people know who they are, and know (at least some of) their songs, and more importantly the cross-section of fans that still come to their shows and come to this website. Truth is, just over here in the web-site alone, we got people of every age, every political and religious persuadation, we got young and old, we got professionals and people who work in retail, construction, and every kind of job in between, we got people who dropped out of high school and people who have PHDs, we got people of different races and cultural backgrounds, basically we have a cross-section of mainstream America, and I wouldn't have any other way.
 
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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 12:36 PM
I agree with that post, CUH . . .It's Fred, right?

Out of curiosity, are they any other bands/acts you could name that would reveal a similarly diverse fan base?

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 12:51 PM
No, The ABB IMO is not mainstream. Maybe compared to Panic they are a little, but compared to classic rock bands that have been around for many years...No, not at all.

I do agree with Panic being the heir to the kings of the Jamband throne...Phish is gone and once The ABB retires for good, Panic will be the band everyone talks about. It would have been The Crowes but not with all the lineup shuffling they do. Panic is the best band out there as it stands right now...

AS far as Jimmy not moving on stage...hey, he's a guitar player, not a friggin dancer.

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 01:33 PM
quote:
I agree with that post, CUH . . .It's Fred, right?

Out of curiosity, are they any other bands/acts you could name that would reveal a similarly diverse fan base?



Fred it is.

Bands/Acts hmmmm, that's a good one. Would like to say there are some, like Little Feat, Delbert McClinton, Bonnie Raitt, ect, but truth be told, they attract a mostly older, mostly white (some blacks) crowd. What's happening is that unfortunately, a lot of people don't listen to music from other genres or other eras of music, and thus are unaware. The ABB has had the good fortunate, to be considered a blues band, a jazz fusion band, a southern rock band, a classic rock band and for the last few years the heir to the Grateful Dead "jam band" community. As such they have attracted and been able to keep fans from all those different and diverse genres of music.

[Edited on 4/15/2007 by cleaneduphippy]

 
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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 02:01 PM
I think it depends on how you defind Mainstream. My dictionary has a couple, but the one I like best is: Something or someone that is known to ordinary masses. IMHO I don't think the ABB should be included in a topic of mainstream bands. The only bands I know of in the "blues, classic rock, or Jam" category should be:
1) Grateful Dead
2) Jimi Hendrix
3) Led Zeppelin

Have you ever checked out the poster section at music stores like Strawberries or FYE? You're most likely to see 5 dead posters, 7 Brittney Spears posters, 3 Green day posters and 600,000 Led Zeppelin posters.

I live about an hour north of NYC and have NEVER EVER seen an Allman Brothers band anything to buy. I either have to go to a concert or a website. But if I wanted a Grateful Dead bathroom towel I could go anywhere.


The Allman Brothers Band are nowhere near mainstream. Not even close. They're not even well known. How can you say they are well known and mainstream if you have people in NYC at an Eric Clapton concert asking me who the blonde kid is to the right of Eric is. It's not an argument. When I saw Clapton in September people were handing out flyers and pictures of DTB and Derek playing guitar. About 4/5 people would ask the poeple handing the flyers out who they were. If the ABB were mainstream people would know about GM and DTb--or Atleast know who Derek is at a Clapton concert.

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 02:10 PM
The ABB has always been a weird hybrid. I think they are mainstream in the sense that their most famous songs are played regularly on rock radio and they are considered a great historical band and most people know the name. But the reality is that what the ABB is known for and what makes them great are two totally different things. What the band is known for today are the great blowout live shows and they are clearly part of the jam band scene. But what makes them mainstream is the fact that their early albums are so well known.

Doug

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 02:10 PM
Not in my opinion (but I do have an AARP card, so... )

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 02:18 PM
does it really matter...the ABB play the best damn music around...
 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 02:43 PM
quote:


I live about an hour north of NYC and have NEVER EVER seen an Allman Brothers band anything to buy. I either have to go to a concert or a website. But if I wanted a Grateful Dead bathroom towel I could go anywhere.


The Allman Brothers Band are nowhere near mainstream. Not even close. They're not even well known. How can you say they are well known and mainstream if you have people in NYC at an Eric Clapton concert asking me who the blonde kid is to the right of Eric is. It's not an argument. When I saw Clapton in September people were handing out flyers and pictures of DTB and Derek playing guitar. About 4/5 people would ask the poeple handing the flyers out who they were. If the ABB were mainstream people would know about GM and DTb--or Atleast know who Derek is at a Clapton concert.



I don't think that the fact that people don't know who Derek Trucks is at a Clapton concert proves anything. They went to see EC and Trucks himself is not yet famous. And the fact that FYE doesn't stock a lot of ABB merchandise shows how lame FYE is, not the ABB's following.

Who else sells out 15 concerts in NY every year? Can you name any other band? Considering they have been around 30 years, sell out concerts, have classic rock airtime, have a fairly recent kick-ass CD, have recent books written about them, have a few spin-off bands touring, I would say that they achieved "mainstream" rock status long ago and continue to sustain it.

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 03:34 PM
quote:
quote:


I live about an hour north of NYC and have NEVER EVER seen an Allman Brothers band anything to buy. I either have to go to a concert or a website. But if I wanted a Grateful Dead bathroom towel I could go anywhere.


The Allman Brothers Band are nowhere near mainstream. Not even close. They're not even well known. How can you say they are well known and mainstream if you have people in NYC at an Eric Clapton concert asking me who the blonde kid is to the right of Eric is. It's not an argument. When I saw Clapton in September people were handing out flyers and pictures of DTB and Derek playing guitar. About 4/5 people would ask the poeple handing the flyers out who they were. If the ABB were mainstream people would know about GM and DTb--or Atleast know who Derek is at a Clapton concert.



I don't think that the fact that people don't know who Derek Trucks is at a Clapton concert proves anything. They went to see EC and Trucks himself is not yet famous. And the fact that FYE doesn't stock a lot of ABB merchandise shows how lame FYE is, not the ABB's following.

Who else sells out 15 concerts in NY every year? Can you name any other band? Considering they have been around 30 years, sell out concerts, have classic rock airtime, have a fairly recent kick-ass CD, have recent books written about them, have a few spin-off bands touring, I would say that they achieved "mainstream" rock status long ago and continue to sustain it.


The Beacon is very, very small. If Billy Joel came to the Beacon for 15 nights in a row I'm sure he could do it. So could the rolling stones and plenty of others.

Your point about FYE is wrong, it's all about money. They are not lame for not selling ABB, they are going to make more money by selling the Grateful Dead stuff as compared to the Bros. And that is a fact.

About the books, Bob Dylan has about 50 books about him, Grateful dead has like 15, Jimi Kendrix has 30, and Elvis Presley has 1,000. The bros have like 3.

ABB is my favorite Band, but I don't think they could sell out MSG 15 nights in a row. But I could see people like Metallica, Rolling Stones, and mainstream artists like that doing it.

If ABB is so mainstream, Trucks should be VERY famous. He should be as well known as Clapton. There are tons of other bands who have been out there for 30+ years that can stil tour and sell out places.

Again it seems that your definition of "Mainstream America rock" is much different than mine. They are well known(IMHO not that well known, but others disargree) but not mainstream.

Just another thing, on NBC 4 the ABB were on TV in April. You want to know why?? Not because they sold the beacon out for like 12 or so years, it was because Bernie Williams joined them on stage. That is the way it goes, if Bernie wasn't there, the bros wouldn't have been on TV.

If The rolling stones even think about coming to NYC or other states its national news story. Billy Joel had his number retired in MSG with all the PLAYERS!! Famous basketball and hockey player with actual numbers go up there. For a music artist to go up is UN-HEARD OF!! He sold out some concerts and he gets is number of sold out concerts retired on the ceiling. The Bros might be big but to be "a band big enough to be known by the ordinary masses" is not correct.





[Edited on 4/15/2007 by 77ABBhaynes]

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 04:41 PM
quote:

"If ABB is so mainstream, Trucks should be VERY famous. He should be as well known as Clapton."

----------

What? The band has been around for 30 years, not D Trucks. How can you measure his personal fame to Clapton's? Trucks started with the ABB a few years ago. Clapton has been a mega star since Cream, then Layla, etc. I disagree with you. And, I never said the ABB's fame was on a par with the Stones or Billy Joel, either. That doesn't mean they are not "mainstream." Maybe you should throw in the Beatles, too. Silly logic.

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 05:30 PM
Man, some of you guys have gone waaaaaay over the deep end with this....

Lets take a look at the original quote from the writer of the article which technically is what this thred is about...

"Sure, the Dave Matthews and Allman Brothers bands are rooted in the jam genre, though both long ago crossed over into the mainstream."

MY first question would be: In this context, what is the definition of mainstream? Is it hit singles?, lots of FM airplay including stations that play new music and not just classic rock?, videos on MTV?, magazine covers?...all of the above probably and The ABB has none of that stuff going fo rthem in 2007 - and that's okay by me.

You see, its all relative to what you are comaparing it to when deciding what is mainstream. If you are camparing The ABB with Dave Matthews or Coldplay they sure as hell aren't mainstream compared to those acts. True, Dave Matthews was in the Jam circuit in the early days of the HORDE festivals etc but he certainly has made the cross over a few years ago and now sells out stadiums regularly and gets major FM airplay. I Like Dave and like his band but I do believe he sold out just a bit on what made him who he is. On the other hand, if you are comparing The ABB to New Monsoon or Tea Leaf Green or other less known Jam Bands, well then maybe they are a little mainstream compared to them - but not so when compared to really BIG commercial acts. The last time the ABB had a new song on the radio was 1994 with NOLTRW. One song in 13 years - that's hardly mainstream in my eyes. The last time I would consider The ABB being truly mainstream was around the time "Brothers and Sisters" came out when "Ramblin Man" and "Jessica" was on the radio regularly along with lots of other great music that we grew up on. The world has changed a lot since then and I would hardly consider The ABB a true "mainstream" Rock act in 2007 because they get very little FM airplay except for classic rock stations. Your mileage and opinion may vary, but I think most here would agree with me...well, maybe not, lol.






[Edited on 4/15/2007 by EddieP]

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 05:37 PM
quote:
quote:

"If ABB is so mainstream, Trucks should be VERY famous. He should be as well known as Clapton."

----------

What? The band has been around for 30 years, not D Trucks. How can you measure his personal fame to Clapton's? Trucks started with the ABB a few years ago. Clapton has been a mega star since Cream, then Layla, etc. I disagree with you. And, I never said the ABB's fame was on a par with the Stones or Billy Joel, either. That doesn't mean they are not "mainstream." Maybe you should throw in the Beatles, too. Silly logic.



Layla is a Duane Allman Riff , yet not everybody who listens to that song knows that(or for that matter knows who Duane Allman is) I'm guessing that you fit into that catergory also. Without Duane there would be no Layla, so don't throw Layla into the mix. Yet Eric Clapton gets all the credit-which is another topic for another day. Also Derek has been sitting and guesting with the Bros. for quite some time. I think mid or even early 90's. Which means he should be very well known if the Bros. are mainstream(because he IS a huge part of ABB history)

If they were Mainstream they would be everywhere. Including the West.

The Rolling Stones define mainstream. So saying ABB doesn't meet or come close near there standards is proving my point. The ABB aren't known to the masses. They are well known, fine I'll give you that, but they are not on another level of popularity and knowledge that other people have for bands like the Beatles and the Grateful dead that are 100%, no doubt, mainstream.

I believe though that they should be mainstream. There should be posters in ever music store of the ABB, they deserve it. They should be played more, tour more, etc. But it is what it is.



[Edited on 4/15/2007 by 77ABBhaynes]

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 05:51 PM
quote:
Man, some of you guys have gone waaaaaay over the deep end with this....

Lets take a look at the original quote from the writer of the article which technically is what this thred is about...

"Sure, the Dave Matthews and Allman Brothers bands are rooted in the jam genre, though both long ago crossed over into the mainstream."

MY first question would be: In this context, what is the definition of mainstream? Is it hit singles?, lots of FM airplay including stations that play new music and not just classic rock?, videos on MTV?, magazine covers?...all of the above probably and The ABB has none of that stuff going fo rthem in 2007 - and that's okay by me.

You see, its all relative to what you are comaparing it to when deciding what is mainstream. If you are camparing The ABB with Dave Matthews or Coldplay they sure as hell aren't mainstream compared to those acts. True, Dave Matthews was in the Jam circuit in the early days of the HORDE festivals etc but he certainly has made the cross over a few years ago and now sells out stadiums regularly and gets major FM airplay. I Like Dave and like his band but I do believe he sold out just a bit on what made him who he is. On the other hand, if you are comparing The ABB to New Monsoon or Tea Leaf Green or other less known Jam Bands, well then maybe they are a little mainstream compared to them - but not so when compared to really BIG commercial acts. The last time the ABB had a new song on the radio was 1994 with NOLTRW. One song in 13 years - that's hardly mainstream in my eyes. The last time I would consider The ABB being truly mainstream was around the time "Brothers and Sisters" came out when "Ramblin Man" and "Jessica" was on the radio regularly along with lots of other great music that we grew up on. The world has changed a lot since then and I would hardly consider The ABB a true "mainstream" Rock act in 2007 because they get very little FM airplay except for classic rock stations. Your mileage and opinion may vary, but I think most here would agree with me...well, maybe not, lol.






[Edited on 4/15/2007 by EddieP]


Yeah but Jam Bands like WSP and Phish get NO radio play on Classic Rock or any other commercial radio. I agree that the old Allmans were mainstream, the new Allmans are not. It's lke they are two different bands, the old warhorse and the new brilliant cutting edge.

Doug

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 06:02 PM
quote:
quote:
Man, some of you guys have gone waaaaaay over the deep end with this....

Lets take a look at the original quote from the writer of the article which technically is what this thred is about...

"Sure, the Dave Matthews and Allman Brothers bands are rooted in the jam genre, though both long ago crossed over into the mainstream."

MY first question would be: In this context, what is the definition of mainstream? Is it hit singles?, lots of FM airplay including stations that play new music and not just classic rock?, videos on MTV?, magazine covers?...all of the above probably and The ABB has none of that stuff going fo rthem in 2007 - and that's okay by me.

You see, its all relative to what you are comaparing it to when deciding what is mainstream. If you are camparing The ABB with Dave Matthews or Coldplay they sure as hell aren't mainstream compared to those acts. True, Dave Matthews was in the Jam circuit in the early days of the HORDE festivals etc but he certainly has made the cross over a few years ago and now sells out stadiums regularly and gets major FM airplay. I Like Dave and like his band but I do believe he sold out just a bit on what made him who he is. On the other hand, if you are comparing The ABB to New Monsoon or Tea Leaf Green or other less known Jam Bands, well then maybe they are a little mainstream compared to them - but not so when compared to really BIG commercial acts. The last time the ABB had a new song on the radio was 1994 with NOLTRW. One song in 13 years - that's hardly mainstream in my eyes. The last time I would consider The ABB being truly mainstream was around the time "Brothers and Sisters" came out when "Ramblin Man" and "Jessica" was on the radio regularly along with lots of other great music that we grew up on. The world has changed a lot since then and I would hardly consider The ABB a true "mainstream" Rock act in 2007 because they get very little FM airplay except for classic rock stations. Your mileage and opinion may vary, but I think most here would agree with me...well, maybe not, lol.






[Edited on 4/15/2007 by EddieP]


Yeah but Jam Bands like WSP and Phish get NO radio play on Classic Rock or any other commercial radio. I agree that the old Allmans were mainstream, the new Allmans are not. It's lke they are two different bands, the old warhorse and the new brilliant cutting edge.

Doug

Nowadays the radio is ALL commercial. Classic rock stations are few and far between. 90% of FM radio is that pop-rock crap like Gwen Stafani(sp?) and all those sell-outs. Thats what people listen to now.

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 06:08 PM
quote:
Yeah but Jam Bands like WSP and Phish get NO radio play on Classic Rock or any other commercial radio.

Exactly - and that was my point. Well, ONE of my points. We both agree, The ABB is not mainstream and should not really have been compared to Dave Matthews in that context at all. To me, The ABB of 2007 is Anti-mainstream and they are trying hard to stay that way which is what we all love about them. They are anything but a "greatest hits" band...

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 07:01 PM
quote:
quote:
Yeah but Jam Bands like WSP and Phish get NO radio play on Classic Rock or any other commercial radio.

Exactly - and that was my point. Well, ONE of my points. We both agree, The ABB is not mainstream and should not really have been compared to Dave Matthews in that context at all. To me, The ABB of 2007 is Anti-mainstream and they are trying hard to stay that way which is what we all love about them. They are anything but a "greatest hits" band...


Absolutely, I believe the ABB were mainstream in the 70's, but that said I don't believe they want to be mainstream today. ABB can easliy be mainstream again but that if you want to hear the crap that they were force to make in the early 80's.

[Edited on 4/16/2007 by allmansrvvegas]

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 07:11 PM
quote:
They are anything but a "greatest hits" band...


There sure are enough greatest hits/best of comps though. Their greatest hits, like Melissa, Blue Sky, Rambling Man, Statesboro Blues etc, can be found on numerous CDs -- five or six that come right to mind, & probably more.
Good topic -- sort of a weird catch 22 -- on the one hand you want to be successful, which often means having popular songs which help sell a lot of albums, which means they've gotten significant radio airplay and thus become "mainstream" -- on the other hand, if that happens bands can leave themselves open to being labelled as having "sold out"
The Brothers are unique in that they comfortably swim in both waters -- yes there are plenty of greatest hits, yet they can't really be labelled "mainstream" either. Personally I've always thought of them as out-of-the-mainstream jammers -- same with the Dead too.

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 09:20 PM
Absolutely, the ABB are mainstream. They have sold millions of albums, still get played on rock radio today some 35+ years after they were founded, have drawn 10-20K to ampitheatres even in recent years (there were 15,000 in bad weather in ATL last year), and they were first ballot inductees into the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. Heck, the band's post 1989 catalogue has sold nearly 2 million copies.

Now, i will agree that the ABB have another existence which includes a cult-following like the folks on this site. But then again, the band has 70,000 people on it's email dist list so it's not such a small cult in reality.

 

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 10:40 PM
quote:
quote:
Yeah but Jam Bands like WSP and Phish get NO radio play on Classic Rock or any other commercial radio.

Exactly - and that was my point. Well, ONE of my points. We both agree, The ABB is not mainstream and should not really have been compared to Dave Matthews in that context at all. To me, The ABB of 2007 is Anti-mainstream and they are trying hard to stay that way which is what we all love about them. They are anything but a "greatest hits" band...


You are totally right about this. At some point around 1991 or so, the ABB realized it was not going to return to mass popularity and made its bed in the ant-establishment scene. Now it is intentional. But the old songs will still be played on classic rock radio from now until the end of the world as we know it.

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  posted on 4/15/2007 at 10:41 PM
quote:
quote:
They are anything but a "greatest hits" band...


There sure are enough greatest hits/best of comps though. Their greatest hits, like Melissa, Blue Sky, Rambling Man, Statesboro Blues etc, can be found on numerous CDs -- five or six that come right to mind, & probably more.
Good topic -- sort of a weird catch 22 -- on the one hand you want to be successful, which often means having popular songs which help sell a lot of albums, which means they've gotten significant radio airplay and thus become "mainstream" -- on the other hand, if that happens bands can leave themselves open to being labelled as having "sold out"
The Brothers are unique in that they comfortably swim in both waters -- yes there are plenty of greatest hits, yet they can't really be labelled "mainstream" either. Personally I've always thought of them as out-of-the-mainstream jammers -- same with the Dead too.


You put it exactly right. They swim in both waters, maybe one of the only bands still playing today that does.

Doug

 

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  posted on 4/16/2007 at 08:23 AM
quote:

Layla is a Duane Allman Riff , yet not everybody who listens to that song knows that(or for that matter knows who Duane Allman is) I'm guessing that you fit into that catergory also.

----------

Ehh? I mentioned Layla as an indicator of Clapton's fame, which is indisputable. I am quite aware of Duane's role in the guitar playing on that recording and throughout the entire session. I happen to agree that his playing there is not all that well known by the "masses." That wasn't the point. It was about Derek Trucks.

I think the comment by another writer that the ABB swim in both waters sums it up here.

 

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  posted on 4/16/2007 at 09:27 AM
NONE of our music [ ABB, Led Zep, Pink Floyd, EC, etc. ] is mainstream anymore.
Listen to the RADIO.
BUT IT'S MAINSTREAM TO US
That being said."The younger generation aren't as passionate about their music". Maybe it has do with music they've been given.

Could you imagine groups of kids following Marc Anthony around the country like The Dead.NOT

[Edited on 4/16/2007 by halfskin]

 
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