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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 01:38 PM
Ann, Thanks for posting the numbers of our soldiers who died in this insane war.
And the wounded.
I wonder why no one wants to talk about days since mission accomplished.
KEEP ON POSTING HERE
Ruthie

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 02:25 PM
Thank you Ruthie....and you're right...no comment yet about the 'mission accomplished' numbers. As long as we're over there and I can type, I'll keep posting. It's a very small thing to do in the large scheme of things, but it's the one 'candle' I can keep lit until they return home.

 

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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 03:01 PM
quote:
You say in Vietnam we left to let them fight it out. Actually we abandoned an ally (I mean the logisitical and monetary aid that was cut off not actually fighting for them) while Moscow and Beijing continued to support the North, thereby making it impossible for the South to survive. But more importantly, our abandonment not only led to hundreds of thousands of refugees in Vietnam but also to the genocide in Cambodia where millions died inthe killing fields. You can argue that Vietnam was not worth one American life and I might even agree with you. But don't pretend our abandonment of South Vietnam was without serious consequence.

I said I was aware of the consequences, but my point was, they fought it out and made their own peace...whatever it was.....without our being there. And who's to say Cambodia and the fall of South Vietnam wouldn't have happened if we'd never fought over there to begin with? And I agree that Vietnam was not worth a single life lost from our involvement. Yesterday's enemy is today's friend....that being the case, why were they ever our enemy?


quote:
I was also aware of the consequences of our leaving Vietnam....and yet today, they're doing well without our occupation of their country.


After Saigon fell, the communists took over. Yeah!

As a result, a blood bath ensued as the VC and NVA took over and many were scarificed to the 'people's tribunals,'

over 300,000 South Vietnamses were put in so-called communist 're-education camps' including Catholic Bishop Nguyen Van Thuan and 72-year-old Hoa-Hao Buddhist leader Luong Trong Tuong.

Also, over 2,500 journalsts, artists, musicians, intellectuals and such were made to go through 'political purification' which communism needs to streamline the one party dictatorship,

Premier Pham Van Dong spoke to the Fourth Communist Party Congress in Hanoi and told them and the world in 1975 that one million South Vietnamese would be forcibly relocated to the North to ensure 'political purity.'

And the flight of escapees from communist Vietnam far exceeded the current exodus of folks leaving Cuba anyway they can to escape Castro's communism,

And, of course, over 2.5 million were slaughtered in cambodia in Pol Pot's genocide,


Yep, it was a good thing that them communists took over. And, they had some help;


quote:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110005025


HANOI (Reuters) - Celebrating the 29th anniversary of the fall of Saigon, the North Vietnamese general who led his forces to victory said Friday he was grateful to leaders of the anti-war movement.

"I would like to thank them", said General Vo Nguyen Giap, now 93, without mentioning Kerry by name. "Any forces that wish to impose their will on other nations will surely fail", he added.

Reuters, which first reported Giap's comments, suggested that the former enemy general was mindful of Kerry's role in leading some of the highest profile anti-war protests of the entire Vietnam War.

Before the British wire service quoted General Giap, it noted:

"The Vietnam War, known in Vietnam as the American War, has become a hot issue in the U.S. presidential race with Democrat John Kerry drawing attention to his service and President Bush's Republicans disparaging Kerry's later anti-war stand."

North Vietnamese Colonel Bui Tin, who served under General Giap on the general staff of the North Vietnamese Army, received South Vietnam's unconditional surrender on April 30, 1975.

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal after his retirement, Colonel Tin explicitly credited leaders of the U.S. anti-war movement, saying they were "essential to our strategy."

"Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9AM to follow the growth of the anti-war movement," Colonel Tin told the Journal.

Visits to Hanoi by Kerry anti-war allies Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and others, he said, "gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses."

"We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war," the North Vietnamese military man explained.

"Through dissent and protest [America] lost the ability to mobilize a will to win," Colonel Tin concluded.




quote:
Meanwhile, after you wasted all that time, you still cant admit that communism is alive and well in a number of largely populated countries such as China and NK. Either its been defeated or it hasnt. You dont get it both ways. All of what you said is true. Whats also true is that its still going on today. Russia did not change into something other than Communism. They went broke and fell apart. It had 0 to do with Democracy or anything else related to political ideology. There are fewer Communist nations now than in the past, but that can and will likely, change due to global politics. Youre too shortsighted to see that.



Actually, I am the ony one bringing it up. Castro, Il Kim, and as Chavez virtually admits that Marx is his example and he is going down the path, you couldn't care less, thinks its cute that he insulted Bush at the UN, and your buddies Sheehan, Glover, and Belafonte go down and praise him in person.

quote:
Just how do you know what we read and where we get information? Not enough attention is being given to the dead American soldiers. At this point that is more important to me than anything else and should be on the front page of every newspaper everyday.


I don't know where you live, Ruth, but here in Ohio every soldier that is killed from this part of the world is on the TV screen and in the paper, including the injured. This is also the home of Matt Maupin, the first MIA soldier in this war who has yet to be found, and whose parents are active and in the news at all times. If it isn't that way where you are at, I can't help that. We back our soldiers here.

DH

 

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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 03:22 PM
You're very loose with the terms 'your buddies', 'your friends', etc when making a point. If you're trying to tar those of us who have a differing opinion from yours with the same feather then you likewise must allow yourself to be tarred with the feather of mismanagement, lying and subtrufuge of your buddies in this administration. Your sneer comes through when you use those expressions. You wish to be considered an individual thinker and yet make no allowances for those of us who have formed our opinions based on life experience, personal experience and observation and our vision for America.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 03:26 PM
Silence.

That is what worries me. With every passing day that the administration won't talk to Iran, we come closer to an Iranian nuclear weapon, and the time at which the decision must be made whether or not the administration will use its military option.

The Bush Administration may refuse to have direct talks with Iran, but we cannot remain silent.

An attack on Iran will put additional strain on our already overextended military. It could well affect the United States' ability to extricate our forces from Iraq, as our troops will likely face even more attacks on the ground. And there will be potential for hostilities on American embassies abroad, a hike in oil prices, and an increased likelihood of terrorist attacks wherever Hizballah has active cells. You just don't know, and quite frankly, I don't want us to find out.

I need you to stand with me today.


Make your voice heard. Tell George W. Bush war with Iran is not the answer.
Your efforts are having an impact. The media is starting to pay attention. Democratic leaders in Washington are starting to act. But we can't rest now. We cannot remain silent.

Sincerely,



Wes Clark

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 03:49 PM
quote:
Yep, it was a good thing that them communists took over. And, they had some help;

http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110005025


Hysterical. Derek using communist propaganda to complain about the communists and to take a swipe at anti-war positions. How strange that the communists are such bad people, but when they say things you agree with, you "front" for them without any problem at all. Can I call you a hypocrite now?


quote:
Actually, I am the ony one bringing it up. Castro, Il Kim, and as Chavez virtually admits that Marx is his example and he is going down the path, you couldn't care less, thinks its cute that he insulted Bush at the UN, and your buddies Sheehan, Glover, and Belafonte go down and praise him in person.


I dont care who hates Bush..its about 3/4 of the planet right now and with good reason. You think communism is a threat to us, I dont. Its as simple as that. Youre an alarmist and someone who obviously doesnt understand how insignificant communisim is in the larger scheme of world politics at this point. You spent paragraph after paragraph telling us here how its been defeated but then you talk about it like its going to come and get us while we sleep. Will you please make up your mind as to where you stand? Is it a threat or has it been defeated? Again, you dont get to have it both ways.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 04:17 PM
quote:
You're very loose with the terms 'your buddies', 'your friends', etc when making a point.


Welcome to Discussions with Derek. Its his number one weapon. If you have the same opinion as the Boston Strangler, then you and the Boston Strangler are just alike and good buddies. See, you and me are good buddies with Cindy Sheehan because we dont like the war. This is Derek logic. If a bunch of people are against something, then all those people are one in the same. He does like his broad brush.

Like Ive pointed out to Derek in the past, this is a horribly dishonest way to be, but as you stay here longer, you will learn that honesty and Derek parted company long ago and he has a rather extensive history of saying whatever regardless whether its true or not. Its about making those stinging little barbs rather than any coherent points of discussion.

quote:
If you're trying to tar those of us who have a differing opinion from yours with the same feather then you likewise must allow yourself to be tarred with the feather of mismanagement, lying and subtrufuge of your buddies in this administration. Your sneer comes through when you use those expressions.


Very true, but I would suggest refraining from doing that as it would make you as dishonest as him in describing him in such broad terms.

quote:
You wish to be considered an individual thinker and yet make no allowances for those of us who have formed our opinions based on life experience, personal experience and observation and our vision for America.


One thing you will learn about Derek is that you are less than him, always.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 04:31 PM
I have noticed a few people around who subscribe to the premise 'if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull sh*t'.

And I would never stoop to tar Derek with that dirty feather....he's too busy doing it to himself.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 04:40 PM
quote:
You're very loose with the terms 'your buddies', 'your friends', etc when making a point. If you're trying to tar those of us who have a differing opinion from yours with the same feather then you likewise must allow yourself to be tarred with the feather of mismanagement, lying and subtrufuge of your buddies in this administration.


One difference, I tell it like it is, and that includes disagreeing with the Administration. I'm not a republican. For instance, I called for Rumsfield to be fired way back in 2004, I called for Cheney to be kicked off the ticket in the 2004 election, I called the notion of 'Occupation on the cheap' wrong and have suggested a different tack, I think Bush is one of the worse communicating presidents in my lifetime, I've said that we should talk to Iran, and I've brought up what is going on in the Sudan long before it was hip, back when it was about slavery instead of genocide, I have ripped on Bush up one side and down the other for not using the presidential veto on a spending bill even once, on and on.


Now, please show me a different feather, please show me some examples where you disagree with Squatch..................

 

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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 04:48 PM
quote:
Welcome to Discussions with Derek. Its his number one weapon. If you have the same opinion as the Boston Strangler, then you and the Boston Strangler are just alike and good buddies. See, you and me are good buddies with Cindy Sheehan because we dont like the war.


Are you speaking for someone else, Squatch??


quote:
Like Ive pointed out to Derek in the past, this is a horribly dishonest way to be, but as you stay here longer, you will learn that honesty and Derek parted company long ago and he has a rather extensive history of saying whatever regardless whether its true or not. Its about making those stinging little barbs rather than any coherent points of discussion.



...........One thing you will learn about Derek is that you are less than him, always.


Nope, only you. Props to Bigann, actually, as she is far less a crybaby compared to you, apparently. Wow. Boo hoo. And yet you are bringing her and others into your level of intellect and whining??? Now that's worth crying about.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 05:18 PM
quote:
Are you speaking for someone else, Squatch??


I dont know where you would get that. More redirection I guess...

quote:
Nope, only you. Props to Bigann, actually, as she is far less a crybaby compared to you, apparently. Wow. Boo hoo. And yet you are bringing her and others into your level of intellect and whining??? Now that's worth crying about.


Who's crying? Just stating the obvious and letting her know how you are. Shamelessly kissing her ass wont help you as she is smart enough to read you like a book.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 05:26 PM
quote:
Who's crying? Just stating the obvious and letting her know how you are. Shamelessly kissing her ass wont help you as she is smart enough to read you like a book.





She knows who I am, and she can take care of herself, so no ass kissing required.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 05:27 PM
quote:
One difference, I tell it like it is, and that includes disagreeing with the Administration. I'm not a republican. For instance, I called for Rumsfield to be fired way back in 2004, I called for Cheney to be kicked off the ticket in the 2004 election, I called the notion of 'Occupation on the cheap' wrong and have suggested a different tack, I think Bush is one of the worse communicating presidents in my lifetime, I've said that we should talk to Iran, and I've brought up what is going on in the Sudan long before it was hip, back when it was about slavery instead of genocide, I have ripped on Bush up one side and down the other for not using the presidential veto on a spending bill even once, on and on.[/qutoe]

blah blah blah..yadda yadda yadda

Hysterical..yet you defend this war and the actions of all the Republicans without missing a beat. Strange how you say one thing and do another...


quote:
Now, please show me a different feather, please show me some examples where you disagree with Squatch..................



Why does she have to disagree with me for your edification? What makes you think she agrees with me on anything beyond our mutal dislike of this war?

 

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Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 05:27 PM
quote:
quote:
Who's crying? Just stating the obvious and letting her know how you are. Shamelessly kissing her ass wont help you as she is smart enough to read you like a book.





She knows who I am, and she can take care of herself, so no ass kissing required.


Then you might want to stop.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 05:53 PM
Since it's my *ss being discussed, may I please state for the record I've experienced absolutely no discernable kissing whatsoever....

 

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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 07:20 PM
quote:
Since it's my *ss being discussed, may I please state for the record I've experienced absolutely no discernable kissing whatsoever....



Now ya'll leave Miss Ann's *ss out of this.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 08:01 PM
Derek it's like Gregg's song 'Everybody's Talkin', "everybody's talking, they don't tell the story right" and "they don't really want to know the truth". You DO tell it like it is, and you should continue. You should also try to get down to the big protest march if possible March 17th. www.marchonpentagon.org There are some other big grassroots things happening with regards to demanding the truth about 9/11, I gotta go deal with some of that now. It will be interesting in 2008!

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 09:02 PM
Actually, the lyrics of that particular song refer to the time when Midnight Riders was first published.... and the punch line is "It's hard to live your life in color and tell the truth in black and white." The song was started by Johnny one day while he was recording tracks for Searching For Simplicity. I worked with Johnny on the lyrics as did Scott who also worked on the music. Gregg came in, changed a chord or two and recorded the song which was a representation of how he was feeling about the book.

I suppose truth is subjective and is personal. My concept of the truth is obviously different from some others who post here. It must be intrepretation. And as for a number of issues that have been presented to the American people by this administration and congress....'Everybody's talkin' but nobody's telling the truth'

[Edited on 3/8/2007 by bigann]

 

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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 09:57 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
"through dissent and protest [America] lost the ability to mobilize and a will to win," Colonel Tin concluded
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----


That is outright absurd. Derek were you around during the Vietnam war? However sad, it has been conceeded by our Military officials, advisers to our Presidents over that period of time, historians, etc., that our military operated with one hand tied behind its back and that's a fact.

We did not lose our will to win - we were stymied by our own government.

We did not know our opponents (North Vietnamese) or even our allies (South Vietnamese) - we did not know the society.
But we went ahead and jumped into a very complicated mess. Sound familiar?

Once involved, President Kennedy's advisers could not agree on how to proceed - the South Vietnamese government was unstable. Sound familiar?

Keep in mind that the media was very restricted & filtered. (Glad we've made headway in that area thanks to the insanity of Vietnam.)

We basically knew that there was tremendous air power from the U.S. which was interpreted as suceeding - our military was able to do unlimited bombing for a while but we could not break the will of the North Vietnamese. Now, Pres. Johnson is in the picture - Johnson had to decide between losing South Vietnam or trying to save it by putting ground troops in - get out or go beyond logistical support & training. Sound familiar?

These issues were never fully debated. Sound familiar?

Jonhson chose to introduce U.S. Combat forces - which led to further intervention - 500,000 troops over a 2 to 3 year period - aka Draft. What a mess - between Johnson and Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara and plenty of other advisers - no one could agree - restrictions in bombing and on land invasions by U.S. forces on North Vietnam were enforced - under Kennedy admin the American people were led to believe our supportive efforts to the South Vietnamese were succeeding. Sound familiar?

Back to Johnson - thousands and thousands of body bags are coming back to the U.S. it was apparent to Americans that . . . hmmm . . . somethings terribly wrong - can you explain to us, Mr. Government, again what the political objective is / what is the mission because we the people will not stand behind lies and betrayal and watch our young men & women die by the thousands. Sound familiar?

And, of course, we all know that our government could not give us any answers to justify this horrible event before our eyes. Our government was divided - get the hell out or send in more troops. Sound familiar?

As the war escalated, yet failed to bring results, the young men and women in America took a very strong stance . . .
and let our government know that they weren't going to get their hands on any more of us and we were ready to stand up against our government to get our people home. I sure wish this was a familiar sound right now.

And, while we were protesting, our government was clearly seeing the writing on the wall - that they could not achieve their political objectives, that they could not break the will of the North Vietnamese when asking our military to fight with one hand tied behind their backs. And thus, the North Vietnamese literally kicked us out.

America did not lose that war due to the dissent and protest from the American people and that's a fact. ( Not to mention it is now conceeded on all levels that Vietnam was a terrible mistake. )

Our government betrayed us plain and simple. Our government did not do its job and uphold its responsibilities to the American people. Our government did not do its homework thoroughly - at the expense of thousands of young men and women and many, many Americans at home.

Have you touched "The Wall" in Washington? It should make your hair stand up on your arms - it should put a very tight knot in your stomach.

It is the American way to have a will to win - given a clear mission, a very sound objective, supported by accurate facts, intelligence, truth - America will mobilize - but damn its so difficult when you witness our government repeating horrible past mistakes . . . The Bush Admin outright lied to the American people and then added fuel to the fire by not knowing and fully understanding their opponents and allies, not fully knowing the foreign land and society, not having clear objectives,etc., and then when we started to go hmmmm . . . something is terribly wrong - the only answer given is "stay the course" which answers nothing- and, oh, yeah, call in some more ground troops, and a President who pleads with the American people to stick with him - what ever happened to the will of the people - he's not listening to us and he's not listening to many military advisers . . .

I support our men and women in the military - I grew up in a military town - and, yes, i had family and friends in Vietnam and and many connected to Nam working behind the scenes in our homeland . . . I will never regret protesting the Vietnam war because in the end the truth prevailed - I vehemently protest the war in Irag and the Bush Administration and trust that truth will prevail - I don't believe it will be nice.

And, Derek, I can promise you that my protests or BigAnn's, Ruth, SquatchTexas - and many others - will not be the determining factor in "winning" this war. Alrighty now, I just had to get this off my chest - thank you.








 

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  posted on 3/7/2007 at 11:30 PM
His name was Morgan Weed and he lived up the street from us in the early 60s. He was about four years younger than I, more the age of my oldest brother, and he would come down to our house and play basketball with the rest of the neighborhood kids who hung out at our house. He was a quiet, shy towheaded kid who was just fun to be around.

We lost track of Morgan for a few years and never knew he ended up in Vietnam. During the time he was there I became friends with a woman whose husband was there and I met several of the 'wives who waited' as they called themselves. I didn't believe in the war, as I don't believe in this one, but I don't think I'd have actively protested even if there'd been one in the town where I lived because of my friendship with this lady.

And then, as we found out later, right before the troops were withdrawn and only a couple of months before he was due to come home, Morgan was killed. He was the first one I knew of back then who served in 'nam. He left behind a young pregnant wife and the picture in the paper of her receiveing the flag from his casket still haunts me. I shared the grief through my friendship with the 'wives'. And I was ashamed of my silence.

I knew the war was wrong and I knew we'd been lied to by our elected officials. I vowed then to never be silent again when our family and friends were called on to fight a lie. And I haven't.

I've never visited the Vietnam Memorial in Washington, but coming into Alabama we have a smaller version listing the names of those who died during the war....I read the names through tears. Since then I've discovered that a lot of the kids I went to school with served, some missing limbs, some with damaged hearing, others with wounds you can't see.

I am the child of a WWII veteran, the sister of a former soldier, the cousin of a career navy man and the mother -in-law of a disabled veteran. I believe America carries in her heart the seeds of greatness......and for that reason I will continue to speak out against anything I feel diminishes all that this country could and should be.

That's where I'm coming from. Thank you bstone for your post. It helped me put what I'm feeling into words.

 

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  posted on 3/8/2007 at 06:05 AM
Great posts you two. Thanks.

 

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  posted on 3/8/2007 at 10:09 AM
I just want to clarify a few things . . . protesters can also be divided . . . and they were during the Vietnam War. Some violent, some peaceful, some non-verbal- simply wearing a "peace" pactch on clothing, some theatrical (Jane Fonda), etc.

Some protesters were sucked into extreme falsehoods, believing that our soldiers were killers and murderers - many of these protesters spit and threw things on our soldiers when they returned to the U.S. My Uncle, a fighter pilot, was one of those spit on.

Some of us were peaceful, but vocal. Protesting for truth from our government. Protesting for answers - what are we fighting for - why are thousands and thousands dying - why so many wounded - what's going on?????

And, then, Jane Fonda, who will forever be taken to the Whipping Post for her actions. There were many elected officials happy to see her come along - her actions took the focus off of their actions/mistakes.

It is difficult to say "Vietnam" without grimacing. Lies and betrayal turned our country inside-out. Lies and betrayal pitted Americans against Americans. This time in history was so so turbulent - protests were not solely related to the Vietnam war - coupled with the friction of the War was the Civil Rights Movement - the issues in America at that time goes on and on. Just mind boggling. I believe that entire era left all of us with a tremendous pain in our hearts, for various reasons, never to be forgotten.

Statistics of the dead/wounded - I don't know of anyone who takes pride in seeing them - but it is so very important and an unfortunate means of letting the American people know what is going on - when we receive news that 8 more soldiers have been blown up, we also get information as to why - what happened - it is just one of the ugly thermometers used to help the American people guage just what in fact is going on - what are our opponents doing to our soldiers - how are they fighting the war against us - how are our military and elected officials responding to our U.S. forces . . .

Ann, thank you for your efforts - thank you for your voice - thank you.

It is very apparent that the serious issues facing the American people, right now, are growing by the minute. Global foreign affairs, the war in Irag, mistreatment at Walter Reed, the economy, healthcare issues, immigration, Katrina, etc. Just mind boggling. Silence is not golden right now.

I will always reach for the 'peace-pipe' first - and, like Ann, desire and strive for what could and should be the greatness in America. Because of that, and because I have a daughter in college hoping to live the American dream, I cannot be silent and go to sleep with a clear conscience.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2007 at 10:53 AM
Bears repeating...

quote:
I just want to clarify a few things . . . protesters can also be divided . . . and they were during the Vietnam War. Some violent, some peaceful, some non-verbal- simply wearing a "peace" pactch on clothing, some theatrical (Jane Fonda), etc.

Some protesters were sucked into extreme falsehoods, believing that our soldiers were killers and murderers - many of these protesters spit and threw things on our soldiers when they returned to the U.S. My Uncle, a fighter pilot, was one of those spit on.

Some of us were peaceful, but vocal. Protesting for truth from our government. Protesting for answers - what are we fighting for - why are thousands and thousands dying - why so many wounded - what's going on?????

And, then, Jane Fonda, who will forever be taken to the Whipping Post for her actions. There were many elected officials happy to see her come along - her actions took the focus off of their actions/mistakes.

It is difficult to say "Vietnam" without grimacing. Lies and betrayal turned our country inside-out. Lies and betrayal pitted Americans against Americans. This time in history was so so turbulent - protests were not solely related to the Vietnam war - coupled with the friction of the War was the Civil Rights Movement - the issues in America at that time goes on and on. Just mind boggling. I believe that entire era left all of us with a tremendous pain in our hearts, for various reasons, never to be forgotten.

Statistics of the dead/wounded - I don't know of anyone who takes pride in seeing them - but it is so very important and an unfortunate means of letting the American people know what is going on - when we receive news that 8 more soldiers have been blown up, we also get information as to why - what happened - it is just one of the ugly thermometers used to help the American people guage just what in fact is going on - what are our opponents doing to our soldiers - how are they fighting the war against us - how are our military and elected officials responding to our U.S. forces . . .

Ann, thank you for your efforts - thank you for your voice - thank you.

It is very apparent that the serious issues facing the American people, right now, are growing by the minute. Global foreign affairs, the war in Irag, mistreatment at Walter Reed, the economy, healthcare issues, immigration, Katrina, etc. Just mind boggling. Silence is not golden right now.

I will always reach for the 'peace-pipe' first - and, like Ann, desire and strive for what could and should be the greatness in America. Because of that, and because I have a daughter in college hoping to live the American dream, I cannot be silent and go to sleep with a clear conscience.

 

____________________
Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2007 at 11:08 AM
Doug,

Saw this article today:

U.S. commander urges talks, sees Baghdad backlash
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSPAR83430220070308?src=030807_082 7_TOPSTORY_no_military_solution

quote:
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The new U.S. commander in Iraq said on Thursday military force would not end violence unless talks were held with some militant groups and warned of more "sensational attacks" during the current crackdown in Baghdad.

General David Petraeus, at his first news conference since he took command last month, also said he saw no immediate need for more U.S. troops, but reinforcements already requested would likely stay "well beyond the summer".

"There is no military solution to a problem like that in Iraq, to the insurgency of Iraq," Petraeus said.

"Military action is necessary to help improve security ... but it is not sufficient."

Political progress would require talking with "some of those who have felt the new Iraq did not have a place for them".

He said a key challenge for the Shi'ite-led government of Nuri al-Maliki was to identify those militant groups who were "reconcilable" and to bring them into the political process.


*This* would be a good way to start working towards a solution in Iraq. You HAVE to involve the groups that are currently fighting it out. This is addressing cultural concerns, individual ideologies, common goals etc. This is one of the ways you fight insurgents in an environment like Iraq. I may not agree with Petraeus on his surge idea (considering his documentation on how to fight insurgencies specifically contradicts it), but this suggestion has my support.

 

____________________
Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 27533
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Registered: 2/18/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 3/8/2007 at 11:27 AM
March deaths - 25
February deaths - 84
January deaths - 86
Total dead - 3,188

February '07 - 50
January '07 - 631
Total wounded - 33, 814

March Iraqi civilian deaths - 508
February Iraqi civilian deaths - 1,531
January Iraqi civilian deaths -1,802
Total Iraqi civilian deaths in past 14 months - 22,808

Mission Accomplished day 1,422

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 
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