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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/1/2007 at 08:45 PM

February deaths - 84
January deaths - 86
Total dead - 3,164

February '07 - 50
January '07 - 631
Total wounded - 33, 814

February Iraqi civilian deaths - 1,511
January Iraqi civilian deaths -1,802
Total Iraqi civilian deaths in past 13 months - 21,880

Mission Accomplished day 1,416

 

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Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/2/2007 at 01:16 AM
I am right here with you Ann.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/2/2007 at 12:19 PM
Thank you Ruth! We may not be a crowd....but we're together!

March deaths - 2
February deaths - 84
January deaths - 86
Total dead - 3,166

February '07 - 50
January '07 - 631
Total wounded - 33, 814

March Iraqi civilian deaths - 23
February Iraqi civilian deaths - 1,531
January Iraqi civilian deaths -1,802
Total Iraqi civilian deaths in past 14 months - 21,923

Mission Accomplished day 1,416

 

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Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/2/2007 at 12:20 PM
For some reason, the number of wounded haven't been posted for the past few weeks. That's why the numbers haven't changed.

 

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Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 11:37 AM
March deaths - 2
February deaths - 84
January deaths - 86
Total dead - 3,166

February '07 - 50
January '07 - 631
Total wounded - 33, 814

March Iraqi civilian deaths - 61
February Iraqi civilian deaths - 1,531
January Iraqi civilian deaths -1,802
Total Iraqi civilian deaths in past 14 months - 21,961

Mission Accomplished day 1,417

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 02:33 PM
Do you think it's even worth mentioning the mission what it was intended to do, what has been accomplished or anything positive at all? Or is it best to just mention the deaths in a complete and total vacuum?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 03:26 PM
We constantly hear about the cost of war in billions of dollars and
we have been told repeatedly of the "successes" by the Bush adminstration.

It seems the one thing not being reported adequately were the wounded
and the dead. It was rare to see a photo of a flag-draped coffin even.

We are not in a vacuum here. This daily report is filling in some of the blanks that are being neglected elsewhere.

I find this to be a good daily reminder of the true cost of the war in young lives.

We all have our opinions about Iraq, reporting the dead and wounded is not a
matter of opinion.

I applaud Ann for her diligence in keeping this tread going. I'll be here every day
reading her report.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 04:11 PM
As of 3/1/07

Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged)
In America'sWar On Iraq 3,163
http://icasualties.org/oif/

The War in Iraq Costs
$404,544,009,913

See the cost in your community
http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182

 

____________________
"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 04:14 PM
Contractor Could Lose $400 million
By Jay Price
The News & Observer

Friday 02 March 2007

Military contracting giant KBR Inc. could be docked up to $400 million for improperly using private security companies in Iraq, the company disclosed this week.

The Army has already said it withheld about $20 million in payments to KBR's parent company, Halliburton, because the company's subcontractors used private security contractors, including North Carolina-based Blackwater USA. Army officials have said that private security companies were not allowed under Halliburton's main contract in Iraq and that the military was to provide security.

The Army began looking into the use of private security firms by KBR's subcontractors after a congressional investigation sparked by a series of stories in The News & Observer. KBR has won billions in contracts to provide troops in Iraq with basic needs.

In its annual report to the Securities and Exchange Commission on Wednesday, KBR said the Army was continuing to review its contract and that it would begin withholding more payments unless the company "can provide timely information sufficient to show that such action is not necessary to protect the government's interests." If KBR fails, it could lose $400 million in Army payments, although the actual losses could be lower, according to the report.

KBR contends that its Army contract does not prohibit subcontractors from hiring private security services. It's unclear how many security companies might have worked under the KBR contract, but it's certain that Blackwater was not the only one.

In 2004, The N&O investigated Blackwater's work in Iraq and the deaths and public mutilation of four of its workers in Fallujah. Prompted in part by the articles, U.S. Rep. Henry Waxman, a Democrat from California who now heads the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, started an investigation into how layers of subcontracts in Iraq add to the Pentagon's costs and limit its ability to oversee the work.

It was during a hearing of Waxman's committee last month that a top Army contracting official revealed that the Army had decided to withhold $19.6 million in payments to KBR. Waxman released a statement Thursday saying that the Army's decision showed why Congress must keep an eye on Pentagon contracts.

"Our investigation might mean a savings of hundreds of millions of dollars for taxpayers," Waxman said. "It would have been better if the money had never been wasted in the first place, but there's at least a chance now to fix this expensive mistake."

-------

Comments: Sad thing is even $400 million is a drop in the bucket for Halliburton. They're still way ahead profit wise, no matter how many people are sent there to die. The newest thing is the chlorine suicide mission trucks that explode and in effect gas the troops to death. So consider the battlefield like one big gas chamber. Since the US started using those uranimum enriched munitions, the gloves are off and anything is possible. We changed the rules of engagement using liquid phosphorus on civilians so now anything goes.

 

____________________
"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 04:18 PM
quote:
Al Qaeda's outrages swing Sunnis to U.S.
By Pamela Hess
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
February 17, 2007


RAMADI, Iraq -- Sunni tribes in troubled Anbar province have begun working closely with U.S. and government forces, contributing nearly 2,400 men to the police department and 1,600 to a newly organized tribal security force, authorities say.
U.S. troops are training and equipping the new tribal forces, which are called Emergency Response Units (ERUs), and are charged with defending the areas where they live, according to the local U.S. commander.
By a U.S. count, 12 of the Ramadi area's 21 tribes are cooperating in the security effort, six are considered neutral, and three are actively hostile. That is almost the reverse of the tribal posture last June, when three were cooperative and 12 were hostile.
For nearly four years, the tribes around Ramadi survived by playing both sides, working with U.S. forces when it suited them, while at the same time helping or tolerating Sunni insurgent groups and al Qaeda in Iraq -- the terrorist organization once led by Jordanian Abu Musab Zarqawi.
That changed in August, according to U.S. Army Col. Sean MacFarland, commander of the 1st Brigade Combat Team, 1st Armored Division, which has been responsible for security operations in Ramadi since June.
Al Qaeda in Iraq -- which has also turned its intimidation tactics on the tribal leaders -- kidnapped and killed Sheik Khalid of the Albu Ali Jassim tribe and left his body where it could not be found, preventing the family from burying him within 24 hours as prescribed by Muslim tradition.
"Al Qaeda overplayed its hand," Col. MacFarland said at his headquarters, a dusty base on the west side of Ramadi.
At a meeting that month, several sheiks drew up an 11-point declaration vowing to fight al Qaeda, within the rule of law, and declaring solidarity with coalition and government security forces. It is a movement referred to by the tribes as "the Awakening."
Al Qaeda "assassinated a lot of the sheiks," said Sheik Ahmed Abureeshah, 41, whose brother, Sheik Sitar, is the driving force behind the initiative. "They killed my father. They killed three of my brothers. They killed 14 other sheiks from different tribes. ...
"Then we met the sheiks of the tribe one after one, and we decided that we must put our hands together and fight to defeat these criminals."
The tribes sent hundreds of young men to join the police -- more than 1,000 in December and more than that last month, a record recruiting effort for the province.
The men were assigned to police stations in their own tribes' neighborhoods, giving the tribes a vested interest in their success and contributing to unusually high rates of policemen turning up for work. Others were organized into the ERUs, which operate in the countryside while the police remain in the cities.
Improved security, in turn, made it possible for the brigade to pour in reconstruction money, enabling some $3 million in projects to be undertaken.
As the benefits of cooperation became evident, "the tribes began flipping, like a domino effect," Col. MacFarland said. "Almost every week, we get another sheik knocking on our door."
Ramadi remains dangerous for Americans -- Col. MacFarland's brigade has lost 85 troops in the area -- but the improvement in security is measurable.
From July 2006 to January 2007, the daily average number of attacks fell by 38 percent and roadside bomb attacks dropped by 57 percent to an 18-month low.
The roadside bombs also are getting smaller and less complex, enabling the brigade and the Iraqi police to find more than 80 percent of improvised explosive devices before they detonate.
It is "a very significant indicator that this potent weapon system has become less effective in Ramadi," Col. MacFarland said.
More important to the colonel, attacks are occurring farther from the town center and from the main road -- suggesting that residents are not tolerating insurgents the way they once did, and are tipping off police to suspicious activities.





 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 04:26 PM
quote:
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7006605124

Army Engineers Say Americans Never Hears About The "Good News" From Iraq

February 28, 2007 10:23 p.m. EST


Matthew Borghese - All Headline News Staff Writer
Baghdad, Iraq (AHN) - U.S. Army Brig. Gen. Michael J. Walsh, commander of the Corps of Engineers Gulf Region Division, spoke to reporters in Baghdad, saying that the American public knows very little about ongoing efforts to rebuild Iraq.

General Walsh says that the average American doesn't know that $22 billion of their tax dollars are being spent to "jumpstart the Iraqi economy" through almost 1,100 separate reconstruction projects.

The General explains, "We see successes in the U.S. government's construction program here" every day." While the World Bank estimated Iraq needs between $60 and $80 billion to rebuild after the 2001 invasion, the U.S. investment will "lay the foundation" to build upon the "infrastructure shortfalls of the Hussein regime"

"The vast majority of these projects are on track and good solid construction and meeting the deadlines we have set," General Walsh says."If there is only one percent of those 1,100 projects that are troubled, that's only 11 projects and its those projects that tend to spotlighted, and that's not fair to the American taxpayers or the reconstruction efforts that are under way."

"I am proud of the efforts of our team in the military, defense civilians, contractors and Iraqi associates continue to put forth in increasing the services. We have set our goals. We keep track of them, and we are going to meet them."

According to the Pentagon, projects include building 10,045 schools, completing 154 border forts, completing 97 fire stations, 34 post office projects, and renovating 102 railroad stations.

General Walsh believes "Americans should hear of the current 989 projects where we are advancing and enhancing the lives of the Iraqi people. Americans should see the photos of Iraqis being educated in clean, safe learning environments or playing in newly built youth centers. Americans should see in the infants being cared for in modern medical facilities that previously did not exist."

"We have lost good people and had setbacks due to the insurgency and security difficulties. But we still have completed more than 3,000 projects to help the country of Iraq to jumpstart its economy and solidify its infrastructure."



 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 06:02 PM
OK, here's the problem...as horrific as this may sound, 9/11 was just the beginning. There will be future attacks, and they will be worse. One does not need to be a Middle East scholar to know that a fundamental hatred of the United States has blossomed and grows every day. The Middle Eastern countries are raising a generation that believes the U.S. is the devil. Read some Thomas Friedman and the implications will scare you to death. I suggest Friedman because he's brilliant, easy to read, knows the subject matter as well as anyone yet comes from a decidely left point of view. This is not O'Reilly or Limbaugh, this is a pulitzer prize winning NY Times columnist.

State sponsored terrorists will attack us again and one day it will be a nuclear weapon and a city filled with loved ones and memories will disappear. I live in CT, what if it's NY and the fallout kills some of my family or loved ones? I understand that the Iraq war was not in retribution for a terrorist attack, but leaving now that it's messy sends the message that our President, our Congress, our military and our citizens don't have the stomach for conflict. And let's face it, right now it looks like we don't.

I don't pretend to know why they hate the US - our money, arrogance, egregious consumption of the world's resources, military strength, support of Israel and economic blackmail come most easily to mind, but I suspect there's more to it and I don't think we're as bad as they portray us. As Friedman notes, we're a convenient scapegoat for their government to blame for their peoples limited economic opportunities. Obviously this war is not helping.

Bush's idea that bringing democracy to Iraq would somehow free them and make them love us was absurd (in hindsight) and probably little more than pretense. Everyone, libs included, believed Iraq had WMD - Saddam himself did NOTHING to dispel that notion - even encouraging it by refusing UN inspections. Did it justify an invasion - I don't know - people much smarter than me read the intelligence reports and decided it did.

But we CANNOT ignore this festering hatred. I hope with all my heart that I am wrong, but I believe this is just the beginning of our conflict with the Middle East. As much as they hate us now, imagine what will happen when their oil reserves dwindle (or even better, when we finally stop using so damn much and the price drops). In their eyes, our only redeeming quality (money for oil) will dissipate and they will hate us even more - and their economies have little else to fall back on. Their leaders blame the US for their people's misery now, it will only grow.

I have close friends of Iranian descent...so I reiterate, I hope that I am wrong, but I honestly believe this conflict will, at some point, be reduced to us or them. I understand the terrorists claim no home and no country willingly claims them, but our options will be limited. This war is just the beginning...this is a people that takes a much longer view of time than we do - decades, 100s, 1000s of years. This conflict will not fit neatly into a TV mini series.

I wouldn't suggest that we abandon diplomatic efforts or attempts to understand/rehabilitate our image in the Middle East. But should that fail, and most think that it will, I see two very ugly choices:

1. We can pull out of Iraq, do our mea culpas, limp home with our tails between our legs and put our heads in the sand thinking "Well, we haven't had a terrorist attack at home in almost six years, let's ignore this huge group of people that hates us and wants to kill us. Maybe the attacks will be limited to other countries. I know this war wasn't about a terrorist attack, but pulling out does portray as not having the stomach to fight in retaliation for future attacks.

2. We could stop being politically correct about this. I suppose one thing we could salvage out of this war is to establish some deterrent effect. We can show the world that we are still the baddest mother f-ckers and have the resolve to do what we need to. Pull our troops the hell out of there - we've lost enough precious lives already - then turn the rest of the country into a parking lot from about 10 miles up. And let Iran and North Korea know they have 2 weeks to give up the nuclear weapons or they're next. Civilian casualties would occur, but they don't care about them and they started this. This is immoral and not what we are all about as a country.

I don't like either of these options, and I wish I were smart enough to think of others, but I don't think we have much choice. Right now we're trying to split the hair, doing nothing and not pleasing anyone.

In the short run, we can pretend that no attacks will happen here, and the further we get from 9/11, the easier that is, but that's foolish. I hope (and pray) that the next person we elect has the vision and the wisdom to see the solution and the charisma to lead the world to it. I have children ages 17, 15, 11 and 8. They are the generation that will fight future wars and I can't bear the thought of losing them - here or overseas.

One last thought - we're a very lucky people to be able to voice our disparate views in open forums with absolutely no fear of state retribution whatsoever. Many people are not so fortunate.

Greg

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 06:38 PM
quote:
quote:
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7006605124

Army Engineers Say Americans Never Hears About The "Good News" From Iraq

February 28, 2007 10:23 p.m. EST


Matthew Borghese - All Headline News Staff Writer
Baghdad, Iraq (AHN) - U.S. Army Brig. Gen. Michael J. Walsh, commander of the Corps of Engineers Gulf Region Division, spoke to reporters in Baghdad, saying that the American public knows very little about ongoing efforts to rebuild Iraq.

General Walsh says that the average American doesn't know that $22 billion of their tax dollars are being spent to "jumpstart the Iraqi economy" through almost 1,100 separate reconstruction projects.

The General explains, "We see successes in the U.S. government's construction program here" every day." While the World Bank estimated Iraq needs between $60 and $80 billion to rebuild after the 2001 invasion, the U.S. investment will "lay the foundation" to build upon the "infrastructure shortfalls of the Hussein regime"

"The vast majority of these projects are on track and good solid construction and meeting the deadlines we have set," General Walsh says."If there is only one percent of those 1,100 projects that are troubled, that's only 11 projects and its those projects that tend to spotlighted, and that's not fair to the American taxpayers or the reconstruction efforts that are under way."

"I am proud of the efforts of our team in the military, defense civilians, contractors and Iraqi associates continue to put forth in increasing the services. We have set our goals. We keep track of them, and we are going to meet them."

According to the Pentagon, projects include building 10,045 schools, completing 154 border forts, completing 97 fire stations, 34 post office projects, and renovating 102 railroad stations.

General Walsh believes "Americans should hear of the current 989 projects where we are advancing and enhancing the lives of the Iraqi people. Americans should see the photos of Iraqis being educated in clean, safe learning environments or playing in newly built youth centers. Americans should see in the infants being cared for in modern medical facilities that previously did not exist."

"We have lost good people and had setbacks due to the insurgency and security difficulties. But we still have completed more than 3,000 projects to help the country of Iraq to jumpstart its economy and solidify its infrastructure."






You and I probably would not agree on much except music.
We are both on this website and I love Billy Joe Shaver
Ruthie

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 10:39 PM
I have an idea.....first, let's ask Halliaburton for the return of the 400 million or so dollars missing and then, instead of spending 3 million dollalrs on projects, mentioned in a previous article, we could spend 30 million and divert the remaining 370 million to true homeland security.

Let's take some of that 22 billion we're investing in Iraq and bring it back home to hire agents to secure our borders and ports. We could find out why the several million dollar Homeland Security project that was supposed to hook up all the police computers isn't working and fix it. We could pay for additional police officers to beef up security and we could bring our National .....and I repeat National...as in our nation...guardsmen back home and equip them fully with the latest armament and technology so we would have our own force to combat terror on our soil.

It was said terrorists have no country.....well then, we can stop trying to find them in other countries and devote more resources to find them in this one. I don't see how anyone can believe this country is more secure with so many of our National guardsmen abroad.....it was reported on the news recently that their ability to protect America has been greatly diminshed by dwindling reserves and inadequate equipment in the National Guard.

Oh, and let's send some of that money to help rehab the returning soldiers in state of the art hospitals. Why is Walter Reed in a shambles? Partly because this administration announced its closing...funding was lost because no one wanted to invest in something that is slated to be closed and as yet, there has been no replacement built.

When I read about how much Halliburton has squandered and realize how much good that money could do to secure our country I get livid. I'd cut them off at the knees, prosecute the offenders and make an example out of anyone making excessive profits at our troops expense. Maybe then we could get a handle on the situation. This isn't a republican or democrat issue.....this is America's problem...and last time I checked, we're all Americans.

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 11:50 PM
quote:
We constantly hear about the cost of war in billions of dollars and
we have been told repeatedly of the "successes" by the Bush adminstration.

It seems the one thing not being reported adequately were the wounded
and the dead. It was rare to see a photo of a flag-draped coffin even.

We are not in a vacuum here. This daily report is filling in some of the blanks that are being neglected elsewhere.

I find this to be a good daily reminder of the true cost of the war in young lives.

We all have our opinions about Iraq, reporting the dead and wounded is not a
matter of opinion.

I applaud Ann for her diligence in keeping this tread going. I'll be here every day
reading her report.


It's not neglected to me. I am fully aware of the costs as are most of the war's supporters. But are you aware of the benefits? Of what has been gained? Of how the average soldier over there feels about the mission? About how ordinary Iraqi's feel about being freed from the yoke of a tyrant? Of what the costs of failure are? Of what the benefits of victory are? Or is it all filtered through those who have either given up altogether or who actually want the mission to fail?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 11:52 PM
quote:
OK, here's the problem...as horrific as this may sound, 9/11 was just the beginning. There will be future attacks, and they will be worse. One does not need to be a Middle East scholar to know that a fundamental hatred of the United States has blossomed and grows every day. The Middle Eastern countries are raising a generation that believes the U.S. is the devil. Read some Thomas Friedman and the implications will scare you to death. I suggest Friedman because he's brilliant, easy to read, knows the subject matter as well as anyone yet comes from a decidely left point of view. This is not O'Reilly or Limbaugh, this is a pulitzer prize winning NY Times columnist.

State sponsored terrorists will attack us again and one day it will be a nuclear weapon and a city filled with loved ones and memories will disappear. I live in CT, what if it's NY and the fallout kills some of my family or loved ones? I understand that the Iraq war was not in retribution for a terrorist attack, but leaving now that it's messy sends the message that our President, our Congress, our military and our citizens don't have the stomach for conflict. And let's face it, right now it looks like we don't.

I don't pretend to know why they hate the US - our money, arrogance, egregious consumption of the world's resources, military strength, support of Israel and economic blackmail come most easily to mind, but I suspect there's more to it and I don't think we're as bad as they portray us. As Friedman notes, we're a convenient scapegoat for their government to blame for their peoples limited economic opportunities. Obviously this war is not helping.

Bush's idea that bringing democracy to Iraq would somehow free them and make them love us was absurd (in hindsight) and probably little more than pretense. Everyone, libs included, believed Iraq had WMD - Saddam himself did NOTHING to dispel that notion - even encouraging it by refusing UN inspections. Did it justify an invasion - I don't know - people much smarter than me read the intelligence reports and decided it did.

But we CANNOT ignore this festering hatred. I hope with all my heart that I am wrong, but I believe this is just the beginning of our conflict with the Middle East. As much as they hate us now, imagine what will happen when their oil reserves dwindle (or even better, when we finally stop using so damn much and the price drops). In their eyes, our only redeeming quality (money for oil) will dissipate and they will hate us even more - and their economies have little else to fall back on. Their leaders blame the US for their people's misery now, it will only grow.

I have close friends of Iranian descent...so I reiterate, I hope that I am wrong, but I honestly believe this conflict will, at some point, be reduced to us or them. I understand the terrorists claim no home and no country willingly claims them, but our options will be limited. This war is just the beginning...this is a people that takes a much longer view of time than we do - decades, 100s, 1000s of years. This conflict will not fit neatly into a TV mini series.

I wouldn't suggest that we abandon diplomatic efforts or attempts to understand/rehabilitate our image in the Middle East. But should that fail, and most think that it will, I see two very ugly choices:

1. We can pull out of Iraq, do our mea culpas, limp home with our tails between our legs and put our heads in the sand thinking "Well, we haven't had a terrorist attack at home in almost six years, let's ignore this huge group of people that hates us and wants to kill us. Maybe the attacks will be limited to other countries. I know this war wasn't about a terrorist attack, but pulling out does portray as not having the stomach to fight in retaliation for future attacks.

2. We could stop being politically correct about this. I suppose one thing we could salvage out of this war is to establish some deterrent effect. We can show the world that we are still the baddest mother f-ckers and have the resolve to do what we need to. Pull our troops the hell out of there - we've lost enough precious lives already - then turn the rest of the country into a parking lot from about 10 miles up. And let Iran and North Korea know they have 2 weeks to give up the nuclear weapons or they're next. Civilian casualties would occur, but they don't care about them and they started this. This is immoral and not what we are all about as a country.

I don't like either of these options, and I wish I were smart enough to think of others, but I don't think we have much choice. Right now we're trying to split the hair, doing nothing and not pleasing anyone.

In the short run, we can pretend that no attacks will happen here, and the further we get from 9/11, the easier that is, but that's foolish. I hope (and pray) that the next person we elect has the vision and the wisdom to see the solution and the charisma to lead the world to it. I have children ages 17, 15, 11 and 8. They are the generation that will fight future wars and I can't bear the thought of losing them - here or overseas.

One last thought - we're a very lucky people to be able to voice our disparate views in open forums with absolutely no fear of state retribution whatsoever. Many people are not so fortunate.

Greg




What you wrote is very wise and very reasonable. Which is why it will be rejected by the left, by the people who hate Bush more than our jihadist enemies.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/3/2007 at 11:54 PM
quote:
I have an idea.....first, let's ask Halliaburton for the return of the 400 million or so dollars missing and then, instead of spending 3 million dollalrs on projects, mentioned in a previous article, we could spend 30 million and divert the remaining 370 million to true homeland security.

Let's take some of that 22 billion we're investing in Iraq and bring it back home to hire agents to secure our borders and ports. We could find out why the several million dollar Homeland Security project that was supposed to hook up all the police computers isn't working and fix it. We could pay for additional police officers to beef up security and we could bring our National .....and I repeat National...as in our nation...guardsmen back home and equip them fully with the latest armament and technology so we would have our own force to combat terror on our soil.

It was said terrorists have no country.....well then, we can stop trying to find them in other countries and devote more resources to find them in this one. I don't see how anyone can believe this country is more secure with so many of our National guardsmen abroad.....it was reported on the news recently that their ability to protect America has been greatly diminshed by dwindling reserves and inadequate equipment in the National Guard.

Oh, and let's send some of that money to help rehab the returning soldiers in state of the art hospitals. Why is Walter Reed in a shambles? Partly because this administration announced its closing...funding was lost because no one wanted to invest in something that is slated to be closed and as yet, there has been no replacement built.

When I read about how much Halliburton has squandered and realize how much good that money could do to secure our country I get livid. I'd cut them off at the knees, prosecute the offenders and make an example out of anyone making excessive profits at our troops expense. Maybe then we could get a handle on the situation. This isn't a republican or democrat issue.....this is America's problem...and last time I checked, we're all Americans.


Let's be honest here. We can NEVER make this country secure enough to block the jihad from coming here. We must defeat or at least diminish the jihad. If I agree that it has not been done properly over the past six years you need to at least agree that we can't sit back and play goal while our enemies find ways to penetrate our blessedly free and open country.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/4/2007 at 01:21 AM
Seems to me, before you go out looking for a burgler you might lock your house. If we're going to go after terrorists, I would think we should secure this country first. To go after an enemy in unfamiliar territory without world wide support is sheer folly. To leave our country underprotected is beyond dangerous. It's not sitting back and playing goal to consider this country's security first....it's locking the door before we go after the burgler.

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/4/2007 at 01:39 AM
quote:
quote:
We constantly hear about the cost of war in billions of dollars and
we have been told repeatedly of the "successes" by the Bush adminstration.

It seems the one thing not being reported adequately were the wounded
and the dead. It was rare to see a photo of a flag-draped coffin even.

We are not in a vacuum here. This daily report is filling in some of the blanks that are being neglected elsewhere.

I find this to be a good daily reminder of the true cost of the war in young lives.

We all have our opinions about Iraq, reporting the dead and wounded is not a
matter of opinion.

I applaud Ann for her diligence in keeping this tread going. I'll be here every day
reading her report.


It's not neglected to me. I am fully aware of the costs as are most of the war's supporters. But are you aware of the benefits? Of what has been gained? Of how the average soldier over there feels about the mission? About how ordinary Iraqi's feel about being freed from the yoke of a tyrant? Of what the costs of failure are? Of what the benefits of victory are? Or is it all filtered through those who have either given up altogether or who actually want the mission to fail?



You and I are so far apart on this I doubt we could ever convince each other of much.
I feel very strongly about this and I've read all the articles and listened to the news. I am well informed but I just don't see things your way. I won't accuse you of anything, like thinking in a vacuum. You have a right to your views. I suppose I am in "the left" you speak of. And right now I'm proud to be there.
Ruthie

[Edited on 3/4/2007 by ruthelane]

BTW I don't hate Bush more than the jihadists. I don't hate him at all, I just believe
he is wrong-headed and incompetent.

[Edited on 3/4/2007 by ruthelane]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/4/2007 at 01:49 AM
quote:
Seems to me, before you go out looking for a burgler you might lock your house. If we're going to go after terrorists, I would think we should secure this country first. To go after an enemy in unfamiliar territory without world wide support is sheer folly. To leave our country underprotected is beyond dangerous. It's not sitting back and playing goal to consider this country's security first....it's locking the door before we go after the burgler.



AMEN TO THAT!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/4/2007 at 04:23 AM
quote:
It's not neglected to me. I am fully aware of the costs as are most of the war's supporters. But are you aware of the benefits?


Theres benefits to all the dead people, missing money, corruption, Pakistani complicity etc.? You were led down a path by some very bad people. Its ok if you want to feel differently about all this now.

quote:
Of what has been gained?


Such as what?

quote:
Of how the average soldier over there feels about the mission?


You will find as many that are for the war as are against it, I wager.

quote:
About how ordinary Iraqi's feel about being freed from the yoke of a tyrant?


...to be occupied by a foreign army. To have less electricity and water than they did under Saddam...to worry like never before about sending their kids to school...the hundreds of attacks per day on the population... yeah, Im sure they are thrilled. Keep in mind that these people "freed from the yoke of a tyrant" are the same people that want us OUT of Iraq. All those people throwing roses at our feet never did quite materialize despite the best efforts of Cheney and others to say it would be so.

quote:
Of what the costs of failure are?


We have been watching the costs of failure for the past 4 years. Where have you been?

quote:
Of what the benefits of victory are?


Define victory. Tell us how you defeat a tactic. Tell us how you defeat a guerilla army with conventional forces. So far, our military and our glorious leader have been unable to do any of this.

quote:
Or is it all filtered through those who have either given up altogether or who actually want the mission to fail?


Nobody wants the "mission" to fail. It was failed from the start. Some of us were able to see that ahead of time. The "mission" was to get rid of the WMD that didnt exist. The mission got bastardized into something else in an effort to make the best of a bad situation, but people much smarter than your president were ignored in favor of saving face and staying the course. Now, we are laying in the bed we made.

 

____________________
Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

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  posted on 3/4/2007 at 04:36 AM
quote:
Let's be honest here. We can NEVER make this country secure enough to block the jihad from coming here.


Jihad. Its the new communism. The 50's had McCarthy, the 00's has Rush Limbaugh and his idiot followers. "Jihad" is no more a threat now than it was 20 years ago. Its been blown way, way out of proportion. If you really fear some idiots with a perverted view of Islam being any more dangerous than say, some idiots with a perverted view of Christianity, then I would suggest that you are a long way down the path to being brainwashed by those that have very little understanding of this entire issue. Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh and others are loons. Dont follow that line of thinking, please.

quote:
We must defeat or at least diminish the jihad.


Please tell everyone how we can defeat a ideology. I hate to tell you this, but Islam is not the problem...its the people who interpret it to be not what it was intended. It reminds me of people like Koresh and Jim Jones for instance.

quote:
If I agree that it has not been done properly over the past six years you need to at least agree that we can't sit back and play goal while our enemies find ways to penetrate our blessedly free and open country.


They dont have to come here to affect us. They can hit our interests anywhere on the planet. As Ive said before, there doesnt have to be a concerted effort against us. One person could do a lot of damage...this is one of the reasons why I believe the so called threat to us is very overstated. If these people really wanted to hit us, you would be reading about bus bombings, mall bombings, day care center bombings etc. on a daily basis. This country would basically have to be on a lockdown / martial law status to stop anyone.

 

____________________
Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/4/2007 at 11:29 AM
March deaths - 6
February deaths - 84
January deaths - 86
Total dead - 3,170

February '07 - 50
January '07 - 631
Total wounded - 33, 814

March Iraqi civilian deaths - 91
February Iraqi civilian deaths - 1,531
January Iraqi civilian deaths -1,802
Total Iraqi civilian deaths in past 14 months - 21,991

Mission Accomplished day 1,418


 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/4/2007 at 12:49 PM
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
About how ordinary Iraqi's feel about being freed from the yoke of a tyrant?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



...to be occupied by a foreign army. To have less electricity and water than they did under Saddam...to worry like never before about sending their kids to school...the hundreds of attacks per day on the population... yeah, Im sure they are thrilled. Keep in mind that these people "freed from the yoke of a tyrant" are the same people that want us OUT of Iraq. All those people throwing roses at our feet never did quite materialize despite the best efforts of Cheney and others to say it would be so.



It took from 1776 to 1789 for the United States Of America to come up with a Constitution. The Iraqi government has been in power for less than a year. I do have toadmit, however, that your longing for the days of Saddam and how he should still be in power and that things were better under his regime is consistent. In 14 of the 18 provinces, folks in Iraq are getting things together, the sharing of the oil with the Sunni's will be worked out shortly, Patreaus is doing a good job so far, and the potential is still there for this to work out. But the idea that the liberals on here have a problem with this simply because it hasn't gone right for a long time is bogus. At the core of it is not our troops, many of which think you pathetic, but is as simple as appeasement. We keep reliving the past, yet we are there right now and the situation is dynamic, and cut and run seems to be the prevailing thought. I knew that any sense of good news from Iraq, yet again, would not go down well with the appeasers, and I was right.

quote:
Jihad. Its the new communism.


Stupidity. It's the same old liberalism. But then again, your incredibly limited intellect doesnt give a damn about those that have and still do live under communism and other forms of dictatorship, so why start now. In fact, you admire those dictators that thumb their nose at Bush whenever possible. What it comes down to is the folks that live under such conditions are considered "those people," and they're not you, so you don't give a rat's ass. Hence the admiration for Saddam and Chavez and the rest.

quote:
Its been blown way, way out of proportion. If you really fear some idiots with a perverted view of Islam being any more dangerous than say, some idiots with a perverted view of Christianity, then I would suggest that you are a long way down the path to being brainwashed by those that have very little understanding of this entire issue


Yep, folks, Islamo-fascist movement is not real, and in fact, is less dangerous that the so-called Christian movements of the world right now in 2007. I refuse to believe that all athiest liberals are this stupid, therefore I will try and not stereotype.

quote:
OK, here's the problem...as horrific as this may sound, 9/11 was just the beginning. There will be future attacks, and they will be worse. One does not need to be a Middle East scholar to know that a fundamental hatred of the United States has blossomed and grows every day. The Middle Eastern countries are raising a generation that believes the U.S. is the devil. Read some Thomas Friedman and the implications will scare you to death. I suggest Friedman because he's brilliant, easy to read, knows the subject matter as well as anyone yet comes from a decidely left point of view. This is not O'Reilly or Limbaugh, this is a pulitzer prize winning NY Times columnist.

State sponsored terrorists will attack us again and one day it will be a nuclear weapon and a city filled with loved ones and memories will disappear. I live in CT, what if it's NY and the fallout kills some of my family or loved ones? I understand that the Iraq war was not in retribution for a terrorist attack, but leaving now that it's messy sends the message that our President, our Congress, our military and our citizens don't have the stomach for conflict. And let's face it, right now it looks like we don't.

I don't pretend to know why they hate the US - our money, arrogance, egregious consumption of the world's resources, military strength, support of Israel and economic blackmail come most easily to mind, but I suspect there's more to it and I don't think we're as bad as they portray us. As Friedman notes, we're a convenient scapegoat for their government to blame for their peoples limited economic opportunities. Obviously this war is not helping.

Bush's idea that bringing democracy to Iraq would somehow free them and make them love us was absurd (in hindsight) and probably little more than pretense. Everyone, libs included, believed Iraq had WMD - Saddam himself did NOTHING to dispel that notion - even encouraging it by refusing UN inspections. Did it justify an invasion - I don't know - people much smarter than me read the intelligence reports and decided it did.

But we CANNOT ignore this festering hatred. I hope with all my heart that I am wrong, but I believe this is just the beginning of our conflict with the Middle East. As much as they hate us now, imagine what will happen when their oil reserves dwindle (or even better, when we finally stop using so damn much and the price drops). In their eyes, our only redeeming quality (money for oil) will dissipate and they will hate us even more - and their economies have little else to fall back on. Their leaders blame the US for their people's misery now, it will only grow.

I have close friends of Iranian descent...so I reiterate, I hope that I am wrong, but I honestly believe this conflict will, at some point, be reduced to us or them. I understand the terrorists claim no home and no country willingly claims them, but our options will be limited. This war is just the beginning...this is a people that takes a much longer view of time than we do - decades, 100s, 1000s of years. This conflict will not fit neatly into a TV mini series.

I wouldn't suggest that we abandon diplomatic efforts or attempts to understand/rehabilitate our image in the Middle East. But should that fail, and most think that it will, I see two very ugly choices:

1. We can pull out of Iraq, do our mea culpas, limp home with our tails between our legs and put our heads in the sand thinking "Well, we haven't had a terrorist attack at home in almost six years, let's ignore this huge group of people that hates us and wants to kill us. Maybe the attacks will be limited to other countries. I know this war wasn't about a terrorist attack, but pulling out does portray as not having the stomach to fight in retaliation for future attacks.

2. We could stop being politically correct about this. I suppose one thing we could salvage out of this war is to establish some deterrent effect. We can show the world that we are still the baddest mother f-ckers and have the resolve to do what we need to. Pull our troops the hell out of there - we've lost enough precious lives already - then turn the rest of the country into a parking lot from about 10 miles up. And let Iran and North Korea know they have 2 weeks to give up the nuclear weapons or they're next. Civilian casualties would occur, but they don't care about them and they started this. This is immoral and not what we are all about as a country.

I don't like either of these options, and I wish I were smart enough to think of others, but I don't think we have much choice. Right now we're trying to split the hair, doing nothing and not pleasing anyone.

In the short run, we can pretend that no attacks will happen here, and the further we get from 9/11, the easier that is, but that's foolish. I hope (and pray) that the next person we elect has the vision and the wisdom to see the solution and the charisma to lead the world to it. I have children ages 17, 15, 11 and 8. They are the generation that will fight future wars and I can't bear the thought of losing them - here or overseas.

One last thought - we're a very lucky people to be able to voice our disparate views in open forums with absolutely no fear of state retribution whatsoever. Many people are not so fortunate.

Greg



I don't agree with all of it, but I appreciate most of it. The Head-In-The-Sand Brigade just doesn't get what is going on in the real world. Good stuff.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/4/2007 at 03:36 PM
quote:
Seems to me, before you go out looking for a burgler you might lock your house. If we're going to go after terrorists, I would think we should secure this country first. To go after an enemy in unfamiliar territory without world wide support is sheer folly. To leave our country underprotected is beyond dangerous. It's not sitting back and playing goal to consider this country's security first....it's locking the door before we go after the burgler.


How about doing both concurrently? The problem is that every single thing the administration wants to do to "lock the door" is opposed by the left and civil libertarians. Let me hear some of your ideas to "lock the door". Other than check every single container entering the country which is just not feasible.

 

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