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Author: Subject: Buyers of Scalped Tickets

Peach Head





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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 04:25 PM
News Flash! We live in a free market society. I would love for everyone to have an equal shot at the best seats at the Beacon for every show (for every concert for that matter), but the reality is such that there are people up and down the line that have a better connection/game plan/scam to the ticketing process than you and I, my Brothers and Sisters. The reward for being 1st in line is access to the choicest seats...which may or may not be resold. However, the BUYERS of those resold seats are the ones that have put you and I in the position that we find ourselves in today. Don't be angry at the band...they're here to make the music we all enjoy. Don't be angry at Lana or Rowland. And as much as Ticketmaster and MSG tork me off for their gouging ways, don't be angry at them. For that matter...don't be angry at the scalpers (after all, the nature of a rat is to be a rat). It is our very own Peach-Eatin' Brothers and Sisters, no lesser fans of the Allman Brothers Band than you and I, that buy their tickets from the scalpers that really do the most harm. Now, what do you get if you have no buyers for scalped tickets? Scalpers that don't pay the connected few for the choicest seats? Seats that aren't yanked from the ticket pool and remain available for the average ABB fan? Like I said, we live in a free market society. Little freedom of choice goes a long way...Enjoy the 2007 run.

Peace,
Dave

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 04:33 PM
Dave,

Well said and you are exactly right.
I remember at Dead shows how we would protest against the scalpers and people were pretty good about not buying from them until after the show started and the scalpers had to cut their prices. Of course, this was pre Ebay days but I think the same type of attitude should go on in front of the Beacon. A nice "Scalpers are Scum" chant or something like that to let them know they are not welcome.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 04:37 PM
This has been my position the whole time, the scalpers exist because there are people who patronize them. It's about supply and demand. Reality is that especially in the NY Metro market there are many people with bottomless pocketbooks that won't even waste their time trying to get tickets through conventional means, they'll just wait until their ticket agent gets the choicest seats and pay what ever they ask for them. The only way that this problem will be solved is for the Attorney General's office to take action against the grossly inflated reselling of tickets by designating the activity as illegal, confiscate the illegally resold tix and fine both the buyers and sellers.
 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 05:52 PM
i agree somewhat, the brothers certainly have no control over this, nor rowland or lana, but come on now, saying don't blame ticketbastard or the scalpers, blame us fans, pleeeaaassseee. we all wait all year for good seats for these shows. and if you can't get them any other way, honestly, if you like them as much as we all do and you not going to see them cause you couldn't get good seats through normal channels,( for whatever reason) then what are you gonna do? pay or not go that's it, those are your 2 choices.

and please don't use "free market society" as an excuse for greedy scum that use their political connections to screw the public once again. THAT, my friend, is what is decaying our society. hankpipes is right on when he says a crackdown by the atty. gen. office is our only hope. but, we all know that story too.

and what would happen to these tours if there was only a half filled beacon?

 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 05:52 PM
quote:
News Flash! We live in a free market society. I would love for everyone to have an equal shot at the best seats at the Beacon for every show (for every concert for that matter), but the reality is such that there are people up and down the line that have a better connection/game plan/scam to the ticketing process than you and I, my Brothers and Sisters. The reward for being 1st in line is access to the choicest seats...which may or may not be resold. However, the BUYERS of those resold seats are the ones that have put you and I in the position that we find ourselves in today. Don't be angry at the band...they're here to make the music we all enjoy. Don't be angry at Lana or Rowland. And as much as Ticketmaster and MSG tork me off for their gouging ways, don't be angry at them. For that matter...don't be angry at the scalpers (after all, the nature of a rat is to be a rat). It is our very own Peach-Eatin' Brothers and Sisters, no lesser fans of the Allman Brothers Band than you and I, that buy their tickets from the scalpers that really do the most harm. Now, what do you get if you have no buyers for scalped tickets? Scalpers that don't pay the connected few for the choicest seats? Seats that aren't yanked from the ticket pool and remain available for the average ABB fan? Like I said, we live in a free market society. Little freedom of choice goes a long way...Enjoy the 2007 run.

Peace,
Dave

Nice to see you understand that we live in a free market society - unfortunately your conclusion (blame those willing to pay more) misses the mark utterly.

Why are tickets to an event any different than any other commodity that can be freely purchased in our society? Do you feel similar spite for those who drive Ferrari's or live in exclusive neighborhoods with million+ price tags? After all, you could have the same - if you achieved enough to afford them.

But somehow concert tickets should be different in the minds of many here - please explain why?

I'm sure I'll hear the typical litany of "the bands true fans should get the best tickets". Really? What's your plan for measuring that? I've been around long enough to have bought all the ABB releases when they were first issued (and did buy most of them). I've seen them in various incarnations over the years, and still love to see them live. I only discovered this website a year ago, so does that reduce my status of fan-hood? In some cosmic fandom measuring formula, would that put me further back in the status line?

You were right to say that it's a free market, but your conclusion should have been that the scalpers exist because the tickets are obviously priced lower than many are willing to pay. Demand exceeds supply, and money will chase after an item considered valuable up to the point where the buyer says "that's too much". Trying to alter that by any formula which says who should and who shouldn't be able to buy at a certain price is market manipulation, cronyism, or worse. In what other product would you accept such conditions of purchase?

In a true free market, like it or not, the tickets would be auctioned. You pick a section in which you would like to sit, you make a bid, and you see what happens at the end. To make it completely fair, no tickets should be "held back" by the band, the promoter, or the venue. Everything available equally.

I hear the howls now: "but only the well-to-do would get all the good seats". Likely so, but at least the profits would go to the band and not some slimy scalper. And who says there aren't plenty of well-to-do types that don't love the music as much as everyone else? Obviously the very existance of the secondary market says that is precisely the case!

You want a free market - that's how it works. Isn't that how it functions for virtually every other thing you buy (other than monoply-based good like electricity). Why are tickets any different?

[Edited on 1/6/2007 by Fujirich]

 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 05:58 PM
Step away from the scalper...

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 06:05 PM
quote:
Step away from the scalper...

If you are implying I am, then let me assure you I am not. No where close.

I just fail to understand why so many feel that their emotion of loving the music and the band somehow should overcome normal market forces that set the prices for the things we all buy. Why are tickets different? I'm not asking to be controversial - just posing an alternative point of view - and what I think is a reasonable question.

I've been very emotionally attached to the idea of living on the beach in Maui for 30+ years. Should that somehow give me a preferential shot at buying property there?

[Edited on 1/5/2007 by Fujirich]

 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 06:08 PM
I agree, but don't blame the fan who has no choice. He either buys a ticket from a scalper or stays home. If everyone all of a sudden stops buying from scalpers the Beacon would be half empty. I don't like it either but it is up to the band and the ticket agency to curb this behavior. These tickets are at a premium and the scalpers know that. I would never pay over face value. Prices are already too high. If I can't get a ticket from Ticketbastard I will stay home this year, as much as that would suck. I wish they could throw all the scalpers in jail and give us fans a fair shot at the tickets but its been going on forever and probably will continue forever. Maybe they should start doing mail orders the way the Dead used to.

Pete

 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 06:11 PM
I'm not implying that anybody is anything. Was just making a smart-alec comment (you know...step away from the bong... step away from the scalper...). Sorry if I've offended you...didn't mean for my post to seem to be directed to anybody in particular, just to the topic of the thread.

[Edited on 1/5/2007 by lolasdeb]

 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 06:19 PM
quote:
Sorry if I've offended you...

No offense taken - all's well - I just wanted to avoid the potential of being labeled in that manner.

Much as anything, my comments are intended to promote a healthy debate, if that's possible on this touchy subject!

 

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Peach Bud



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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 06:30 PM
If an equitable ticket distribution system existed, scalpers would not have unfair access to tickets, true fans could get their tickets properly and only a few stragglers would have to resort to scalping, probably not enough to make scalping profitable.
But this has been addressed in the NY tri state area a few times but no one can seem to defeat the scalpers.
Where is the Einstein that can address this?

 

Peach Head



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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 08:16 PM
quote:
quote:
News Flash! We live in a free market society. I would love for everyone to have an equal shot at the best seats at the Beacon for every show (for every concert for that matter), but the reality is such that there are people up and down the line that have a better connection/game plan/scam to the ticketing process than you and I, my Brothers and Sisters. The reward for being 1st in line is access to the choicest seats...which may or may not be resold. However, the BUYERS of those resold seats are the ones that have put you and I in the position that we find ourselves in today. Don't be angry at the band...they're here to make the music we all enjoy. Don't be angry at Lana or Rowland. And as much as Ticketmaster and MSG tork me off for their gouging ways, don't be angry at them. For that matter...don't be angry at the scalpers (after all, the nature of a rat is to be a rat). It is our very own Peach-Eatin' Brothers and Sisters, no lesser fans of the Allman Brothers Band than you and I, that buy their tickets from the scalpers that really do the most harm. Now, what do you get if you have no buyers for scalped tickets? Scalpers that don't pay the connected few for the choicest seats? Seats that aren't yanked from the ticket pool and remain available for the average ABB fan? Like I said, we live in a free market society. Little freedom of choice goes a long way...Enjoy the 2007 run.

Peace,
Dave

Nice to see you understand that we live in a free market society - unfortunately your conclusion (blame those willing to pay more) misses the mark utterly.

Why are tickets to an event any different than any other commodity that can be freely purchased in our society? Do you feel similar spite for those who drive Ferrari's or live in exclusive neighborhoods with million+ price tags? After all, you could have the same - if you achieved enough to afford them.

But somehow concert tickets should be different in the minds of many here - please explain why?

I'm sure I'll hear the typical litany of "the bands true fans should get the best tickets". Really? What's your plan for measuring that? I've been around long enough to have bought all the ABB releases when they were first issued (and did buy most of them). I've seen them in various incarnations over the years, and still love to see them live. I only discovered this website a year ago, so does that reduce my status of fan-hood? In some cosmic fandom measuring formula, would that put me further back in the status line?

You were right to say that it's a free market, but your conclusion should have been that the scalpers exist because the tickets are obviously priced lower than many are willing to pay. Demand exceeds supply, and money will chase after an item considered valuable up to the point where the buyer says "that's too much". Trying to alter that by any formula which says who should and who shouldn't be able to buy at a certain price is market manipulation, cronyism, or worse. In what other product would you accept such conditions of purchase?

In a true free market, like it or not, the tickets would be auctioned. You pick a section in which you would like to sit, you make a bid, and you see what happens at the end. To make it completely fair, no tickets should be "held back" by the band, the promoter, or the venue. Everything available equally.

I hear the howls now: "but only the well-to-do would get all the good seats". Likely so, but at least the profits would go to the band and not some slimy scalper. And who says there aren't plenty of well-to-do types that don't love the music as much as everyone else? Obviously the very existance of the secondary market says that is precisely the case!

You want a free market - that's how it works. Isn't that how it functions for virtually every other thing you buy (other than monoply-based good like electricity). Why are tickets any different?

[Edited on 1/6/2007 by Fujirich]


In regards to my utterly off-the-mark conclusion, might I offer the following: There is No Market if there is No Demand for a Product or Service. In plain English, Fuji, you canít make me buy if Iím not willing to pay the price. While I may want to go to a given show, I am not willing to do business with a scalper because it ultimately harms me and my fellow ABB fan.

Your argument is centered on ticket pricing being too low. While you may be right (perhaps this yearís price increase didnít catch your attention), it does not address that fact that purchasing from a price-gouging scalper ultimately harms the true (fan-in-seat) market by inflating the ticket price. Reasoning that the secondary market exists because of the high demand is correct, BUT it does not mean that scalping tickets should be allow to flourish and grow.

If things keep going a long with out some adjustment to the ticket distribution model, then the band may choose to go the same route that the Rolling Stones took and charge an outrageous amount of money per ticket that the average working fan could never afford. Fuji, my friend, Iím pretty sure that none of us want to pay those kind of prices.

Your comment about ďtrue fanĒ status is way off base. Are you trying to justify some level of fan entitlement (Quite frankly, isnít that what the pre-pre-sale was all about)?

My point about scalpers and their customers: take them both out of the equation, level the playing field and give the true (fan-in-seat) market a fair a shot at choice seats.

Yes, life is not fair. The band can charge its fan as much as it wants for a seat to a show. A free marketing will level itself out at the price point where supply and demand meet, however, if you want to stand up for immoral and corrupt behavior that justifies scalping tickets, be my guest. I just want to see my Brothers and Sisters get a fair shake.

Peace,
Dave

 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 08:31 PM
Well, if push comes to shove, and I can't get a weekend pair in Orchestra, I will pay a scalper. I hate saying that, but my not doing that will have no effect.

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 08:35 PM
Fortunately with the following the ABB has, it is fairly easy to get a ticket without having to buy from scalpers. There is a forum here specifically for that purpose. I've bought and sold tickets here where fans are just trying to recoup what they've put out, with no profit. I've also sold extras on Craigslist and sold them for what I paid - to other real fans. On any given show night you can find a loyal fan who's just looking to sell the extra that his friend wimped out on for what he paid. Anyone who resorts to a scalper has not explored all the resources that exist for tickets. Either that or they just don't care where they get a ticket from or how much they pay. People like that who enable scalpers are just as guitly as the scalpers themselves. If no one bought from scalpers, scalpers wouldn't exist.
The only recourse we have is that scalping is illegal and we can only depend on the police to enforce the statutes that exist. Short of the police shutting down every scalper we have no choice but to live and deal with it. Enjoy the show!

 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 09:38 PM
I've sold some tickets for face value through the website that I could have scalped, because I thought the right thing to do was to offer them to fans. That doesn't make me a hero, but I'm kind of screwed now. I was able to get 2 mediocre seats for 3/31 but I always go with the same group of four - every year since they began the Beacon Run. So now we have to hope we get lucky tomorrow, or maybe find some fan who has two extra (yeah likely) or pay the scalper. That, or two guys who are huge fans stay home this year. It is what it is.

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 09:47 PM
Good points by all.

For me - the facts are these.

If I was in the US, I'd be first in line at MSG box office to get tickets to a couple of these shows. But I can't - I'm in Australia.

I've never seen the ABB. As for many of you, the ABBare, to say the least, a big part of my life and have been for a couple decades. I've never before had the means to be able to make a trip to the US to see them. And it's such a big trip to do to 'see a band' that I never really thought of it as a reality/something I could/should do.

Now with the current line up - and for the first time having the means to do it - there is no way I want to miss seeing them at the Beacon in a few months.

So with all my might and hope - I'm going to try and get good seats by legit means - ie TM - but the fact of the matter is - the cost of buying a ticket off a scalper for a GREAT seat is trivial on top of what I have to pay for the rest of the trip and to get there.

I'm not going to let the ideals of purchasing a scalped tickets get in the way of me having a great seat. Not for (what is going to be for me) - the gig of my lifetime.

My once in a lifetime chance to see the core ABB.

WITH DT.

WITH OTEIL.

WITH WARREN HAYNES.

Anyway - advanced apologies if I do buy a ticket from a scalper - but I will first do my best with TM and through the forum here.

Either way - I'll catch you at the show.

 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 09:52 PM
Good points by all.

For me - the facts are these.

If I was in the US, I'd be first in line at MSG box office to get tickets to a couple of these shows. But I can't - I'm in Australia.

I've never seen the ABB. As for many of you, the ABBare, to say the least, a big part of my life and have been for a couple decades. I've never before had the means to be able to make a trip to the US to see them. And it's such a big trip to do to 'see a band' that I never really thought of it as a reality/something I could/should do.

Now with the current line up - and for the first time having the means to do it - there is no way I want to miss seeing them at the Beacon in a few months.

So with all my might and hope - I'm going to try and get good seats by legit means - ie TM - but the fact of the matter is - the cost of buying a ticket off a scalper for a GREAT seat is trivial on top of what I have to pay for the rest of the trip and to get there.

I'm not going to let the ideals of purchasing a scalped tickets get in the way of me having a great seat. Not for (what is going to be for me) - the gig of my lifetime.

My once in a lifetime chance to see the core ABB.

WITH DT.

WITH OTEIL.

WITH WARREN HAYNES.

Anyway - advanced apologies if I do buy a ticket from a scalper - but I will first do my best with TM and through the forum here.

Either way - I'll catch you at the show.



OUR BRO FROM AUSTRALIA:

You do what you have to to get here and see these guys - it will be well worth it. And, this has been some good reading and I have to throw in that this guy here wanting to make this big expensive trip here is a perfect (and valid) example of the demand for "scalped" tickets. I have to admit that there is sometimes a valid reason for coughing up lots-o-cash for a particular show. So, my friend, I hope you get tickets either way and have a great trip to NYC - see you there!!

 

Peach Head



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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 10:10 PM
Thanks man.

I think I'll be able to get good tickets through TM and/or the forum anyway.

One other thing I was going to add - the ABB have never come to Australia - it costs the earth for a band to come down here (they might be southern but they aren't THAT southern!!) - and the fan base here is too small to justify it anyway.

LUCKILY for me - EC is coming here (he hasn't played in Australia for 17 years) and obviously DT is in the band. Good tickets through TM for EC are $300 (USD) a seat!!

That is rediculous - but it's DT so I'm there.

So relatively - if I paid $300 US for a ticket to the ABB (which would obviously be from the enemy) - it'd be the same price I'm paying to see DT with Clapton.

Anyway - whatever. I just want to see the allman brothers (at the beacon).

And I'm heading to Yogi's after the shows.

 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 11:11 PM
if you have a weed (no, not that kind) in your garden and you go out and pull off some of the leaves, it may appear like you took care of the problem, but you havn't. it will grow back. you need to destroy it from the roots. and the roots here are, people that are given the opportunity to make money off us, as well as the abb, just because they're connected. i don't have a solution, but i think the root of the problem needs to be correctly identified first. and it is not the band loving fans, that i do believe for sure. and from what i 've read about our band (and i'm not speaking for them), just speaking from my faith in what i conceive them to be, they would not approve of the way their fans are being treated either.
also, fyi, someone gave me 2 tix to the rolling stones in foxboro, ma this year, i could not believe when i got there, they were selling tickets for $20.00 at the gate and not even close to a sell out crowd. good show by the way, but they're no allman bros. i'm sure somebody took notice of that, maybe tic prices will be more reasonable next time around.
one more thing, thank god for the good people on this site who help out other fans without trying to make a buck. it goes to show you it's all about the music for abb fans. the rest of the "free market" world could learn a lot from us.
and daveno you sound very smart.

 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 11:35 PM
Well what they did to stop (and it worked) scalpers for Clapton's Australian leg (and they are doing this here more and more) - is to price the tickets by section (which they are for this too) - except they priced the tickets to what would be the max value anyone would pay for a show. So scalpers didn't buy the tickets cause there would be too great a risk of loss.

And that's how to get to the root of the problem. Make it so it's not worth scalping them.

But I don't mean by price hiking them like they did for EC (and other shows here) - that's as unfair as scalpers - ie it's true fans that miss out.

The best way I've seen to eliminate scalpers is to set up controls on the purchase of tickets.

1. is that there is a maximum number you can buy (which they do already)

2. is that you have to show your credit card you purchased the tickets with at the gig otherwise you aren't going in. So if you have 4 tickets for 3 friends you are all going in together.

Another example of eliminating (or drastically reducing scalpers) in Australia was with sport. England came down here for Australian summer (ie now) to play Australia in cricket. It's a massive event when this happens and because England won the last series 1-2 years ago thousands of English fans were coming over to Australia for the series. THOUSANDS.

English scalpers are as bad if not worse than any in the world. Very full on especially for sporting events.

To circumvent this The Australian Cricket Board put out warnings that people who purchased tickets from scalpers would not be allowed into the game. They went so far as to monitor all the big/known scalpers on eBay - saw what they'd bought and were auctioning and CANCELLED those tickets and re-issued new ones for sale.

I think eBay helped them out a bit too.

Online auction sites obviously don't help the issue either cause they are the main vehicle for scalping to take place.

But just like everyone - they want 'a piece of the action' too. The only step towards it they seem to have done on it is to adhere/vaguely enforce the laws of re-sale of tickets by stating you can only sell them at face. (I say vaguely cause sometimes people pull stunts like sell a cd $400 which happens to come with 'free' front row tickets to a show.

Online auction houses want their commission.

When I was 15 (I'm 34 now) - I'd go to a concert and stand out the front. If tickets were $50 I'd go up to a scalper and offer them $20 and tell them to come see me when they were selling them at that price. They didn't like that, but I'd usually end up with a ticket if I couldn't find one of a fan. Usually - I would find a fan who hated the scalpers as much as I did and was happier to sell a ticket to me - even if it was less than what a scalper offered them for it. They preferred not dealing with the scalper and also to go see the gig with a fan they met outside anyway.

The internet has obviously fuelled the fire for scalpers.

To really stop it though - I think there are a few steps that could be put in place to make it really hard for it to happen - but people (companies) would start losing out on their piece of the cake so nothing much is done.

Also - do TM care about scalpers? As long as they sell out shows they maximize their commission. Scalpers help sell out shows - by buying blocks of tickets AND by basically creating false demand.

It's a tough one for many reasons.

[Edited on 1/6/2007 by letyoursoulshine]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 11:44 PM
Fujirich basically took the words out of my mouth. Every product or service which is sold in the world falls under the same category. Some companies/stores sell for more than others. They try and maximize their profits. Every time that you choose one grocery store over the other, you are doing the same thing.

Some people are willing to pay more for better quality. We all do it. A scalper or agency is doing business. Maybe not a very moral, giving way in a peace and love manner. But what company does? Are tobacco companies, arms dealers and distilleries just a little more guilty than the average scalper? Yet we will go to a show where some will smoke and drink over-priced alcohol and co,plain about the scalpers. In my view, there are far greater things for us to worry about than where our seats are in a small venue.

If some ABB fan wants to shell out his money to sit up front than that is his/her business. If they have the money and want to spend it on great seats to see their favorite band then all that matters is if they have a good time for their dollar value. We all know that they will. I personally wouldn't do it but I choose not to spend my money that way.


 

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  posted on 1/5/2007 at 11:54 PM
quote:
In regards to my utterly off-the-mark conclusion, might I offer the following: There is No Market if there is No Demand for a Product or Service.

Completely agreed - but the demand is huge, creating all the action in the secondary world. That genie is not going back in the bottle.
quote:
In plain English, Fuji, you canít make me buy if Iím not willing to pay the price. While I may want to go to a given show, I am not willing to do business with a scalper because it ultimately harms me and my fellow ABB fan.


Certainly you have the freedom to choose as you wish, but you are making a judgement about this hurting the portion of ABB fans that don't share the concern at the same monetary level you do.
quote:
Your argument is centered on ticket pricing being too low. While you may be right (perhaps this yearís price increase didnít catch your attention), it does not address that fact that purchasing from a price-gouging scalper ultimately harms the true (fan-in-seat) market by inflating the ticket price. Reasoning that the secondary market exists because of the high demand is correct, BUT it does not mean that scalping tickets should be allow to flourish and grow.


I completely agree, but saying that the scalpers shouldn't exist AND prices should remain at face value ignores the obvious. The scalpers now rank as some of the most profitable organizations in the overall ticket market. I hate that fact. I say deal with reality; let ticket prices go to where the market is going to take them anyway, but get the scalper out of the equation and let the band realize the profit from what the market will bring.
quote:
If things keep going a long with out some adjustment to the ticket distribution model, then the band may choose to go the same route that the Rolling Stones took and charge an outrageous amount of money per ticket that the average working fan could never afford. Fuji, my friend, Iím pretty sure that none of us want to pay those kind of prices.


Well, isn't that what happens to almost every other item we buy? There's many neighborhoods I'd love to live in but can't afford. However I don't feel that for the good of the group those places should be devalued. I'm questioning the thought process that so many use to claim that ticket prices should somehow be treated in a differnt manner. If it's a free market as your post stated at the outset, then buyers should have the freedom to pay what they feel comfortable paying.
quote:
Your comment about ďtrue fanĒ status is way off base. Are you trying to justify some level of fan entitlement (Quite frankly, isnít that what the pre-pre-sale was all about)?

Actually I'm questioning statements that regularily go something like: "the band should do more to see that the real fans get a shot at good tickets". There's lots of variations to that basic theme. It suggests that some process be developed to judge who these people are. That immediately kills any concept of a free market, because it asks that some be preferred more than others by a criteria that is not equally applied.
quote:
My point about scalpers and their customers: take them both out of the equation, level the playing field and give the true (fan-in-seat) market a fair a shot at choice seats.


I believe we are exactly in line on this point. I'll bet you were as frustrated as I during the pre-sale because of a lack of choice seats. We probably part ways though in regard to proposing a solution. I say have an auction where access is applied evenly to all, and let the band profit in the result. I don't know any other way to deal with the reality that ticket prices will go far higher than face value AND the desire to get rid of the scalpers. I'd love to hear other ideas.
quote:
Yes, life is not fair. The band can charge its fan as much as it wants for a seat to a show. A free marketing will level itself out at the price point where supply and demand meet, however, if you want to stand up for immoral and corrupt behavior that justifies scalping tickets, be my guest. I just want to see my Brothers and Sisters get a fair shake.


I'm with you 100%, but definitions of "fair" may vary widely.

I think we are much closer in viewpoint on this than apart. I choose to view the value of ticket prices much as I would any other commodity; the price should be set by the market demand. To alter that by some measurement or rules of "who's the best fan, or most deserving" applies a judgement that can also be viewed as unfair by many. We accept that the price of so many things we buy as set by market conditions; why should tickets be different?

Ignoring that has brought us to where we are today - a bunch of undeserving scum making profit off a product that they add no value to. If the market is willing to pay more - a LOT more in many cases - then I suggest that an auction is the only way to keep the concepts of a free market intact while insuring that the profits go to the band - who are the most deserving in the whole equation.

 

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  posted on 1/6/2007 at 12:17 AM
I disagree with the price issue. Raise prices to take away scalpers would never work. The scalpers would just charge more. Maybe make a lower % but they would still be there.

Now lowering the price would have a huge effect. If tickets were greatly reduced than the profit margin for a scalper would be far lower and less attractive. $5-$10 a ticket sounds about right. The band would have to make far less but let's face it. the Beacon is very profittable for them. People get mad at the scalpers and not mad at the artists or athletes. I guarentee that they are making more off of you than any scalper. But that is another debate.

When Govt Mule was playing all those small club shows for $15-$20 i never saw one scalper there.

 

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  posted on 1/6/2007 at 03:26 AM
quote:
I disagree with the price issue. Raise prices to take away scalpers would never work. The scalpers would just charge more. Maybe make a lower % but they would still be there.

I'm not suggesting to charge more or less. I'm suggesting that only via an open auction can ticket prices quickly reach the value that they will eventually hit anyway. If that auction is run by the promoter and the band, then at least the profits go to them. The thought of the scalpers profiting off all this while contributing nothing to the music or the performance is probably offensive to all of us.

The scalpers price and margin changes given what people are willing to pay. If they advertise for weeks and no one buys, they will eventually drop the price to a point where someone will buy. The originator of this thread was correct in identifying the buyer as the driving force in that equation. Where I parted opinion with him was in thinking that buyers should or would stop bidding up the value of ticket prices. It's simply not going to happen, nor should a free-market system allow it to happen. It doesn't happen for most everything else we buy.
quote:
Now lowering the price would have a huge effect. If tickets were greatly reduced than the profit margin for a scalper would be far lower and less attractive.

Actually, just the opposite would occur. The greater the difference between the acquisition cost and what the market will pay, the higher the incentive for someone to obtain the item initially and try to resell at the highest price. If ticket face value was $10 and you knew you had a pretty good shot at selling that for $400, you be much more motivated to find a way to acquire those tickets than if the face value was $100. $390 profit versus $300. A scenario like that would insure even more effort on the part of scalpers to find influence and get the best tickets at face value.

You have a limited quantity product, and you set the initial price at a level 3x, 4x, 5x (or less) than what many buyers are willing to pay. Then you have a marketplace (the internet) that brings buyers together with sellers with lightning efficiency. That can only add up to one thing: a thriving black market.

I say cut out the one player who adds nothing to the equation (the scalper), have the band and promoter run the auction, and let the people who bring you the music reap the rewards. It seems that the main force holding back a change like this is the history of how tickets have been priced and sold. Like lot's of other things, it could easily change. Heck; it already has changed - thus the birth of a thriving scalper market. The part that hasn't changed too much yet is how the band and promoter sets up the initial ticket sale. But I bet it won't be long that they will continue to put up with huge profits going to someone who contributes nothing. Why should they?

[Edited on 1/6/2007 by Fujirich]

 

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  posted on 1/6/2007 at 04:56 AM
Absolutely if you dropped the price scalpers would just make more.

The case I stated of them (the promoter) raising the price is a real one - and one I don't like. I think it's a bit elitist. ie money wins - similar to buying off a scalper.

And - for the record - I'm not all for a promoter getting a big slice of the pie either. I want the band to get the bucks - not a bunch of suits, a record company or a scalper.

Maybe they could put DT on the door and we just hand him fifty bucks as we go in.

 
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