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Author: Subject: This Day in Baseball Part 2

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 06:40 PM
quote:
Julio Franco
Julio Cesar Franco
born Julio Cesar Robles Franco

Bats Right, Throws Right
Height 6' 0", Weight 165 lb.


Debut April 23, 1982
vs. STL 4 AB, 1 H, 0 HR, 0 RBI, 0 SB
Born August 23, 1958 in Hato Mayor, D.R.


Kind of funny that debuted 6 days after I was born.

quote:
The Boston Red Sox return to their glorious and rightful spot atop the baseball world in '07.


yup

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 06:42 PM
Sosa got offered a contract by the Rangers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2733168

not much risk in giving him a minor league contract.

He's got a good chance of hitting a lot balls out in Arlington

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 06:43 PM
quote:
quote:
Julio Franco
Julio Cesar Franco
born Julio Cesar Robles Franco

Bats Right, Throws Right
Height 6' 0", Weight 165 lb.


Debut April 23, 1982
vs. STL 4 AB, 1 H, 0 HR, 0 RBI, 0 SB
Born August 23, 1958 in Hato Mayor, D.R.


Kind of funny that debuted 6 days after I was born.

quote:
The Boston Red Sox return to their glorious and rightful spot atop the baseball world in '07.


yup


So young.. so naive...

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 06:55 PM
quote:
Julio Franco
Julio Cesar Franco
born Julio Cesar Robles Franco

Bats Right, Throws Right
Height 6' 0", Weight 165 lb.


Debut April 23, 1982
vs. STL 4 AB, 1 H, 0 HR, 0 RBI, 0 SB
Born August 23, 1958 in Hato Mayor, D.R.


LOL, I'm just throwing that number out there because you have to get out your Baseball magic decoder ring to figure out the age of a lot of players.
Latin players in particular.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not attacking latins, it's because we don't have access to their Birth Certificates as easily as here, and we can't hide our age as much, although I'm sure a lot would, but it's almost common knowledge they almost ALL lie about their age..lol.
We just add 2-4 yrs to what ever they say they are.
Luis Tiant admitted to lying about his age years later. I really don't think management cares, as long as they can still hit, and
no doubt though, your right...the man can still hit!
But can he sustain all year avoiding injury. A lot of these guys are making the switch from Steriods to HGH, and they can't take amphenimine any more. We are still not sure how this is going to wear on them. The next couple years are going to be very telling.

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 06:57 PM
true.

I wonder how old Mariano really is

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 07:02 PM
quote:
Sosa got offered a contract by the Rangers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2733168

not much risk in giving him a minor league contract.

He's got a good chance of hitting a lot balls out in Arlington


I like Hidalgo's chances in Minute Maid more than Sosa's.

 





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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 07:02 PM
quote:
true.

I wonder how old Mariano really is



He's 28 OK!! and he's going to stay 28!!! he's never going to stop pitching!! Never ! You hear me Never!!
Sigh...man, when he's gone, that's it. maybe 2 more Years as "MO" ? I just want him to save the first win at the New Yankee Stadium in '09, and I'll be ok with him retiring
Like Duane..a once in a Lifetimer.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 07:06 PM
quote:
quote:
Julio Franco
Julio Cesar Franco
born Julio Cesar Robles Franco

Bats Right, Throws Right
Height 6' 0", Weight 165 lb.


Debut April 23, 1982
vs. STL 4 AB, 1 H, 0 HR, 0 RBI, 0 SB
Born August 23, 1958 in Hato Mayor, D.R.


LOL, I'm just throwing that number out there because you have to get out your Baseball magic decoder ring to figure out the age of a lot of players.
Latin players in particular.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not attacking latins, it's because we don't have access to their Birth Certificates as easily as here, and we can't hide our age as much, although I'm sure a lot would, but it's almost common knowledge they almost ALL lie about their age..lol.
We just add 2-4 yrs to what ever they say they are.
Luis Tiant admitted to lying about his age years later. I really don't think management cares, as long as they can still hit, and
no doubt though, your right...the man can still hit!
But can he sustain all year avoiding injury. A lot of these guys are making the switch from Steriods to HGH, and they can't take amphenimine any more. We are still not sure how this is going to wear on them. The next couple years are going to be very telling.



You have a point!

Many lie about their age from Central America and the Dominicans etc. In Franco's case he wants to play when he is 50 so if was older I think he would have said something that he lied. He is very proud of the way he keeps his body in shape to do what he does.

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 07:09 PM
quote:
quote:
true.

I wonder how old Mariano really is



He's 28 OK!! and he's going to stay 28!!! he's never going to stop pitching!! Never ! You hear me Never!!
Sigh...man, when he's gone, that's it. maybe 2 more Years as "MO" ? I just want him to save the first win at the New Yankee Stadium in '09, and I'll be ok with him retiring
Like Duane..a once in a Lifetimer.


I saw an interview with him last year, and he commented that his goal was to pitch in the "new" Yankee Stadium ..

Like you said.. 2 maybe 3 years tops.

Maybe they will continue to groom Proctor??

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 07:17 PM
quote:
quote:
true.

I wonder how old Mariano really is



He's 28 OK!! and he's going to stay 28!!! he's never going to stop pitching!! Never ! You hear me Never!!
Sigh...man, when he's gone, that's it. maybe 2 more Years as "MO" ? I just want him to save the first win at the New Yankee Stadium in '09, and I'll be ok with him retiring
Like Duane..a once in a Lifetimer.


That is going to be a sad day

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 07:18 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
true.

I wonder how old Mariano really is



He's 28 OK!! and he's going to stay 28!!! he's never going to stop pitching!! Never ! You hear me Never!!
Sigh...man, when he's gone, that's it. maybe 2 more Years as "MO" ? I just want him to save the first win at the New Yankee Stadium in '09, and I'll be ok with him retiring
Like Duane..a once in a Lifetimer.


That is going to be a sad day


Indeed

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 08:29 PM
Hey Guys..I heard an interesting thing the other day that made me think (now you know what that noise was).
They (ESPN) were talking about the Hall of Fame, and the automatic numbers...500 homers for players 300 wins for pitchers..those are automatic..right?
Then, they start talking about pitchers today, and how it will be hard for many, if any, to reach the 300 platue anymore, and I have to agree...
So, ( I know you see where I'm going) will they have to set a new bar for pitchers to get in? Does it mean lowering the standards. So many guys around 275 wins aren't in. So what happens to them if the bar is lowered..do they get walked in? Like a Tommy John for example? What about Jack Morris?!! Game seven World Series..you want Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry...or even Nolan Ryan (all in the HOF).. or Jack Morris? No brainer to me.
I would like to hear what you all think. Thanks

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 09:18 PM
quote:
Hey Guys..I heard an interesting thing the other day that made me think (now you know what that noise was).
They (ESPN) were talking about the Hall of Fame, and the automatic numbers...500 homers for players 300 wins for pitchers..those are automatic..right?
Then, they start talking about pitchers today, and how it will be hard for many, if any, to reach the 300 platue anymore, and I have to agree...
So, ( I know you see where I'm going) will they have to set a new bar for pitchers to get in? Does it mean lowering the standards. So many guys around 275 wins aren't in. So what happens to them if the bar is lowered..do they get walked in? Like a Tommy John for example? What about Jack Morris?!! Game seven World Series..you want Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry...or even Nolan Ryan (all in the HOF).. or Jack Morris? No brainer to me.
I would like to hear what you all think. Thanks


As far as hitting 500 hrs, there are 5 players with 500 or more that are not in the hall. 3 of them are retired. One was eligible this year. As Duane would say, "I wonder who?" The other 2 are Sosa & Palmeiro. Don't think any one of them is getting in soon, particularly Palmeiro. The 2 active players are Bonds* & Griffey, Jr. Both will most likely get in. There could be up to 4 players make it to 500 this year. Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez & A-Rod. Sheffield has 455. I can see those 4 getting into the HOF, probably not Sheffield though (unless it's on the oldtimer's ballot in the far future).

But pitchers needing to reach 300 wins? There are plenty of pitchers in the HOF without 300 wins. Jim Palmer comes to mind. 268 wins. Whitey Ford - 236. Bob Feller - 266 (although his career was put on hold for 4 years when he went to war). Catfish Hunter - 224. Sandy Koufax only had 164.

There is only one active pitcher with over 300 wins, Greg Maddux. He is definately in. Roger Clemens is also over 300. (don't know if he's active/retired.....yet). Players who are close are Tom Glavine (290), Randy Johnson (280), Mike Mussina (239), David Wells (230). I say they all have a good chance of getting in, even if they retired tomorrow. John Smoltz has 193. I'd say he'll probably be in one day too.

But I would say that if a pitcher gets to 300 wins he's a lock for the HOF, 'cause everyone that's done is in.

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 09:56 PM
I think you also have to take into consideration a pitchers ERA as well.
Nolan Ryan could have even more wins then he did if he had played on better teams.

That being said, even if Glavine and Randy retired today I think they are HOF worthy regardless of the 300 win mark.

As for Jack Morris, I think he was VERY overrated.Yea, that game in 91 is prolly the best performance I have ever seen on the mound.

Sutton, Perry, and Phil Neikro should not be in, IMHO.. Just a product of longetivity.

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 09:56 PM
Oh, and looks like a last hurrah

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2732682


Yankee Stadium to host '08 All-Star Game

By Buster Olney
ESPN The Magazine


Yankee Stadium will be the site of the 2008 All-Star Game, sources in baseball said, in the last year of the ballpark.

The new Yankee Stadium is scheduled to open in 2009, and old Yankee Stadium closed, 86 years after the ballpark was first built in 1923, and 33 years after the ballpark was remodeled on the same site in 1976. With the All-Star Game slated to be in an AL park in 2008, officials chose Yankee Stadium for the site, believing it to be an appropriate way to usher out the historic building.

The All-Star Game has been held in Yankee Stadium three times previously, the last time in 1977.

An announcement on the selection of Yankee Stadium is expected in the days ahead, perhaps next week, with Major League Baseball coordinating with the Mayor's office in New York.

Next summer's All-Star Game will be played in San Francisco, and on Monday night, Commissioner Bud Selig formally announced that the 2009 All-Star Game will be played in St. Louis.

Buster Olney is a senior writer at ESPN The Magazine.




[Edited on 1/17/2007 by WharfRat]

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 09:58 PM
All good points, but you certainly picked the exceptions to the rule

There are plenty of pitchers in the HOF without 300 wins. Jim Palmer comes to mind. 268 wins. Whitey Ford - 236. Bob Feller - 266 (although his career was put on hold for 4 years when he went to war). Catfish Hunter - 224. Sandy Koufax only had 164.
These guys are not compilers, and I guess that is who I am focusing on.
And I always wondered If Koufax had his career backwards ( 6 incredible years first, and then 5 not really good at all), if he would have gotten in so easy? I for one thinks he belongs..But that is a question..
And turn that around and talk about Don Mattingly..he had 6 no question HOF years in a row No question! But they were his first 6, .. his next 5 were awful due to a back injury..caused by Cliff Johnson messing around in the Clubhouse Wrestleling!!!..I hear tell!
If he had his the other way, his last 5 yrs first, and went out with a back injury, AFTER the 6 monster years..I think he would be in!
Don't forget..there are supposed to be intangebles that go along with getting in..not just numbers. representing the game right, dominate at your position for 10 years to name 2...he did those things!!
I may be looking partly through pinstriped glasses, but I don't think i'm too far off base.
Your OBJECTIVE opinion, please.

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 10:03 PM
quote:
All good points, but you certainly picked the exceptions to the rule

There are plenty of pitchers in the HOF without 300 wins. Jim Palmer comes to mind. 268 wins. Whitey Ford - 236. Bob Feller - 266 (although his career was put on hold for 4 years when he went to war). Catfish Hunter - 224. Sandy Koufax only had 164.
These guys are not compilers, and I guess that is who I am focusing on.
And I always wondered If Koufax had his career backwards ( 6 incredible years first, and then 5 not really good at all), if he would have gotten in so easy? I for one thinks he belongs..But that is a question..
And turn that around and talk about Don Mattingly..he had 6 no question HOF years in a row No question! But they were his first 6, .. his next 5 were awful due to a back injury..caused by Cliff Johnson messing around in the Clubhouse Wrestleling!!!..I hear tell!
If he had his the other way, his last 5 yrs first, and went out with a back injury, AFTER the 6 monster years..I think he would be in!
Don't forget..there are supposed to be intangebles that go along with getting in..not just numbers. representing the game right, dominate at your position for 10 years to name 2...he did those things!!
I may be looking partly through pinstriped glasses, but I don't think i'm too far off base.
Your OBJECTIVE opinion, please.


You are preaching to the choir man. Donnie is my alltime favorite player without a doubt ( Well, Mickey is close, but I never saw him play )

I just dont see him getting in. His numbers decrease very year.

As for me, I am just happy he is were he belongs right now. In the dugout with the pinstripes on his back, and his #23 retired in Monument Park.

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 10:18 PM
I think the 500 HR benchmark will change. I do not think it will be a lock anymore as the steroid era comes into play.

As for the pitching the 300 wins is the golden ticket to the HOF. It is much harder to accomplish that. I still think every once in agreat while it will still be done. As Chuck said many pitchers who havent hit the golden 300 mark are in. I think Pedro will be a shoo-in he has 206 now. He will never reach that mark but he was dominate. Same thing with Curt Schilling. Kenny Rogers has over 200 but he will not get in when he is done. Mike Mussina has 239 If he wins 30 games in 2 years that will put him at 269. Will that be enough? He dominated maybe he will be the first to test that water of the new benchmark for the golden ticket. Will it be 275?

This is a good topic!

 

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  posted on 1/16/2007 at 10:31 PM
quote:
Mike Mussina has 239 If he wins 30 games in 2 years that will put him at 269. Will that be enough? He dominated maybe he will be the first to test that water of the new benchmark for the golden ticket. Will it be 275?


I like Moose, but he was never a "dominate" pitcher. I just don't see him getting in.

Personal feelings toward Pedro aside, I think he does get in tho.


I can see the standards changing though.
You have the "specialized pitching" middle relievers, closers, etc.. That cost starters wins.
Not to mention the 5 man rotation, so there are even less opportunities.
I can see the bar being lowered to maybe 250-275 to accommodate that..

Also, there are going to be ALOT of closers on the ballot in the nect 10 years most likely.. Mariano, Hoffman among others. I think it is only a matter of time before some start getting in.

As for HRs.. that really needs to change due to Roids..

Here is a good question..... What does MLB ( and the HOF) do if Barry* is PROVEN to take steroids?? I would HOPE that they would do the right thing and banish all of his records, but I don't see that happening..








Can yall tell I am ready for baseball season to start??

( Insert wiseass Otie, Mark,RobFilm, Gondy comment here )

[Edited on 1/17/2007 by WharfRat]

 

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  posted on 1/17/2007 at 12:01 AM
quote:
I think you also have to take into consideration a pitchers ERA as well.
Nolan Ryan could have even more wins then he did if he had played on better teams.

That being said, even if Glavine and Randy retired today I think they are HOF worthy regardless of the 300 win mark.

As for Jack Morris, I think he was VERY overrated.Yea, that game in 91 is prolly the best performance I have ever seen on the mound.

Sutton, Perry, and Phil Neikro should not be in, IMHO.. Just a product of longetivity.


You have to consider how dominating a player is during his era in addition to the basic stats. That's why Glavine and Johnson should certainly be in the hall. (Ask me sometime about the best half-year rental player the Astros ever had ).

Longevity (or lack thereof) can certainly be part of a legitimate argument for/against a player.

quote:
Also, there are going to be ALOT of closers on the ballot in the nect 10 years most likely.. Mariano, Hoffman among others. I think it is only a matter of time before some start getting in.


Both the Goose and Lee Smith should be in the hall already.

quote:
Can yall tell I am ready for baseball season to start??


29 more days ....

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/17/2007 at 07:29 AM
quote:
quote:
Mike Mussina has 239 If he wins 30 games in 2 years that will put him at 269. Will that be enough? He dominated maybe he will be the first to test that water of the new benchmark for the golden ticket. Will it be 275?


I like Moose, but he was never a "dominate" pitcher. I just don't see him getting in.




I should have read that when I posted. I meant I think he will test the waters for the new goldent ticket to get in. Pitchers who get to 300 are automatic. Since this is going to be few and far between...........I think he will make a good case for the 250 - 275 mark who are consistantly good or on the cusp of being great. He W-L record speaks for itself
W 239 L 134. For 15 years he has won double digits every year.

Look at his stats He quietly built up some impressive numbers. Copied from Wikipedia below:

He is fifth among all active pitchers in wins (239) and shutouts (23), sixth in complete games (57), seventh in strikeouts (2,572), eighth in innings (3,210.1), ninth in walks per 9 IP (2.02) and batters faced (13,118), and tenth in won-lost percentage (.641),

Through 2006, he is tied for fifth in the major leagues in shutouts (7), seventh in walks per 9 IP (1.83), ninth in wins (75), tied for tenth in games started (159), and thirteenth in strikeouts per 9 IP (7.91).


Near greatness

Aside from his several near-perfect outings, Mussina is known to be a great pitcher who has had several brushes with excellence.

* Never won 20 games in a season, but won 19 twice and 18 three times. Reliever Armando Benitez blew the save in Mussina's last start in 1996, which would have been win number 20.
* Never led the league in ERA, but has placed in the top 10 several times.
* Never won a Cy Young award, but has placed in the top five six times.
* Never won a World Series


No I am not a huge Mike Mussina fan I am just stating a case for him.

 

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  posted on 1/17/2007 at 07:30 AM
quote:


quote:
Can yall tell I am ready for baseball season to start??


29 more days ....





 

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  posted on 1/17/2007 at 10:03 AM
quote:
Both the Goose and Lee Smith should be in the hall already.



Goose should get in next year

Lee Smith I am not so sure. The votes for Goose have risen every year, Lee's have not.

 

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  posted on 1/17/2007 at 10:05 AM
quote:
W 239 L 134. For 15 years he has won double digits every year


Wow, I didnt realize his winning % was that good. I just dont see him wanting to pitch long enough to get close to 300. I think this is the last year of his contract with the Yanks, so we will see what he does after the season..

 

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  posted on 1/17/2007 at 12:07 PM
quote:


29 more days ....



Thats pitchers and catchers right?


Spring Training is one big cock tease to me.

 

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