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Author: Subject: which fillmore remaster is the best one ?

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 08:56 AM
Guys, which remastered edition of the fillmore concerts is the best one in your opinion ? I read somewhere about a german re-mix, any idea what that is ?

 
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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 05:27 PM
quote:
Guys, which remastered edition of the fillmore concerts is the best one in your opinion ? I read somewhere about a german re-mix, any idea what that is ?



The original is fine but the best deal is the 2000 release "At Fillmore East Deluxe". The "Fillmore Concerts" has the same tracks as the Deluxe but is ruined in the re-mix. Do not get this. Deluxe has the original mix with the add on songs, including One Way Out, Trouble No More and Mountain Jam.

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 05:32 PM
"The Fillmore Concerts" also omits the guy yelling out "Whipping Post" and Duane confirming it, "You guessed it", truly one of the legendary moments in live concert lore.

I still like parts of the FC, though. It's nice to have them all, however and make your own mind up.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 05:38 PM
quote:
"The Fillmore Concerts" also omits the guy yelling out "Whipping Post" and Duane confirming it, "You guessed it", truly one of the legendary moments in live concert lore.




quote:
The original is fine but the best deal is the 2000 release "At Fillmore East Deluxe". The "Fillmore Concerts" has the same tracks as the Deluxe but is ruined in the re-mix. Do not get this. Deluxe has the original mix with the add on songs, including One Way Out, Trouble No More and Mountain Jam.




ABBAFE the Fillmore Concerts has a different Hot 'Lanta than the original. I think the band is hotter on this version, but the soloing isn't as powerful.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 05:46 PM
There are several alternate versions on the FC, and IMOER is a hybrid-Tom Dowd explains in the liner notes how he spliced it from two versions to make the definitve one, in his opinion. I think he's qualified to make that statment. I think he may have done it with one other tune too-maybe YDLM.

At the time FC was better because it contained almost twice as much music as the original LAFE-on the original Thom Ducette's harp solo on Stormy Monday was edited out due to space constraints but was restored on the FC. It was also remixed and many people complained about that, but if you have both, you have more to choose from.

I would agree that now that they have given LAFE the deluxe treatment while honoring the original mix and running order that if you had to pick one, that would be the one to go with.

But there are a lot of cool photos that have only been released in the FC booklet-you can pick it up for around 10 bucks at used CD stores if you look around.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 06:30 PM
quote:
There are several alternate versions on the FC, and IMOER is a hybrid-Tom Dowd explains in the liner notes how he spliced it from two versions to make the definitve one, in his opinion. I think he's qualified to make that statment. I think he may have done it with one other tune too-maybe YDLM.

At the time FC was better because it contained almost twice as much music as the original LAFE-on the original Thom Ducette's harp solo on Stormy Monday was edited out due to space constraints but was restored on the FC. It was also remixed and many people complained about that, but if you have both, you have more to choose from.

I would agree that now that they have given LAFE the deluxe treatment while honoring the original mix and running order that if you had to pick one, that would be the one to go with.

But there are a lot of cool photos that have only been released in the FC booklet-you can pick it up for around 10 bucks at used CD stores if you look around.


Jeez, where are the pouncers? Assuming you are referring to Liz Reed, I posted this same thing a year or two ago and was rebuffed by those "in the know". I was informed that Dowd made up the quote or something like that and that Dowd himself denied it (the splicing) in a later interview at some point. Personally, I believe what I saw in the liner notes and will continue to until I hear the original tapes or a bootleg of the shows.

Maybe they (the ABB) should end this controversey and release these shows as a delayed Instant Live, unedited and untouched from the original master tapes. A guy can dream, right?

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 06:33 PM
each to their own... my ears prefer the remixed Fillmore Concerts big time. Everyone cites the lack of bass presence in the mix as their major crux, but to be honest on my stereo it still sounds punchy as hell, and easy to pick out every note by every instrument at every point. The audience calls are missed but it's a small price to pay for me. But hey, that's just my opinion and my preferences - everyone's ears are different.

Also FWIW, there's been a lot of discussion over the years (especially on the allman mailing list) but the general consensus is that the Tom Dowd reference to splicing the Liz Reed is either just plain wrong, or the original was spliced too and he forgot doing it. Certainly the solos are note for note identical between the original release and the Fillmore Concerts remix, which given Dickey and Duane's improvisational natures would be pretty unlikely unless the splice was already done.

That said, the YDLM was spliced and was also spliced on the original release - but the splice is a lot cleaner on the Fillmore Concerts version...

and that's about it!

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 06:34 PM
I agree, I think the whole thing is a tempest in teapot.

With all due respect to Tom Dowd, how he have been so misundertood? It was in direct quotes....

It does sound different, though-which leads to another discussion-if it WASN'T a splice job and is in fact a complete alternate version, where did it come from?

Where's Clay Pelland when you need him?

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 07:00 PM
quote:
I agree, I think the whole thing is a tempest in teapot.

With all due respect to Tom Dowd, how he have been so misundertood? It was in direct quotes....

It does sound different, though-which leads to another discussion-if it WASN'T a splice job and is in fact a complete alternate version, where did it come from?

Where's Clay Pelland when you need him?


It sounds different coz of the mix - the notes played are identical throughout on both versions, and I find it so hard to believe the band would play a literally identical take on two separate nights, that the only answer it seems to me is that Tom Dowd was wrong. Where the error came from in the first place is anyone's guess...

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 07:05 PM
PHEW!

Thanks, Jules for clearing that up! And I'm glad it was you who said this-I've always liked the mix of the FC too.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 07:32 PM
I only have FE and EAP on LP ( the FE is a pink Capricorn label which I've since heard is rare - God knows how it came to be down here in Australia-if only it could talk!)
I have 3 copies of EAP one US on Capricorn /one US Polygram and one from the UK. ) because I keep seeing them cheap in 2nd hand stores and want to give them a good home - ) Naturally all the musical content is the same on each. ( I think so, anyway ?)
I've been following this thread because on a previous similar thread I learned that one new edition (the Deluxe, I think ?) combines the FE concert with the live sides of EAP ( Mountain Jam etc. ) in the same order as played on the night and I made a mental note that that would be the one to get. Is that correct ? ( that the deluxe has the concert in its entirity ? ) And I read in that thread that the remastered sound was good too.

[Edited on 1/8/2006 by midnightvwdriver]

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 07:43 PM
Well...kind of. They didn't play One Way Out during the March run at the FE. The version included on EAP and the FC was from the final night at the Fillmore East, 6-27-71. I believe it is included on the LAFE Deluxe Version as well.

The sound is a matter of personal taste. Like Jules, I prefer the FC, but since I have to have everything, it's not an issue for me.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 08:49 PM
the low down is this...for the fillmore concerts i proposed the idea of gathering all the different tracks from all the different sources and compile an "ideal" set from the fillmore. the band recorded 4 sets over 2 nights and the final late set on the 13th was the longest, over 2 hours. most of the sets were 70-90 minutes and they played all the songs more than once, except for stormy monday, mt. jam and drunken hearted boy.

the original idea was to include the alternate versions of as many tracks as possible. the set list was created and tracks were picked. the remix was done by tom dowd at the request of bill levenson of polygram's catalog division, someone i worked with on a number of projects and the executive producer of this package. tom and i had several long discussions about the track selections and my thoughts and reasons for them, but the overriding notion was a package that offered the fans an "alternate" take on the fillmore weekend. tom said he got it and understood the premise.

the band was on tour during the summer when the remixes were done and they were sent to me on the road after tom finished them with bill levenson observing the mixing. the mixes were quite dramatic and truely brought out things i hadn't ever heard before in the tracks but tom had changed the course of things and basicly remixed what he had felt was the "best" track selection, which was obviously the tracks that he and the band had selected in 1971. the hot 'lanta and done somebody wrong are alternate versions. the you don't love me is spliced the same way it was on the original. the stormy monday had the harp solo left in just like the quad version from 1974. the problem with liz reed is this (and i know this to be true because i've spent months in the polygram tape vaults over the years and have handled and listened to all of these things), there is a tape in the vaults that is a "compilation reel", that is the selected versions of several songs and on it is a version of the liz reed from the 13th early set. this tape was included in the shipment of tape from the tape vault to the mixing studio where tom worked. this tape is not clearly marked as a "comp tape" but upon close investgation it proved to be just that back in 91-92. as i said, i had picked all these alt tracks in the winter of 91-92 and was on the road when tom did the mixing. tom did splice the front end of liz reed from one tape to the back end of liz reed from a second tape. unfortunately, it was two tapes of the same performance of liz reed, that of the 13th early show. in the process of remixing these tapes in 92 tom did hear things that he hadn't heard before, he says that exact thing in the liner notes.
when i got the mixes in kansas city on a day off on the road i listened to them all day and night, heart sick and elated, sick from the set list being trashed from my original idea and elated from the new sound of these old tracks.
after all that, it really all comes down to what any one person likes to hear. the original mix you grew up listening to or some thing different and pick up on something new.
the last fillmore package is pretty much what levenson wanted to put out originally anyhow, so he's happy.
i'd still like to someday put out all four sets from that weekend as a final statement. kind of like the dead just did with those 69 shows, although this would be 5-6 discs not 10.

hope this kind of clears things up
.
it was a very special thing, getting to work with tom dowd on these and other projects, he was a wonderful man and it was an honor to be around him and to have him call me a friend. we all were very lucky to have had him in our little world.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 08:57 PM
quote:
i'd still like to someday put out all four sets from that weekend as a final statement. kind of like the dead just did with those 69 shows, although this would be 5-6 discs not 10.


And every note I can get from the Fillmore series to hear...the better !
Thanks !

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 09:03 PM
Kirk, thanks for the info. Man, it is cool to hear it straight from the source-instead of "a reliable source"....and we're lucky to have YOU to set things straight.



[Edited on 1/8/2006 by brofan]

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 09:06 PM
quote:
i'd still like to someday put out all four sets from that weekend as a final statement. kind of like the dead just did with those 69 shows, although this would be 5-6 discs not 10.


drool, drool, slobber, slobber

Man, that would be the definative set!

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 09:31 PM
VERBAL , I'm still confused (big surprise). Slidejules wrote: "It sounds different coz of the mix - the notes played are identical throughout on both versions".

However, Verbal writes: " tom did splice the front end of liz reed from one tape to the back end of liz reed from a second tape. unfortunately, it was two tapes of the same performance of liz reed".

So my question is this:

The Liz Reed on The Fillmore Concerts is:

A) Note for note, exactly the way it was played on March 13
B) Note for note, exactly the same as LAFE
C) Note for note, exactly the same as LAFE and exactly the way it was played
D) Spliced from 2 different performances
E) Spliced from one performance (your two tapes of the same performance theory)
F) Other:__________________

Also, with all do respect Verbal, who are you and why should we take your word for it? (in the sense that you know so much about this issue) Just curious.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 09:40 PM
It was Kirk West...

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 09:51 PM
Having heard all the editions over the years I would probably have to say the "Deluxed Edition" is the way to go. Now of course, I wouldn't mind and would probably buy the complete four sets that the Allmans did that weekend. btw, I was fortunate enought to heard the "dress rehearsal" the weekend before in Fayetteville, NC. Unfortunately, it was the last time I got to see Duane Allman play. God, I would love to have a copy of that Fayetteville show as it was truely the best I ever seen the Allmans play but I don't think it was ever recorded. What made it sweet was that the show wasn't advertised very much and the crowd was somewhat small. Early on during the show, Duane told the crowd to "come on down front, so we can see you" and then later on after they had already played just about everything that appeared on the Fillmore sets, Duane says, "there ain't many of y'all, but y'all got a lot of heart" and with that the band when into Whipping Post followed by Mountain Jam. Truly my most memoral concert experience from the Allman Brothers Band. They went past "hittin the note" indeed they "took it to church", it was that spiritual. Not many bands can do that, and even the ABB couldn't do it that often, but that night they did. I seen lots of good nights with the ABB, but never one could touch this one, not even the Fillmore concerts.



[Edited on 1/8/2006 by cleaneduphippy]

 
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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 10:29 PM
Wow, a release of everything from those shows would blow my mind....bring it ON! It would be a celebrated release...I can't believe it's not on the horizon already.


I have many different versions of this release, including the Deluxe and FC...they're both great. I love the MFSL gold version as well as the DTS version. The original release...non-remastered is also great.

The old WG 2cd release, done like the MFSL, is also a high quality mix of the show.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 10:40 PM
I believe that they did play One Way Out during the March run, but what is on the FC/EAP is of course from the June Fillmore show.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 10:44 PM
Also, thanks for stopping in and providing your insight, Kirk! It is greatly appreciated!

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 10:51 PM
What's the WG release?

Hey Randall! Gonna make the Beacon this year?

 

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 11:35 PM
quote:
There are several alternate versions on the FC, and IMOER is a hybrid-Tom Dowd explains in the liner notes how he spliced it from two versions to make the definitve one, in his opinion. I think he's qualified to make that statment. I think he may have done it with one other tune too-maybe YDLM.

At the time FC was better because it contained almost twice as much music as the original LAFE-on the original Thom Ducette's harp solo on Stormy Monday was edited out due to space constraints but was restored on the FC. It was also remixed and many people complained about that, but if you have both, you have more to choose from.

I would agree that now that they have given LAFE the deluxe treatment while honoring the original mix and running order that if you had to pick one, that would be the one to go with.

But there are a lot of cool photos that have only been released in the FC booklet-you can pick it up for around 10 bucks at used CD stores if you look around.


Actually in the Deluxe, the running order is not the same as int he original album but in the original order played in the concert. (or at least the logical order since I think it was taken from two shows) Reviews of the FC say that Duane's guitar was practically removed from the mix.

Doug

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  posted on 1/7/2006 at 11:38 PM
quote:
I only have FE and EAP on LP ( the FE is a pink Capricorn label which I've since heard is rare - God knows how it came to be down here in Australia-if only it could talk!)
I have 3 copies of EAP one US on Capricorn /one US Polygram and one from the UK. ) because I keep seeing them cheap in 2nd hand stores and want to give them a good home - ) Naturally all the musical content is the same on each. ( I think so, anyway ?)
I've been following this thread because on a previous similar thread I learned that one new edition (the Deluxe, I think ?) combines the FE concert with the live sides of EAP ( Mountain Jam etc. ) in the same order as played on the night and I made a mental note that that would be the one to get. Is that correct ? ( that the deluxe has the concert in its entirity ? ) And I read in that thread that the remastered sound was good too.

[Edited on 1/8/2006 by midnightvwdriver]


You are correct. The deluxe edition has all the live music from EAP as well as a live Midnight Rider and Elvin Bishop singing Drunken Hearted Boy which actually closed the show at 6:00 AM!!! It also has all the original material of course with the original mix and has the virtue of having the original album cover/back. I bought this and I would recommend it.

Doug

 

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