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Author: Subject: What Was The Problem WIth Dan?

Zen Peach





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  posted on 11/19/2005 at 11:38 PM
I am curious as to what the problem with Dan Toler was in the ABB so that he was not invited to return in 1989 when the band re-formed. Since he is a terrific guitar player who continued to do good work with both Gregg and Dickey what was the trouble? Is it the fact that he was not a slide player thereby forcing Dickey to play the Duane slide parts? Was he not a dynamic enoughg improviser? I have never heard him play live so I am genuinely curious. I think his playing on "I'm No Angel" is very elegant and understated but that might not have been right for the ABB. In any event, I think most agree that Warren Hayne's slide ability freed Dickey to do what he does best when the band reformed.

Doug

 

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  posted on 11/20/2005 at 04:34 AM


I think Dan got a rough deal - but dem's de breaks i spose - i always loved his playing - and i didn't think it was fair for Scott freeman to say in his book :- "Dan Toler played in a style that was largeley a poor man's imitation of Dickey Betts" - And Freeman claims to be a player himself! watch Toler on the Cannery video from 88 (greg band) - and he's smokin - such control, superb tone and, not one Dickey lick in evidence, i learnt a lot from this video, i've worn it out studying it . FREEMAN OUTSIDE!!!!! :-D

I hate to say it - but give me Toler over Betts any-day.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/20/2005 at 10:02 AM
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I think Dan got a rough deal - but dem's de breaks i spose - i always loved his playing - and i didn't think it was fair for Scott freeman to say in his book :- "Dan Toler played in a style that was largeley a poor man's imitation of Dickey Betts" - And Freeman claims to be a player himself! watch Toler on the Cannery video from 88 (greg band) - and he's smokin - such control, superb tone and, not one Dickey lick in evidence, i learnt a lot from this video, i've worn it out studying it . FREEMAN OUTSIDE!!!!! :-D

I hate to say it - but give me Toler over Betts any-day.


Well you compare him to Betts so he may not be a por man's Betts but you agree he plays a similar style? At least to the extnet of not being a slide player? Obviously at that point they were not going to expellDickey Betts so if the sound was hurt, I guess Dan had to go in favor of a real slide player like Warren Haynes. Is this right?

Doug

 

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  posted on 11/20/2005 at 07:10 PM


True - i didn't consider that, hmmmmmmmmm so did Toler NEVER play slide > gonna go tape trawling now .........

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  posted on 11/20/2005 at 07:14 PM
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(but you agree he plays a similar style?) - in the way that Peter Green and Allman would compare. " different bags.....same color.

 

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  posted on 11/21/2005 at 12:57 PM
If you listen to Enlightened Rogues, Dan sounds a lot like Dickey. He may not have by the time the 89 reunion came around, but he never really lit a fire under Dickey when he was in the fold. Even the last couple years in Great Southern, Dan proved that he isn't a very good compliment to Dickey - lay off the whammy bar, pal.

Besides Dickey and Warren were already playing together in the Dickey Betts Band so it was probably Dickey's call. And it was a damned good one.

 

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  posted on 11/21/2005 at 02:42 PM


i hate whammy bars.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/21/2005 at 11:50 PM
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If you listen to Enlightened Rogues, Dan sounds a lot like Dickey. He may not have by the time the 89 reunion came around, but he never really lit a fire under Dickey when he was in the fold. Even the last couple years in Great Southern, Dan proved that he isn't a very good compliment to Dickey - lay off the whammy bar, pal.

Besides Dickey and Warren were already playing together in the Dickey Betts Band so it was probably Dickey's call. And it was a damned good one.


For what it's worth: Midnight Riders says that Chuck Leavell, who was considering returning, said he would do so only if the Toler brothers did not return.

Doug

 

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  posted on 12/2/2005 at 05:12 PM
Dan did sound an awful lot like Dickey back then. They both played a Les Paul at the time...Dan did not play any slide at all and I'm sure that was a factor...Plus the fact Warren had just toured with The Dickey Betts Band and the chemistry was excellent obviously.

All I know is, it sure worked out for the best. WE got Warren in The ABB in 1989 and it was arguably the best post-Duane move they ever made. Don't ask me what the 2nd best post-Duane move was...thats a whole other can of worms.

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/5/2005 at 02:35 PM
quote:


I think Dan got a rough deal - but dem's de breaks i spose - i always loved his playing - and i didn't think it was fair for Scott freeman to say in his book :- "Dan Toler played in a style that was largeley a poor man's imitation of Dickey Betts" - And Freeman claims to be a player himself! watch Toler on the Cannery video from 88 (greg band) - and he's smokin - such control, superb tone and, not one Dickey lick in evidence, i learnt a lot from this video, i've worn it out studying it . FREEMAN OUTSIDE!!!!! :-D

I hate to say it - but give me Toler over Betts any-day.


but I do love Dan's playing too.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/5/2005 at 02:36 PM
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i hate whammy bars.


What about wa-wa pedals?

 

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  posted on 12/13/2005 at 07:14 AM
i think dan gets blamed for that not so wonderful era ,but to my ears he saved 'em . he was kickin' dickie's butt nightly if you saw this lineup you know what i mean, much the same on the hof dvd butstep away from the whammy bar
 

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  posted on 12/23/2005 at 06:54 PM
quote:

For what it's worth: Midnight Riders says that Chuck Leavell, who was considering returning, said he would do so only if the Toler brothers did not return.




Yeah, I think I read that & have heard that before. Would be interested if Chuck really stated that. If the answer is "yes"...well I can only say that Dan is a much much better player than Keith Richards who Chuck plays with these days. However, in all fairness, Chuck's role is as a support player in the Stones. He just works his magic while Keith & Mick play front guys.

 

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  posted on 1/19/2006 at 11:32 PM
quote:
quote:

For what it's worth: Midnight Riders says that Chuck Leavell, who was considering returning, said he would do so only if the Toler brothers did not return.




Yeah, I think I read that & have heard that before. Would be interested if Chuck really stated that. If the answer is "yes"...well I can only say that Dan is a much much better player than Keith Richards who Chuck plays with these days. However, in all fairness, Chuck's role is as a support player in the Stones. He just works his magic while Keith & Mick play front guys.


In its context, the passage indicates that Chuck wanted the original band, not the Toler Brothers. At the very least this certainly meant he wanted Jaimoe back in and perhaps Dan would not have returned in that case. But there is no indication that Chuck's problem was with Dan specifically as a player and, indeed, both Gregg and Dickey continued to play with him. I think the real problem and one that Chuck noticed is that the Allman's needed a firey slide player who would challenge Dickey. Warren fit the bill in 1989 and of course was so much more than a guitar player for that band.

Doug

 

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  posted on 1/21/2006 at 02:54 AM
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i hate whammy bars.


What about wa-wa pedals?


I love wah-wahs now, they are allowed

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/21/2006 at 05:55 AM
Dickey...whammy bar attached to a goldtop, opened up for the GAB in Overland Park, Kansas the year of the Giants/Broncos Superbowl, Superbowl night in the Glenwood Manor Hotel Ballroom. GA had not released I'm No Angel Yet. Dickey's band played ' Further On Down The Road." Whammy bar being used by Dickey in this blues shuffle and it seemed odd.
Dickey, same show, wha wha pedal malfunction. Poor pedal. It won't malfunction again.
I'm on front row, its hot in this place, I tell Dan who was playing in GAB, he gets ice cold can of Coke for me during encore break. Harmonica player gives me one of Dan's picks, Fender medium, tortise shell pattern. Kind gesture, didn't even ask for one . Thank you gentelmen. Only pick I had for a long time because I quit using them for about 5 or 6 years. Dan's playing was outstanding.
Giant jam at the end GAB and DBB...crowd goes friggin bonkers.
Some guy right by me kept yelling "Pegasus" in my left ear. My ears hurt already from standing head level front row direct line of fire to Dickey's Marshall.

 

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  posted on 1/21/2006 at 06:01 AM
Cool photo scotiadave.

 

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  posted on 1/27/2006 at 06:29 AM


Chars

 

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  posted on 3/3/2006 at 09:19 AM
quote:


i hate whammy bars.


I thought Jimi Hendrix did some fair to middlin things with the whammy.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/29/2006 at 11:16 PM
quote:
If you listen to Enlightened Rogues, Dan sounds a lot like Dickey. He may not have by the time the 89 reunion came around, but he never really lit a fire under Dickey when he was in the fold. Even the last couple years in Great Southern, Dan proved that he isn't a very good compliment to Dickey - lay off the whammy bar, pal.


I firmly disagree.

Dan ripped it up in Great Southern the last few years.

And was a much better fit than Mark May.

The reason he's not in great southern anymore is that he would blow Mr. Betts off the stage
night after night.

IMHO

Peace
John

 

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  posted on 3/30/2006 at 05:03 AM


Yup !! :-D

 

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  posted on 3/31/2006 at 11:01 AM
I thought Dickey & Dan were a lot more simpatico in the new-millennium Great Southern than in the late 70s-early 80s -- they did sound too much alike back then IMO. They always smoked & were an awesome tandem, but the change in tone from Gibson to Fender raised the bar even more IMO from 2001-05. What they did was as great as what Warren & Derek do, IN TERMS OF THEIR SOUND, LISTENING TO EACH OTHER & PLAYING AS A BAND -- not trying to blow the other off the stage.

 

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  posted on 4/12/2006 at 09:15 PM
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IN TERMS OF THEIR SOUND, LISTENING TO EACH OTHER & PLAYING AS A BAND -- not trying to blow the other off the stage.


Not saying that was the intent

Just the outcome.

Dan had his A game a lot more than Dickey.

IMO

 

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  posted on 5/26/2006 at 05:03 PM
I've seen Great Southern a few times.I've met Dicky and Dan.Very gracious men.I feel that Dan is a hard working guitarist.The man puts his heart and soul out there every night(saw them two nights in a row in upstate New York).He is a great guitarist.Comparing him to Dicky is a little unfair.I feel you have to compare them at their "best".If your doing that then Dicky blows most guitarists away including Dan.Having said that...Dan blows a LOT of guitarists away at his best.Warren is a completely different animal.Different than Duane...different than Derek and in fact different than most slide players in ...well....history.He kicks the guitars ass in a way.As far as whammy....one name comes to mind...David Gilmore..nuff said....and I love the Waa Waa...Clapton..and Frampton did it justice.Well thanks for listening.

 

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  posted on 7/15/2006 at 04:29 PM
quote:
quote:
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quote:
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For what it's worth: Midnight Riders says that Chuck Leavell, who was considering returning, said he would do so only if the Toler brothers did not return.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



Yeah, I think I read that & have heard that before. Would be interested if Chuck really stated that. If the answer is "yes"...well I can only say that Dan is a much much better player than Keith Richards who Chuck plays with these days. However, in all fairness, Chuck's role is as a support player in the Stones. He just works his magic while Keith & Mick play front guys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



In its context, the passage indicates that Chuck wanted the original band, not the Toler Brothers. At the very least this certainly meant he wanted Jaimoe back in and perhaps Dan would not have returned in that case. But there is no indication that Chuck's problem was with Dan specifically as a player and, indeed, both Gregg and Dickey continued to play with him. I think the real problem and one that Chuck noticed is that the Allman's needed a firey slide player who would challenge Dickey. Warren fit the bill in 1989 and of course was so much more than a guitar player for that band.

Doug


My recollection of the Midnight Riders book was that Chuck would return "only" if the band was the way the Brothers And Sisters era was i.e. one guitarist-Dickey and essentially one keyboardist-Chuck as the chief melodic improvisors and ....Chuck probably requested a bigger stake in the financial pie. And the ABB financial pie in 89 was just about slim and none and slim was in the process of leaving town. Chuck was riding high with Clapton and just beginning his association with the Stones which were both probably much more lucrative than a side man gig with the ABB. Really a no-brainer on Chuck's part.

As for the ABB choosing between the Toler Brothers and the Haynes/Woody combination, in all likelyhood financial reasons were probsably the primary motivating factor as well. Both Toler Bro's having been ABB member previously as well as GAB members since the ABB folded, probably were trying to negociate for a bigger slice of the pie which would only seem reasonable and legitiment especially in DDT's case, having been Gregg's band member and songwriting foil since the break up. Warren and Allen were essentially hired guns at a price well below the asking price of Chuck and Dan. Secondarily factoring into the band's decision was maybe Dan's insistance that his brother be included in a package deal? Also the obvious rapport established between Dickey and Warren from working on the Dickey Betts Band album may have been something Dickey wanted to persue more than returning a partnership with Dan. Let's see Warren can sing, write, pick and play slide at a price less than what Dan may be asking ........... Hmmmm?

Essentially it's just a business decision like not playing Charlotte this year.

 

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