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Author: Subject: The Wrestling Thread

True Peach



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  posted on 7/17/2006 at 11:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JYEEaoZmE8&search=armando%20alejandro%2 0estrada

Hmm. Embedding wouldn't work. I wonder what's up with that?


[Edited on 7/17/2006 by TopDroog]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/18/2006 at 01:41 PM
Cena faced that monster he manages last night!

 

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  posted on 7/18/2006 at 02:27 PM
Big Show and Ric Flair on ECW last Tues. Ended with thumb tacks! ECF'nW

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LUPqa4o_Oz8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LUPqa4o_Oz8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 7/18/2006 at 03:16 PM
quote:
Cena faced that monster he manages last night!


Doing pretty well, too, until Edge got involved.

The rated "R" Superstar

G - General Audiences
PG - Parental Guidance Suggested
PG-13 - Parental Guidance required for patrons 13 and under
R - Ridiculous, Redundant, and as Scooby Doo would say, Rupid.
NC-17 - Lita on most nights
X - Lita on the other nights

 

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  posted on 7/18/2006 at 10:44 PM
quote:

R - Ridiculous, Redundant, and as Scooby Doo would say, Rupid.
NC-17 - Lita on most nights
X - Lita on the other nights


Is the X for when Lita's boobs are blossoming?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/2/2006 at 12:00 PM
EC F'n W

Last night, Extreme Double Tag Match, Tommy Dreamer w/ Sandman vs. Test and ?

Dreamer put through plywood by Paul Heymans guards. Plywood had barbed wire. Went thru twice!!!

http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/shows/ecwonscifi/photos/

 

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  posted on 8/2/2006 at 12:16 PM
Video of the match, the first box

http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/shows/ecwonscifi/videos/

 

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  posted on 8/30/2006 at 11:01 AM
Kurt Angle released from contract

Kurt...
“My body is so beat up and run down, I can’t even think straight,” Kurt Angle tells WWE.com in an exclusive interview Saturday concerning his early release from his contract with World Wrestling Entertainment. Angle and WWE officials mutually agreed to end Angle’s relationship with the company on Friday.

Angle says nearly 30 years of non-stop wrestling (between amateur wrestling, the Olympics and his WWE career) has taken a major toll on his body, his mind and his family. “I need my body to reheal and rehab, I have done this for too long without a break. I haven’t been able to really enjoy my life. I haven’t seen my family, I’ve had problems with medication - I’m just fried physically and mentally.”

Angle’s business manager David Hawk claims, “Kurt’s in a tremendous amount of pain, he’s used prescription medication to deal with it. Kurt has come to the conclusion that unless he can get in the ring without the use of pain medication then he doesn’t need to be in there. He realizes he was just endangering himself and his opponents.”

The last straw for Angle seems to have occurred on August 13th, 2006, at an ECW live event in White Plains, New York. Angle was wrestling Rob Van Dam in a match where both competitors were fueled by the passionate ECW fans. “The crowd was wild,” Angle says. “Early on in the match, I pulled my groin, but I kept going, feeding off the crowd. Then I pulled my abdominal muscle off the pelvic bone, but I kept going as the crowd grew more wild. Finally, I blew out my hamstring, but we finished the match. The crowd stood and applauded - a standing ovation and that meant so much to me.”

Ironically that would be Angle’s last match.

 

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  posted on 10/16/2006 at 03:39 PM
Tonight on RAW, John Cena lays out Kevin Federline with an F-U.

No, I'm not kidding.

 

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  posted on 10/16/2006 at 09:05 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing Federline getting laid out . . .

Regarding Angle, my 12-year-old told me he's going to TNA. Any truth to that?

 

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  posted on 10/17/2006 at 07:52 AM
Angle is already there. He and his agent pulled a major swerve just prior to signing with TNA, stating that he was done with pro wrestling and he did meet with Dana White, the president of UFC. There is still money to be made in an Angle vs. Daniel Puder MMA match (Puder was the Tough Enough contestant that got Angle into a kimura on Smackdown and embarrassed many - it was a golden storyline chance that the WWE blew). Of course, at his age and with his injuries, Angle would likely get destroyed in MMA, but leverage is leverage when it comes to negotiating. The WWE completely released Angle, no 90-day non-compete, totally cut all ties. TNA tapes a month's worth of Impact!, their weekly show on Spike (Thursdays). I do believe this week is Angle's debut (there was a taped interview segment last week)where there is a confrontation between Angle and Samoa Joe, a match made in heaven.

TNA still needs to decide just what kind of company they are, though. They seem to believe that you have to backwards to go forwards, as reflected by the recent signing of Lex Luger (he's done), Buff Bagwell (huh?) and Kevin Nash has returned to complete the total burial of the X Division. Not to mention that Sting's contract is coming up due and they want to keep him around, and they still shove Jeff Jarrett down everyone's throats.

At the same time, they have some of the best talent in the world that seems to always take a back seat to the people mentioned above. There's LAX, the best heel stable going (Konnan, Homicide and Hernandez), AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Chris Sabin, etc. They've totally misused Samoa Joe, it's a very frustrating company to watch because they have so much potential, yet they give folks things like Christian vs. Jeff Jarrett. We need a true alternative, not WWE Lite.

 

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  posted on 11/29/2006 at 11:26 AM
BHawk, as you seem to know a lot of inside/industry stuff, let me ask you a question.

How much does Farooq make for saying "Damn!" once a week?



In general, what kinds of salaries do these guys pull down?

Top guys, like Cena and Triple H, middle guys, like, I don't know . . . Haas and Visera . . . and the bottom feeders, like Cade and Murdoch (this is all my opinion of course).

How about the Divas?

 

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  posted on 11/29/2006 at 02:11 PM
quote:
BHawk, as you seem to know a lot of inside/industry stuff, let me ask you a question.

How much does Farooq make for saying "Damn!" once a week?



In general, what kinds of salaries do these guys pull down?

Top guys, like Cena and Triple H, middle guys, like, I don't know . . . Haas and Visera . . . and the bottom feeders, like Cade and Murdoch (this is all my opinion of course).

How about the Divas?




OK, we'll start at the top. Vince McMahon is the Chairman of World Wrestling Entertainment and is the majority shareholder. Nearly all of his net worth is tied to the stock performance. WWE has done huge international business this past year that has made Vince a billionaire again. He makes $1.00 a year as a performer. Linda McMahon, Shane McMahon and Stephanie McMahon-Levesque all hold top positions, how much they make is not known.

WWE calls its wrestlers "independent contractors." Among other things, it's a nifty way to get out of reporting itemized salaries on their balance sheet. If you are a young wrestler starting out, you get signed to a developmental contract, which is a base salary to work in either of the two developmental territories, Ohio Valley Wrestling (Louisville) and Deep South (Atlanta). If you are "called up," your developmental contract will be redone into a performance contract. Wrestling is an interesting business in that how much money you make is tied directly to how popular you are. Once you are at the top, there are several categories that feed you money:

Base Salary - Most of the "top guys" (HHH, HBK, Cena, Taker, Benoit, etc.) have a substantial base salary, from $1 to $2 million per year. Once you start going down the card, the money drops off dramatically. Mid card guys can make in the low six figures, and your low card "jobbers" make no more than $30K per year. WWE talent is required to pay their own travel and lodging costs, which at 250 dates a year including house shows can eat up alot of one's base. Shawn Michaels was going to go to the "Undertaker schedule" (no house shows, occasional TV, major PPVs only) after last year's Mania. Vince offered him $2 million per for 5 years to stay. He stayed. Smart man, especially with the amount of merchandise DX is selling. Divas make probably in the $75k-$100k range, depending on their status. (Torrie Wilson makes more than Kelly Kelly, for instance.) The WWE claims a large amount of intellectual property when you sign with them - they can't own your real name, but they can own everything else. For instance, Ron Simmons belongs to Ron Simmons, but "Farooq" is owned by the WWE. The WWE also owns complete gimmicks and certain moves. Take Matt Hardy for instance. One of his big moves is the Twist of Fate. They can't own the name "swinging inverted DDT," but they do own the name "Twist of Fate." This is why in TNA they can't refer to the Angle Slam as the Angle Slam, they have to call it the Olympic Slam, as WWE owns the "Angle Slam" name. One interesting thing in this same area is with Ricky Steamboat, who currently works for the WWE as a road agent. He lost the rights to "Ricky 'The Dragon' Steamboat" in his divorce, his wife owns the name. If they wanted him to appear in a creative role on TV, he could only use his real name, Richard Blood.

Merchandise - Depending on the terms of the contract, performers get a cut of their merchandise based on units sold. The more you sell, the more you make. Guys like Steve Austin and The Rock blew it out when it came to merchandise, and Cena is raking it in on his stuff. Merchandise royalties are perpetual, so if one were to go to a WWE event or go to the website and buy an "Austin 3:16" shirt, Stone Cold still gets a cut. this also applies to DVD sales, which is WWEs largest moneymaker by far. (The WWE has a core fanbase of about 4 million people...and about 2 million of them buy every DVD they put out.)

Payoffs - Industry term for event pay. From the smallest indie show at the local armory in front of 50 people, all the way up to Mania at MSG, this is always been the core of wrestler pay. Pay-per-view event payoffs are set by that night's gate, then broken down in a tiered structure (if you're in the main event or not). So, for a guy like HHH, his contract could call for 2% of the gate plus another 2% for being in the main event (this is where being married to Stephanie is a major perk). A percentage of PPV buys is rare, and included in individual performer contracts.

Guys like Ron Simmons, Sgt. Slughter, Iron Sheik, etc. are signed to the basic "Legends contract" - you get a one time $10,000 signing bonus and a percentage of future merchandise sales. He is also a "road agent," (probably around $45 - $60k a year) former wrestlers who work with talent, grade matches, help with cues and "go home" signals (to "go home" means go to the finish). On WWE TV, the referees usually give the signal as they wear earpieces and get cues from backstage.

As recently as the early 70's, back in the territorial days of wrestling, the payoff was the only money you made. Working the bottom of the card in those days might have only netted you as little as $10, and everyone was always offered a bonus for bladejobs (bleeding). Ric Flair made a ton of money in the 80's, but he had to work main events 300 nights a year to get it, travelling all over the world. In the territorial days,the top heel ("bad guy") main event level guys world work six-month "programs" against the top face ("good guy") where the top heel would work his way up the card by destroying opposition, then work main events against the top face for as much money as they could get out of it. Once the well had run dry, the top heel would always leave town by dropping the last match to the top face. This was the usual basis for the popularity of the "loser leaves town" match.

As far as the indie level these days, it's pretty straightforward. If you are promoting a local federation and you want to bring in someone like an AJ Styles or a Christopher Daniels, top level indie guys usually command between $1000 and $2000 for the match payoff, plus you have to foot the bill for their airfare and one night's lodging.

No one in wrestling, not now, before or ever, has a better deal than Hulk Hogan. He wrestles only when he wants to, he has complete and total creative control over his finishes (contractually, not even Vince has any control over Hogan match finishes) and on PPVs, no one on the card can make a bigger payoff than he. Mick Foley also has creative control, but has a much better repuation when it comes to finishes as far as doing whats' best for business. For instance, that last PPV where Foley wrestled Flair, there was a huge argument backstage between the two because both of them wanted to lose. Apparently the younger guys backstage were blown away by the scene.

 

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  posted on 11/29/2006 at 03:08 PM
Hmm. Cool stuff.

Are guys like Armando and Umaga part of a package, or is each on his own contract?

What was that goofy stuff I saw on TNA last week . . . those two dudes (I think Billy Gunn was one of them) were trying to sneak into WWE headquarters or something like that.

Any idea what the top TNA guys earn?

 

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  posted on 11/30/2006 at 01:53 PM
quote:
Are guys like Armando and Umaga part of a package, or is each on his own contract?


Each his own. Armando (Hazem Ali - a Chicagoan with Palestinian decent) started in OVW with a different character name, Osama Alejandro Rodriguez. His promos were so hilarious that he literally talked his way to the big leagues. Umaga is a new gimmick, Eddie Fatu used to wrestle in WWE as Jamal and in TNA as Ekmo. This is what the WWE would have done with Samoa Joe if they could have gotten him.

quote:
What was that goofy stuff I saw on TNA last week . . . those two dudes (I think Billy Gunn was one of them) were trying to sneak into WWE headquarters or something like that.



Yup. Kip James (Billy Gunn, but WWE owns that name) and BG James, the "Voodoo Kin Mafia," a play on words on Vince McMahon's initials. VKM is how they refer to WWE since they can't say "WWE" on their broadcasts. It has been as stupid as it sounds.

quote:
Any idea what the top TNA guys earn?


Sting makes way too much money, for one, LOL. They aren't making WWE money, but, they are doing just fine. TNA does not have all of its wrestlers under contract, just the big ones. Everyone is paid a flat rate plus more money prorated to how much time they are on camera. Panda Energy owns TNa, they gave Sting a ton of cash and getting Kurt Angle couldn't have been cheap. TNA only works once a month (they tape a month's worth of TV shows in one day), or twice a month if there is a pay-per-view. They have had very few house shows (house shows are tremendous money losers if you don't sell enough tickets), so their schedule is much easier on the body. For the guys they do have under contract, they can all still do indie shows but the appearances must be booked through the TNA office.

 

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  posted on 11/30/2006 at 11:34 PM
quote:
This is what the WWE would have done with Samoa Joe if they could have gotten him.


Seems to me Samoa Joe has a little too much athleticism and not quite enough size, I don't think it would have worked as well.

I sure which they'd let Armando talk more . . . even though they were getting quite redundant, they were still the funniest thing RAW had going for a couple of months. You were at the match where the two of them debuted, right? The RAW after the last Wrestlemania? I was there, too.

quote:
For the guys they do have under contract, they can all still do indie shows but the appearances must be booked through the TNA office.


Yeah . . . I haven't been to a Ring of Honor match yet, but I'll probably check it out soon. They do shows in Chicago Ridge, which is just a couple of miles from my mom's. I see that there's a two-night gig there next weekend, and both Christopher Daniels and Samoa Joe will be there. If I see a date with both the two of them and A.J. Styles, we'll probably check it out. My son really digs A.J. Me, I dig "The Truth." I like Chris Sabin quite a bit, too.

Peace.


 

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  posted on 12/1/2006 at 09:23 AM
quote:
Seems to me Samoa Joe has a little too much athleticism and not quite enough size, I don't think it would have worked as well.



Totally agree. Joe is something special, gonna be one of the true legends before he's done.

quote:
You were at the match where the two of them debuted, right? The RAW after the last Wrestlemania? I was there, too.



Whew! What a weekend that was! We stayed at the Rosemont Residence Inn there behind the Target next to Allstate. I'm glad they put it on DVD, cause memories can be foggy...

quote:
Yeah . . . I haven't been to a Ring of Honor match yet, but I'll probably check it out soon. They do shows in Chicago Ridge, which is just a couple of miles from my mom's. I see that there's a two-night gig there next weekend, and both Christopher Daniels and Samoa Joe will be there. If I see a date with both the two of them and A.J. Styles, we'll probably check it out. My son really digs A.J. Me, I dig "The Truth." I like Chris Sabin quite a bit, too.



If I was in Chicago next Friday, I would be at the Ring of Honor show. Bryan Danielson is defending the ROH World title against Samoa Joe in a steel cage and this has Match Of The Year written all over it. Daniels will be there but Styles is not on that weekend's shows. I highly, highly, highly recommend going to see an ROH show. They run about four hours, and if you love straightforward, technical, actual professional wrestling with no goofy storylines or stupid gimmicks and an evening of entertainment that actually does not insult your intelligence, then you must see ROH. Their hardcore fans are a bit of a trip, too. The Frontier Fieldhouse is a really nice place for shows, plenty of room, great sightlines, the Park District concessions are top notch. One thing though, the parking BLOWS. At $15, you get more than your money's worth.

Friday card: http://www.rohwrestling.com/News/Article.aspx?id=827

Saturday card: http://www.rohwrestling.com/News/Article.aspx?id=949


You and your son have good wrestling eyes! I love Styles too, the guy does some amazing flying moves, plus you can totally tell he was trained by Shawn Michaels because he is absolutely awesome at selling ("pretending" to be hurt - you get the gist). If you can sell well, then you make the other guy look good. A big part of what separates the average wrestler from the best wrestlers is the best ones can get a good match out of anybody. I love Ron Killings. Dude just looks like a bada$$. Chris Sabin has enormous potential. He's one of the few guys you look at and right away say "That guy's got "it".

 

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  posted on 12/1/2006 at 09:28 AM
quote:
What was that goofy stuff I saw on TNA last week . . . those two dudes (I think Billy Gunn was one of them) were trying to sneak into WWE headquarters or something like that.



Yup. That was Billy Gunn and the ex-"road dawg" Jessie James


 

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  posted on 12/19/2006 at 01:02 PM
Okay Bhawk....my son and I watched Raw last night.

What the heck was the deal with the main event ?? Cena and DX vs. Umaga and "those other two"....to say we were perplexed is an understatement.

Now, with Cena and Umaga taking their battle elsewhere, the purpose I'm guessing is to get them out of the ring so "those other two" can beat up on DX. What irks my son and myself is, two things:

1. WWE decides to have these 'out of the ring' battles and we never see them going anywhere...the wrestlers just disappear. I told my son, they're probably in the dressing room now having a drink or showering.

2. The beat up on DX with the chairs....sorry folks, it looked pretty "real" as "real" as wrasslin' can get

Your thoughts....and I know it's entertainment but it's our entertainment.

Later, Karen

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 12/19/2006 at 01:38 PM
quote:
sorry folks, it looked pretty "real" as "real" as wrasslin' can get


From Sunday night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0JA4XBm9w8

http://www.wwe.com/shows/armageddon/exclusives/38575801

 

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  posted on 12/19/2006 at 03:56 PM
quote:
What the heck was the deal with the main event ?? Cena and DX vs. Umaga and "those other two"....to say we were perplexed is an understatement.


WWE TV exists for one reason - to sell buys for the next PPV. John Cena is going to get you some buys, but there is always going to be a marketing focus. DX vs. Edge & Orton has alot more mileage as far as marketability. Besides, HHH (Mr. Stephanie) always seems to get his way into the main event somehow...

They were just selling the next Raw PPV, New Year's Revolution, at Kemper Arena in KC. Yes, Bhawk will be there!

quote:
Now, with Cena and Umaga taking their battle elsewhere, the purpose I'm guessing is to get them out of the ring so "those other two" can beat up on DX. What irks my son and myself is, two things:

1. WWE decides to have these 'out of the ring' battles and we never see them going anywhere...the wrestlers just disappear. I told my son, they're probably in the dressing room now having a drink or showering.



Yup, having them "fight off" removes them from the focus of the show, which was the DX beatdown. Simple wrestling psychology they use again and again and again - the faces get beat down and everyone wants to see the heels get their as$es kicked, but to see that you've got to pay for it . And you are right, as soon as they are backstage again, they ask each other if they are OK, laugh, watch the rest of the show, shower and head to the airport or rental car to drive to the next town.

quote:
2. The beat up on DX with the chairs....sorry folks, it looked pretty "real" as "real" as wrasslin' can get


Certainly was a violent three hours, wasn't it? HHH on the announcer's table was a victim of the "one-man conchairto." The first chair shot on HHH kinda made me laugh, because Orton hit HHH in the shoulder and HHH bladed anyway. (More on blading in a second) As far as the conchairtos go, the key is to get that sick metal-on-metal sound. If you notice, the force of the blow is not actually the head, but to the exposed part of the chair next to the head. You can get a pretty sick sound and barely touch the guy's head at all. The position of the head and the blood flowing makes for an outstanding visual.

However, when you talk about chairs, you have to mention the difference between "protected" and "unprotected" chair shots. Protected chair shots are when the guy brings his guard up and the sound comes from the chair hitting the forearm. The chairs are a type of metal folding chair that makes a loud sound, especially when the blow is to the hollow part of the seat of the chair. Unprotected chair shots are bad news. Nothing fake about those. They have caused concussions and neck injuries. It's up to the guy taking it how he wants to take it, unless the run sheet calls for it. (Run sheet - details of matches, big spots and outcomes on a sheet of paper. Everyone gets one when they walk in the lockerroom.)

Since both HBK, HHH and Carlito all bled last night, let's talk about bleeding. There are many industry terms for blood - juice, color and more terms for the act itself blade, bladejob, gig, gigged, juice, juiced, run, zip. All blood from the forehead in wrestling is real, rather from blading or hardway (blood from a cut that comes from a stiff punch, headbutt, etc.). Many stories over the years have credited blood to blood capsules or packets of chicken blood, etc. Not so. However, blood from the mouth used in an angle is stage blood inside of a condom (they work the best, funny as it is) that is bitten when the blood needs to flow. Stage blood for this purpose is the only type of bleeding allowed in states where the athletic commission forbids it (Kentucky, for example. They are extraordinarily strict when it comes to bleeding and they do not allow self-imposed cuts).

For years, blades were made by simply taking a razor blade and cutting off the sharp edge with a scissors and wrapping the blade in athletic tape, leaving about a millimeter of the blade exposed. Blades are hidden in any number of places, in tights, wristbands, in the lower lip, or the referee has it and will slip it to the wrestler in need when the time comes - then all the wrestler does is make a one to two inch light cut across the forehead (or bigger or deeper depending on the desired amount of bloodflow). Eddie Guerrero used to tape it on the inside of his taped up right wrist, he used to nick the guy he was wrestling from time to time. The late great Wahoo McDaniel, a notorious bleeder, even got the blade stuck in his forehead and finished the match with the blade hanging off his forehead. The blood really flows when a guy is sweating heavy, most of what you see when a guy is bleeding is sweat. I know a couple of indie wrestlers that swear by having a beer or two before the match as alcohol thins the blood. Some are really good at it, some are bad at it, and some guys have been seriously injured. At Judgment Day 2004, Eddie Guerrero, beliving a spectacle of blood was needed in order for his match to have more impact, went nearly bone-deep about 8 inches across and almost went into shock after the match was over. The worst injuries come when a guy blades another guy. For the most part it's no more than a severe scratch, the sweat takes care of the rest. Being that the skin on the forehead scars so easily, many veteran wrestlers have roadmaps of scars on their foreheads. Guys like Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes have so much scar tissue from 20 years of bladejobs that they can start bleeding by just punching themselves in the forehead a few times.

There are countless examples of bladejobs being caught on camera, if you watch wrestling recorded off a DVR or VCR, rewind a bit when a guy bleeds and you can usually catch it. The famous Mick Foley vs. Undertaker Hell In A Cell, you can actually see the blade in Undertaker's hand.

A fellow wrestling fan buddy of mine and I have joked that it would be a great way to fake an office injury, "trip" into the copy machine and blade, freak out the rest of the office...

Keep the wrestling questions coming!
Jerry

 

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  posted on 12/19/2006 at 06:29 PM
What's your take on the Joey Mercury accident? Of course, I'm assuming that's what it was . . . probably should have had a forearm in the way or something.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/19/2006 at 08:03 PM
I just watched to replay Droogie and it looked like a mistake on Joey's part. I noticed he looked and said something Jeff Hardy before leaving the ring.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/20/2006 at 09:04 AM
quote:
What's your take on the Joey Mercury accident? Of course, I'm assuming that's what it was . . . probably should have had a forearm in the way or something.



Let's just say that wasn't part of the plan! Accident is the best word. He has four fractures on the inside of his nose, needed 20 stitches and his left eye was swollen completely shut. He'll be out for two months. These things can happen when you play with ladders...

quote:
I noticed he looked and said something Jeff Hardy before leaving the ring.


Yeah, I think he said something along the lines of "Dude, I'm f*****d up."

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/20/2006 at 09:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5M6oJSnYEg

[Edited on 12/20/2006 by No1ToRunWith]

 

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