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Author: Subject: The Overwhelming Share of Disaster Experts On This Board

Peach Head





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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 04:24 PM
should get their loudmouthed asses to Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama instead of hanging around here and bitching about efforts they were not involved in beyond their complaining and blaming. Why, just their expertise on the logistics of moving tons of uncollected food, water and supplies could have helped beyond reckoning; while their foresight should have been employed best by securing lines of supply to people stranded on rooftops, in convention centers, and in sports arenas. Yet these brave souls have done nothing to inform those in charge of relief efforts, preferring instead to inform each other as to the degree and quality of helpful information that they possess, yet neglected to share with those who needed it most.
 
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Peach Head



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 04:56 PM
Whatever your name is, stop calling me Cliff. There's nothing wrong with me lately or any other time. You **** ers keep complaining and blaming from a position of ignorance, and by that I mean YOU'RE NOT THERE, YOU'RE NOT TRAINED IN OR FAMILIAR WITH WHAT IS POSSIBLE OR WISE IN SUCH SITUATIONS, AND THOSE EXPERTS THAT WERE TRAINED, HAD SOME IDEA OF WHAT MIGHT TRANSPIRE WERE STILL COMPLETELY OVERWHELMED BY THE EXTENT OF WHAT THEY ENCOUNTERED.
Can you not see that the best supplied and strongest nation on the planet finally met something bigger than it expected? Why is it that so many have blinded themselves to the fact that Nature is far older and MUCH bigger than the United States of America?
What is wrong with YOU that you will not see that?

[Edited on 9/4/2005 by Tau]

 
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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 05:02 PM
Good points, Tau.

 

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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 05:07 PM
I'm confused as to how news crews, Geraldo, and even Harry Connick, Jr. , can get to all those people and places so quickly after the hurricane but no national guard, Red Cross, Salvation Army, supplies or help of any kind could get there much earlier than Friday. It seems the media had people in place and were prepared to get there and get the story, but relief and law enforcement agencies were caught flat footed. Here's hoping we learn something from this at all levels and it never happens again.
 

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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 05:12 PM
quote:
Whatever your name is, stop calling me Cliff. There's nothing wrong with me lately or any other time. You **** ers keep complaining and blaming from a position of ignorance, and by that I mean YOU'RE NOT THERE, YOU'RE NOT TRAINED IN OR FAMILIAR WITH WHAT IS POSSIBLE OR WISE IN SUCH SITUATIONS, AND THOSE EXPERTS THAT WERE TRAINED, HAD SOME IDEA OF WHAT MIGHT TRANSPIRE WERE STILL COMPLETELY OVERWHELMED BY THE EXTENT OF WHAT THEY ENCOUNTERED.
Can you not see that the best supplied and strongest nation on the planet finally met something bigger than it expected? Why is it that so many have blinded themselves to the fact that Nature is far older and MUCH bigger than the United States of America?
What is wrong with YOU that you will not see that?



[Edited on 9/4/2005 by Tau]


Most of the posts that I've seen are news articles which quote, at great detail, experts trained and experienced in exactly these types of arenas that find great fault with the federal response. And after years of work and billions of dollars in taxpayers' money spent in exactly this area since 9-11 with this result, I think people have the right to question the effectiveness of those responsible. Unless you think this week worked out pretty well for the folks on the Gulf Coast.

[Edited on 9/4/2005 by nitelite51]

 

Peach Head



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 05:37 PM
Odd that this old time guy can see the obvious logistics of small crews being much more mobile, yet still believes that a wide scale effort shoyuld have been somehow instantaneous. If I have any negative observation, it is that no air drops were employed, yet, there may have some concern that those would have landed in contaminating waters and would have been a wasted effort.
My point is this: we weren't there. That makes us experts on what happens there.

And um, old guy: what is your obsession with me? What is your obsession with the bull **** artist that ran away? What is wrong with you?

 
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Peach Head



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 06:40 PM
You don't move personnel and supplies into the path of a category 5 hurricane, not if you want to keep them in usable condition. The Feds couldn't move without the knowledge of what was needed first and where, and they couldn't have that information because there was no information coming out of any of the affected areas beyond what the media felt they should present. There was no centralized communication grid to work from, only fragments of official information. you can't know what you can do until you know what is going to be possible under the circumstances. You can't know what's going to be possible until you know what the circumstances are, and unless you are there, you can't know the circumstances until somebody tells you. So there you are, I'm obtuse again I guess, but it's better than being plain blind stupid.
 
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Peach Head



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 06:42 PM
And stop calling me that **** s name.
 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 10:26 PM
quote:
should get their loudmouthed asses to Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama instead of hanging around here and bitching about efforts they were not involved in beyond their complaining and blaming.


Maybe instead of polluting this board with your trolling, you should head that way yourself?

quote:
Why, just their expertise on the logistics of moving tons of uncollected food, water and supplies could have helped beyond reckoning; while their foresight should have been employed best by securing lines of supply to people stranded on rooftops, in convention centers, and in sports arenas.


Heh, as opposed to what Bush did for the first 4 days.

quote:
Yet these brave souls have done nothing to inform those in charge of relief efforts, preferring instead to inform each other as to the degree and quality of helpful information that they possess, yet neglected to share with those who needed it most.


Hey with winners like Brown running the show, its going to get a lot worse, but by all means, keep blaming everyone else rather than the Feds in charge.

 

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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 10:33 PM
quote:
Whatever your name is, stop calling me Cliff. There's nothing wrong with me lately or any other time. You **** ers keep complaining and blaming from a position of ignorance, and by that I mean YOU'RE NOT THERE, YOU'RE NOT TRAINED IN OR FAMILIAR WITH WHAT IS POSSIBLE OR WISE IN SUCH SITUATIONS, AND THOSE EXPERTS THAT WERE TRAINED, HAD SOME IDEA OF WHAT MIGHT TRANSPIRE WERE STILL COMPLETELY OVERWHELMED BY THE EXTENT OF WHAT THEY ENCOUNTERED.


If this is true for us, then its also true for you. You cant have it both ways.

quote:
Can you not see that the best supplied and strongest nation on the planet finally met something bigger than it expected?


Can you not see that we had 4-5 days notice that the storm was coming?

Can you not see that having most of the Presidents staff and the President himself on vacation during the storm was a bad thing?

Can you not see that even 2-3 days after the disaster, Bush stayed on vacation, finally returning to his job on Wednesday?

Can you not see that appointing a good ol boy with no experience in disaster management to the job of disaster management was in fact, its own disaster?

Can you not see that the director of Homeland Security had no foothold in reality? He didnt even know about the tens of thousands trapped at the convention center until he was told by the media. It had been all over the news for several days. He is incompetent.

quote:
Why is it that so many have blinded themselves to the fact that Nature is far older and MUCH bigger than the United States of America?
What is wrong with YOU that you will not see that?

[Edited on 9/4/2005 by Tau]


Oh we see it, Tau or Cliff or whoever you are. We also know that FEMA was absorbed into DHS and as such, suffered a complete realignment of its primary duty. DHS claims complete responsibilty for all disasters, both man made and natural. Their inability to respond until almost a week later shows that we are still in dire need of leadership, direction and competence. Thank God this wasnt another terrorist attack.

 

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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 10:42 PM
quote:
You don't move personnel and supplies into the path of a category 5 hurricane, not if you want to keep them in usable condition.


Nobody suggested that.

quote:
The Feds couldn't move without the knowledge of what was needed first and where, and they couldn't have that information because there was no information coming out of any of the affected areas beyond what the media felt they should present.


Funny, NOAA knew exactly where the hurricane was going for several days, how strong it was going to be and even the extent of the damage that would occur. The government knew as well. For whatever reason, nobody did anything to plan for this. Strategic stockpiles of equipment and supplies had not even been tapped as of last night. Another prime example of failure.

quote:
There was no centralized communication grid to work from, only fragments of official information. you can't know what you can do until you know what is going to be possible under the circumstances.


They had *4-5 days notice* that the hurricane was coming directly at New Orleans. Are you saying they couldnt have done anything in that amount of time to lessen the response lag? Are you also suggesting that because they had to wait for it to hit that nothing could have been done until then?

quote:
You can't know what's going to be possible until you know what the circumstances are, and unless you are there, you can't know the circumstances until somebody tells you.


Kind of like the FEMA director not knowing that there were 30K worth of people at the convention center until he was told by the media? They also have these really cool things called 'helicopters' that allow you to fly over areas and look down so that the people flying can see what things look like on the ground.

quote:
So there you are, I'm obtuse again I guess, but it's better than being plain blind stupid.


I dont know about you yet.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 11:08 PM
quote:
should get their loudmouthed asses to Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama instead of hanging around here and bitching about efforts they were not involved in beyond their complaining and blaming. Why, just their expertise on the logistics of moving tons of uncollected food, water and supplies could have helped beyond reckoning; while their foresight should have been employed best by securing lines of supply to people stranded on rooftops, in convention centers, and in sports arenas. Yet these brave souls have done nothing to inform those in charge of relief efforts, preferring instead to inform each other as to the degree and quality of helpful information that they possess, yet neglected to share with those who needed it most.



Whoever the hell you are, why don't you GFY.


Mike

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 01:51 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
should get their loudmouthed asses to Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama instead of hanging around here and bitching about efforts they were not involved in beyond their complaining and blaming.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



Maybe instead of polluting this board with your trolling, you should head that way yourself?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------

I have seen in print and on tv that unless you are part of a large recognized group and have specific training, they do not want you coming there at all.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 06:28 AM
quote:
quote:
I'm confused as to how news crews, Geraldo, and even Harry Connick, Jr. , can get to all those people and places so quickly after the hurricane but no national guard, Red Cross, Salvation Army, supplies or help of any kind could get there much earlier than Friday. It seems the media had people in place and were prepared to get there and get the story, but relief and law enforcement agencies were caught flat footed. Here's hoping we learn something from this at all levels and it never happens again.


It is easier for a handful of people to move by boat in a flooded area than it is to get a truck convoy through water of varying depths. Of course, as Cliff pointed out I am not an expert so maybe I shouldn't say anything.


I was thinking more in terms of the "It's too dangerous to go in there" reports we were getting at the very first as to why no relief supplies were being delivered. As far as the air drops into contaminated water, they were MRE's and bottled water, no fear of contamination there, and once they did start delivering supplies they dropped in the water everywhere for folks to get. I just think it is so clear that for whatever reason the folks that should have been in charge at all levels dropped the ball on this one, in preparation for a huge storm that everyone knew where it was going and the dangers it posed to city under sea level, and then got caught flat footed when the worst did happen. There was no real leadership, no one person taking command and making sure things got done. And now they are all going to start ducking for cover and pointing fingers. Compare this and the response to 9-11. Different scenarios for sure, but it was evident who was in charge and what the process was going to be. Sure didn't have that same thing here.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 09:40 AM
The other difference is that Guiliani did not have a prolonged crisis but was immediately involved in recovery. It was a very different situation. Nagin could turn out to be very good post-crisis manager.
 

Peach Head



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 10:27 AM
quote:
quote:
should get their loudmouthed asses to Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama instead of hanging around here and bitching about efforts they were not involved in beyond their complaining and blaming. Why, just their expertise on the logistics of moving tons of uncollected food, water and supplies could have helped beyond reckoning; while their foresight should have been employed best by securing lines of supply to people stranded on rooftops, in convention centers, and in sports arenas. Yet these brave souls have done nothing to inform those in charge of relief efforts, preferring instead to inform each other as to the degree and quality of helpful information that they possess, yet neglected to share with those who needed it most.



Whoever the hell you are, why don't you GFY.


Mike


Why don't YOU listen to Admiral Timothy J. Keating, Commander, U.S. Northern Command?

 
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Peach Head



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 10:29 AM
quote:
When you know that a Cat 5 hurricane is coming, one that is 300 miles wide, you can start by preparing for the aftermath. Mobilize the National Guard, get supplies ready to move, start assembling medical and rescue personell, cut your Presidential vacation short, cancel your shopping trip and Spamalot show and stop acting surprised that there was devastation. Experts like the Weather Channel meteorologists were predicting that this was going to be a catastrophic storm several days before it made landfall. But Bush and the federal government had not done thing one to prepare for it.

Oh yeah, I forgot, you are a Bush apologist.


Tune in CNN, learn something from the man in charge, who was in charge since August 27th.

 
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Peach Head



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 10:33 AM
Any of you may go ahead and admit that you do not know what you are talking about as you not involved in crisis management. Those of you that are, are welcome to continue blathering on about a situation you are not present to witness.
 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 10:35 AM
Tragedies aside..... since when is your opinion the only one that counts?



[Edited on 9/5/2005 by ABBstillrockin04]

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 10:40 AM
quote:
quote:



Maybe instead of polluting this board with your trolling, you should head that way yourself?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------




So a difference of opinion is now trolling is it Jack? Why you closet Nazi, you.

 
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Peach Head



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 10:42 AM
quote:
Tragedies aside..... since when is you're opinion the only one that counts?




Or yours? Or anybody elses? Well said. Thank you.

 
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Peach Pro



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 10:50 AM
"People, can you feel it? Love is everywhere"

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 11:11 AM
quote:
9/11 was a lot easier. We are talking about 16 acres as opposed to 90,000 square miles. Giuliani was the mayor of the entire disaster are, not counting Somerset County, Pa. and the Pentagon. Communications were not disrupted and, except for some people in the immediate area, nobody was displaced from their homes. there was no mass evacuation in NY any where near the scale in the hurricane area. The task that Nagin faced is in no way comparable to what Giuliani faced.


Yes, I agree with everything you've said here. It just seems that in the 9/11 case, there was someone in charge. Granted, this is a much larger disaster, covering a huge area,with communication being difficult at best, but it is just frustrating that there didn't seem to be any one person in charge making sure things were getting done. I guess I'm venting my frustrations rather than talking as any kind of disaster management expert. And thanks for your help in working through that OTF.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 11:21 AM
Yep, Tau must be Cliff. Tau mentions trolling. Trolling posters was a particular fascination for Clifford Arthur Lake. But whoever Cliff may be, or whether he is here, and whoever Tau may be, one constant remains: OLDTIMEFAN is still a SH!THEAD. Why does this FUKWAD relentlessly taunt people? Tau might as well be Dean Long.


OLDTIMEFAN you are a condescending piece of SH!T.




OLDTIMEFAN, please, shut the HELL up, GROW UP. Do something usefull besides taunting people.



Tau may well be Cliff. Cliff may well be trying to carry on here as Tau. So what? And yes, Clifford has also been known to be a condescending punk, but we ALL have personality quirks that we need to work on.




OTF, stop taunting everyone in this forum. I last told you to stop picking on Quinn. You say Quinn has no friends and rotten teeth, that all of his posts are ETC. Who the HELL cares what you know or think about anything?




OTF go crawl back under your rock.




I can't even lightly browse through the forum without coming into contact with Forum Terrorists.



OTF, you are TROLLING. Leave people alone.





This post is brought to you by Dean Long/JaminRebel/ETC. who has been BANNED from this forum under about 6 or 7 different usernames. I well understand why people change their names to post to this bullsh!t forum full of THUGS.







[Edited on 9/5/2005 by JaminRebel]

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 11:25 AM
Most of my comments have been about the bunch of you commenting, so no I'm no expert, but I'm not pretending to know more than I do, unlike yourself.
 
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