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Author: Subject: Please Stop/ ST & SCB please read my final post

Zen Peach





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  posted on 9/3/2005 at 03:53 PM
Just for a day could you all please not make this horrible disaster a political issue? Itís not just here on this site but I see it in a lot of places. We donít need to be divided right now, we need to come together for good of the people and not fight amongst ourselves. This blame game doesnít help anything.

I have never made a political post before but I canít help myself here. BTW Iím a moderate to conservative Independent. I didnít vote for Bush or Kerry, so donít think Iím a Bush supporter blindly backing him.

Iím just so sick of coming on here and seeing that itís Bushs' fault in a new thread every other hour. It just doesnít help the situation at hand. Seems you are using the misfortune of these people to further your personal political views.

This isnít meant to be a personal attack on anyone here although it may seem that way. Just my $.02.

Flame away

[Edited on 9/5/2005 by fast43]

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 9/3/2005 at 03:57 PM
I've got to agree. Everyone is entitled to their own view. But there are plenty of places on the WWW that are politically based. Perhaps you could reach a greater audience on those sites. It would be great if this sight returned to discussing music and friendship.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2005 at 04:43 PM
If you click on "Board Index" above, you'll see lots of threads to discuss music. You'll also see one thread to come to to bitch about things. It's called the Whipping Post. If you don't like bitching, don't go there.

Pointing out the multitude of ways that the federal government has failed their duty in the matter at hand is not being "political." It wouldn't matter one bit if this were Bush, or Bill Clinton, or any other president. It has nothing whatsoever to do with politics. It has do do with more Americans dying because we have an inept man serving as President.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2005 at 05:26 PM
quote:
Just for a day could you all please not make this horrible disaster a political issue?


This disaster would be a lot less horrible had those in the realm of the political issue done their jobs.

quote:
Itís not just here on this site but I see it in a lot of places.


Damn right and you will continue to see it. People are pissed. They are sick of it. Ineptitude, aloofness, crass indignation etc. etc. etc. We expect more from the "President" even if it is George Bush.

quote:
We donít need to be divided right now, we need to come together for good of the people and not fight amongst ourselves. This blame game doesnít help anything.


We were divided long before Katrina. Hopefully some of the good that comes from all this is that a lot of people were drug screaming and crying in the light of reality and can now see that the emperor has no clothes.

quote:
I have never made a political post before but I canít help myself here. BTW Iím a moderate to conservative Independent. I didnít vote for Bush or Kerry, so donít think Iím a Bush supporter blindly backing him.


Im a former Democrat, join the club.

quote:
Iím just so sick of coming on here and seeing that itís Bushs' fault in a new thread every other hour.


Ill make you a deal; if you can tell me who else is responsible for the Federal government response, other than the Bush administration, Ill gladly blame them.

quote:
It just doesnít help the situation at hand. Seems you are using the misfortune of these people to further your personal political views.


Like you, we are frustrated too. Many of us know how incompetent Bush is and when something like this happens, people die and its beyond comprehension how so many can support such a failure of leadership. Before you tell us we shouldnt be blaming this administration, ensure that you know the facts of the matter as to why many of us are pissed. For me, they include the following:

* Bush remained on vacation for an additional 4 days when he knew the hurricane was going to hit and likely, destroy much of the coastal area of LA/Miss. Acceptable?

* While the hurricane was killing people and causing destruction beyond compare, Bush was cutting birthday cake with John McCain in Arizona. Acceptable?

* Bushs first full day "at work" was Wednesday, 3 days after the hurricane hit. WHy didnt he come back sooner to help coordinate what was fully expected to be a cat 4-5 hurricane?

* Condi Rice went on vacation to NYC while the storm was blasting the coast. She got to take in a broadway show and buy some expensive shoes before being shamed back to DC.

* Cheney is still on vacation as we speak. (EDIT: E&P reports Cheney came back today)

* On the 28th, LA begged the Federal government and specifically, Bush, for help in the impending disaster. Nothing was done.

* The appointed head of FEMA, a good friend of Bush, has absolutely no experience in disaster management. He replaced a man who had extensive experience, but that man was a Clinton appointment, so its best that he was replaced.

* The director of Homeland Security is practically clueless and continues to spin answers to the questions he is being asked. He made outrageous comparisons today to try and deflect the obvious concern over their failure to take charge in a situation like this.

* This is a disaster we knew was coming. We had approximately 5 days notice. Look how this has turned out. If this was a terrorist attack, we would probably have been even worse off.

I could go on, but wont.

quote:
This isnít meant to be a personal attack on anyone here although it may seem that way. Just my $.02.

Flame away


No flames. Please take the time to read the legitimate criticisims being pointed at Bush. If you want to see what another President did in a similar situation, look up Clinton and Hurricane Floyd in 1999. Then ask if the criticisim is warranted.

[Edited on 9/3/2005 by SquatchTexas]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2005 at 05:35 PM
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp? vnu_content_id=1001054581

'My Pet Goat'--The Sequel

This time, during a catastrophe, the president did not merely dither for seven minutes, but for three days, and his top advisors followed suit. While the media has done a good job in portraying the overall failure of leadership in this weeks hurricane's disaster, it has not focused enough on this deadly dereliction of duty.l

While a rising chorus in the press has taken the White House, FEMA and the Pentagon to task for performing miserably in their response to the human disaster on the Gulf Coast, few have focused on the most telling aspect of the entire failure. Itís not just incompetence. Itís a shameful lack of concern: The 9/11 ďMy Pet GoatĒ dithering on an administration-wide scale.

Simply stated, the president and his top advisers chose vacation over action.

While the media has done a good job in portraying the overall deadly failure of leadership, it has not focused enough on this deadly dereliction of duty.

President Bush, in his weekly radio address on Saturday, said: ďIn America, we do not abandon our fellow citizens in their hour of need.Ē But Bush, and his top aides, quite frankly, did.

I was reminded of this today, seeing pictures of Vice President Dick Cheney finally showing up at the White House after riding out the storm-of-the-century in Wyoming. Perhaps he brought back with him a couple dozen trout to throw on the grill for the White House staffers.

His absence, and the presidentís performance during it, can only add to the rumors that Bush is clueless without the Big Guy at his side.

This follows Bush himself remaining on vacation for more than two days after the storm hit, despite acknowledging this was the worst disaster in the nationís history. He did take a trip during those days, not back to Washington but out to San Diego to deliver a political speech comparing his Iraq war to World War II. It got little play because nearly everyone else in the country, beyond his inner circle, was focused on New Orleans instead.

What that trip did produce was a picture of Bush laughing with a country singer and strumming a guitar. But at least the president did start heading home late Wednesday. As he did, Secretary of State Rice was still enjoying her vacation in New York.

In fact, that night she enjoyed a few good yucks while attending the goofy Broadway play ďSpamalot.Ē Ironically, the Bush team's performance this week did indeed seem like something out of a Monty Python skit. Each, in his or her own way, took a bunch of "silly walks."

Condi also played tennis with Monica Seles and on Thursday went on a shoe-shopping spree on Fifth Avenue until a fellow customer yelled at her for not doing her job and bloggers exposed all of this. Then she hurriedly headed back to Washington. Whoops, we discovered she was overdue in getting a grip on offers to help that were pouring in from overseas governments and organizations.

Paging Andrew Card: Turns out he was Bush's Maine man.

And what of FEMA chief Michael Brown? He was so out-of-it that he didnít even know about 10,000 evacuees living and dying at the Convention Center, even after they had received wide TV coverage for a solid day.

The next day, the president greeted him with, "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." A medal is surely on the way.

At a press conference on Thursday, the fourth day of the disaster, with newspapers and TV reporting tens of thousands stranded at hospitals, homes and a highway overpass, Homeland Security chief Michael Cherotff was asked by a reporter if he thought only hundreds or maybe many more needed rescued. He replied:

ďI'd be guessing. I mean, a thousand seems like a very large number, but we have already rescued several thousand. Hopefully, most people have gotten themselves onto roofs and have been picked up. But, as I said, rather than give you a guesstimate, I can tell you that as long as there is someone on a roof waving a flag, we're going to be sending a helicopter out there to get them.Ē

At the same press briefing he was asked if thought there were enough soldiers on the ground to control the situation. His answer: ďI'm satisfied that we have not only more than enough forces there and on the way. And frankly, what we're doing is we are putting probably more than we need in order to send an unambiguous message that we will not tolerate lawlessness or violence or interference with the evacuation.Ē

While the 9/11 ďMy Pet GoatĒ episode was certainly illuminating, itís not certain what might have worked out better that day had the president dropped the book and taken action. But his failure to grab the reins in the hurricane catastrophe for three days this week probably doomed hundreds, or more, to death.

This is not mere incompetence, but dereliction of duty. The press should call it by its proper name.

Greg Mitchell (gmitchellATeditorandpublisherDOTcom) is editor of E&P.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 9/3/2005 at 07:10 PM
quote:
Just for a day could you all please not make this horrible disaster a political issue? Itís not just here on this site but I see it in a lot of places. We donít need to be divided right now, we need to come together for good of the people and not fight amongst ourselves. This blame game doesnít help anything.


It's not possible Bill. Poli zealots are just like religious zealots...blinded by their own truth and they have to get enlightenment out to the world.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2005 at 07:14 PM
quote:
There are too many threads saying the same thing and other stuff is being pushed off page 1. Please do not start any new threads about this, just add to the ones that exist.


Especially our TIT thread

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/3/2005 at 09:18 PM
quote:
quote:
Just for a day could you all please not make this horrible disaster a political issue? Itís not just here on this site but I see it in a lot of places. We donít need to be divided right now, we need to come together for good of the people and not fight amongst ourselves. This blame game doesnít help anything.


It's not possible Bill. Poli zealots are just like religious zealots...blinded by their own truth and they have to get enlightenment out to the world.


Hey, Im all for the truth. Please feel free to post whatever you feel hasnt been true and we can discuss it. Speaking for myself, I tend to live in reality and post whats actually happened.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 9/3/2005 at 09:21 PM
quote:
Just for a day could you all please not make this horrible disaster a political issue?


wise words.....

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 12:16 AM
quote:
I know Bill (fast43) and I think I know where he comes from. it isn't so much that he doesn't like the political talk, but that every time somebody finds a new link to post we get a new thread. I agree. There are too many threads saying the same thing and other stuff is being pushed off page 1. Please do not start any new threads about this, just add to the ones that exist.



Good post, OT. I agree.



Mike

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 03:14 AM
I can see the value in having fewer threads talking about the same thing. I won't start any more threads about Derek.

I post on one other forum, where all the discussion about a particular topic will wind up in one thread that goes on forever. I mean, they discuss the war in Iraq in the same thread from when the war started. Other threads start up and die down, but the main discussion ones go on forever. We use more of a shotgun approach here. We like to scatter our shots...better chance of hitting a moving target.

 

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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 07:41 PM
This is what lefties do, bitch, bitch bitch, no solutions. Monday morning quarterback it all you want. Nagin and Blanco should be swinging from a tree by now. They are the ones that created this disaster. When you have 60% of the population sitting around waiting for their monthly check, you are not doing your job. It's funny, you all want the federal government out of your lives, until you want them in it to meet your needs that is.
 

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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 07:50 PM
quote:
BodineFan, that was one of the most uniformed posts I have ever read. I suppose next you want to give Bush a medal.

As for solutions, what are the "righties" doing in New Orleans except coming in a few days too late? What have their solutions been?


I don't think he deserves a medal, but this mess certainly is not his fault. The beurocracy that allows crap like this to happen is entrenched to the point that it really doesn't mateer who's in charge. It's the same machine that was in place when clinton was in and Bush 1 before him. It's far far beyond what you can control by voting.

 

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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 08:26 PM
quote:


Exactly right. Now compare Clinton's swift response to Hurricane Andrew with Bush's response to Katrina. Now tell me that it is beauracracy and not the man at the top.


Ahahahahaha, that's a good one, George Bush the first was President during Andrew (august 24, 1992) and the slow (5 day) response time to Andrew was one of the things Clinton hammered him on in the November 1992 election. It takes time to get the Feds rolling after a hurricane, they don't put all their assets at ground zero and use what's left.

 

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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 09:00 PM
quote:
If you click on "Board Index" above, you'll see lots of threads to discuss music. You'll also see one thread to come to to bitch about things. It's called the Whipping Post. If you don't like bitching, don't go there.




And yet this is their opinion, and just as valid as any, including yours, bitch. It also happens to be correct.

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 09:05 PM
Now you're calling people "bitch," Cliffy? That sure gives you more credence.

 

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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 09:09 PM
I get it, now, very good! I guess I AM a little obtuse after all. You don't agree with someone, you call them a "Cliff"! Very good!
Don't **** ing call me that again, **** .

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 09:36 PM
Good grief.

otf, please pass me the hash pipe.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 09:38 PM
Cliff.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 09:39 PM
quote:
If you click on "Board Index" above, you'll see lots of threads to discuss music. You'll also see one thread to come to to bitch about things. It's called the Whipping Post. If you don't like bitching, don't go there.

Pointing out the multitude of ways that the federal government has failed their duty in the matter at hand is not being "political." It wouldn't matter one bit if this were Bush, or Bill Clinton, or any other president. It has nothing whatsoever to do with politics. It has do do with more Americans dying because we have an inept man serving as President.


I'm sorry I didn't realize that the WP was your personal F***ing playground

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 10:11 PM
quote:
This is what lefties do, bitch, bitch bitch, no solutions.


Reading from the RW playbook?

quote:
Monday morning quarterback it all you want. Nagin and Blanco should be swinging from a tree by now.


But you arent quarterbacking right now are you?

quote:
They are the ones that created this disaster.


Yeah, Im sure 4 years worth of cutting the funding for upkeep of the flood control infrastructure was their fault.

quote:
When you have 60% of the population sitting around waiting for their monthly check, you are not doing your job.


Interesting. So what is your solution for what the mayor should be doing to stop that?

quote:
It's funny, you all want the federal government out of your lives, until you want them in it to meet your needs that is.


ROFL..you got your talking points confused. See, us liberals and others (read non-conservative) typically have no problem with government in our lives. Especially when its full scale natural disasters. Hey, isnt Rush on right about now? Better hurry along...

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/4/2005 at 10:14 PM
quote:
I don't think he deserves a medal, but this mess certainly is not his fault.


So, him staying on vacation until Wednesday was ok? While people were dying, he was goofing off? Tell me if this had been Clinton that it would have been ok.

quote:
The beurocracy that allows crap like this to happen is entrenched to the point that it really doesn't mateer who's in charge.


Funny, when its Bush in the crosshairs, it never matters whos in charge, we shouldnt blame people right now, we should wait until later to point fingers etc.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 01:40 PM
This WILL be my final post on this subject.

ST & SCB you both pretty much showed no respect for my opinion. ST you hijacked my thread and rehashed everything that I was asking to give a rest for just one day. SCB you told me there were other forums I could go to. I donít open your political threads and I get tired of seeing Bush____________ fill in the blank every other hour of the day.

I first signed up in 12/99 when I got my first computer. I posted once and then all the Dickey stuff started and I thought what a bunch of angry people. I never posted again but I lurked some. Then almost 3 years ago I stumbled upon show trading. I started coming around more often but I wouldnít come to the WP, again a bunch of angry people.

I come to the WP to socialize with my friends that post on TIT thread.

I apologize that I have a lot to be happy about and my life does not center around politics.

 

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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 01:46 PM
quote:
I've got to agree. Everyone is entitled to their own view. But there are plenty of places on the WWW that are politically based. Perhaps you could reach a greater audience on those sites. It would be great if this sight returned to discussing music and friendship.
WE CAN"T! 'Cause remember.....FRIENDS don't let FRIENDS vote rebuplican!

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/5/2005 at 02:04 PM
quote:
Funny you should mention Derek. I have noticed that he has been scarce lately. I guess he is having a hard time defending his boy Bush.


That is proof positive of the abject stupidity that has been on this board for a week. Since Friday, I have been staying out where we have my uncle and aunt staying as they live in New Orleans and are stranded---refugees, whatever you want to call it. I have been helping them find information, make a plan as to what their next step is, working phones, staying up late into the night to try and tune in WWL 870 am as it fades in and out as has been the only source of info at times for Jefferson parrish, and everything else. What I came up with, in light of my opinions of the Red Cross etc, I gave my uncle cash money to take with him when he travels back to Terrytown New Orleans tomorow to give to the right folks, people he comes across in ground zero that could use it, and my friends followed suit and ante'ed up as well. My uncle is streetwise and will know who to give it to. For those stuck in line or a holding station bored out of their mind I gave him a bunch og magazine to hand out as well.

As far as what I have viewed from folks that actually have a stake in this, folks actually from there in Mississippi and Louisiana, getting information from folks from Baton Rouge to Pass Christian, I absolutely have my opinions on this fiasco and will let it rip shortly. But the idea by someone like Old Man Fan and Squat and SCB or whomever, that I have ducked anything on this or any thread while at the time I am staying with my aunt and uncle, who are refugees from there as we speak, shows you how self absorbed and pathetic folks on here can be, and shows you the level of intelligence we are dealing with here. Here I am helping my kin who actually lives down there, and not worrying about this forum and what these dime store cowboy pukes say from afar, who have used the suffering of people I know and a city I love to further their whining political BS, and have done it from day one. 'Hold on uncle, let me use up the phone line to check in with SCB, OMF, and Squatbag's worthless a$$ instead of that follow up call to FEMA'......does that make sense to you folks???

Bill (fast43) is a good man, and I know that because I've hung with him in person, and he makes a lot of sense. And I am guilty of it to, as it was hard not to respond to the stupidity that started from day one. But here is what is obvious, folks that have a stake in this, like Patty, myself, heck, even BillyBlastoff has actually lived there, the reaction is different. Mad as hell, absolutely, but mad because of who we got down there, not some arm-chair quarterbacks wearing a dress whining from far away.

As far as my uncle and aunt, they get to go to their house tomorow, although they will not stay the night as the looting and lowlifes and thugs are still rampant. Guns were offered to them up here to take back with them, but they will simply find a way to sleep somewhere else. It will depend on how many neighbors are back around their house, so if there is enough there to band together they might stay. Now that I am back home I will try and help PattyG to do whatever I can to find info on her family members as she asked in her message, and I am going to direct her to another person on here who has Coast Guard and emergency experience.

Meanwhile you got the you-know-who's on here sniping and whining and being worthless while folks on this site literally still do not know the fate of their loved ones. Pathetic.


DH

[Edited on 9/5/2005 by DerekFromCincinnati]

 

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