Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread >Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Fan-Recorded Concerts are Far from Dead

A Peach Supreme





Posts: 2814
(2824 all sites)
Registered: 8/3/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/31/2005 at 07:37 PM
By Michael Senft
30 August 2005
The Arizona Republic, page A1

If you are a Dave Matthews Band fan who can't make tonight's concert at Cricket Pavilion, don't worry. Within hours of the final curtain call, the show will likely be available online for download.

Legally. And for free.

The group is one of the leaders in the music industry's taper-friendly movement, artists who allow their concerts to be recorded and traded by fans.

The Grateful Dead pioneered the underground movement in the '60s, but it's exploded in recent years thanks to new technology and the Internet, even as record companies have cracked down on illegal downloading of music.

Jeff Shaw of Chandler, who has been trading heavy metal shows since 1992 and taping since 2000, explains the attraction.

"After hearing the songs live and the crowd cheering, listening to the studio albums just wasn't the same," he says.

Other taper-friendly artists include John Mayer and Pearl Jam. Still, the majority of major recording artists oppose the idea, saying it takes away their control and potential income from their music.

"Bands whose income comes primarily from album sales, it affects them," said Boyd Tinsley, fiddler for the Dave Matthews Band. "We love what we do as musicians, but it is what we do to put food on the table for our families."

In 2004, Alanis Morissette won a lawsuit against a Finnish fan who was trading live recordings over the Internet. And earlier this year, the popular online trading site easytree.org was shut down after fans posted live recordings of Nirvana and U2.

Metal superstars Metallica, whose members gained notoriety when they targeted fans pirating its music on Napster, opposes trading because of concerns about subpar performances circulating.

"Metallica is very particular about the quality of their recordings and anything with their name on it," the band writes in a statement on its Web site. "This standard of quality is lost when the band's name is used and recordings are distributed without their permission."

Even bands who support taping, such as the Allman Brothers Band, do not allow their shows to circulate on the Internet. The group opposes online trading in an effort to combat bootlegging, the illegal sale of unauthorized live recordings.

Plugging leaks

Despite their support for it, even the members of the Dave Matthews Band had reservations about allowing their shows to circulate online, especially after early demos of an abandoned album, dubbed the Lillywhite Sessions, were leaked onto the Internet in 2000.

Antsmarching.org, the largest Dave Matthews trading site on the Web, works with the band to alleviate any concerns by making sure unauthorized material doesn't get posted on the site and by policing Web sites like eBay and reporting bootleggers.

"They don't like to be public about it, but we are on a cellphone basis with them and work together on issues such as a leak of an album," says Joe Maliszeski, Web master of the site.

Brewster Kahle, director of archive.org, home to more than 25,000 legal concerts from more than 1,000 bands, said tapers have a "great deal of respect" for the policies of a band.

"If a band posts restrictions as to what materials can be put on the archive, there is a self-appointed sense of making sure the that the band's wishes are observed," Kahle said.

Dead start

Tape trading started among Deadheads, the legion of fans who followed the Grateful Dead in the late '60s, recording the shows for posterity.

Dead guitarist Jerry Garcia "believed that once they had played the music, it belonged to the audience, and they could do with it what they wanted," says David Lemieux, official tape archivist for the Dead, a position he has held since 1999.

Tapers eventually started using more sophisticated equipment, mounting stereo microphones on 10-foot stands to minimize crowd noise, using digital recorders and even laptop computers to record the concerts. Many of these audience recordings rivaled the Dead's official releases in sound quality.

The recordings circulated among the fans, who began collecting as many shows as possible. Many Deadheads amassed huge collections of tapes, networking at concerts and through fanzines like Relix and Taper's Quarterly.

"They realized that every concert was unique and within every show there was a magical moment to treasure," Lemieux says.

For the fans

In the '90s, groups like the Dave Matthews Band adopted both the Dead's free-form concert style as well as their pro-taper stance.

The group sees taping as a way to foster fan loyalty.

"We always allowed people to tape our shows, even when we were playing small clubs in Virginia," Tinsley says. "We're always trying to come up with new ways to satisfy our fans."

He also credits the legions of tapers with helping create a buzz around the band in the early '90s, eventually leading to it landing a recording contract.

"It was a great thing for the fans who wanted copies of the show, but they also passed them on to their friends," he says. "We'd go to places in the early '90s where we'd never been before, but we'd have sellout shows because people had heard these tapes."

And indie rock bands, like Tucson's frontera rockers Calexico, see tape trading as a way of avoiding the corporate middleman and interacting directly with fans.

"It's another way of doing things yourself, doing things through grass roots," Calexico singer Joey Burns says. "When you put the creative stuff directly in the hands of the audience, you get more interesting interpretations of how to distribute music.

"The fact that (fans) even want to record us or listen to us again and again is a great compliment."

Trading online

Thanks to the Internet, traders no longer need to network through fanzines and meet-ups, they connect through Web sites. Here are some of the Web sites that offer taper-friendly trading and downloading:

* http://www.etree.org -- The center for tape-trading online since 1998. Visitors to Etree can browse lists of available shows, arrange trades and network with fellow fans across the globe and track their own collections in an online database. In addition, the site offers more than 1,000 shows for downloading.

* http://www.archive.org -- More than 25,000 downloadable concerts from more than 1,000 bands. Also includes public-domain books, music and video.

* bluegrassbox.com -- Looking for some old-tyme pickin' and grinnin', then check out this bluegrass-related site for download or streaming audio.

* bt.viachicago.org -- Wilco-focused trading site. Viachicago offers more than 300 shows for download.

* cotapers.org -- This small torrent site is specifically dedicated to taper-friendly concerts in Colorado.

* http://www.antsmarching.org -- The largest Dave Matthews Band trading site, boasting more than 94,000 members and offering more than 700 DMB-related shows.

* http://www.sugarmegs.org -- One of the first online sources for live music, Sugarmegs offers streaming audio of more than 3,400 concerts.

* http://www.dreamingtree.org -- A smaller DMB site that has more than 300 Dave Matthews Band shows available.

(c) Copyright 2005, The Arizona Republic. All Rights Reserved.

 

____________________
"We are all travelers in this world, from the sweet grass to the packin' house, birth til death, we travel between the eternities."

 
Replies:

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 916
(955 all sites)
Registered: 9/17/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/31/2005 at 07:54 PM
great article...and I love how everyone just assumes the Grateful Dead invented taping and trading. Especially since until the mid eighties, they did everything they could to STOP it.

 

____________________
It's not that I lack motivation...its that I just don't care. - Peter Gibbons, Office Space

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1088
(1088 all sites)
Registered: 2/21/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/31/2005 at 11:39 PM
quote:
great article...and I love how everyone just assumes the Grateful Dead invented taping and trading. Especially since until the mid eighties, they did everything they could to STOP it.


Huh? I'm not sure what you're saying. Do I sense sarcasm? Or are you agreeing with the article? I read it to say that Deadheads were the first tapers. Or are you really saying the band itself started it all?

Totally confused.

Thanks for the article enigmajean, btw.

 

____________________
"I'd like to thank the good Lord for making me a Yankee"
__________________
http://db.etree.org/otherhandmer

 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 916
(955 all sites)
Registered: 9/17/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/1/2005 at 06:26 AM
quote:
quote:
great article...and I love how everyone just assumes the Grateful Dead invented taping and trading. Especially since until the mid eighties, they did everything they could to STOP it.


Huh? I'm not sure what you're saying. Do I sense sarcasm? Or are you agreeing with the article? I read it to say that Deadheads were the first tapers. Or are you really saying the band itself started it all?

Totally confused.

Thanks for the article enigmajean, btw.


I should have separated the lines. I think the article was great...with the exception of the part about the Deadheads being the first tapers/traders. If they were, there woudln't be tapes of Miles Davis from the early 60s, Sinatra from the 50s, etc. Plus, my last sentance...you can hardly credit someone with starting something they tried to stop from happening.

 

____________________
It's not that I lack motivation...its that I just don't care. - Peter Gibbons, Office Space

 

Peach Head



Karma:
Posts: 107
(107 all sites)
Registered: 5/25/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/1/2005 at 09:37 AM
The first LEGALLY ALLOWED Grateful Dead fan recordings are the July 1984 Greek Theater run. It was at these shows that the "tapers section" was first implemented. Prior to those shows, taping was not actually allowed and tapers were ejected if they were caught, even though there were a lot of supporters in the band's organization.

No question, taping has been around for much longer than the Dead. Anyone see the movie "Songcatcher"?

Dirk

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1436
(1439 all sites)
Registered: 11/10/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/1/2005 at 01:29 PM
i was thinking after the debacle known as Stand Up, that if there is one thing about the Dave Matthews Band that you can't say, it's that they aren't good to their fans. They are one of the most fan friendsly bands in the business, if not the most. Their bootlegs have the best sound I've heard of any band's bootlegs. Although, SCI, and UMcGee are good as well. Nothing against the ABB tapers. I just feel that the ABB is missing out. If they're afraid that lifting their downloading policy would mean fans putting shows that are IL's up for dload, then they don't trust their fans. That's another issue though. Clearlly, Mule does. Thanks Warren!!

 

____________________
My name is Adam not Jessica.

Yesterday's anger is the sadness of today."-Warren Haynes

 

Sublime Peach



Karma:
Posts: 7925
(7995 all sites)
Registered: 12/24/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/1/2005 at 01:37 PM
howmuch does Dave Mathews charge for his website again?
 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 16323
(16532 all sites)
Registered: 5/26/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/1/2005 at 01:41 PM
quote:
i was thinking after the debacle known as Stand Up, that if there is one thing about the Dave Matthews Band that you can't say, it's that they aren't good to their fans. They are one of the most fan friendsly bands in the business, if not the most. Their bootlegs have the best sound I've heard of any band's bootlegs. Although, SCI, and UMcGee are good as well. Nothing against the ABB tapers. I just feel that the ABB is missing out. If they're afraid that lifting their downloading policy would mean fans putting shows that are IL's up for dload, then they don't trust their fans. That's another issue though. Clearlly, Mule does. Thanks Warren!!


I disagree with that statement in bold. How is DMB the most fan friendly? They don't hang out after/before shows to hang with their fans, and take time to est. a fan base like the Derek Trucks Band does. I would say dTb is the most fan friendly bands in the whole business. They allow tapers, they allow Bit Torrents, Almost all of their shows are on the archive thanks to Tapers. DMB may have sites like the warehouse, etc.. but why would that make them more fan friendly? Offering them Pre-Sale tickets? Thats about it. Not to mention you have to pay to be a warehouse member. DTB doesn't charge their fans for Pre-Sale tickets.

 

____________________

We're a winner and never let anybody say "boy, you can't make it!"

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5027
(5044 all sites)
Registered: 1/27/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/1/2005 at 02:04 PM
I think its gotten a little tougher for The DMB to remain as fan fan friendly as lots of other bands on the scene only because of the magnitude of their popularity. Dave sells out stadiums and most of the other Jambands with the exception of WSP asre still mostly playing small places and can interact much more easily. The word fan-friendly has many meanings, not just interaction between band and fans. Warren loves Dave Mattews and his whole band and has said many times how they have remained very very down to earth and are the same folks they were 10 years ago. They just have bigger bank accounts thats all.

As far as the taping thing goes: The Dead may not have been the first band to ever have their shows recorded by fans but they are definitely the first that did it on a high-level and in fact made it easier for fans to do so. They supported the idea all along. They are the first band that had taper-sections and offered designated seats near the soundboard for all the tapers. I can remember as far back as the late 1970's when The Dead had as many as 50 or 60 tapars at almost every show. Then I'd go see a band like Pink Floyd or The ABB etc and there would only be one or two. THe Dead are as responsible as anyone for allowing their fans to have access to their shows once they were done with it. It helped grow The Dead's massive popularity by allowing the he shows to be traded and would in fact be a source of conversation among The Deadheads and got a buzz going as to which shows were good, not so good or exceptional. The Dead may not have had near the record sales as some other bands but their live shows were always regeaded as among the best in the business. If it were not for The Dead, fan-friendly taping and trading would probably not exist the way it does today...The system works and The Dead proved that it could.
.

[Edited on 9/1/2005 by EddieP]

[Edited on 9/1/2005 by EddieP]

 
E-Mail User

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1907
(1909 all sites)
Registered: 3/16/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/2/2005 at 12:43 PM
quote:
I think its gotten a little tougher for The DMB to remain as fan fan friendly as lots of other bands on the scene only because of the magnitude of their popularity. Dave sells out stadiums and most of the other Jambands with the exception of WSP asre still mostly playing small places and can interact much more easily. The word fan-friendly has many meanings, not just interaction between band and fans. Warren loves Dave Mattews and his whole band and has said many times how they have remained very very down to earth and are the same folks they were 10 years ago. They just have bigger bank accounts thats all.

As far as the taping thing goes: The Dead may not have been the first band to ever have their shows recorded by fans but they are definitely the first that did it on a high-level and in fact made it easier for fans to do so. They supported the idea all along. They are the first band that had taper-sections and offered designated seats near the soundboard for all the tapers. I can remember as far back as the late 1970's when The Dead had as many as 50 or 60 tapars at almost every show. Then I'd go see a band like Pink Floyd or The ABB etc and there would only be one or two. THe Dead are as responsible as anyone for allowing their fans to have access to their shows once they were done with it. It helped grow The Dead's massive popularity by allowing the he shows to be traded and would in fact be a source of conversation among The Deadheads and got a buzz going as to which shows were good, not so good or exceptional. The Dead may not have had near the record sales as some other bands but their live shows were always regeaded as among the best in the business. If it were not for The Dead, fan-friendly taping and trading would probably not exist the way it does today...The system works and The Dead proved that it could.
.

[Edited on 9/1/2005 by EddieP]

[Edited on 9/1/2005 by EddieP]


Plus, I don't know where the previous post came about saying that the Dead tried to STOP it... I have show from like 71 or something, where Bob Weir says from the stage to a taper that he needs to move closer to get a better recording.

People have illegally taping shows forever and stealing studio tapes and making bootlegs.

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1436
(1439 all sites)
Registered: 11/10/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/2/2005 at 04:04 PM
Mike I think you're a little off on this bud. I have been a warehouse member for three years and they do tons of things for their fans. I have seen people that have run into the band members and have met them. They started along time before Derek Trucks. They started in 1990. When they first started you bet they were as easy to get to as he was. I don't see Gregg and Butch hanging around either, although they are very humble and nice guys. Derek and Warren are an extereme exception, as are the Black Crowes. Going back to Warehouse, when they put out the Gorge release they let the members vote on which songs they wanted on the 2-disc set. That's pretty fan-friendly. They also allow taping and downloading. and like I said, they have, by far, the best bootlegs I"ve heard. They said as long as it keeps fan interaction in line they don't mind. They also were being criticized by Ticketmaster for taking too many tickets for their fans. They sell them at a far cheaper price without some of the extra charges. Each year, they send an extra CD of soundboard songs from various shows that are handpicked by them. Also, they send a signed picture to some members, but everyone gets a picture. Dave is also one of the most gracious one's in the businiess. I just don't think you can compare Derek to Dave Matthews Band.

 

____________________
My name is Adam not Jessica.

Yesterday's anger is the sadness of today."-Warren Haynes

 
 


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software


Privacy | Terms of Service
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com