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Author: Subject: Warren Haynes - Songwriter Extrodinaire

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 08:53 AM
OK, lets start over: Kill the bickering thread and lets start something of interest: That is if you can.

quote:
If Dylan only wrote the lyrics to "Like A Rolling Stone," then he would have qualified himself in the upper echelon of rock music writers with that opus alone. However, I'm certainly not above discussing any of Warren's lyrics. I do think the man is a genius. Today when I was washing mom's .... er ... my car. Yeah, that's it. I was listening to both Tales Of Ordinary Madness and Live At Bonneroo. Both CDs highlight Warren's many talents: music composer, lyric writer, guitarist, arranger, singer, producer, etc. However, one of Warren's more under appreciated efforts at least IMHO is Phil Lesh and Friends-There And Back especially the tune "Night of A Thousand Stars." Angel, care to enlighten us about that one? The imagery is just incredible! I do believe Robert Hunter probably wrote the majority of the lyrics. Yet, Warren is listed as a co-writer (probably music.) I love that tune irregardless of the meaning if there is one.


Yeah, I think Warren wrote the music to Night of a Thousand Stars but my cd is out in the car so I can't check. I love that cd There and Back Again. It's funny becasue the two cd's I've taken on the roas with me (in the car is where I do most of my listening) this past summer are Tales of Ordinary Madness and There and Back Again. Two very interesting aspects to Warren's work. I must admit that I did not appreciate Bonarroo live. I have my reasons but I need to go to work very soon. Of course the other music I take on the road is Mule live. I've been listenting to the April and June tours over and over really becasue I think they show just how great this band is, how connected the musicians are to each other these days.

As for Warren's songwriting, I've always wanted to discuss his lyrics with people but besides Bottleneck, I haven't seen anyone even start the conversation.

One of my most favorite songs to decipher is Time To Confess. I think the song is about love and desire even though it seems like it is a story about a woman who killed her man.

As I say, I have to go so I can't elaborate but if this thread gets going, well maybe I will.

Angela






 
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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 09:00 AM
quote:
OK, lets start over: Kill the bickering thread and lets start something of interest: That is if you can.

quote:
If Dylan only wrote the lyrics to "Like A Rolling Stone," then he would have qualified himself in the upper echelon of rock music writers with that opus alone. However, I'm certainly not above discussing any of Warren's lyrics. I do think the man is a genius. Today when I was washing mom's .... er ... my car. Yeah, that's it. I was listening to both Tales Of Ordinary Madness and Live At Bonneroo. Both CDs highlight Warren's many talents: music composer, lyric writer, guitarist, arranger, singer, producer, etc. However, one of Warren's more under appreciated efforts at least IMHO is Phil Lesh and Friends-There And Back especially the tune "Night of A Thousand Stars." Angel, care to enlighten us about that one? The imagery is just incredible! I do believe Robert Hunter probably wrote the majority of the lyrics. Yet, Warren is listed as a co-writer (probably music.) I love that tune irregardless of the meaning if there is one.


Yeah, I think Warren wrote the music to Night of a Thousand Stars but my cd is out in the car so I can't check. I love that cd There and Back Again. It's funny becasue the two cd's I've taken on the roas with me (in the car is where I do most of my listening) this past summer are Tales of Ordinary Madness and There and Back Again. Two very interesting aspects to Warren's work. I must admit that I did not appreciate Bonarroo live. I have my reasons but I need to go to work very soon. Of course the other music I take on the road is Mule live. I've been listenting to the April and June tours over and over really becasue I think they show just how great this band is, how connected the musicians are to each other these days.

As for Warren's songwriting, I've always wanted to discuss his lyrics with people but besides Bottleneck, I haven't seen anyone even start the conversation.

One of my most favorite songs to decipher is Time To Confess. I think the song is about love and desire even though it seems like it is a story about a woman who killed her man.

As I say, I have to go so I can't elaborate but if this thread gets going, well maybe I will.

Angela

Angela,

I agree that Warren is indeed, a genius! I love "Time to confess." One thing I appreciate and respect about Warren is his versatility. He can write flat out balls to the wall rockers, and then turn around and write a sweet tender little gem like "Time to Confess." Oh, and then sing and play it with heart and soul!







 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 09:33 AM
quote:
I must admit that I did not appreciate Bonarroo live.








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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 10:02 AM
Angela, I liked Live At Bonneroo because for the simple fact that you get the chance to see if Warren's music or talent can hold your attention stripped and .... I think it unequivically does. In all likelyhood this is the way these songs originally sounded when they were first written. It also reminds me of that time when long ago I was exposed to live music. It wasn't some rock concert, but ironically some dude sitting around a campfire with a guitar and yes I believe we sang "Kum Ba Ya." As I grew older whenever there was someone playing I was always there. Eventually I had to try myself and to this day you'll find me if ever I have the time strumming on an a cheap acoustic. Ahhh! The simple things. Anyway .......

It seems Warren's upbringing was no different from mine. I love the way he pays tribute to Ray Sisk, one of the countless guys (or girls) that were mentors to so many of us with their playing. Also the (new?) tune "Forevermore" is very cool with it's killer hook. When somebody does something like this ( nothing but acoustic playing playing and singing i.e. the Boss's recent tour) they run the risk of coming off slightly egotistical, pompous, etc. In other words it could backfire on them. In the case of Live At Bonneroo I know several people who were borderline ABB, Mule, Haynes fans who went out and purchased the CD after I turned them on to it because they liked it so much.

Enough rambling. Back to "Night of a Thousand Stars." I believe I read somewhere that the impetus to the song was that TV show a while back appropriately named "Night of a Thousand Stars." I believe they were rasiing money for charity and something about the title struck Hunter. Anyway I love the line:

"Lion and Tiger on the wall.
In between the head of a saint named Archibald."

I think that is great imagery! To me Lion and Tiger were Jerry's custom made guitars. I believe he had one named Tiger. The whole song is a creative writing masterpiece. Plus the music especially the little snippet of ABB harmonies between Warren and Jimmy during the short solo is just great. Just perfect. The song makes me feel good and that is what good can and should do.

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 10:12 AM
quote:

"Lion and Tiger on the wall.
In between the head of a saint named Archibald."



forgive the correction...but its:

"tiger and a lion hanging on the wall
between the head of a saint and a bocce ball"

no **** in' clue if it means anything either way.

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 11:11 AM
Too funny!!! LMAOROTF!!! Can't even get nonsense lyrics right!

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 11:20 AM
quote:
Too funny!!! LMAOROTF!!! Can't even get nonsense lyrics right!


lol...i only really know it because its in the liner notes.


Theres a line earlier in the song about a Jehosephat's daughter, that the first time I heard it, it sounded like Warren sang "a Joseph named Stalin"

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 11:37 AM
Does anyone know if he ever preformed "If Heartaches Were Nickels" with any band. On a Joe Bonamassa CD I have, it said he wrote it. It is a great blues song, and Gregg plays keyboards on the Joe version.

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 11:41 AM
What does all the cool imagery mean Skerrick? Is it just nonsense? I know that Paul McCartney during his Wings period most of the seemingly nonsesnse songs like "Jet" were about his various dogs. "Martha My Dear" was about a sheepdog of his. Of course massive quantities of "killer bud" certainly helped write that stuff. Perhaps it takes the same to decipher. Then of course I always forget what I was talking about. Lol! I thought Hunter gave up the trips. Maybe he has been on so many that he has recall. Lol! You know it was said that Jerry had been on more than a thousand acid trips! Incredible but certainly not from an envious standpoint. Still think that "Night of a Thousand Stars" is a (stream of consciousness?) creative writing masterpiece!

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 01:08 PM
i got no idea what it means, but its pretty cool imagery....honestly, it seems to me like a road trip...all your old crap in the backseat, looking up at the stars, on your way to see all kinds of weird sights.

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 04:27 PM
quote:
quote:
I must admit that I did not appreciate Bonarroo live.








BLASPHEMY !!!!!!!!!!


I love that CD!! He can do a better show as far as one with solos, but I don't think he knew what to expect so he held back a little. He is by far the most versatile performer and artist around. Angela, you have all the shows. I stick with Mule Tracks primarily but will d/l a show now and then for trading purposes. The Burlington and NO La shows were amazing!!

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 05:55 PM
This song is one of the best songs Warren's written in my opinion (both music and lyrics). It is pretty clear that he is telling a story about a person (or a player) who is unable to be emotionally present in relationships, a person who cannot be sincere in his (or her) relationships, but like the ricochet, the distancing and disassociation has hurt his heart the most. To me Warren's use of images in this song are particularly strong.

Fallen Down
by Warren Haynes

Bigelow the gigolo had no where else to go
His sad eyes had seen it all
Scarred and lonely, tough as nails
Open your heart when all else fails
Wear the veil and the trojan horse smile

Looking back on yesteryear
Seems like, maybe, you missed your calling
But hindsight is very clear when loneliness is falling

And you have fallen down, down from the heavens
Stuck out in the desert
Amazing grace - such a lonely place
For heroes like you and me
Fallen down, just like a shooting star
With no fallen angel standing by
To carry you away

Target practice with other people’s lives
Hit a few right between the eyes
But, most of the time, you were wounded by the ricochet
You say “play to win, boys, never play to lose
Long as your're playing, boy, you’re bullet-proof”
But think about it - you’re bleeding to death anyway

And you have fallen down, down from the heavens
Stuck out in the desert
Amazing grace - such a lonely place
For heroes like you and me
Fallen down, just like a shooting star
With no fallen angel standing by

Angel of mercy, take pity on a fool
That spent a lifetime wondering
What Napoleon would do
If he were in your shoes

Rich, without pleasure - respected without love
Drinking poison from a golden cup
While anger, brother of fear, creeps like a knife into your heart

Looking back on yesteryear
Seems like, maybe, you missed your calling
But hindsight is very clear when loneliness is falling
And destiny’s through (still) calling

And you have fallen down - fallen down
Amazing grace - it’s such a lonely place
Oh yes it is
Fallen down
Fallen down

Fallen down
Fallen down
Fallen down
Fallen down



 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 06:53 PM
Phil Lesh and Friends..hmm? I think I need to drink some more bong water first!!

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 07:10 PM
Angela, "Fallen Down" while having some good lyrics is not one of my fave Mule tunes for the simple fact that the melody line especially the chorus is a trifle annoying. There are some Mule songs that are ploding in a Sabbath kind of way that I'm not fond of either. To be honest Live Before Insanity is probably my least favorite Mule CD although there are some great songs. To me it seemed like WH may have been running out of ideas and threw together some odds and sods. Some of the tunes seem to be a lot of unrelated riffs scotch taped together. I know this sounds a little harsh, but Dose was/is their masterpiece at least to me. And LBI was a let down.

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 07:48 PM
quote:
One of my most favorite songs to decipher is Time To Confess. I think the song is about love and desire even though it seems like it is a story about a woman who killed her man.



Time to Confess is one of my favorites as well, though my interpretation is quite different. Love and desire? I don't see it. At least not in the traditional sense. More like passionate forbidden affair. I could elaborate, but won't. Killed him? Emotionally maybe. He wants the truth out of her, her 'game is up' and he's letting her know. He's not buying her stories or sad looks. He's got the upper hand and showing it.

quote:

He can write flat out balls to the wall rockers, and then turn around and write a sweet tender little gem like "Time to Confess."
quote:


A sweet and tender gem?! I'm not seeing that one either, but that's ok. It's more like a threat. His way of telling her the way things are going to be.

Of course that's the beauty of music and lyrics, they mean different things to different people. Where one person sees a sweet and tender gem, another sees something dark and sinister. It's all in what the words and sounds mean to the individual, even though it may have meant something else entirely to the song writer. No point in arguing who's right and who's wrong, people will still interpret a song in their own way.

We're all right.
Peace

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 08:38 PM
I've always been a BIG "Dose" fan myself. If The Mule puts out 20 more albums in their history, I will always treasure "Dose" more than any. That Disc just hit me hard in all the right places - lyrically, musically and spiritually. I swear I wore that sucker out when it was released - I simply just couldn't get enough of that great collection of songs. "I Shall Return" has brought me to tears more than once and a few songs make you want to run up a mountain or press the gas pedal a little harder. "Dose" is what power trio music is all about - they took one guitar, a bass and drums about as far as humanly possible...
 
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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 09:13 PM
Hot dang!!! Eddie "My Man" P.!!! Somebody mark this down. We completely agree on something! Well spoke Brother.

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 09:19 PM
Hey Eddie I know this ain't Warren's lyrics but I love that last harmony guitar part on the tune "Effigy" off Deep End (Vol. 1 ?) I love to put it on, crank it and drive fast in my car.

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 09:34 PM
Adorable song said: Time to Confess is one of my favorites as well, though my interpretation is quite different. Love and desire? I don't see it. At least not in the traditional sense. More like a passionate forbidden affair. I could elaborate, but won't. Killed him? Emotionally maybe. He wants the truth out of her, her 'game is up' and he's letting her know. He's not buying her stories or sad looks. He's got the upper hand and showing it.

A sweet and tender gem?! I'm not seeing that one either, but that's ok. It's more like a threat. His way of telling her the way things are going to be. Of course that's the beauty of music and lyrics, they mean different things to different people. Where one person sees a sweet and tender gem, another sees something dark and sinister. It's all in what the words and sounds mean to the individual, even though it may have meant something else entirely to the song writer. No point in arguing who's right and who's wrong, people will still interpret a song in their own way. We're all right. Peace"

My response:
Yes, I agree this is about having an interesting conversation, not about right or wrong.

I agree with you a lot about your interpretation of this song. I totally agree it is about a dark and passionate affair, but it is also about love and desire. Love and desire play a key role in this song because the person admits he does not have the upper hand. Why? Because he loves and desires her.

He may be trying to have the upper hand, but he is under her spell. He is going to be the next person who gets involved with her. She may have "killed" her previous lover (symbolic for hurt beyond repair) but he is the next person who will love her.

"You won't see no bright lights burning
But you'll feel the heat
This is how it happens
When strangers turn to lovers turn to enemies"

Love sometimes happens this way: love sometimes sours and lovers turn into enemies. But he is going to take a chance:

"You better pray for a miracle
You better pray this will never end
I, myself, can play the victim
I'll do whatever the part demands
You saw me watching you
You had time to run"

I think what he is seeking is an answer: Is she is in love with him too?

[Edited on 8/4/2005 by Angelemerald]

 

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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 09:38 PM
quote:
Hot dang!!! Eddie "My Man" P.!!! Somebody mark this down. We completely agree on something! Well spoke Brother.

Holy crap C' amazin is right we actually AGREE - theres a first time for everything I guess...

Yeah, I just looooove "Dose"...





[Edited on 8/4/2005 by EddieP]

 
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  posted on 8/3/2005 at 10:07 PM
http://repertoire.bmi.com/writer.asp?page=1&blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=Tru e&blnArtist=True&fromrow=1&torow=25&affiliation=BMI&cae=356306172&keyID=150 383&keyname=HAYNES%20WARREN%20DALE&querytype=WriterID


This is a link to Warren's writing credits. I think the list is quite impressive.


[Edited on 8/4/2005 by Angelemerald]

 

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  posted on 8/4/2005 at 07:56 AM
quote:
http://repertoire.bmi.com/writer.asp?page=1&blnWriter=True&blnPublish er=True&blnArtist=True&fromrow=1&torow=25&affiliation=BMI&cae=356306172&key ID=150383&keyname=HAYNES%20WARREN%20DALE&querytype=WriterID


This is a link to Warren's writing credits. I think the list is quite impressive.

Indeed, quite impressive! I wonder how many zeroes are on Warren's annual Royalty check? That's probably quite impressive as well.


[Edited on 8/4/2005 by Angelemerald]

 

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  posted on 8/4/2005 at 08:06 AM
quote:
quote:
I must admit that I did not appreciate Bonarroo live.








BLASPHEMY !!!!!!!!!!


I don't know, man...I really didn't care for that album either. I mean, it's good and all, and Warren is certainly talented singing and writing and playing acoustic and it appears that he really enjoys it...but I just think (in my opinion) that it's not his strong suit.

There's hundreds of singer/songwriters out there that, when push comes to shove, I'd listen to before Warren on acoustic guitar. I like Warren's ability, but singer/songwriting isn't his best suit, in my opinion. And when I say singer/songwriter, I guess I'm talking about acoustic, "folk" music players. I just don't think Warren shines the brightest in that category, that's all...



[Edited on 8/4/2005 by Sandman]

 

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  posted on 8/4/2005 at 09:22 AM
Angela, thanks for posting that cool link. Also Chain, I'd be willing to bet that Warren probably recieves more royalities for one song on there than probably all the rest combined. Can you guess which one?

 

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  posted on 8/4/2005 at 09:51 AM
probably Drivin' Rain, since its on a video game.

either that, or the one he wrote for Garth Brooks.

 

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