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Author: Subject: Star Wars Reviews.... ***WARNING: spoilers within***

True Peach





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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 07:45 AM
This is a thread for reviews of the new star wars movie.... only read this if you want to hear spoiler content....

my review will be added in a few minutes....


OK... my review... bear in mind I'm on three hours of sleep... so ask any questions for clarification...

This movie for me was exactly what it needed to be... First, I think people need to understand it's place in the scheme of things...

When the first movie (Episode 4 - a new hope) was made, it was thought that it might be the only one... after it's success the following two (Episode 5 - empire strikes back & 6 - return of the jedi) were made to "complete" the story... even though this was, even from the original script, just the second half of the story... because of the size of the script it focused on the culmination of the story line.... we never got the "intro"....

The majority of fans agree that "Empire" is the strongest movie in the series... and most site the "down" aspects of it... luke's hand gets cut off/han gets frozen and taken away by bobo fett... And if the first 3 movies were a 3 chapter book, it would make perfect sense... Episode 4 introduced characters... Episode 5 put them in "the worst possible position"... episode 6 brings them out of it to triumph in the end...

In actuality, Episode 3 is the shifting point of the real story (whole story)... it is the "darkest" point in which the main charachters realize just how far they've been knocked down. They finally realize the depths of their situation... and this is exactly what this movie needed to do... and IMO, it came through perfectly... and it needs to be viewed from the standpoint... I'm tired of hearing people judge any of these movies as standalone stories... where they have been crafted somewhat to represent this idea, it is NOT 6 stories... just like Lord of the Ring is not 3 stories.... If you need that from a movie then your not going to be able to get over the fact.... 98% (or so) of all movies are standalone... we don't need more of those...

enough ranting....

btw... I love the plot in Episode 2, but the acting was horrid in many parts and the effects fell short for me... if you knew the whole story... you could see the emporer being in command of both armies - staging a war against each other, so as to stage his own rise to ultimate power... this would be like Bush being secretly being Osama bin Laden... I know thats a rough correlation, but good enough for this ficticious movie...

*** onto the movie itself***

The effects were pretty darn good... I was impressed, but still think they fell short of equaling Lord of the Rings.... mainly in the color depth protion (which may or may not have been what they were focusing on)... the fluidty and detail was amazing... but CGI charachters and backdrops definitley stand out compared to the live action portions... I'm being critical here (as is my nature), but they are very good... they just don't meld in as well as the CGI in LOTR's (IMO)....

The acting was much better in this movie... with only a few lines here or there that didn't quite work for me... and the love scenes, which are required for the story line, did work for me (unlike the last one)... dialogue was better, and they still kept some humor in it, which I've always enjoyed... I think as human nature, people like to interject silly commments or such into serious situations as a way of coping with stress in life...

Let me get this out of the way... the only part that didn't work for me was Amidala's death scene... which reminded me a lot of Anikens mothers death scene... Near the end of the movie Aniken does the strangle hold thing on Amidala.... and she collapses as Obi Wan confronts Aniken... but she is still alive... (I'll get to the fighting and the confrontations later)... Obi wan takes her back to civilization where droid medics inform him and (striking a blank with the name of the guy who raises leia - organa, right?... still tired ) that she has lost her will to live (after her watching ani turn to the dark side)... and that she's in fine health but they were losing her (at this point she's laying on the table unconcious behind them)... and if they want to save the babies (this is when they find out it's twins), they need to operate quickly... they jump to her concious and birthing the babies.. as each on comes out the droid holds the baby up for her and she says "luke"... and then "Leia".... (she's in much better condition then my ex-wife was during childbirth)... then she pretty much collapses and dies... as if her children wouldn't be enough for her to have the will to live????... she just gave up and died... within seconds after naming Leia...

besides that scene... I was happy with the rest of it....

I'll hit on a few points here....

They did a great job with the transformation of aniken... specifically in the emotional sense... they show Amidala and Obi Wan saying stuff that is correct, but from Anikens point of view (which has been skewed by Palpatine) makes him doubt the jedi order... I didn't think they could pull this off without a great "leap of faith" by fans... but I though they did a spectacular job with it.... you really can understand how a confused ani gets taken in by the dark side....

The fight scenes, which I heard people complain about being to many, were just right for me... unlike the 2nd matrix movie which I kept thinking "is this same fight sequence still going on?"... There were many... but this is war... and the story kept me from noticing any "waiting for them to be over"... they also had alot of limbs (arms/legs/heads) being cut off... which I personally like .... Aniken cuts Dooku's hands off (yes both of them) while "rescuing" palpatine in the beggining of the movie... and then doesn't want to kill dooku...but palpatine prods him on until he cuts dookus head off... just like when palpatine try's to get Luke to kill Vader... I love this tie in, which essentially shows palpatine having this repeating behavior (though this is the first instance) that really just serves to empower him at the cost of others....

Throughout the movie you see Ankiken being played by palpatine... the jedi council doesn't trust him (and given his behaviour, they are right not too)... palpatine uses this to twist anikens understanding of their intentions... he tells aniken that he is appointing him to be his personal liason with the council (which he has no right to do)... but the jedi council accepts it because they want Aniken to spy on palpatine to figure out what he's upto... which backfires, because it feeds into palpatine's insinuations that the jedi order want to take control of the senate... they let Aniken onto the jedi council (to act as liason) but deny him the title of "Master jedi"... which pisses him off... though when palpatine finally reviels himself to aniken, aniken at first chooses to turn him in... and mace windu and a few others come to arrest palpatin (while aniken is supposed to remain int the jedi chambers)... long story short palpatin takes them all out except windu, who he fights with.... (aniken had been told...

BEIL... beil organ... that was leia's father's name (well the guy that raised her)...

... aniken had been told by palpatine of a sith legend that one master had figured out how to cheat death by controlling nuetrinos (that which the jedi communicates with to control the force).... and aniken has had premonitions of amidala dying in childbirth.... palpatine had pretty much told aniken he could teach him how to save her... so right before mace kills palpatine (which he would have accomplished), aniken interferes and windu dies.... this is anikens turning point... and also when palpatine is disfigured (make his face look withered as in the origianl movies)....

I'm tired enough right now that I'm losing track of everything I wanted to say.... a few last things and then I'll catch the rest in discussion....

Yoda went to help defend the wookie home world (Kyshak - spelling?)... and when he finally leaves there after almost being killed, he is escroted by two wookies... as he says his goodbyes to these friends he calls one chewbacca... which I could have done without... but the tie ins are normally good for movie goers....

They never explained why Obiwan and yoda both disappeared when they died... unlike all the others.... though at the end yoda reveils to obiwan that quigon has fiigured out how to communicate with those still living... which we saw as the "ghosts" of old jedis appearing in the original movies... this was apparently the first instance of this...

at the end, yoda and obiwan are the only jedi's left... all the others had been betrayed... palpatine gave a command that turned the clone troops against the jedi, who wiped them out... except fot those in the hall of the jedi... which aniken killed (including the younglings), which they show very quickly as aniken walked in and the younglings ask him for help... then he cuts them down.... (DAMN that's cold).....

aniken gets challenged by obiwan in the end... and I knew there had to be some catch here...as obiwan would be no real match for aniken in lightsaber skills.... (they make a comment that aniken has also doubled his abilities in the force since the last movie).... it's a good battle... they fight on (can't remember the worlds name) above fields of lava... so they are in very precarious positions with lava flying all over... eventually obiwan gets off a floating platfrom to some rocks slightly above aniken... he tells aniken to not try to attack as he has the "higher ground" and aniken in his pride jumps um over obiwan and obiwan cuts both his legs off and his remaining good arm... this worked for me because his pride and hasty actions bit him in the a$$... which is very realistic... it happens very fast... but he should have known better and in his anger he thought obiwan couldn't match him... apparently he wasn't thinking clearly.... they conclude this scene by aniken, pretty much limbless, sliding down a slope near some lava... which catches his clothes on fire and burns him up real bad... he uses his first robotic arm/hand (which is all he has left) to hold himself from sliding all the way into the lava... I love the effects in this part.... I'm not sure why obiwan didn't finish him off, except maybe he thought he was done for and it was hard to fight him since he had pretty much raised aniken.... but we all know how that comes back in the the following installments...

I'm sure there are other things I wanted to say... but my brain isn't working well right now... so please comment... and I expect some will disagree with me, which I always invite.... let's discuss this (for those that are interested)... and I'll probably recalll more of what I wnated to say.... If I wasn't clear on anything, point it out and I'll clarify or we can discuss different opinions...

PLEASE NO FLAMING EACH OTHER IN THIS THREAD... we can all disagree, which is just fine....

Love to all, and ultimately I hope you all enjoy the movie... I'm gonna go again this weekend and take my kids....

[Edited on 5/19/2005 by rosshmusic]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 10:54 AM
^^^ just bumping this since editing your post doesn't ^^^

btw... if I didn't mention it... this was my personal fav of all 6....

[Edited on 5/19/2005 by rosshmusic]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 11:41 AM
Thanks for that review. Im still going to see it even though I read your spoilers
 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 12:30 PM
May the force be with you in your day

I will see this in about a week i guess

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 12:36 PM
Wow, that was a very in depth review. Mine will not be that involved.LOL!!

Saw the movie last night and have always been a big fan of the franchise. The movie had everything you would have wanted to see as far as Anakin going over to the dark side. Those scenes with palpatine and Anakin were great for me as he played the younger Anakin like a fiddle. Drawing him closer and closer to the dark side until he finally had him, making him think he needed to embrace the dark side to save Padme. The action was non stop it seemed with a lot of saber jousting which I love. The dark tone this movie had was very welcome as compared to the first 2. The first episode in my opinion is almost unwatchable. Anyway, in my opinion it did what it had to do to satisfy the die hard fans which I am included. I have to say although better in the area of dialogue, there were times in the movie I was almost wincing at the back and forth with Anakin and Padme. And as far as the acting being better, I think its more like Lucas finally hit a stride in directing in this latest movie. I would have liked maybe just a few more lines from darth Vader. I mean I think he said 3 lines!!! Not a bad day of work for james Earl Jones.LOL!!

After its all said and done, i liked this last installment because it finally ties it all together and that was what everyone was waiting for al these yrs. For teh casual fan, they will like the special effects which are great and enjoy the story but its very hard to get past some the of very bad scenes when the action slows down with Padme and Anakin. I think its a good thing that this is the last episode because lucas will go out with his best movie of the prequels by far and I think after the first 2 ,, thats all we could ask from him. I rank this one 3rd behind Empire and Episode 4.

maybe its because I am older but its just not the same for me as the original 2. I enjoyed the movie and thanks George Lucas for taking me to that Galaxy far far away for the last 20 + yrs. Its been a great ride.

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 01:44 PM
i saw it last night, i've never been a huge star wars fan but definitely do enjoy the movies, although i don't know them nearly well enough. but my short review would be that i really liked it, the story seemed to all clearly tie in very well. the acting between anakin and padme was pretty bad at points, but definitely better than the other movie. the one complaint with the plot that my friends and i had was that while it clearly built up anakin's turn to the dark side, when it actually happened it was way too sudden. he went from killing mace windu and saying "oh my god what have i done" to bowing down to palpatin and becoming darth vader within an instant. that one part was a little too fast. but it was definitely an extremely good movie, i was very entertained and it made me want to watch the original three again and get to know the movies better.

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 02:49 PM
quote:
the one complaint with the plot that my friends and i had was that while it clearly built up anakin's turn to the dark side, when it actually happened it was way too sudden. he went from killing mace windu and saying "oh my god what have i done" to bowing down to palpatin and becoming darth vader within an instant. that one part was a little too fast.

that struck me at first... but I reasoned it out a little bit...

they had been showing him being conflicted quite a bit before that... with the comments from Amidala and Obiwan VS the comments from Palpatine.... then when he blocked mace's strike (just trying to stop him from killing him so he could "help" him save padme - which he yelled out "I need him") palpatine is the one who killed him by using the force lightning and throwing him out the window... which essentially made Anakin an accessory to murder of a jedi counsel member while consorting with a sith lord... there's really no turning back at that point...

I new that would be a big focal point of the movie going in... and I was amazed to see how much of the confliction they showed leading up to it... which is really all that saved that for me... but I will say it's not as though they couldn't have done it better...

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 03:03 PM
Yes I had the same feeling as well. The movie was pretty long though and any longer may have lost some people. Not me, I could have watched that process all night.LOL!!!

It was a pretty quick turn from explaining how killing Palpatine is aganst the jedi order and the next thing you know he is slaying Younglings but you only have so long to tell story

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 03:47 PM
Ok, my last little rant I promise. I just want to know ifi anyone else feels the same way.

General Grievious was a terrible character. A droid leader who coughed like he had lung cancer and somehow was trained as a jedi????? Ughhhh!! I hated his character and I thought way too much time was made in catching him instead of concentrating more on Anakins decline. I think they could have done much better adding scenes of Anakin sliding further deeper to the dark side and less of chasing Grievious who after all the hoopla SPOILER ALERT**** gets killed by Obi Wan shooting him with a gun!

Still liked the movie

Anyone else feel that this character was weak??

I think I am officially done talking about this..LOL!!!

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 04:02 PM
most definitely... weak ...

lose the cough.... stupidest thing for a droid... I wondered if there was something we weren't aware of... like he was a being in a suit kinda like vader... droid body with a weezened old frog in the middle... hehe... (kinda looked that way when you saw the close up of his eye)... maybe he was one of the flying creatures from the planet where the droid army was manufactured, but injured to the point he needed the enviornment suit.... but the way they left him was dissappointing... I didn't mind them going after him, but as you point out, if they were gonna leave it there they might as well have spent the time with more of Anakin's trasnformation...

...his training wasn't in the jedi force arts... just in use of lightsabers... which, I could handle...

you know... most movies never get picked apart like this either, but these have a lot to live up to so theres no way around it...

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 04:04 PM
I've seen most of them enough times that I can point out a hundred things they messed up... like in episode 2 where Obiwan climbs out of his spacecraft (when he's just finding out about the droid army) and when his hand hits the ship it has a hollow sound to it... c'mon this is a spaceship, it would built much more solid then that...

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 08:15 PM
Just got back. The movie was exactly what I thought it would be, no more, no less.

Think about it: 1, 2, __ , 4, 5, 6. You don't have a lot of options as to what you can put in the blank. Still, I'm a fan of the franchise, and this installment did me just fine.

Yeah. No chemistry between Padme and Anakin at all. I thought that was a big problem in the transition from 1 to 2, where first he's a little kid, then he's her peer and they're in love. It was bad in 2 and didn't improve in 3.

I did like the way they played the balancing forces. Padme nervous and worried while Anakin was waiting impatiently in the council chamber, Vader's birth (so to speak) and the twins' birth, Master and Apprentice overseeing the construction of the Death Star while the kids are stashed away. I like that, and the light saber battles, of course.

So Greivous was partly organic? That's how it seemed to me.

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:16 PM
quote:
They never explained why Obiwan and yoda both disappeared when they died... [Edited on 5/19/2005 by rosshmusic]


I read the books, and my opinion is that I think they were trying to loosely explain that the disappearance is due to their learning how to manipulate the force and live "eternally" as Qui-Gon teaches Yoda at the end of Episode III... In the book this is much more prominent. I think had Liam Neeson done a cameo in the movie, this would have been explained better.

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:20 PM
quote:
quote:
They never explained why Obiwan and yoda both disappeared when they died... [Edited on 5/19/2005 by rosshmusic]


I read the books, and my opinion is that I think they were trying to loosely explain that the disappearance is due to their learning how to manipulate the force and live "eternally" as Qui-Gon teaches Yoda at the end of Episode III... In the book this is much more prominent. I think had Liam Neeson done a cameo in the movie, this would have been explained better.
I didn't read them... but my buddy told me approx the same thing... I too wish the had made a better example as the primary outlet for this story is the movie... not the books... (which is backwards from most, but still the case in this circumstance)...

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:34 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
They never explained why Obiwan and yoda both disappeared when they died... [Edited on 5/19/2005 by rosshmusic]


I read the books, and my opinion is that I think they were trying to loosely explain that the disappearance is due to their learning how to manipulate the force and live "eternally" as Qui-Gon teaches Yoda at the end of Episode III... In the book this is much more prominent. I think had Liam Neeson done a cameo in the movie, this would have been explained better.
I didn't read them... but my buddy told me approx the same thing... I too wish the had made a better example as the primary outlet for this story is the movie... not the books... (which is backwards from most, but still the case in this circumstance)...


I had read the book twice before I saw the movie. (Two different versions, yes I'm a total dork) and my only dissapointment in the movie was that that exact sequence wasn't explained well enough. But that was only a slight complaint. Whereas the other movies I had lots of complaints between the books and the movies. There were some great parts to both PHANTOM MENACE & ATTACK OF THE CLONES that just didn't make the movie. But then again, I'm not one to say too much, because I just have such a passion for the whole story. Yes, all six of them. I'm the only person in my age group, other than my wife, that I know who liked the first 2 episodes. - I don't have the usual complaints most people do. Jar Jar was annoying but didn't really bother me. He was no different than what the Ewoks were to me in Return of the Jedi. Kids stuff. - The acting doesn't bother me at all either. (Except the little kid who played Anakin in the first movie.) I am always surprised to hear how much people didn't like the acting between Padme and Anakin. But that's because I blame George Lucas for the acting. The way it's portrayed is with the exact cheesiness that it is written in the books, if not better. I think George Lucas has a flair for the dramatic and the cliche. And I say that, because if you REALLY watch the original trilogy as an adult, you can see tons of that same style in the acting there. (example: "I only wish, Ben were here" from A NEW HOPE). It's just that slightly unreleastic dramatic vibe throughout. - However, as I mentioned before I'm the wrong person to ask. Maybe it all does suck!!! hee hee. I don't care, I still love it!

But in the end, I definitely felt this was the best of the prequels and I think they did an extraordinary job of tying up loose ends...

On the subject of Anakin's turn being too sudden. That was something I was afraid would happen in the movie, after seeing the book. Throughout the movie, Anakin is torn and going back and forth through his emotions, but since these are thought processes, it's not as apparent on screen. If you really study it, at the beginning of the movie when he is battling with Count Dooku, he knows he shouldn't kill him, but does anyway. He thinks to himself "I will never brake the Jedi code again". So it really is a struggle throughout the movie... The other thing is that Palpatine has mislead him in so many ways. He gets because he makes him believe that he has the power to save Padme, but in reality all the mistrust he's thrown to Anakin about the Jedi counsel has really helped too. Anakin is not really sure if the Jedi aren't trying to take power. And once he kills Mace Windu, he knows there is no going back, which is why he is so quick to committ to the Sith. He also FIRMLY belives that he is so powerful that he will overthrow Palpatine and he and Padme will rule the galaxy, exactly as he feels later with his son Luke.

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:35 PM
quote:
So Greivous was partly organic? That's how it seemed to me.

that was what I was thinking (I think I might even have posted that above )...

...another thing... Obiwan is hands down the best actor in the movies....

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:36 PM
I'm a casual fan.


I loved the movie. I gotta go back and watch it again to see if I like it better than Episode 5. Thank god Jar Jar had a 1/2 of a sentence in the entire movie.


PS- The latino dude who was with Obi Won and gave him his lite saber---- That looked like Jango Fett... am I right?

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:39 PM
quote:
quote:
So Greivous was partly organic? That's how it seemed to me.

that was what I was thinking (I think I might even have posted that above )...

...another thing... Obiwan is hands down the best actor in the movies....


General Grevious was a living being (an alien) who was dying of something like what cancer is in our universe. (Like how I talk about this as if it were real?) Anyway, he was a great warrior but was dying. The sith offered him an opportunity to live forever with the ability to continue being a great warrior, by offering him a droid body with a living mind. Or something like that.

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:40 PM
quote:
I'm a casual fan.


I loved the movie. I gotta go back and watch it again to see if I like it better than Episode 5. Thank god Jar Jar had a 1/2 of a sentence in the entire movie.


PS- The latino dude who was with Obi Won and gave him his lite saber---- That looked like Jango Fett... am I right?


Well, yes, it was a clone of Jango Fett.

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:41 PM
quote:
quote:
I'm a casual fan.


I loved the movie. I gotta go back and watch it again to see if I like it better than Episode 5. Thank god Jar Jar had a 1/2 of a sentence in the entire movie.


PS- The latino dude who was with Obi Won and gave him his lite saber---- That looked like Jango Fett... am I right?


Well, yes, it was a clone of Jango Fett.



Damn, I'm dumb.

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:42 PM
quote:
I'm a casual fan.


I loved the movie. I gotta go back and watch it again to see if I like it better than Episode 5. Thank god Jar Jar had a 1/2 of a sentence in the entire movie.


PS- The latino dude who was with Obi Won and gave him his lite saber---- That looked like Jango Fett... am I right?



Jango Fett was killed in Episode 2. Remember teh Clone army were all modeled after him so they all look like him.

 

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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:44 PM
Haven't seen the latest yet, but after seeing the first two prequels, I can't help but complain about the chemistry of the core charcters, or the lack of. The charcter development for this trilogy has been downright awful. I can't root for any of them- yeah, it was cool seeing Yoda fighting....to an extent. Maybe the young, Obi Wan as well.....

And they ruined Boba Fett for me in the second one-they bring him back as a lame kid....

Maybe the reason Anakin became Vader was b/c the people around him were very lame? No Solo, Chewie, R2(let's face it, the droids were crucial to the identity of the original trilogy-these guys have been a non-factor).....and watch out for Lando when he has a cold Colt45 with a bunch of lady friends.....

I remember seeing Empire as a kid, & just being attached to the core group of Luke, Han, Chewie, Leia, & the droids. From the dialog to the acting, the prequels have failed to deliver IMHO. And it had such promise, in explaining how Anakin became Vader. The modern technology lacks the "spirit" of what made the special effects so special 28 years ago.

Have any of you seen what Lucas did with the dvd trilogy? I am glad this man isn't a history professor, b/c he is a severe revisionist.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/19/2005 at 09:49 PM
*PS- The latino dude who was with Obi Won and gave him his lite saber---- That looked like Jango Fett... am I right?*

It was the Los Lonley Boys. Now you know why they had to back out on the ABB tour-they were in a galaxy far, far away.

 

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  posted on 5/20/2005 at 07:47 AM
I thought all of the clones were copies of Chakotay from ST Voyager? Am I wrong in this?

A few of the little contrivances annoyed me as well. Already mentioned: "Oh, btw, Qui-Gon has learned how to speak from beyond the grave, stay tuned for more on that - pretty soon we'll all be doing it."

How about, "Oh yeah, wipe this droid's memory - if everybody knew what he knows, we wouldn't need another three movies to work it out."

I'm not up on all of the nuances of Blue Blood society, but could somebody tell me how the adopted daughter of a rebel senator from a broken republic becomes a princess?


 

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  posted on 5/20/2005 at 08:21 AM
quote:
I'm not up on all of the nuances of Blue Blood society, but could somebody tell me how the adopted daughter of a rebel senator from a broken republic becomes a princess?

they pretend she is their daughter (from what I always understood)... that way know one could think that she could be vaders (in the case they were looking for her)....

and they were leaders of the planet... she was a princess of the planet... not of the republic...

...can any of you who read the books, clear this up a little more....

 

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