Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread >Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Does BMI and ASCAP charge you to play songs in the clubs?

Zen Peach





Posts: 19435
(19449 all sites)
Registered: 6/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/11/2005 at 06:49 PM
quote:
PAGE ONE -- Girl Scouts Change Their Tunes
Licensing order restricts use of favorite songs
- Thaai Walker, Kevin Fagan, Chronicle Staff Writers
Friday, August 23, 1996


Girl Scouts were sad, callers were mad, and even one of Woody Guthrie's old singing pals was incredulous yesterday at a national songwriting group's order apparently blocking scouts from singing campfire songs without paying copyright fees.

But now the group seems to be backing down.

Officials at the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers, which issued the order earlier this summer, said their phones at New York headquarters were ringing off the hook. Everyone wanted to know why anyone would want to pick on the Girl Scouts, of all groups.

``It's been a very long day,'' the society's licensing Vice President Vincent Candilora admitted. ``We got a lot of heat. We got a big black eye from this.''

He said the letter the society sent out wasn't necessarily meant to stop Girl Scouts from singing songs around the campfire and that society managers are now huddling to figure out how to handle the growing scandal. They plan to meet with national Girl Scout leaders next week.

But that hasn't made any difference yet to the San Francisco Bay Girl Scouts Council. They're still not letting anything copyrighted break out at their sing- alongs, from ``This Land is Your Land'' to ``God Bless America'' -- and scout leaders say things will stay that way until they hear differently from the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers.

``We have a letter from ASCAP telling us we should get a license to sing songs,'' Nancy Berg, executive director of the council, said yesterday. ``I think we were clear about what the statement was in the beginning and I suspect the pressure has something to do with this.''

Berg and other council leaders said Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. was told last spring that it had to pay a license fee to use any of the 4 million copyrighted songs written or published by members of the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers.

The fee is intended to protect artists from being ripped off by others doing covers of their tunes in public.

That apparently meant even songs such as ``Happy Birthday'' were off limits to camp organizations, including the Girl Scouts, unless they forked out some cash.

If that proves to truly be what the society means, ``it's kind of funny and ludicrous really,'' said Ronnie Gilbert, who as a founding member of the legendary folk group the Weavers jammed often with Woody Guthrie, the man who wrote ``This Land is Your Land.''

``I think this thing is a red herring for something else, it has to be,'' said Gilbert, who lives in Berkeley. ``Woody was a very practical man about being paid for his music, but I don't think he'd want Girl Scouts to not sing his songs.''

Yesterday, Girl Scout offices across the country were swamped with calls. Good Morning America, WABC radio in New York, Oprah -- everyone wanted to know how the Girl Scouts were faring without their favorite songs, said Janine Carlson, communications director for the Bay council. Comedy Central even called.

The controversy all started when word spilled out in a news story this week that girls at the Diablo Day Camp in Lafayette were spending songless days at the summer camp because of the copyright fee requirement.

Carlson said earlier this year that the National Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. sent a nonbinding advisory to its chapters across the country that they not pay the fees and keep on singing. But the American Camping Association, which accredits campgrounds, recommended that the scouts cough up the dough, Carlson said.

For the Bay Area council, funding shortages this year made it hard to pay any copyright fees, which it estimated would cost $10,000 just for the summer to cover all 20 of its chapters, Carlson said. So the kids clammed up.

``With a possible $5,000 fine and six days in jail, we decided to play it safe,'' she said.

The campers were disappointed and confused.

Sara Placas, 14, said the girls are now reduced to singing more obscure songs like ``Bow-legged Chicken'' and ``Herman the Worm.'' Those get sung all day long, she lamented.

Amy Zsenai, 10, says she's just ``a little mad'' that she can't sing her favorite song, ``Tom the Toad,'' anymore. ``We're having fun but not as much fun,'' she said.

Candilora of the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers said his organization isn't backing down -- the story got twisted somehow.

The federal Copyright Act, which allows composers and music publishers to get royalty payments for any public performances of their copyrighted material, has existed since 1909. Airlines, hotels, companies that torture phone customers with Muzak -- are all required to pay to play any songs covered by the law.

Camps are in somewhat murky territory, Candilora said.

``If the camp is providing music entertainment and they have background music, certainly if they have dancing and are charging money, then it's no different than a resort establishment and, yes, they would have to pay,'' he said. ``But if it's a small camp and the only music is camp singing around the campfire, then I don't think that's something ASCAP is going to pursue.''


Page A - 1
URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1996/08/23/MN 14140.DTL





quote:
A local restaurant said that $900 is due to a performing rights organization before the Bay Area Bluegrass Association can play as they have been for eight years.
The question now, to use a Bill Monroe song, is "Will the Circle Be Unbroken?"
After the smokey fragrance of burgers and grilled salmon, visitors of Sweet Mesquite are drawn to the down-home flavor of bluegrass.
BMI, an organization which represents the copyrights of songwriters, notified the popular eatery it would have to be paid before any bluegrass was played. Some of its members' copyrights could have been infringed upon during the informal jam, a representative said in a telephone conversation with the restaurant manager.
Stand-up bass player Stan Jones was floored when discovered that BMI wanted the annual payment. He said he found out about the request from BMI when he ordered his burger.
"The whole thing sounds silly," said Jones, the past president of the Bay Area Bluegrass Association.
"I know they want to take care of the songwriters but I guess we'll have to see (the lawyers) and wait."
Jones said he'll consult with legal counsel through his organization to determine their next steps.
Restaurant manager Mark Lovett said that he allowed the musicians to play, not as a money-making operation, but as "something to try and do for the community."
No purchases are required for the pickers or fans of bluegrass, he said.
"I don't know how it got to (BMI's) attention," said Lovett.
"It's not that we're charging cover or they're playing Top 40 songs."
Barbara Monroe, who plays the hammer dulcimer, said that the group started out informally with about 10 people and has grown to almost 40 people. On a recent Tuesday night, about 25 people listened to the sweet sounds of X, Y, Z.
The songs played are mostly traditional and in the public domain, contends Monroe.
"Some may start and others may play along," she said.
"If not, someone'll take a break."
Ever vigilant is Jerry Bailey, a BMI spokesman, who said his organization represents almost half of all copyright owners in bluegrass.
Bailey said via telephone in Nashville that it's possible that it could be in the public domain but his organization represents copyrights that go back as far as 75 years.
"It's like flipping a coin; half of the time it's going to be a BMI song," he said.
"It might be a bit naive to think that most of it is in the public domain."
Bailey, while he could not address the specifics of the dispute, said that anything music played "outside of friends and family" is subject to copyright enforcement. Karaoke, ring tones, and music heard while placed on telephone hold belongs to someone and U.S. trademark law allows enforcement so the copyright owners to get paid.
"What we do is represent the small business owners of composers and songwriters who struggle to make a living," said Bailey.
While there are high earners and low earners, many BMI songwriters do not see revenue over the life of their careers, said Bailey. BMI makes sure they get paid when their music is used, he said.
About 85 percent of all license revenues goes to the songwriters and publishers.
"All we do is inform the business owner and make them aware of the responsibilities," said Bailey, whose organization has co-authored information along with the Better Business Bureau and the National Restaurant Association.
If something is brought to their attention, BMI sends letters to the businesses and may send a musical researcher.
The musical expert will go to the venue anonymously, listen to the music and document the titles of all the music performed. If BMI music ends up on the list, the organization will notify the business again and try to get compliance with a license.
If the two sides can't work it out, court is the last resort.
"We can go and use federal law but that's usually a rarity and a last resort," said Bailey.
For Monroe, her belief is that the music is for the good of the people.
"How many of these people would be out on a cold and rainy night?" she said.
"They drive in from Alvin, northwest Houston...a lot of people look forward to this."
Monroe recalls a regular attendee who used to play but can only listen now because of a medical condition. The gentleman listens intently and then tears well in his eyes.
"I wonder why he doesn't leave but now I know," Monroe said.
"This place is like therapy."



 

____________________

 
Visit User's Homepage
Replies:

Peach Head



Karma:
Posts: 192
(192 all sites)
Registered: 7/14/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/11/2005 at 07:56 PM
I played a club once where you were only able to play original songs because they didn't pay for any ascap or bmi fees.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13910
(15927 all sites)
Registered: 3/14/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/11/2005 at 08:00 PM
quote:
While there are high earners and low earners, many BMI songwriters do not see revenue over the life of their careers, said Bailey. BMI makes sure they get paid when their music is used, he said.
huh ?

 

____________________

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13859
(13913 all sites)
Registered: 7/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/11/2005 at 08:06 PM
"Now, suppose me and my boys here start playin' some of them songs without payin' any royalties? What are you gonna do about it? You're gonna look mighty funny tryin' to eat corn on the cob with no FU@KIN' TEETH!"

- The Blues Brothers .... sort of.

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13152
(14465 all sites)
Registered: 6/1/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 04:02 PM
Actually BMI and ASCAP require restaurants, clubs, and other venues to pay annual dues.

I manage a nightclub and we pay our dues every year. Places that carry a BMI/ASCAP license are supposed to display a sticker baring the BMI/ASCAP logo somewhere on the premises...usually by the front entrance or where the facility displays there beverage license.

 

____________________
I've got gold in the sunshine and diamonds in the dew.

 

Universal Peach



Karma:
Posts: 6303
(6324 all sites)
Registered: 8/3/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 04:08 PM
That makes sense that you would pay dues but it just s sounds wierd that you would, I mean if a song is something that gets lots of play then you have to play it, I guess a year long due is better than a paying for everytime you play a song

 

____________________
Standing Alone Against Northern Aggression Since 1861

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 4855
(5800 all sites)
Registered: 9/6/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 04:14 PM
quote:
Actually BMI and ASCAP require restaurants, clubs, and other venues to pay annual dues.

I manage a nightclub and we pay our dues every year. Places that carry a BMI/ASCAP license are supposed to display a sticker baring the BMI/ASCAP logo somewhere on the premises...usually by the front entrance or where the facility displays there beverage license.
UncleJohn..Did you decide what to name your Wednesday Theme night?

 

____________________
"And in the end....The love you take, is equal to the love......you make"

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 4855
(5800 all sites)
Registered: 9/6/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 04:17 PM
Does anyone know if DONOVAN gets royalties from ABB for "Mountain Jam"? I met him once but never thought to ask. I hate when that happens!! You always think of what you SHOULD have said!!

 

____________________
"And in the end....The love you take, is equal to the love......you make"

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13152
(14465 all sites)
Registered: 6/1/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 04:19 PM
quote:
That makes sense that you would pay dues but it just s sounds wierd that you would, I mean if a song is something that gets lots of play then you have to play it, I guess a year long due is better than a paying for everytime you play a song


It didn't initially make sense to me either and it's hard to agree with. But, I made myself realize this fact. Most material is copyrighted and protected by law. If you notice on CDs, DVDs, & etc., it is usually stated somewhere on the packaging..."All rights reserved. Unathorized reproduction, copying, hiring, lending, public performance, upload/download, and broadcasting prohibited."

That's what BMI/ASCAP is here to insure...like it or not.

 

____________________
I've got gold in the sunshine and diamonds in the dew.

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13152
(14465 all sites)
Registered: 6/1/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 04:22 PM
quote:
quote:
Actually BMI and ASCAP require restaurants, clubs, and other venues to pay annual dues.

I manage a nightclub and we pay our dues every year. Places that carry a BMI/ASCAP license are supposed to display a sticker baring the BMI/ASCAP logo somewhere on the premises...usually by the front entrance or where the facility displays there beverage license.
UncleJohn..Did you decide what to name your Wednesday Theme night?


Actually yes, even though we are still ironing a few small details...I've decided to go with "Wednesday Night Revival." I'll keep you posted on how everything goes.

Thanks for asking!

 

____________________
I've got gold in the sunshine and diamonds in the dew.

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5678
(5711 all sites)
Registered: 6/27/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 05:28 PM
So, if one whistles "Dixie", is it jail-time?

 

____________________
Mecca Delendum Est

Support International TOURISM. Vsit MATAMOROS, Mexico

Obama thinks the American people are stupid

When leftist radicalism takes over America it.....

How does polygamous marriage threaten gay marriage?

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 4855
(5800 all sites)
Registered: 9/6/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 05:38 PM
Not to get off topic (haha), but I heard that EMERIL LAGASSE, the reknown CHEF, copyrighted BAM! It can't be said on TV if you're cooking and add spices!! Can you believe that??

 

____________________
"And in the end....The love you take, is equal to the love......you make"

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1725
(1746 all sites)
Registered: 8/31/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 05:45 PM
quote:
Does anyone know if DONOVAN gets royalties from ABB for "Mountain Jam"? I met him once but never thought to ask. I hate when that happens!! You always think of what you SHOULD have said!!


haha, what DID you think to ask Donovan? Ooops, guess it's a bit off-topic.

 

____________________
-- This sky where we live is no place to lose your wings, so love, love, love.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 14214
(15540 all sites)
Registered: 6/6/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 06:05 PM
As a manager for the swamp yankee blues guy known around here as Dusty, and having had several conversations about song licensing, copyright and the like, I think it is "some" of the musicians and those that own the copyrights or publishing rights out there that get on ASCAP and BMI to push the issue. Then when a generalized statement such as the one here is put out and the girl scouts get hold of it, it becomes a big issue.
Now there are songs that are played all the time that are not having royalties paid on them and sometimes it is a matter of how far you want to push the issue of it. Like for instance if I go to a club or a bar and someone plays a song that Dusty owns the copyrights to, I can make an issue of it or I can tell Dusty about it and he may just think it is cool to have another band like it enough to do a cover of it onstage.

I can guarantee that Arlo doesn't have a problem with the girl scouts singing This Land is Your Land around the camp fire and he himself would not look to collect royalties for it either, but what BMI and ASCAP do is done to the general public and not aimed at girl scouts kind of informal gatherings.

 

____________________
Good lucks never really been a strong suit of mine, can't get a nickel for a dime...

 
E-Mail User

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 4855
(5800 all sites)
Registered: 9/6/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 06:09 PM
I asked him what inspired him to write about Atlantis. I think it is one of the most beautiful songs eloquently performed. And by the time of the ending, it sounds as if he is ressurecting the mysterious Continent. He answered: 'I wrote it about Atlantis! But the ending was to compete with the ending of The Beatles "Hey Jude"!' (who writes stuff like that...geniuses) And if you listen to the ending "Way down, below the ocean, where I want to be, she may be." over and over it plays......and you can actually sing the ending of "Hey Jude's" : "Na, na na na na na na, na na na na, Hey Jude", and it fits right in! i got more of an answer than I expected! But I really would like to know if ABB paid him for "Mountain Jam".

[Edited on 2/12/2005 by ILABB]

 

____________________
"And in the end....The love you take, is equal to the love......you make"

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 14214
(15540 all sites)
Registered: 6/6/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2005 at 06:17 PM
Harry Fox agency stopped doing these types of licenses in 2002 and her is why, they were confused.

The Harry Fox Agency represents music publishers for their mechanical and digital licensing needs. We issue licenses and collecting and distributing royalties on our affiliated publisher's behalf. This includes uses the recording and reproduction of CDs, ringtones, and Internet downloads. HFA no longer issues synchronization (or synch) licenses for the use of music in advertising, movies, music videos, and TV programs, but we do collect and distribute on synch licenses which we granted prior to discontinuing that service in 2002.

HFA is often confused with the performing rights societies, ASCAP, BMI and SESAC. Performing rights are separate and apart from mechanical rights, and are necessary to obtain for public performance of copyrighted music, such as at concerts, radio and television broadcasts, and the like. We suggest you contact these companies if you are interested in any performance rights or synch licenses. These companies also represent songwriters and publishers for the placement of their music in films and for use by other performers. HFA does not provide any of these services.

 

____________________
Good lucks never really been a strong suit of mine, can't get a nickel for a dime...

 
E-Mail User

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1907
(1909 all sites)
Registered: 3/16/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/13/2005 at 12:18 AM
quote:
Does anyone know if DONOVAN gets royalties from ABB for "Mountain Jam"? I met him once but never thought to ask. I hate when that happens!! You always think of what you SHOULD have said!!


He is listed as co-writer to the song, along with all the guys from the original lineup, so he should be receiving his money.

Everytime I've ever met someone, I remember to ask them all kinds of questions, but never the #1 thing I wanted to know! So I can completely relate...

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 67008
(67525 all sites)
Registered: 10/27/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/13/2005 at 09:07 AM
quote:
quote:
Does anyone know if DONOVAN gets royalties from ABB for "Mountain Jam"? I met him once but never thought to ask. I hate when that happens!! You always think of what you SHOULD have said!!


He is listed as co-writer to the song, along with all the guys from the original lineup, so he should be receiving his money.

Everytime I've ever met someone, I remember to ask them all kinds of questions, but never the #1 thing I wanted to know! So I can completely relate...


In theory the ASCAP/BMI think sounds good.

Collect fees for the people who wrote the songs.

It's when you deal with the people who collect that the fun begins.

The ones I dealt with in Houston were more like Mafia bag men.

Pay up or else.

And they determine how much you owe them by how many seats you have.

And the type of stuff you play.

It comes accross as a huge scam that a small bar owner can do nothing about.

Rockers had a license and payed out the ass for it.

Another place I worked never paid them.

One less creditor when it went under.

 

____________________
Hittin' The Web::Hugh Duty Memorial Giveaway has begun!

RIP Hugh Duty

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 15986
(15990 all sites)
Registered: 9/24/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/13/2005 at 01:56 PM
greetings:

alot of the fees are determined by what else the club offers besides
"live" music. If they do a wednesday night dance thing. they are playing
pre-recorded music.

back in El Lay in the 80's... you had to pay to play in the clubs period
a band that drew in the crowds would be headlined without cost to them and get
a nice piece of change. The two or three bands performing before them would be
issued a certain number of tickets by the club and had to purchase them prior to
walking out the door. They either sold them to get reinbursed, often making a lil money.
or they took the hit. I sold 30 tickets issued to my band by the club for 150 bucks, made
a whopping 25 bucks over what the club charged us. when my friends came with tickets
to see us they were turned away at the door cause the place was already full. talk about lame, but in the small print of the performer/establishment contract was a clause.
venue is not responsible or liable for over booking ect ect ect. After that we would try
to get a contract with that clause omitted. what ended up happening was we went and played the other circuits around the country...avoiding the el lay basin (our home turf) just to be able to play music and earn a lil money in the process.

Laters On
Brother james

 

____________________

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 12323
(12446 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/13/2005 at 02:26 PM
I am going to stop singing and playing "Happy Birthday". Might go to jail.


 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13910
(15927 all sites)
Registered: 3/14/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/14/2005 at 07:55 PM
quote:
I am going to stop singing and playing "Happy Birthday". Might go to jail.


LOL..

 

____________________

 
 


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software


Privacy | Terms of Service
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com