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Author: Subject: Duane & Johnny Winter

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  posted on 11/6/2004 at 03:59 AM
What's the relashionship between Duane and Johnny Winter?

We know that Johnny performed Mountain Jam with the Allmans, at Atlanta on 5/7/70, he played some cuts on Gregg Allman's "Laid Back" (there's a good version of Wasted Words), and he introduced the ABB shows many times.

I know that Duane once saw him and said that he could play slide better than Johnny.
I read an interview in which Duane said: "Johnny Winter? Good musician and good bottleneck all around".

More recently Johnny said in an interview: "I loved to play with Gregg, and Duane too!"


 
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  posted on 11/6/2004 at 10:06 AM
Johnny's guest appearance on Mountain Jam at the Atlanta Pop Festival on 7/5/70 is captured (albeit in heavily edited form) on the Atlanta Pop CD, of course - unfortunately, for much of the time (and the whole tape captures him better) he's playing in E minor blues scale, as opposed to the E major scale that the song was written around; the effect is jarring and, I suppose, one reason why he's mixed-down and the song so heavily edited.

I believe he also makes an uncredited appearance on Stormy Monday too, though I'd have to dig out my CD, to check on that one.

 
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  posted on 11/6/2004 at 02:47 PM
Oh, thanks Paul!

There's some interviews in which Johnny speaks about Duane or The ABB? I found very little on the web.

 

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  posted on 11/6/2004 at 03:47 PM
Johnny Winter on "Laid Back"?
I am not sure that is correct.

 

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  posted on 11/7/2004 at 02:04 AM
He appears on Gregg's One More Try cd. Wasted Words.

Sal

 

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  posted on 11/7/2004 at 02:31 AM
Actually I beleive Duane is qouted as saying after seeing JW live ,that he could" cut what he was doing"JW got a lot of press back then for being the next thing and Duane simply meant that he could keep up with him. Later Duane said he preferred Jw's records to his live show..me too!! but their paths must have crossed a bit back then because JW played the fillmore that infamous march and Johhny was a road warrior back then as well. The couple of times i caught Winters shows then they were short ,45 minutes 70 max..

 

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  posted on 11/7/2004 at 07:03 AM
quote:

"Johnny (Winter) is really good but I can cut him"

Bingylandmusic, this famous phraise is referred at Johnny's solos?


 

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  posted on 11/7/2004 at 07:07 AM
Duane seeing Johnny live..

What said Johnny about Live At Fillmore East?

 

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  posted on 11/7/2004 at 02:35 PM
quote:
"Johnny (Winter) is really good but I can cut him"

Bingylandmusic, this famous phraise is referred at Johnny's solos?
Mark and Marcuccio, this is the first thing I thing of when I see Duane and Johnny mentioned in the same sentence. Here's the whole passage from the special Duane issue of Guitar Player mag, 1981.10; the writer is Jimmy Johnson, Muscle Shoals guitarist, engineer, later producer:

I remember a specific incident when we were in New York, doing Aretha {1969.01}. It was Duane's first time there to do sessions--this was around late '68, maybe the first of the year. He says, "Hey, let's run over to the Fillmore East to hear this new guy." Johnny Winter was playing his premiere performance in New York {1969.01.10-11, the headliner being B.B. King, with Terry Reid and then Johnny as support}, and the publicity was unreal.

We got up in the balcony, and at that point Duane had never really expressed that he wanted to go back to live performing. But that night it just got too much for him. I'll never forget what he said--this was about midway through: "Johnny is really good, but I can cut him." Of course, I knew what he meant. Johnny was great--this ain't belittlin' Johnny--but I think he was giving Duane the confidence that he could make it, because he knew he could play, he could cut it.

He looked over at me. "Jimmy," he said, "do you see that stage down there? Next year by this time, I'm going to be down there." I looked at him and kind of did one of them double-takes, and I said, "You know, I think you will." And he was {1969.12.26-28 the Allman Brothers opened for Appaloosa and headliners Blood, Sweat & Tears). I get chills when I think of that night.

http://www.fillmore-east.com/showlist.html

{Perhaps somewhat appropriately, before the Allman Brothers closed the Fillmore East on 1971.06.25-27, the previous headliners were Johnny Winter 06.24 and B.B. 06.18-19.

 

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  posted on 11/7/2004 at 03:43 PM
I can only imagine it took balls or a lot of confidence back then to step up to the guitar alter and take on the elite group of players that were dominating the scene in the late sixties . The English had been getting the lion share of the credit with Beck,Page, Clapton. Townsend , Green and it was a new breed of players like carlos,, JW from america that were now getting some credit and of course Jimi & Bloomfield for bringing the blues home. Duane was a liitle late on the scene and the brothers themselves were late on the Blues rock scene that they would eventually lay claim to being the most innovative of. My first impression of Duane around christmas 70 was he sounded like Bloomfied and the band were another blues rock knock off, much like ten years after(although iI liked the first record alot). Of course I had changed my mind drastically by 71 but even then I was surprised to see them doing statesboro, stormy Monday "you don't love me" but of course Duane did it better than anyone before IMHO


i thought Johnny winter was capable of great things but I 've just never though he achieved them while his production and involement of Muddy water's Hard again" is about the closest he came to creating something great.. again IMO..


[Edited on 11/8/2004 by Bingylandmusic]

 

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  posted on 11/7/2004 at 04:33 PM
Thank you very much Peter, I know you're great!

In an interview, Michael Messer said that Johnny was heavily influenced by Duane's slide playing.

I've never read a real Johnny's interview about it.

Boys you know something more?

 

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  posted on 11/7/2004 at 08:51 PM
Didn't Scott Freeman/Midnight Riders right something to the fact of that Johnny Winter was leary of goin on after The Brothers and skipped a show because of this? (it could be in Bill Graham"s book too). I remember seeing the band in 71 at the Spectrum in Phil. the line-up that nite was : Redbone,ABB,Johnny Winter And, I definately remember Duane sticking around leanin on the amps, sippin a beer (probably a PBR) watchin Johnnny Winter.
 

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  posted on 11/8/2004 at 03:18 PM
Yeah thats right, but you know, some people consider Johnny Winter Jimi Hendrix's equal, which he is excellent of course, but comparing to Hendrix is kinda off I think
 

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  posted on 11/8/2004 at 08:02 PM
quote:

In an interview, Michael Messer said that Johnny was heavily influenced by Duane's slide playing.



So, it's not true?

My personal opinion is that Johnny changed his style between '70 & '71.
If you hear "The Progressive Blues Experiment" and "Second Winter" his slide style is really different. Not to cited "Captured Live" in which he really remembers me Duane at certain moments.

Don't you think?

 

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  posted on 11/9/2004 at 12:07 PM
Playallnite, Red Dog mentioned this in his book also -- I guess he and Duane talked prior to a Fillmore gig, and they changed the arrangement so that JWA went on before the Brothers.

 

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  posted on 11/10/2004 at 07:48 AM
It's interesting to note that many slide players don't admit any Duane's influence, but they have it!

Johnny in my opinion is one of them (scuse me boys but I think so).
But onestly he rarely admit also the influence Hendrix had on him.....
So, if he cited as his influences only Muddy, Elmore and B.B., I think that Johnny always is not really onest.....

I'm sorry

 

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  posted on 11/10/2004 at 01:16 PM
thanks Stephen, the more I think about it ,I'm also sure it's mentioned in Bill Grahams bio/book too.There is also a humorous passage in the book about the ABB's first appearance at the F. East, they were on the bill w/Blood Sweat and Tears who happened to have thier families, friends,etc. there to watch. Evidently the Brothers patryin lifestyle clashed with the upper crust members of the BS&T entourage,and BS&T vowed never to be on the same bill with them again. I remeber they took a lot of ribbing for the" naked in the creek photo" people would say what you guys gonna do on stage.get naked haha. But when they kicked off their set it silenced those people.
 

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  posted on 2/1/2005 at 01:31 AM
For rare photographs of Duane, Johnny Winter, and more, check out the web site: www.rockstarphotos.net OR www.sidneysmithphotos.com

 

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  posted on 2/1/2005 at 10:16 AM
The story of the Allmans showing up in the old Econoline van with tatty Marshalls to play the Fillmore East is in Bill Graham book.The Fillmore staff had seen the photos of the creek session and nobody was impressed until they set up and " whipped into a little jam on You Don't Love Me" . That's when they got everybody's attention.

Reading that BST took exception to the Allman's fun cracks me up.I grew up listening to David Clayton Thomas in various bands and he's no choir boy, must have been the cello and french horn section...

 

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  posted on 2/3/2005 at 11:20 AM
Speaking of Johnny....his album `THE PROGRESSIVE
BLUES EXPERIMENT' is being reissued very soon; I've
forgotten the exact date....and if you haven't picked
up the `deluxe version' of `SECOND WINTER', what
are you waiting for?

 

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  posted on 2/3/2005 at 04:04 PM
I don't really hear any Duane influence on Johnny's playing. Those two might be my favorite two guitar players ever, but I don't really think they're too similar. Duane had a lot more nuance than Johnny.

 

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  posted on 3/8/2005 at 01:34 PM
quote:
Playallnite, Red Dog mentioned this in his book also -- I guess he and Duane talked prior to a Fillmore gig, and they changed the arrangement so that JWA went on before the Brothers.


For whatever reason, advertisied billing etc, it didn't happen all the time cause I was at the show playallnoite mentioned in Philly at the Spectrum and JW Band did come on last. As all of you might have guessed, ABB blew them away.

 

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  posted on 3/8/2005 at 05:19 PM
I can say this.... saw the ABB open for Johnny Winter in Columbia, SC....... Johnny was in his prime.... when the lights went down and you heard him cut a riff, and then the lights come up and he's in that black coat with tails and a top hat.... you thought the devil had come to play for sure. And Duane, along with most of the band, watched the whole show from the wings (with his tall Bud). I think he liked what Johnny was doing. Straight ahead R&R.
 
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  posted on 3/8/2005 at 08:34 PM
I can easily imagine that Duane had enormous respect for Johnnys playing....
I think Duane must have apprecated all real talent.... Johnny was the real deal back when.....no doubt about it...... I also recall reading that seeing Johnny & Edgar together gave Duane faith that he & Gregg could make it too....

 

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  posted on 3/9/2005 at 02:02 PM
Johnny Winter is probably my favorite straight (as opposed to slide) lead blues player, and has been for quite some time. I also love his acoustic slide playing. His electric slide playing sort of "stays between the lines," in my opinion (is that a nice way of saying he always does the same thing?).

Butch mentioned a good while back, maybe two years ago, that after Duane's passing, there was an out-of-town guitarist hanging around Macon hoping for an audition . . . some speculated that it might have been JDW, but that was never confirmed.

I personally don't think it would have worked. I always liked Johnny best as the leader of a trio, or maybe with a little harp or piano thrown in.

 

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