Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Confused?

A Peach Supreme





Posts: 2404
(2404 all sites)
Registered: 11/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 04:18 PM
Just passing this on. Haven't gone to the dot coms to verify any of it though I know some of it to be true...

Have fun!

I'm confused
This was passed on to me, but I can't understand it.
Maybe you can.

I'm trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in my head
so I'll know how to vote come November. Right now, we have one guy saying one thing. Then the other guy says something else. Who to believe. Lemme see; have I got this straight?

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good...
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists- good...
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...

No mass graves found in Serbia - good...
No WMD found Iraq - bad...

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...

Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
Saddam turned over for trial - bad...

Ahh, it's so confusing!

Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the
"Tax Freedom Day".

This is the day after which the money you earn goes to you, not the government.
This year, tax freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest it has been since 1991.
It's latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000. Notice anything special about those dates?

Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are
actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave
no explanation and provided no data for this claim.

Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men.
Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions,
all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn
brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).

Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000.
Does that sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own.

 

____________________
"With the help of God and true friends I've come to realize,
I still have two strong legs and even wings to fly"

 
Visit User's Homepage
Replies:

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29948
(30044 all sites)
Registered: 1/26/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 04:23 PM
I didn't know Clinton was running against Bush?

Now I'm confused.

peace
John

 

____________________
People Can you Feel It?

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20685
(20770 all sites)
Registered: 11/26/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 04:30 PM
quote:
Just passing this on.

In case this feels familiar to anyone else. ...
http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&am p;file=viewthread&tid=17902#pid328474 One good turn deserves another, I guess.

Have fun!

quote:
Haven't gone to the dot coms to verify any of it though I know some of it to be true...

Which parts?

quote:
Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men.
Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions,
all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn
brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).

I don't know how many homes Bush has, but the second part is not true. The house in Boston is the only one that the Kerrys own as a couple. The rest belong just to Teresa Kerry, who is obviously extremely rich from her first marriage. Their assets are separate due to their pre-nup. It was the late John Heinz who had the barn brought over from Europe, so that bit of extravagance has nothing to do with Kerry.

quote:
The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own.

If I was making $200,000 a year - the only group Kerry has proposed 'raising' taxes for (and even then he's talking about resersing a cut that hasn't happened yet), I might be pissed. But probably not, I think I'd be pretty happy if I was making $200,000 a year. Kerry's never said he wanted to raise 'my' taxes. Maybe the e-mail means he has the capability and the intent to try to raise taxes. Because, you know, that's the same as actually raising taxes.

[Edited on 10/7/2004 by Marley]

 

____________________
http://www.tylersmusicroom.org

 
E-Mail User

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2778
(2780 all sites)
Registered: 1/20/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 05:20 PM
So, if you worked hard to get to the point where you were making 200k/year, you wouldn't be pissed if someone wanted to raise your taxes just because they thought you should be paying more because you make more? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

These days, 200k is not that uncommon. The ones that really could/should be hit up if this theory is to be implemented are the entertainers, big wig lawyers and the fat cat CEO's who all make over 5 or 10MM/year. Making 200k and living in NY is comparable to making 100k and living in VA. Would this taxation be adjusted based on cost of living? What if I made 200k/year and I was taking care of my mohter who was broke and living in a long-term care facility. These places can run as much as 100k/year (although the national average is closer to 60k). The law will only allow me to "give" her 11k/ year. Therefore, I am taxed on everything else that goes to her care.

What about a flat tax? Why can't this be a reality? It seems to me that if we dispute or debate issues such as the electoral college and lobby on behalf of one man, one vote, then the same thinking should apply. I am no economist but fair is fair.


Mike

 

____________________

 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2778
(2780 all sites)
Registered: 1/20/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 05:22 PM
Sorry - don't get me started on taxation...

I try to make it my business to hide as much as I can.



Mike

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20685
(20770 all sites)
Registered: 11/26/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 06:08 PM
quote:
So, if you worked hard to get to the point where you were making 200k/year, you wouldn't be pissed if someone wanted to raise your taxes just because they thought you should be paying more because you make more? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I was kidding. And no, I wouldn't necessarily be pissed off.

quote:
What about a flat tax? Why can't this be a reality? It seems to me that if we dispute or debate issues such as the electoral college and lobby on behalf of one man, one vote, then the same thinking should apply. I am no economist but fair is fair.

The usual thinking is that a flat tax is unfair because people who have a higher income can afford to pay a higher tax rate. Paying 15% is less of a big deal if you make a million dollars in a year than if you make $100,000. I think this is what is meant when people complain about the shifting of the tax burden- people who make more money can shoulder more of that burden. I guess one reason a flat tax hasn't happened is that it would increase the tax burden on the middle class, and there are more people there than in the higher tax brackets who would have their tax rates reduced.

 

____________________
http://www.tylersmusicroom.org

 
E-Mail User

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20685
(20770 all sites)
Registered: 11/26/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 06:19 PM
Mike, I probably should've explained more about myself. I'm recently out of college, have no dependents, and live in an apartment. With or without a tax-cut rollback, $200,000 in the next year would be much more than I need to get by. I wasn't suggesting it's enough for everyone.

 

____________________
http://www.tylersmusicroom.org

 
E-Mail User

Universal Peach



Karma:
Posts: 6475
(6530 all sites)
Registered: 8/27/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 06:35 PM
I'm so not confused. Putting information out there, w/o checking the facts, little concern for the truth; intending to get peoples panties in a wad. Sounds like a Dubya kind of thing to me....

[Edited on 10/8/2004 by RedRider]

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 18504
(18970 all sites)
Registered: 1/19/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 06:45 PM
Don't get me started on the IRS either; but the whole election has much to consider. Cheney pointed out that Edwards missed 33 of 36 meetings of the Judiciary Committee. What are they responsible for and what do they do? Are they one of those full of sh*t committees that just debates and never gets anything done? There are lots of committees in Washington, the only one I know a little about is the Appropriations Committee. Edwards said Cheney voted against Meals on Wheels for Old People who are stuck in their homes and have no money or no food. I heard about the program and it is legitamite so I can't understand why someone would vote against that. While Edwards says he wants to take care of problems here more than sending troops to other countries except as a last resort and work on education and creating jobs (typical Democrat issues that they spend and allocate money for), he did say he wants to increase the active forces in Afghanistan by 40,000, which means sending 40,000 more over there; but since we are not done with Iraq yet, he will HAVE to leave and have some there too. The Democrats under Clinton created more jobs, but then they did not have 9/11 and it's aftermath to deal with, so we have to allow some latitude to the Republicans on that. Basically Bush will spend money on Defense which the Republicans have always done and further his aspirations of making Daddy proud by liberating oil from other countries, Kerry is either really smart or really arrogant in thinking he has the answers. It will be interesting either way.

 

____________________
"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20685
(20770 all sites)
Registered: 11/26/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 07:22 PM
quote:
You think that you have all of the answers. Doesn't that make you arrogant as well?

And when she talks, we're never sure what the question was. If the question is "Confused?" the answer is definitely yes now!

[Edited on 10/8/2004 by Marley]

 

____________________
http://www.tylersmusicroom.org

 
E-Mail User

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2404
(2404 all sites)
Registered: 11/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 08:56 PM
quote:
I didn't know Clinton was running against Bush?

Now I'm confused.

peace
John


Indeed you are! W is running against Kerry. This is a comparrison of things W has been citicized for in contrast to the Greaat Willie.

 

____________________
"With the help of God and true friends I've come to realize,

I still have two strong legs and even wings to fly"


 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2404
(2404 all sites)
Registered: 11/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 09:06 PM
[quote[ I don't know how many homes Bush has, but the second part is not true. The house in Boston is the only one that the Kerrys own as a couple. The rest belong just to Teresa Kerry, who is obviously extremely rich from her first marriage. Their assets are separate due to their pre-nup.

So What? They are married are you saying he is a guest in those homes or that he doesn't even use them?

quote:
The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own.

If I was making $200,000 a year - the only group Kerry has proposed 'raising' taxes for (and even then he's talking about resersing a cut that hasn't happened yet), I might be pissed. But probably not, I think I'd be pretty happy if I was making $200,000 a year. Kerry's never said he wanted to raise 'my' taxes. Maybe the e-mail means he has the capability and the intent to try to raise taxes. Because, you know, that's the same as actually raising taxes.

Guess that went right over your head man. The point is pretty simple actually. Kerry says he wants to raise taxes for the rich. Wwhy wouldn't he be honest and approach the subject like this....

I pay less taxes than I should because of loopholes in the system that I take advantage of. It is leagel but I plan to get rid of those loopholes so that I and other wealthy Americans wil pay OUR fair share.

And Marley your answer doesn;t address the fact that the candidate with the lower income paid more taxes than the guy who wants to tax the rich. hmmmmmm
[Edited on 10/7/2004 by Marley]

 

____________________
"With the help of God and true friends I've come to realize,

I still have two strong legs and even wings to fly"


 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2404
(2404 all sites)
Registered: 11/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 09:08 PM
quote:
I'm so not confused. Putting information out there, w/o checking the facts, little concern for the truth; intending to get peoples panties in a wad. Sounds like a Dubya kind of thing to me....

[Edited on 10/8/2004 by RedRider]


Sounds like a Jimmy to me but I appreciate the kind words

 

____________________
"With the help of God and true friends I've come to realize,

I still have two strong legs and even wings to fly"


 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2404
(2404 all sites)
Registered: 11/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 09:12 PM
quote:
quote:
You think that you have all of the answers. Doesn't that make you arrogant as well?

And when she talks, we're never sure what the question was. If the question is "Confused?" the answer is definitely yes now!

[Edited on 10/8/2004 by Marley]


Hey now I think this is the first thread I started that has been graced by her prescence Lets be nice.

 

____________________
"With the help of God and true friends I've come to realize,

I still have two strong legs and even wings to fly"


 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29713
(29846 all sites)
Registered: 12/13/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 09:44 PM
quote:
Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are
actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave
no explanation and provided no data for this claim.


This is actually true. While I can't believe Kerry didn't offer an explanation, here's the deal: American's ARE paying more in taxes (maybe just not Federal taxes). The federal gov't, as you probably know, has spent money like it's going out of style in the last four years under the Bush Administration. And it's not just for the never ending war on terror, or military spending either. DOMESTIC spending has increased over $22 BILLION a year over what your favorite president Clinton spent.

What this incredible spending spree has done (coupled with the insane tax cuts for the very rich) has put a crimp on state and local economies. States and cities are not getting the federal dollars that they once received. In Iowa, for example, state taxes have increased to try and cover the short fall of the state's budgets. In Cedar Rapids and most other cities, property taxes have increased tremendously to cover the local city budget short falls. Not only have taxes increased, but service fees have increased tremendously as well. Water, sewer, parking fees have all gone up. Plus, health insurance has gone through the roof, as well.

I didn't get a raise this fiscal year because the economy stinks. Add that to my health insurance increasing about $100 bucks a month, our agency just can't cover what they used to cover. Plus, income taxes have gone up. Parking fees for the city that come out of my pay check so I can park within 2 blocks of my office has increased. You know what happened to my pay check? I'm making about $300 less per month now than I was this summer... **** that...don't tell me I'm not paying more in taxes now than I did under Clinton....Bush's math is funny if he thinks people are paying less taxes now....

American's ARE paying more in taxes and services now than what they paid under Clinton....Jimmy don't listen to these stupid emails that have no basis in FACT...

 

____________________
Your neighborhood brewery and tap house - yes! we're now open! Like us on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/FranklinStreetBrewing

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20685
(20770 all sites)
Registered: 11/26/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 10:18 PM
quote:
This is actually true. While I can't believe Kerry didn't offer an explanation, here's the deal: American's ARE paying more in taxes (maybe just not Federal taxes).

I don't like it when politicians make claims and don't back them up, so boo on Kerry if he did this. But criticizing Kerry for not backing up a statement in a speech is kind of silly unless you're going to criticize people on both sides for making claims and not explaining where the data is from. It's not like Bush and Cheney never do this. I imagine stuff like this is considered unnecessary and boring in a speech. Fortunately there are some good sources online who'll explain where that kind of data is from and (more often than not) how each side is twisting it to make it look better for them.

[Edited on 10/8/2004 by Marley]

 

____________________
http://www.tylersmusicroom.org

 
E-Mail User

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29948
(30044 all sites)
Registered: 1/26/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 10:59 PM
quote:


Indeed you are! W is running against Kerry. This is a comparrison of things W has been citicized for in contrast to the Greaat Willie.


The Great Willie?

Is that what Monica called it?

So shouldn't we be comparing Kerry and Bush rather than Bubba and Dubya?

isn't that what this election is about?


peace
John

 

____________________
People Can you Feel It?

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20685
(20770 all sites)
Registered: 11/26/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2004 at 11:23 PM
quote:
Indeed you are! W is running against Kerry. This is a comparrison of things W has been citicized for in contrast to the Greaat Willie.

You know, he has a point. I don't remember any criticism of Clinton for invading Iraq.

 

____________________
http://www.tylersmusicroom.org

 
E-Mail User

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/8/2004 at 06:58 AM
On the taxation thing, I don't like Kerry's idea that if you make 200K a year you will be in a higher tax bracket. Like people have said earlier when you have several children and you live in a place New York, 200K isn't a lot of money. We are already taxed to death.
 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 790
(790 all sites)
Registered: 12/20/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/8/2004 at 07:21 AM
I have a point to make in comparing critics of Clinton vs. critics of Bush.

Both times Clinton ran for President (neither time winning even at least 50% of the vote,FWIW),he ran against certifieable war heros-Bush Sr.,who was shot down in WW2,and Bob Dole,who nearly lost his arm in either WW2 or Korea (I'm drawing a blank in my mind trying to remember which war he was in-pretty sure it was WW2).

Clinton on the other hand,burned his draft card and probably never even thought once about joining the Army or even the National Guard (he said on 60 Minutes that he breifly considered joining the Army-of course that depends on your definition of breifly is-in this case probably all of 2 seconds).

Was this a major,or even minor issue in either race?Nope.I don't even remember much (if any) comparison between the canidates' war service or lack of it.

Now,we have Bush and Kerry.

Bush joined the National Guard,and is looked upon as a coward by the mainstream media and various left sided pundits for not going to Viet Nam.One Kerry spokeswoman on Hannity&Colmes (she is a frequent guest on both that show and The O'Reily Factor on behalf of the Kerry campaign),flat out said that "George Bush betrayed his country by not going to Viet Nam."

Now,balance Clinton burning his draft card,basicaly giving the US Military the finger and heading off to school,with George Bush joining the National Guard and logging in 570 hours of air time in fighter training and being honorably discharged.A rational person would say Bush served honorably,and Clinton spat on the Army.In the media,it is exactly the opposit.

Now,look at Kerry.He spent 4 months in Viet Nam,was wounded 3 times with minor wounds that would not have in any way kept him from servnig the remaining 8 months of his tour,but instead chose to take advantage of the 3 Purple Heart rule to go home,in his own words,because he thought he could "fight more effectively at home".Once home he spit on the military,called his fellow soldiers (most of whom were still in combat)war criminals,and gave a speech that the Viet Cong later played at the Hanoi Hilton while torturing USA POWs to try to get them to admit to the atrocities Kerry spoke of.

Kerry is touted by the media as a "war hero".

So let's take a quick overview-

Bush Sr.-honorable service in war,shot down in battle,doesn't run on his war record

Bob Dole-honorable service in war,war hero,seriously and permanetly injured in battle,does not run on war record

Bush Jr.-honorable service in the National Guard,is touted as a coward and a "fortunate son"

Bill Clinton-burned his draft card

John Kerry-serves less than 1/2 his tour in Viet Nam,admits to leaving early when he did not have to,and once home calls his fellow soldiers war criminals,and on top of that gives a speach that,believe it or not,the Viet Cong thought quite appropriate to use while torturing American POWs.And his picture is hanging in a Viet Cong museum with the information next to it reading that he helped further their cause.

So-Clinton's record didn't matter when running against Bush Sr. and Bob Dole,yet Bush Jr. is a coward and John Kerry is a war hero.

Even the most ardent leftist would admit that is hypocritical.

WB.

[Edited on 10/8/2004 by WheelchairBandit]

 

____________________
Proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy

 
E-Mail User

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 67529
(67890 all sites)
Registered: 11/28/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/8/2004 at 08:50 AM
Not quite sure how not being able to account for most of his time in the guard is "honorable".

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29713
(29846 all sites)
Registered: 12/13/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/8/2004 at 09:47 AM
But Sang, you have to remember it's all Clinton's fault....

 

____________________
Your neighborhood brewery and tap house - yes! we're now open! Like us on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/FranklinStreetBrewing

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 4753
(8045 all sites)
Registered: 11/30/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/8/2004 at 10:44 AM
quote:
Not quite sure how not being able to account for most of his time in the guard is "honorable".

Sang...what the hell are you talking about? no, really, what ARE you talking about?

 

____________________
Taking care and knowing I am loved

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 67529
(67890 all sites)
Registered: 11/28/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/8/2004 at 11:12 AM
quote:
quote:
Not quite sure how not being able to account for most of his time in the guard is "honorable".

Sang...what the hell are you talking about? no, really, what ARE you talking about?


I am talking about this quote from above:

Bush Jr.-honorable service in the National Guard,is touted as a coward and a "fortunate son"


George Jr. was MIA most of the last part of his guard service, even with special consideration given him because of his family...there seems to be 'gaps' in his service - even more than Nixon's 18-minute gap...

 

____________________

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1186
(1186 all sites)
Registered: 1/10/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/8/2004 at 11:14 AM
KCJimmy,

Let me help alleviate some of your confusion, albiet only some.

The main difference why the U.S.'s actions in Serbia were considered as "good" vs those in Iraq being "bad" was that it was acting as part of a multi-national force SPONSORED BY THE U.N. in Serbia vs. in Iraq, where it clearly wasn't....

As for the rest, I'm just as confused as you....

 
<<  1    2  >>  


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software


Privacy | Terms of Service
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com