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Author: Subject: West Virginia Teacher Strike

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 3/5/2018 at 09:18 AM
Strike enters 8th day. The low pay and low raises are one thing, but seems the increasing health care premiums really drive it with no answer so far in the offers or negotiations addressing that. There's got to be a better way for a national healthcare system - much bigger issue.

House and Governor approved 5% pay raise which appeared to be satisfactory to end the strike. Then Senate approved a 4% pay raise instead, and for that the strike goes on, with teacher organizations calling it a "deal breaker". At first they were protesting the original offer of 2% raise for 2018-19 school year and 1% a year raise for 2020 and 2021, now they are protesting 1% again, but this time it comes 4 vs 5. Legislators say the difference saves the state 17 million a year.

The 4 and 5% bills will have to be reconciled. Shouldn't they take the 4% even though it wasn't as good as the 5%? It was better than the original offer.

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/6/2018 at 03:19 PM
I saw a video where some of the teachers said their pay is so low they qualify for WIC (Women, Infant and Children food subsidy from the food stamps program) and food stamps.

We need affordable state and/or national health care plan. West Virginia does not have a wealthy tax payer base, so perhaps since the solution to national health care isn't forthcoming anytime soon, perhaps states could join into small blocks to help provide health care. Part of West Virginia utilizes the Ohio Valley health care system already so it seems like more can be done. Maybe Kasich and Manchin could start talking. Kentucky has notoriously horrible health care, they could get involved also, throw in Virginia and Tennessee and create a bloc of health care.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/6/2018 at 08:23 PM
That is an interesting idea Gina. However, I think state legislatures would be concerned if they are bearing too much of a burden for another state's citizens at the expense of their own citizens. After all, we only get to vote for our own state reps and if the perception is that current leadership isn't doing enough for "me" at the expense of "them" that isn't going to go over well at the ballot box. Still, I don't rule it out. It could be an interesting experiment from some like-minded neighboring states.

I am kind of more interested in what comes of this Amazon-Berkshire-Chase health coverage experiment is going to go.

The strike is over. They got 5% raise. A Senator said they will cut $20mill from general spending and medicaid. The Governor said that won't be the case. Money has to come from somewhere and they say they aren't raising taxes. Shell game. That's just the thing. Here in Ohio, unlike WVa, state school funding is almost exclusively funding through property taxes and in some districts small income taxes. So if they want more money, the community has to vote on it. They get the schools and teacher salaries they want.

West Virginia has it's challenges. Mining declines, perhaps lack of sufficient taxing of industry...and certainly manufacturing job losses at the hands of free trade agreements have played a role. 32,397 manufacturing job losses during the 1994-2016 period of expanding free trade agreements. Jobs that paid good wages and provided a source for income tax revenue among other funding necessities. It really is the root of so many of our financial problems locally, statewide and nationally.

[Edited on 3/7/2018 by nebish]

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2018 at 11:11 AM
The WV Teachers strike is over and the teacher's union got what they demanded.

Next....

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2018 at 01:12 PM
No need to point out what informed people already knew.
 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2018 at 05:21 PM
Take the responsibility of healthcare off the public and private employers at the state and local level. Medicare for all is the answer. Raise payroll deductions slightly for every working American (progressively, I might add), build in additional price caps (especially for drugs!!!), and make real effort at curbing fraud and abuse and be prepared to continually tweak the new Medicare "system" as needed for years to come.

Without the shackles of healthcare around their neck; municipalities, state entities, school districts, private employers, etc. would be much more fiscally sound and competitive. The worst thing this nation did 80 years ago was to suggest health care be provided by employers both public and private. The cost of this mistake is practically unimaginable.

[Edited on 3/7/2018 by Chain]

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2018 at 10:47 PM
quote:
Take the responsibility of healthcare off the public and private employers at the state and local level. Medicare for all is the answer. Raise payroll deductions slightly for every working American (progressively, I might add), build in additional price caps (especially for drugs!!!), and make real effort at curbing fraud and abuse and be prepared to continually tweak the new Medicare "system" as needed for years to come.

Without the shackles of healthcare around their neck; municipalities, state entities, school districts, private employers, etc. would be much more fiscally sound and competitive. The worst thing this nation did 80 years ago was to suggest health care be provided by employers both public and private. The cost of this mistake is practically unimaginable.

[Edited on 3/7/2018 by Chain]



A lefty that supports gov't control of healthcare.
No way the American People would support socialized healthcare.

Thanks to President Trump West Virginia's economy is rocking again and they can afford to pay their teachers a better wage.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 3/7/2018 at 11:46 PM
quote:
quote:
Take the responsibility of healthcare off the public and private employers at the state and local level. Medicare for all is the answer. Raise payroll deductions slightly for every working American (progressively, I might add), build in additional price caps (especially for drugs!!!), and make real effort at curbing fraud and abuse and be prepared to continually tweak the new Medicare "system" as needed for years to come.

Without the shackles of healthcare around their neck; municipalities, state entities, school districts, private employers, etc. would be much more fiscally sound and competitive. The worst thing this nation did 80 years ago was to suggest health care be provided by employers both public and private. The cost of this mistake is practically unimaginable.

[Edited on 3/7/2018 by Chain]



A lefty that supports gov't control of healthcare.
No way the American People would support socialized healthcare.

Thanks to President Trump West Virginia's economy is rocking again and they can afford to pay their teachers a better wage.



How is WV's economy "rocking again"?

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 12:06 AM
quote:
Take the responsibility of healthcare off the public and private employers at the state and local level. Medicare for all is the answer. Raise payroll deductions slightly for every working American (progressively, I might add), build in additional price caps (especially for drugs!!!), and make real effort at curbing fraud and abuse and be prepared to continually tweak the new Medicare "system" as needed for years to come.

Without the shackles of healthcare around their neck; municipalities, state entities, school districts, private employers, etc. would be much more fiscally sound and competitive. The worst thing this nation did 80 years ago was to suggest health care be provided by employers both public and private. The cost of this mistake is practically unimaginable.

[Edited on 3/7/2018 by Chain]


Agree that private and public sector employment shouldn't have to provide the health insurance coverage for people. I would rather see a single payer system cutting the middle-man insurers completely out of the equation. Now, my biggest concern naturally are costs because I worry that government will never fully account for the expenses and under estimate and under sell the overall costs. I also do not want a free ride for patients. I strongly believe that everyone needs to have some connection and liability to the cost of the care they receive in addition to any medicare taxes they pay. Finally, I want return on investment weighted in these decisions. That could mean, death panels, and I'm fine with that. Is it a wise use of resources to pay for someone in their 70s to undergo cancer treatment? Insurance companies make decisions like this now. Insurance companies have no compassion and I don't expect government to have any compassion either. Eat junk all the time and get diabetes or heart disease, why should everyone else pay for those poor decisions? If somebody else is paying the costs they get to decide what to spend on who and I am completely fine with that in order to serve the sustainability of the system. I think that would keep costs down. Some might not think it is fair, but lots of things aren't fair. People get sick and people get old and there shouldn't be a bottomless pool of money to try and treat everyone regardless of their prognosis of improvement or cure. We're all going to die someday, sometimes our actions move that date earlier and we should bear some consequence, prolonging it by a few months to a year with tens of thousands of dollars in treatment and care just isn't always going to be good use of tax payer money. You think we can get a system like that? Because if the alternative is we treat anyone and everyone for anything and everything all the time every time our financial day or reckoning is going to hit the fan alot faster and I don't want that.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 12:52 AM
quote:
Eat junk all the time and get diabetes or heart disease, why should everyone else pay for those poor decisions?


Bingo. Trouble is, jacks up insurance these morbidly obese folks in tbe motorized shopping carts loading up on soda pop and twinkies, drive costs up for everyone. WTF. Sugar should be classified Schedule 1.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 09:06 AM
Same thing is about to happen in KY. Patton (D) and Stumbo (D) royally fu***d the state pension plan when they were in office. I have several family members, along with several of their coworkers nearing retirement, that now may have to forgo all of their "promised" retirement and insurance benefits due to the faulty decisions made within the last decade. On top of that they decided to authorize "pension bonds" to try to fix the dumpster fire they created. Which was ultimately another horrible decision that had an enormous amount of risk and only worsened the issue, but the lefties continued to fight for it... It is going to get bad here. We are talking about 50-60 year old teachers that now may have to add an unplanned 7-8 years to their teaching career just to obtain their "full" retirement and be able to maintain their health insurance.
 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 11:59 AM
Sorry to hear that - teachers are not respected and paid anything near what they deserve. Teaching is a tough, important, and honorable profession.
 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 12:23 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Take the responsibility of healthcare off the public and private employers at the state and local level. Medicare for all is the answer. Raise payroll deductions slightly for every working American (progressively, I might add), build in additional price caps (especially for drugs!!!), and make real effort at curbing fraud and abuse and be prepared to continually tweak the new Medicare "system" as needed for years to come.

Without the shackles of healthcare around their neck; municipalities, state entities, school districts, private employers, etc. would be much more fiscally sound and competitive. The worst thing this nation did 80 years ago was to suggest health care be provided by employers both public and private. The cost of this mistake is practically unimaginable.

[Edited on 3/7/2018 by Chain]



A lefty that supports gov't control of healthcare.
No way the American People would support socialized healthcare.

Thanks to President Trump West Virginia's economy is rocking again and they can afford to pay their teachers a better wage.



How is WV's economy "rocking again"?



Where would you find a State's economic numbers?
evidently you need help find basic information.

Just look at the WV's reported financial numbers which are publically available.


 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 12:42 PM
quote:
Same thing is about to happen in KY. Patton (D) and Stumbo (D) royally fu***d the state pension plan when they were in office. I have several family members, along with several of their coworkers nearing retirement, that now may have to forgo all of their "promised" retirement and insurance benefits due to the faulty decisions made within the last decade. On top of that they decided to authorize "pension bonds" to try to fix the dumpster fire they created. Which was ultimately another horrible decision that had an enormous amount of risk and only worsened the issue, but the lefties continued to fight for it... It is going to get bad here. We are talking about 50-60 year old teachers that now may have to add an unplanned 7-8 years to their teaching career just to obtain their "full" retirement and be able to maintain their health insurance.


People who planned their lives around having certain benefits at retirement need to have those benefits there for him. They paid into the system and they were given an expectation of certain health and retirement pay that should remain in force for them.

Now, I think some of the fine print could reasonably change if we aren't talking too drastic. Some of these defined benefit retirement for people who are in their 50s? That is a great age to retire, in your mid-50s, but if one is reliant totally on some private or public pension, I think they should be asked to work longer than that in order to collect.

I want people near the age of retirement to get what is coming to them and get what they deserve and planned for, but they can contribute more as well.

And then the rest of us will just have to pick up the shortfalls. We have longer working life spans ahead of us. These programs seem to never be fully funded and properly planned. Sounds good to offer them, harder to have the funds available when people are ready to collect.



 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 12:48 PM
quote:
quote:
Same thing is about to happen in KY. Patton (D) and Stumbo (D) royally fu***d the state pension plan when they were in office. I have several family members, along with several of their coworkers nearing retirement, that now may have to forgo all of their "promised" retirement and insurance benefits due to the faulty decisions made within the last decade. On top of that they decided to authorize "pension bonds" to try to fix the dumpster fire they created. Which was ultimately another horrible decision that had an enormous amount of risk and only worsened the issue, but the lefties continued to fight for it... It is going to get bad here. We are talking about 50-60 year old teachers that now may have to add an unplanned 7-8 years to their teaching career just to obtain their "full" retirement and be able to maintain their health insurance.


People who planned their lives around having certain benefits at retirement need to have those benefits there for him. They paid into the system and they were given an expectation of certain health and retirement pay that should remain in force for them.

Now, I think some of the fine print could reasonably change if we aren't talking too drastic. Some of these defined benefit retirement for people who are in their 50s? That is a great age to retire, in your mid-50s, but if one is reliant totally on some private or public pension, I think they should be asked to work longer than that in order to collect.

I want people near the age of retirement to get what is coming to them and get what they deserve and planned for, but they can contribute more as well.

And then the rest of us will just have to pick up the shortfalls. We have longer working life spans ahead of us. These programs seem to never be fully funded and properly planned. Sounds good to offer them, harder to have the funds available when people are ready to collect.






If the people nearing retirement age end up on Medicare their life-expectancy will be significantly reduced and what life they have left will be controlled by the government.

Poor planning and not achieving a career to be able to retire comfortably is common but not the fault of the people who will end up having to pay more in taxes to them.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 01:17 PM
quote:
Poor planning and not achieving a career to be able to retire comfortably is common but not the fault of the people who will end up having to pay more in taxes to them.


LOL! Poor planning for retirement is not the fault of the retiree? Itís the governmentís fault? Look everyone - Mule supports blaming the government for oneís financial situation. Heís a liberal! Mule, you and the rest of the poor planners shouldíve worked harder, end of story.

[Edited on 3/8/2018 by BoytonBrother]

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 01:27 PM
quote:

Thanks to President Trump West Virginia's economy is rocking again and they can afford to pay their teachers a better wage.



Haha. By breathing a tiny amount of life into the dying coal industry, which by the way isnít making the resilient comeback he promised to his slack jawed minions.

So support a dying industry that wrecks the bodies of its employees and the planet but eff those greedy teachers?
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/376522-coal-industry-mired-in-decli ne-despite-trump-pledges

[Edited on 3/8/2018 by lukester420]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 01:29 PM
quote:
quote:
Take the responsibility of healthcare off the public and private employers at the state and local level. Medicare for all is the answer. Raise payroll deductions slightly for every working American (progressively, I might add), build in additional price caps (especially for drugs!!!), and make real effort at curbing fraud and abuse and be prepared to continually tweak the new Medicare "system" as needed for years to come.

Without the shackles of healthcare around their neck; municipalities, state entities, school districts, private employers, etc. would be much more fiscally sound and competitive. The worst thing this nation did 80 years ago was to suggest health care be provided by employers both public and private. The cost of this mistake is practically unimaginable.

[Edited on 3/7/2018 by Chain]


Agree that private and public sector employment shouldn't have to provide the health insurance coverage for people. I would rather see a single payer system cutting the middle-man insurers completely out of the equation. Now, my biggest concern naturally are costs because I worry that government will never fully account for the expenses and under estimate and under sell the overall costs. I also do not want a free ride for patients. I strongly believe that everyone needs to have some connection and liability to the cost of the care they receive in addition to any medicare taxes they pay. Finally, I want return on investment weighted in these decisions. That could mean, death panels, and I'm fine with that. Is it a wise use of resources to pay for someone in their 70s to undergo cancer treatment? Insurance companies make decisions like this now. Insurance companies have no compassion and I don't expect government to have any compassion either. Eat junk all the time and get diabetes or heart disease, why should everyone else pay for those poor decisions? If somebody else is paying the costs they get to decide what to spend on who and I am completely fine with that in order to serve the sustainability of the system. I think that would keep costs down. Some might not think it is fair, but lots of things aren't fair. People get sick and people get old and there shouldn't be a bottomless pool of money to try and treat everyone regardless of their prognosis of improvement or cure. We're all going to die someday, sometimes our actions move that date earlier and we should bear some consequence, prolonging it by a few months to a year with tens of thousands of dollars in treatment and care just isn't always going to be good use of tax payer money. You think we can get a system like that? Because if the alternative is we treat anyone and everyone for anything and everything all the time every time our financial day or reckoning is going to hit the fan alot faster and I don't want that.


Do you support the ending of corn and sugar subsidies?

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 01:44 PM
quote:
Do you support the ending of corn and sugar subsidies?


So long as those sectors aren't being harmed by imports.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 01:49 PM
quote:
Sorry to hear that - teachers are not respected and paid anything near what they deserve. Teaching is a tough, important, and honorable profession.


It is difficult, but can be rewarding work for those to choose that path. Part of the difficulty is coming from increasingly detached parents and lack of involvement in their child's education and in some cases discipline. I take for granted we all know some number of teachers, a reoccurring problem my friends and family tell me about their students is the parents and the home life and the negative impact. Not much of a solution for that, just a comment, the times we live.

Teachers do only work 9-9.5 months or so and get alot of time off. It can be a good gig. I could never be around kids all day, would drive me crazy. Takes a special type to want to tolerate it all and make a positive impact.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 02:01 PM
quote:
quote:
Poor planning and not achieving a career to be able to retire comfortably is common but not the fault of the people who will end up having to pay more in taxes to them.


LOL! Poor planning for retirement is not the fault of the retiree? Itís the governmentís fault? Look everyone - Mule supports blaming the government for oneís financial situation. Heís a liberal! Mule, you and the rest of the poor planners shouldíve worked harder, end of story.

[Edited on 3/8/2018 by BoytonBrother]



It is often the gov'ts fault as in Obamacare.
Obama sold that piece of crap on lies.
"The ACA will save families over $2,500 a year" - Obama lied to the people.
The reality is that Obamacare cost families over $2,500 a year in premium increases.

Fortunately Obamacare is on life support and will die soon.
President Trump and the Republicans got rid of the individual mandate which was the life-line of Obamacare.




 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 02:19 PM
quote:
It is often the gov'ts fault as in Obamacare.


Itís never the governments fault. Stop making excuses. You have nobody to blame but yourself for not working hard enough. It didnít hurt the others you know who are doing just fine. Hasnít hurt me. If you do right, the government wonít affect your money, obviously.
Itís your fault.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 03:55 PM
quote:

People who planned their lives around having certain benefits at retirement need to have those benefits there for him. They paid into the system and they were given an expectation of certain health and retirement pay that should remain in force for them.


This was my point exactly, especially with it being a close family member. My father has been counting down to his retirement for some time now with a long-term plan he has had since the beginning of his teaching career. Now his "I retire in 2 years, with all of my promised perks and benefits" has turned into "Well, it is still up in the air, but now I may have to teach 7 more years, and no promised health benefits or pension". It just pisses me off.

[Edited on 3/8/2018 by anthonyspare]

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 03:59 PM
quote:

I want people near the age of retirement to get what is coming to them and get what they deserve and planned for, but they can contribute more as well.


I want this as well, but unfortunately the latter half of that statement isn't as true as it use to be. Yes, if you're in a long-term career or in a tenured position working for the state or fed government, but a lot of the "older" crowd has issues finding work that allows them to contribute more , sad enough, age discrimination does exist.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/8/2018 at 04:58 PM
quote:
quote:
Do you support the ending of corn and sugar subsidies?


So long as those sectors aren't being harmed by imports.


Ah, yes. If it's good for business, it must be good.

 

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