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Author: Subject: I'm Speechless

World Class Peach





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  posted on 8/15/2017 at 03:56 PM

 

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Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

 
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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/15/2017 at 03:59 PM
It's ok, man, just calm down, take a couple deep breaths, and lay it on us.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/15/2017 at 04:03 PM
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/08/15/donald-trump-entire-charlotte sville-trump-tower-q-a-sot.cnn

 

____________________
Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair

Who are all those people that he's locked away up there

Are they crazy?,

Are they sainted?

Are they zeros someone painted?,

It has never been explained since at first it was created

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/15/2017 at 04:17 PM
What is so strange is how he doubles down on stuff that is pure speculation. It's just wrong. President can't just go blowing his personal opinion all over like the whole country is the Whipping Post. Just get up there, be a statesman, condemn wrongdoing, simple statement, then back off and get back to your job. The guy is ill.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/15/2017 at 04:26 PM
He needs to go away.
 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/15/2017 at 04:29 PM
quote:
What is so strange is how he doubles down on stuff that is pure speculation. It's just wrong. President can't just go blowing his personal opinion all over like the whole country is the Whipping Post. Just get up there, be a statesman, condemn wrongdoing, simple statement, then back off and get back to your job. The guy is ill.


He doubles down on what he wants to be true and calls what is true fake news.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/15/2017 at 04:36 PM
I can't even watch him speak, he's completely inarticulate, has no point whatsoever. Grabs the folded up piece of paper out of his pocket and says "I brought it, I brought it, I brought it" three times. Like a kid who just remembered he has his homework with him after all.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/15/2017 at 05:30 PM
Here is what the Press expected before it started

The President is expected to make a statement from Trump Tower around 3:45 p.m. ET. He's wrapping up a closed-door meeting with his infrastructure team right now.

The President, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao and the Economic Council's Gary Cohen will all be in the Trump Tower lobby for the statement.

With that group, he is likely going to push infrastructure. Here's what we know about that.

Trump will talk for about 5 minutes.

He's not expected to take questions, however.

After the President leaves, Chao and Cohen will come back to answer questions.

You can watch it live above.

 

____________________
Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair

Who are all those people that he's locked away up there

Are they crazy?,

Are they sainted?

Are they zeros someone painted?,

It has never been explained since at first it was created

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/15/2017 at 06:45 PM
quote:
quote:
What is so strange is how he doubles down on stuff that is pure speculation. It's just wrong. President can't just go blowing his personal opinion all over like the whole country is the Whipping Post. Just get up there, be a statesman, condemn wrongdoing, simple statement, then back off and get back to your job. The guy is ill.


He doubles down on what he wants to be true and calls what is true fake news.


In one sentence, the above pretty much sums up who Trump is.


 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/15/2017 at 06:56 PM
I guess he doesn't know the difference between treasonous generals and a treasonous state that the confederacy was and people who fought to create this country

For those of you who align themselves with the confederacy wake up everyday with the knowledge that it was a treasonous act to create and support the confederacy

To have confederate statues in our country is celebrating treason

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 8/16/2017 at 10:33 AM
Our leader has officially gone section 8!
This ain't even about who did what. He has a mental illness.
I take no joy in saying this. The lies, the hyperbole, the focus on himself!
The dude is nuts!!!!!!!!

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/16/2017 at 11:03 AM
quote:
I guess he doesn't know the difference between treasonous generals and a treasonous state that the confederacy was and people who fought to create this country

For those of you who align themselves with the confederacy wake up everyday with the knowledge that it was a treasonous act to create and support the confederacy

To have confederate statues in our country is celebrating treason



Really not one thing you said is true.

What the Confederacy did was not deemed treason, look it up, facts are widely available.

 

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  posted on 8/16/2017 at 11:18 AM
quote:
quote:
I guess he doesn't know the difference between treasonous generals and a treasonous state that the confederacy was and people who fought to create this country

For those of you who align themselves with the confederacy wake up everyday with the knowledge that it was a treasonous act to create and support the confederacy

To have confederate statues in our country is celebrating treason



Really not one thing you said is true.

What the Confederacy did was not deemed treason, look it up, facts are widely available.


Sad you don't see a group of people fighting against their own country as treason...Interesting thinking you have

The confederacy is the definition of treason....

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/16/2017 at 03:25 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I guess he doesn't know the difference between treasonous generals and a treasonous state that the confederacy was and people who fought to create this country

For those of you who align themselves with the confederacy wake up everyday with the knowledge that it was a treasonous act to create and support the confederacy

To have confederate statues in our country is celebrating treason



Really not one thing you said is true.

What the Confederacy did was not deemed treason, look it up, facts are widely available.


Sad you don't see a group of people fighting against their own country as treason...Interesting thinking you have

The confederacy is the definition of treason....


Well sir, it is not how I see it (or you) that matters, it is how Salmon P. Chase, Chief Justice of The United States saw it back then, that did and does matter.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/16/2017 at 05:07 PM
The laws of Treason

The law of treason is very important to the American people. Gardner's Institutes, a law work published by VOORHLIS in January, 1860 pp 2, 3, 33 to 35, 323, 382, 669, 695, 382, 383, furnishes the law on this subject. On these pages the following principles and the authorities supporting them are found:

1. That the President and Congress have the whole of the political, national and inter-state power of the Union, a perpetual Government making the people of the United States one nation, with the States municipal bodies with mere local sovereignty, and having no power to make compacts or agreements ot any kind without the consent of Congress.

2. That the States have no power to form a Confederacy within the Union composed of any of its States.

3. That no State or Confederacy has a right to organize an army or navy, or to make war, or to invade any other State by military power, or to seek to divice and disrupt the Union of our thirty-four States, or to change our Government, except by an amendment of the National Constitution in the mode pointed out by it. Any such act is rebellion -- it is treason.

4. That all attempts to defeat, by force or menace, the execution of any act of Congress in any of our thirty-four States, or to seize, for the use of any State, or the Southern Confederacy, any fort, Custom house, mint, or vessel of the Union, or to collect duties, except for the national treasury, and in pursuance of any act of Congress, and all efforts to break up the Union by menace or force, all those acts are, by our law, treason, whether done by private persons, or armed men, or officers of a Southern Confederacy, State Legislatures or State Conventions.

5. That all the above unlawful acts are not only illegal and subject the wrong-doers to the penalties of treason, but all persons who aid the existing Southern conspiracy in the disruption of our Union, by making, selling, or transporting arms, munitions of war, clothing or supplies of men, money, or anything for the rebel armies, are traitors, if done with knowledge.

6. That any persons who, by newspaper articles, or Governors' or Mayors' proclamations or messages, or by recommending the doing of any acts of treason, shall advise a rebellion, or any act of treason which shall be carried out by levying war upon the Union, is a traitor, as any aid given, or participation by parties remote from the place of the armed meeting, makes the same treasonable, if in the smallest degree it aids and encourages the treason by levying war at a remote point.

7. That the selling of vessels, or furnishing supplies, or acting as an agent to buy them, or to borrow money for the Southern Confederacy, is an act of treason in every person knowing the object.

8. That the President is authorized to call out the whole Militia, Military and Naval power of the United States, to put down insurrection and rebellion in any State and Territory of the Union.

9. That, as Supreme Executive, he has the power, and it is his duty to put down rebellion and preserve, in full force the national Constitution and the Union

10. That secession is treason, and that all who uphold it by menace or force, or by giving aid in any degree, or in any manner, are traitors, and legally subject to capital punishment.

11. That in a representative Republic like ours no light of revolution exists, as the essence of republicanism is that the constitutional majority of votes shall rule, and not force. That in monarchies the right of rebellion in extreme cases may exist, but not in republics, where the ballot-box effects all changes the majority desire peaceably. Abandoning this doctrine, despotism or anarchy must prevail.

12. The loaning of money to the Southern Confederacy is an act of treason.

The above abstract of the principles of our law, and their application to existing facts, are furnished to guard men against treason, and capital punishment, its legal penalty. There are men in our midst who have already incurred the penalties of treason, and arc now enjoying a temporary immunity by the forbearance of the Government.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/17/2017 at 09:26 AM
There has been over 150 years of debate on this very subject, unlikely to solve it in this thread.

The leaders at the time saw that attempting to pursue convictions for treason would only sow seeds for further discontent.

The use of that phrase like you did in this thread only seems to do the same.

I'm not even a southerner, I just have happened to live in the south for the last 34 years, which may give me a different perspective than yours, California right?

From what I've read, there are multiple and many reasons things happened the way they did, but one of many reasons that Jefferson Davis was not convicted of treason, let alone even brought to trial, was that "some" felt they couldn't even prove succession was illegal and therefore treason was moot.

I realize that is a tiny point in all the surrounding circumstances, as I said, there is over 150 years of debate on this, some have made it their entire life studying and debating, I have not.

I wish TanDan were still around, I would be curious to hear/read what he would have to say on this.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/17/2017 at 09:47 AM
quote:
There has been over 150 years of debate on this very subject, unlikely to solve it in this thread.

The leaders at the time saw that attempting to pursue convictions for treason would only sow seeds for further discontent.

The use of that phrase like you did in this thread only seems to do the same.

I'm not even a southerner, I just have happened to live in the south for the last 34 years, which may give me a different perspective than yours, California right?

From what I've read, there are multiple and many reasons things happened the way they did, but one of many reasons that Jefferson Davis was not convicted of treason, let alone even brought to trial, was that "some" felt they couldn't even prove succession was illegal and therefore treason was moot.

I realize that is a tiny point in all the surrounding circumstances, as I said, there is over 150 years of debate on this, some have made it their entire life studying and debating, I have not.

I wish TanDan were still around, I would be curious to hear/read what he would have to say on this.


Because Lincoln didn't want to continue to divide the country he pardon most except those who were involved with war crimes...mistreatment of prisoners...etc

Just because we didn't pursue treason at the end of the war doesn't cover up the fact that the secession was an act of treason

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 8/17/2017 at 09:47 AM
When Davis was indicted on a charge of treason in the federal court system, he stood before US Supreme Court Chief Justice Salmon Chase, who was acting as a circuit judge at the time. Chase preferred to dismiss the treason charges, but another judge, John Underwood, wouldnít agree to it. Davisís defense team argued that he had already been punished by the 14th Amendment, which stopped him from serving in public office in the future.

As a former US House and Senate member before the war, Davis had taken an oath of allegiance to support the Constitution of the United States. Under the 14th Amendment, anyone who has taken such an oath and engaged in insurrection against the US cannot hold public office. According to Davisís lawyers, that inability to hold public office under the 14th Amendment constituted punishment for his rebellious actions. To prosecute him for treason for the same rebellious actions would constitute double jeopardy under the 5th Amendment. Therefore, his lawyers argued, he could not be legally tried for treason.

However, the Chief Justice gave the Davis team another interesting argument for dropping the treason charge. Chase asked if a person could be prosecuted for treason against the US if he were not a US citizen. Clearly, no. Then Chase asked if there was a reference to the concept of a US citizen in the Constitution. Again, there was not. A person could only be a citizen of his state. Therefore, by proving that the US had no citizens, Davis couldnít be tried for treason against the US. It was a clever argument that has never been used again as far as we know.

Although a deadlocked case in the district court would have automatically gone to the Supreme Court, it ultimately didnít matter. President Andrew Johnson pardoned everyone who fought for the Confederacy on December 25, 1868, as long as they applied for the pardon. Although former officials of the Confederacy still couldnít hold office or vote, they were now immune from prosecution for treason. In some circles, there wasnít much appetite for trying Davis for treason anyway. Officials of the US government were afraid that Davis would prove that the Southís secession had been legal. However, the various amnesty provisions passed at that time never reinstated Davisís citizenship. His citizenship rights were finally restored in 1978 by President Jimmy Carter.

 

____________________
Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair

Who are all those people that he's locked away up there

Are they crazy?,

Are they sainted?

Are they zeros someone painted?,

It has never been explained since at first it was created

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/17/2017 at 10:40 AM
goldtop, I think you meant to say Johnson not Lincoln.

Anyhow, 150 + years of debate has not cleared this up, neither will this thread, your opinion may differ.

Bringing it up to link it to a denunciation and repudiation of what that deranged young man from Ohio did with his car is one thing.

Bringing it up to somehow make southerners or descendants of those that fought for the confederacy feel terrible about their heritage, is something quite different.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/17/2017 at 10:55 AM
quote:
goldtop, I think you meant to say Johnson not Lincoln.

Anyhow, 150 + years of debate has not cleared this up, neither will this thread, your opinion may differ.

Bringing it up to link it to a denunciation and repudiation of what that deranged young man from Ohio did with his car is one thing.

Bringing it up to somehow make southerners or descendants of those that fought for the confederacy feel terrible about their heritage, is something quite different.


Yes Johnson did the final pardon but Lincoln wasn't interested in keeping the nation divided and only pursed war criminals...look it up

To defend the confederacy is to defend the institution of Slavery....it is what it simply is...there isn't a culture that has lived that doesn't have some kind of a stain on its heritage....

I'm Italian we're all know for being "connected"...well I'm not connected but I do know people who have been or are...that's not a stain on me...that's on them...That's' also not a stain on my entire culture it is a fact that it is a part of where my family comes from...the very heart of it Sicily....so do I cry about it...no I accept that it is a stain on those who choose to participate but its not a stain on me

I want no part of it but it will always follow me around and be connected to my past....even though I don't have a part of it

[Edited on 8/17/2017 by goldtop]

[Edited on 8/17/2017 by goldtop]

 

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