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Author: Subject: A Question For The Sports Fans

Zen Peach





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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 11:54 AM
Is it worth continuing to follow a team that's incapable of winning?
 
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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 12:12 PM
Go Pack Go

But seriously, ask Cubs fans.

 

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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 12:13 PM
In some ways I think your question is not valid, the way you worded it.

Die hard fans, who grew up rooting for a team, in some ways do not have the option to not root for that team, regardless of how bad they are, especially if they still live in or around that team, surrounded by like minded fans.

It becomes more complicated if that fan moves away from that city, (my situation.) My loyalty to that team has not faded, but I certainly have the option to not broadcast that loyalty while surrounded by people who do not share that loyalty.

If you follow a team that has provided years and years of disappointment, eventually you wear it somewhat like a badge, sadly.

 

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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 12:42 PM
I've taken my Packers fandom everywhere I've moved, and I typically watch them win or lose. I've been fortunate to witness a very successful period for the team since the early 1990s. But I have fun watching the team even when they lose - it's about the journey. Professional sports fandom is irrational - to paraphrase Jerry Seinfeld, you are rooting for laundry. Many franchises would move to another city if it meant more profit, fans be damned (see Rams, Chargers, Raiders, Colts).

But that's not entirely fair for some franchises, some go deeper into the community and cultural identity. The Green Bay Packers and, to a lesser extent, the Milwaukee Brewers, are so tied to Wisconsin identity, they'll never go anywhere. There are a handful of other franchises that have deep decades-long ties with their respective cities that defy winning or losing: the Celtics, Bruins, NY Rangers, Knicks, Yankees, Steelers, St Louis Cardinals. Then, there are some franchises, successful and unsuccessful, that could move tomorrow and no one would notice.

For competitive athletes themselves, they want to win of course, but for fans, a day at the ballpark can be just as fun in a loss as a win (well, maybe not in Chicago in December). But, as many Jets fans have told me at the end of a season to curb their own disappointment, "they're not paying me to watch". Cubs fans developed an identity that was so tied up with losing that it was hard to reckon when they actually won it all, but I'm sure they'd tell you it was worth all of the years of heartache. Same with the Red Sox.

The worst is when a team is so poorly managed that winning is impossible. The Chicago Bears seem stuck in upper management mess. The 49ers chased success right out the door. The Cleveland Browns and Buffalo Bills might as well be managed by a family of possums.

I assume you are talking about the Detroit Lions. For starting 1-3, they are in a pretty decent spot that Jacksonville Jaguars fans (if there actually are any other than Derek Trucks) would love to be in. They could even lose on Sunday and still make the playoffs. Every season 31 NFL teams' fans are going to be disappointed, at least there's a reason to watch your team this week. But, then again, they aren't paying you to watch.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 01:47 PM
quote:
I've taken my Packers fandom everywhere I've moved, and I typically watch them win or lose. I've been fortunate to witness a very successful period for the team since the early 1990s. But I have fun watching the team even when they lose - it's about the journey. Professional sports fandom is irrational - to paraphrase Jerry Seinfeld, you are rooting for laundry. Many franchises would move to another city if it meant more profit, fans be damned (see Rams, Chargers, Raiders, Colts).

But that's not entirely fair for some franchises, some go deeper into the community and cultural identity. The Green Bay Packers and, to a lesser extent, the Milwaukee Brewers, are so tied to Wisconsin identity, they'll never go anywhere. There are a handful of other franchises that have deep decades-long ties with their respective cities that defy winning or losing: the Celtics, Bruins, NY Rangers, Knicks, Yankees, Steelers, St Louis Cardinals. Then, there are some franchises, successful and unsuccessful, that could move tomorrow and no one would notice.

For competitive athletes themselves, they want to win of course, but for fans, a day at the ballpark can be just as fun in a loss as a win (well, maybe not in Chicago in December). But, as many Jets fans have told me at the end of a season to curb their own disappointment, "they're not paying me to watch". Cubs fans developed an identity that was so tied up with losing that it was hard to reckon when they actually won it all, but I'm sure they'd tell you it was worth all of the years of heartache. Same with the Red Sox.

The worst is when a team is so poorly managed that winning is impossible. The Chicago Bears seem stuck in upper management mess. The 49ers chased success right out the door. The Cleveland Browns and Buffalo Bills might as well be managed by a family of possums.

I assume you are talking about the Detroit Lions. For starting 1-3, they are in a pretty decent spot that Jacksonville Jaguars fans (if there actually are any other than Derek Trucks) would love to be in. They could even lose on Sunday and still make the playoffs. Every season 31 NFL teams' fans are going to be disappointed, at least there's a reason to watch your team this week. But, then again, they aren't paying you to watch.


I am talking about the Lions. It has been a decent season. It'll be nice to have a winning record at the end of the season (They might even put up a banner for it). I like that it is a winner take all season finale but at the same time they are the same old Lions who can't come through and win the games that matter the most. This isn't a new problem it has been a problem since 1957. Only team in the NFL since in the Super Bowl era that has been a franchise for every season to not make a Super Bowl.

Being a Detroit sports fan in my lifetime has had its ups and downs. The Tigers have made two world series but also had one of the worst seasons in MLB history (2003). The Pistons have won three NBA finals and made 6 straight Eastern Conference finals (2003-2008). Lastly the Red Wings have won 4 Stanley Cups and have made been to the playoffs every year since 1991. I follow my teams and understand there are cycles in sports but it would be nice if the Lions could just win when it matters.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 02:25 PM
quote:
Only team in the NFL since in the Super Bowl era that has been a franchise for every season to not make a Super Bowl.



Well, yes, I guess technically the Browns took 3 years off after Modell moved the team. But at least you didn't have to fight to keep a team that became much worse, while your old franchise won 2 Super Bowls and your old coach won 4 Super Bowls. The Browns are a quagmire. The only thing they had going for them were their original, old school uniforms, and now they don't even have those.

But I hear ya, I feel like the Lions are still trying to get the Matt Millen and Jim Schwartz stink off of them. As a Packers fan, I will say, I am always much more worried about playing the Lions, who have a lot of fight and untapped talent. The Vikings are always destined to implode.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 05:21 PM
IMO once you choose a team you should be loyal until death unless the team moves away from where you live. If someone roots for out of state teams they should never change allegiances.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 06:12 PM
quote:
Go Pack Go

But seriously, ask Cubs fans.


I'm one (a Cubs fan) and you're damn right it's worth the wait!!!!

My wife would ask me through the years, something like, why don't you pick a different team, they never win. I always said I'm not changing now only to have them win one.

I used to tell people I'm a Cubs fan through thick and thin, but I'm still waiting on the thick.

Not waiting anymore.

 

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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 07:48 PM
Roll Tide!!!!!
 

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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 08:30 PM
My grandfather sailed into Ellis Island in 1898. Soon
after he discovered American Baseball and whatever early incarnation of the NY Giants existed. After that there was one immutable family rule - you rooted for the Giants no matter what.

I was only 6 when Bobby Richardson snared McCoveys liner to end the 1962 World Series. My soon to be dead and somewhat senile Grandfather went after the TV with a hammer cursing "that son of a bitch."

My dad and I spent the 60's and early 70's staying up to all hours of the night listening for the 2x per hr scores on WINS. Close but no cigar. Never saw the Giants in the WS again after 1962 until they lost to the Angels in 2002 WS right after my dad died.

Recently I saw the Giants win the WS three times. It had none of the joy that those 2AM nights in the 60's and 70's listening to my team fall short year after year.
'
So my answer is: you root for your team. It is family

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2016 at 10:05 PM
I hear ya, IP. Being a Lions fan has to be one of the hardest things to do year over year.

Temper your expectations to expect nothing and have the most fun you can. Eventually it might come the Lions way.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2016 at 11:58 AM
quote:
quote:
Only team in the NFL since in the Super Bowl era that has been a franchise for every season to not make a Super Bowl.



Well, yes, I guess technically the Browns took 3 years off after Modell moved the team. But at least you didn't have to fight to keep a team that became much worse, while your old franchise won 2 Super Bowls and your old coach won 4 Super Bowls. The Browns are a quagmire. The only thing they had going for them were their original, old school uniforms, and now they don't even have those.

But I hear ya, I feel like the Lions are still trying to get the Matt Millen and Jim Schwartz stink off of them. As a Packers fan, I will say, I am always much more worried about playing the Lions, who have a lot of fight and untapped talent. The Vikings are always destined to implode.


I have a lot of respect for Browns fans. I don't know how they do it. Before the move though they had eras of success. In the late 80's they made three AFC Championship games. They also appeared in two NFL Championship games in the era before the merger. Of course it sucks for the fans that they lost all of those but they have won multiple playoff games.

A cool stat I found is that the Lions and Browns each have 4 NFL Championships. Only 7 teams have more championships than the Lions and Browns. As a bonus the Vikings still have 0 championships.

[Edited on 12/28/2016 by IPowrie]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2016 at 12:35 PM
I've been a fan of the Steelers, Braves, and Sixers. I will not waver!!!
When people ask if chose these teams while they're winning I throw up the following names:
Bubby Brister, Cliff Stoubt, Biff Pocaroba and Rafael Ramirez

I takes a strong person to root for a team when these players are leading the way.

 

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  posted on 12/28/2016 at 12:44 PM
quote:
I have a lot of respect for Browns fans. I don't know how they do it. Before the move though they had eras of success. In the late 80's they made three AFC Championship games. They also appeared in two NFL Championship games in the era before the merger. Of course it sucks for the fans that they lost all of those but they have won multiple playoff games.

A cool stat I found is that the Lions and Browns each have 4 NFL Championships. Only 7 teams have more championships than the Lions and Browns. As a bonus the Vikings still have 0 championships.



Totally, The Browns had a lot of success in the 1940s-1960s (the 1980s is remembered mostly for the Browns heart breakers). They mopped up in the AAFC and then won 3 NFL championships in 6 years upon joining the NFL in 1950 (and another in 1964 after Paul Brown was fired and went on to co-found the Bengals downstate, purposefully using a similar color scheme as his old club).

Interesting history - the Cleveland Browns, founded in 1944 as part of the AAFC, were more popular than their NFL neighbor, the 1945 champion Cleveland Rams. This was largely due to coach and GM, Paul Brown, who already made a name for himself at OSU causing fans to vote the new team be named after him rather than his own suggestion, The Panthers. Financial struggles forced the Rams to become the first NFL team to play west of the the Mississippi when they moved to LA (also, the first team to integrate, and have a design on their helmet). In 1949 the AAFC folded, and the Browns, SF 49ers, and now-defunct Baltimore Colts (no relation to the current Baltimore/Indy Colts) joined the NFL. The Browns won the NFL title in their first season, against their old neighbors, the LA Rams.

And actually, technically, the Minnesota Vikings won the 1970 NFL title (against the Cleveland Browns), but lost the Super Bowl, to the AFL's KC Chiefs. Since it was the last season before the complete AFL-NFL merger, few remember, including many Vikings fans, that they actually won an NFL title since it was obscured by their loss in in the Super Bowl (as well as 3 other SB losses that decade). So let's just keep that to ourselves

 

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  posted on 12/28/2016 at 01:03 PM
This is kind of in the same realm , just going off topic for a second and they I will proceed to the main topic.

Are you more of a fan of players or a team?
Me, team first always. I don't band wagon or chase the greats.


Interesting question , and something I thought about recently. Wont go into to details about a certain NFL team here in Indy.

I guess its all about how strong your "fandom" is to that team or allegiance I guess. Could be subjective to each individual.


I was born and raised in Indiana till about 6 .Moved to Wisconsin till about 10 and then back to Indiana where I have currently lived since. When I was in Wis(mid to late 70's) that's when I started to get into sports and naturally I gravitated to the local teams, Pack, Brewers and Bucks. I
had childhood friends in Wis at that time were more fans of the popular teams like the Cowboys and Steelers. Moved back to Indiana early 80's, still rooted for my Wisoconsin teams. Colts moved heer in 1984 and latched on to them as my main team, but still follow the Packers. It was easier to follow the Colts since they were local and everything for the most part was right there. Did not have the internet and social media to feel like you were connected and in the know like we are now.



 

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  posted on 12/28/2016 at 01:25 PM
I grew up in Wisconsin as well, so my affiliations are mostly there - Packers, Brewers, and I keep an eye on the Bucks now and then. I admit that I did follow the Utah Jazz in the 1990s - I loved watching Stockton-Malone grind out those pick & rolls, but I haven't thought about that team since they both retired. So I'll root for a player if I dig watching them, but I wouldn't call their team "mine". I knew a guy in college who, when asked if he would ever move from WI responded, with complete sincerity, "Why? All of my teams are here."

People forget how good the Bucks were for their first 20 years - fastest team to a championship with Lou Alcindor in 1971. They always came up just short of the Pistons, 76ers, and Celtics in the 1980s. But after years of fighting to get the 8th seed (also know as the "Bucksth seed") in the East, today the Bucks are pretty low on the WI sports pecking order, which goes: Packers > UW Football > Brewers > UW Basketball > UW Hockey > Bucks . Things are looking up as long as they can hold onto and build around The Greek Freak.

 

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  posted on 12/28/2016 at 02:23 PM
as a long suffring NY Ranger fan (since 1968) I can tell you that when your team finally wins, it's worth it.
The Rangers may never win another cup in my lifetime (I hope they do), but at least I can say I saw one.

 

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  posted on 12/28/2016 at 03:11 PM
good question---not sure for better or worse and i say worse am a Jets fan and unfortunately have made my son a Jets fan. Probably a worse run franchise than Cleveland Browns, and some other less fortunate teams out in the world.

Our owner is about the biggest clown walking the face of the earth but he inherited lots of money and bought a football team from Leon Hess who was also completely uninterested in football. We change coaches and GMs every few years, invest in over the hill players, give long-term contracts to marginal guys and unfortunately play in the same division as Tom Brady and Bill Belachek so we never have a chance of winning our division and are competing for a wild card spot every year.

But i have been a season ticket holder since 1968 when my dad had tickets and i will remain a season ticket holder although i am too **** ing old and bored to attend more than one or two games a year.

Putting winning aside, it has helped bond a relationship with my son and we have attended games together for his 29 years of life putting aside the first 3 or 4 years. We still have a great time tailgating and spending great time together which is what its all about.

I cannot remember the last home playoff game--probably before Tom Brady which is long ago. We now have the worst team in the league and i would not even know where to begin to fix things.

But i will always be a Jets fan and wear their colors in NYC.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2016 at 03:33 PM
quote:
We now have the worst team in the league and i would not even know where to begin to fix things.

But i will always be a Jets fan and wear their colors in NYC.


Jets fans always think they are suffering worse than anyone. Cleveland Browns are, hands down, the worst run NFL franchise. Since 1999 they have had exactly 127 head coaches and exactly 337 starting QBs (look it up, it's true). Jacksonville right after that, that's a team without a history or a present, and not much of a future. Buffalo Bills have the longest current playoff drought at 17 years - the Flutie Curse. SF is back down in the basement as well.

The Jets might not have the best upper management, but they haven't been so bad, they've had some great moments just in the last 20 seasons (Vinny and the Monday Night Miracle!). It was just a few years ago the Jets went to consecutive AFC Championship Games (another in 1998), and in 2010 defeated the NE Patriots in the playoffs - that had to be pretty sweet. There are probably a few Lions fans that would trade places. I really thought the Jets could build on last season's 10-6 record, but they refused to pay the QB that got them there, or get a decent one to replace him.

But again, it ain't always about your team winning, it's about grilling brats in the parking lot. I'll never expect the Brewers to win a Series, but I'll always enjoy catching a day at the ball park.

 

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  posted on 12/28/2016 at 03:54 PM
well said Porkchop

Its about the bonding and the fun and as long as you have that it is still great and you do get to enjoy those rare fun seasons and games when good things happen. Someday the Pats will have a losing season. Not sure when but some day.

 

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  posted on 12/28/2016 at 03:58 PM
quote:
Cleveland Browns are, hands down, the worst run NFL franchise. Since 1999 they have had exactly 127 head coaches and exactly 337 starting QBs (look it up, it's true). Jacksonville right after that, that's a team without a history or a present, and not much of a future.


Ha, ha, ha - I grew up in Ohio as a Browns fan, Brian Sipe Cardiac Kids - all that.

Moved to Jacksonville in 1984. Tried the best I could to follow my Brownies from the deep south.

Then, in the middle of the night in 1995, the dreaded Art Modell moved my team to Baltimore.

Coincidentally, the Jaguars appeared that same year and there was no team in Cleveland for a few years.

All that is ancient, sad and sore history.

Now I follow both, from even further south.

 

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  posted on 12/30/2016 at 12:45 AM
quote:
I hear ya, IP. Being a Lions fan has to be one of the hardest things to do year over year.

Temper your expectations to expect nothing and have the most fun you can. Eventually it might come the Lions way.


Had low expectations until we took over first place. Then it changed to maybe we can host and win a playoff game. That still could happen.

The most fun I've had recently as a sports fan has been attending the local semi-pro soccer games. The fans walk to the stadium from a local bar. It's a good atmosphere inside the stadium and a nice way to spend a summer evening.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 1/1/2017 at 11:38 PM
Stick with your team thick or thin.

Grew up in Chicago but moved away 30 years ago. Still have family there and just got back from a visit. Yep first stop was Wrigley Field

I'm in the heart of Steelers/Ravens/Penguins/Orioles country but when asked who do you root for.

My Answer:

Baseball The Cubs.......yea I cried when they won. Grew up on Addison. My dad took me there going back to the 60's and so I ,taking my kids when my son was 6 months old, he's 23 now.

Hockey The Blackhawks....going back to Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita......2010, 2013 and 2015 were sweet

Football Da Bears......Dick Butkus and Gale Sayers thru Sweetness.....I'll take 1985 forever

Basketball.........Yes thank you Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen in the 90's but remember Jerry Sloan and Norman Van Lier


Yep stick with your team and wear your colors proudly........dam Packers. lol

 

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  posted on 1/3/2017 at 09:37 AM
I think I started watching NFL football around 1985, I was 10. It could've been 1984 because I remember the Washington - Oakland Superbowl.

I grew up a Dallas Cowboy fan because somebody in my family was a Cowboy fan from the glory days and I was brain washed. But in this mid 80s era of Cowboy football, the sun had set on them. They still had many of the greats, Too Tall, Tony D, Danny White, Randy White, I think Drew Pearson had retired. Those guys were past their prime and it showed. And I knew not of their former glory first hand, I watched old VHS tapes of their greatness from years past. The product I was watching on the field was lucky to finish above .500.

As I got into 7th and 8th grade I really started getting into them, just as they were hitting rock bottom. It was different then, I wrote the team letters and they would send me all kind of black and white 8 x 10 autographed photos personalized to me. I have Tom Landry, Tex Schramm, Hershel Walker. They sent me cool free stuff for no reason other than I took the time to write. I subscribed to Dallas Cowboy Weekly which I anxiously awaited for in the mail each week. My Dad took me to a Dallas - Cleveland game in 1988, we got their super early to watch warmups. It was awesome! Seeing all the players on the field I idolized. We also had one of those huge metal satellite dishes behind our garage since my Dad was partners with an early satellite dish companies. We could go to like satellite F9 on Sunday and watch a feed of the game. I drive by my old house, the dish is still there...what an eyesore LOL!

In the late 80s the Cowboys sucked. I got made fun of at school for wearing their shirts. I cried when Randall Cunningham faked a kneel down and instead threw a meaningless TD pass just to run the score up. I saw Tom Landry get fired. I saw Hershel get traded away. I stayed up late for MNF to see Steve Walsh, not Troy Aikman, give the Cowboys their only win of 1989.

Things started to become more interesting in the early 90s. More wins, better players. Enthusiasm! In 1992 they beat the big bad 49ers at Candlestick in the NFC Championship game. I was a senior in high school but had to leave the room so nobody saw the tears in my eyes. It meant so much.

Then the Cowboys were good all the time. There wasn't much of a question what games they would win or if they would make the playoffs. Superbowls became the expectation. More people started wearing Dallas Cowboy stuff. America's team from two decades prior was reborn.

My interest actually started to fade by the 3rd super bowl. I don't what it was, but it wasn't quite as fun as it used to be. I didn't watch all the games any more. I didn't really even care who won half the time. It's hard to put a finger on why this happened, whatever it is it's the opposite of frontrunning. I guess I just liked rooting for the underdog. I liked trying to beat teams that most people said you couldn't. I liked trying to claw out of the basement. But then once they reached the mountain top and were able to stay there, guess it just wasn't what I was in it for any longer. No now I am not a fan of Dallas or any NFL team, just a fan of the sport in general.

So maybe be careful, you might end up liking your lovable losers more than your would-be playoff mainstays, although admittedly I'm the exception to most fans of teams I'm sure. Not many fans would walk away from their team once they got good, a fan that does that must be a rare sports anomaly.


[Edited on 1/3/2017 by nebish]

 
 


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