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Author: Subject: Merry Christmas Carrier employees

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2016 at 09:00 AM
quote:
Anyone know what the "consequences" will be for Trump clothes made overseas ?


Good question. Should the tariffs only apply to companies that tried to stay in the US and are now considering leaving? Or should the tariffs apply as well to goods produced by companies like Trump's that never even bothered to experiment with US production and simply sought out the cheapest labor market? Or should the tariffs apply to all non US produced goods? Or should Donald Trump get an exception to all rules, regulations and laws?

What about other products like movies or music? Should directors be forced to shoot in America or have taxes added to US runs of their movies? What about music? The Stones new album was recorded in London, yet the band pretty much operates out of the US.

There should be some new kind of sustained effort to create jobs in rural America but the tariff policy could have serious long term reverberations. Foreign companies and investors might ignore the US market entirely and devote their attention to building new markets abroad. Also providing government incentives to companies that are not able to compete without subsidization is simply bad economic policy. Short term it might raise spirits but for these local economies to thrive again people are going to have to stay in school and get retrained.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2016 at 10:50 AM
quote:
quote:
Anyone know what the "consequences" will be for Trump clothes made overseas ?


Good question. Should the tariffs only apply to companies that tried to stay in the US and are now considering leaving? Or should the tariffs apply as well to goods produced by companies like Trump's that never even bothered to experiment with US production and simply sought out the cheapest labor market? Or should the tariffs apply to all non US produced goods? Or should Donald Trump get an exception to all rules, regulations and laws?

What about other products like movies or music? Should directors be forced to shoot in America or have taxes added to US runs of their movies? What about music? The Stones new album was recorded in London, yet the band pretty much operates out of the US.

There should be some new kind of sustained effort to create jobs in rural America but the tariff policy could have serious long term reverberations. Foreign companies and investors might ignore the US market entirely and devote their attention to building new markets abroad. Also providing government incentives to companies that are not able to compete without subsidization is simply bad economic policy. Short term it might raise spirits but for these local economies to thrive again people are going to have to stay in school and get retrained.



I strongly disagree about foreign companies and investors ignoring the US market, I think it would be quite the opposite. Yes there are good consumer markets around the globe, China of course, but the US is either right there or still tops in several categories. Look at Kia, they sell more cars in the US than they do their home country of Korea. Companies can not abandon this market, it is impossible.

If we told Kia they must pay a tariff on cars they build in Korea that they sell here, what do you think would happen? Do you honestly think they will say "screw you USA" and lose annual sales of almost a million cars? Hell no. What company could do that? Instead they would seek a way to avoid the tariff and you know how they do that? They build more cars here.

Same can apply to Ford, GM and Chrysler. We all know they build plenty of vehicles in Mexico and Canada and increasingly Asia. Yep, good old Chevy, as American as apple pie right? Go take a walk on a GM lot, you'll see Buicks made in Korea, Silverado trucks made in Mexico. They must play by the same rules as we implament for foreign companies.

Stay in school and get retrained?

Did you read the quote from the one Carrier worker, she makes more than her daughter who has a bachelors degree and works in the medical field and makes a third less!

There is no better way to create and sustain a middle class living than manufacturing jobs, adding value to a product, creating something from a collection of parts or rare materials.

Retrain people? People who lose the opportunity of a manufacturing job, have those people funnel into a field that pays less? Pay more for the education only to make less. And where are these magic fields of employment that need large numbers of people that don't already have a bottle neck of applicants? Maybe a call center? Service jobs simply do not, in total, create the type of opportunities necessary. Everyone is supposed to go into teaching, or healthcare? We are told that the tech industry is sorely hurting for qualified labor, to the point that they must rely upon foreign workers to fill their positions. Well, this isn't an overnight problem. We've had decades now to teach our kids at high school and colleges and why is there still a shortage of these workers?

The fact remains, that no amount of retraining is going to provide enough work at a substantial enough pay rate to make up for what a manufacturing job can.

Clothes?

Sure Trump's clothing line should be subjected to tariffs.

What about all those textile plants in the south? Maybe they didn't pay great, but isn't a job at one of those facilities better than providing welfare for the people that used to work there and now have limited to no other opportunities. Building furniture, same thing.

Movies and music. Good question and I don't have a thought on that. I have seen DVDs and CDs with a label on them that says "made in Mexico"...why can't we make those here? We absolutely can. Even if it doesn't employ alot of people, sometimes it is just as much about the corporate investment it takes to build a facility, fill it with machinery and providing a tax base for a community as much as it is about the actual job(s) it creates.

I think for too long, we've been taught in economics classes and for too long we've had talking heads on TV and radio say "this is how you do things" - it works in theory and it works for those who own the capital. But how does it work for the individual who seeks employment? The theory that outsourcing can benefit the worker who lost their job in one field because now they can be more productive best utilizing their skills in another field. That just does not work here. If you are building ladders at a Warner Ladder plant and they close and start making those ladders in Mexico, tell me, what are the hundreds of laid off workers supposed to do with no other sources of employment in their town? Move? OK. But many towns face the same challenges. Everyone is supposed to move to the growing parts of the country to seek employment and then what is left behind?

The United States has seriously been hurt by the access that cheap foreign labor and little to no environmental or workplace safety standards that the many countries around the world is offering. Corporations love it, their profits explode. The foreign countries themselves benefit as now their people have jobs, it creates a middle class in other nations...all by taking food off the table of American citizens. We've created a middle class in China at the expense of our middle class.

We all live in different parts of the country so we likely see different things and our first hand knowledge may be limited to what we read or see on the news. Again, you don't think that Donald Trump won Democrat stronghold states like PA, WI, MI because the current trade and economic policy is working do you? Of course not. It has failed those people. The same old wasn't going to cut it any more. For decades now we've been undermining good paying jobs with bad trade deals that benefit the corporations and foreign countries first and foremost. It is about damn time that somebody stands up for those left behind and forgotten workers that have been thrown away.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2016 at 12:41 PM
I'm sounding like a broken record; but the biggest impediment to establishing good manufacturing jobs is the tying of health care to employment. The rest of the world wither has universal care or no care. It is the major dollar cost in inequality between nations
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/6/2016 at 12:43 PM
quote:
Anyone know what the "consequences" will be for Trump clothes made overseas ?


That's but one of the more interesting conflicts-of-interest and anomalies present when it comes to the PEOTUS.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 12/7/2016 at 02:23 PM
How about the next time Trump tells a privately owned company how they had better do business, the CEO says "When trump brings all his foreign made clothing lines back here I might take him seriously. Until then he can kiss my ....."

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2016 at 08:07 PM
quote:
How about the next time Trump tells a privately owned company how they had better do business, the CEO says "When trump brings all his foreign made clothing lines back here I might take him seriously. Until then he can kiss my ....."


He should be called out for that.

Now he might say something like "the capacity and ability to make this clothing line doesn't exist in the US right now...I wish I could". Which is BS. Bill O'Reilly once said something similar when he was asked why his Factor crap wasn't made in the USA.

You can buy men's suits and women's dresses in the USA. You can buy nice dress shoes made here. All that O'Reilly crap, like ceramic mugs and stuff, hats, you can have all that stuff made here.

I agree, Trump should 100% lead by example on this.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 12/7/2016 at 09:55 PM
Obama: You didn't build that.
Trump: I'll tell you how to run that.
Really not much difference.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/7/2016 at 11:27 PM
quote:
Obama: You didn't build that.
Trump: I'll tell you how to run that.
Really not much difference.


Before I say why I think those two statements are quite different, do you want to say why you think they are really not much different?

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 12:01 PM
quote:
quote:
Obama: You didn't build that.
Trump: I'll tell you how to run that.
Really not much difference.


Before I say why I think those two statements are quite different, do you want to say why you think they are really not much different?



I don't want to put words in your mouth, but maybe you are saying that neither one of them knew or knows what they are talking about? Obama from the standpoint of never creating a business and trying to establish and grow it with all the sacrifices and challenges it entails. And for Trump, telling businesses how we wants them to operate while not following his own advice with his own business decisions. That it?

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 12:03 PM
Didn't Obama have to give up his blackberry? Could somebody please take away the twitter account from Trump?

Now he attacks Chuck Jones, Union President representing Carrier employees.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 12:20 PM
quote:
Didn't Obama have to give up his blackberry? Could somebody please take away the twitter account from Trump?

Now he attacks Chuck Jones, Union President representing Carrier employees.
No way. He's just keeping it real. Shaking things up. Breaking the mold. He should be neither stifled nor restricted in any way.

 

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This one goes to eleven...

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 12:33 PM
quote:
quote:
Obama: You didn't build that.
Trump: I'll tell you how to run that.
Really not much difference.
Before I say why I think those two statements are quite different, do you want to say why you think they are really not much different?
They may be different in meaning, but they come from the same distorted view that the President and Federal gov't should have granular control over individual company actions, in what's supposed to be a free market.

I'm all for the elimination of taxes on business (they're a fraud in the first place), and the reduction/simplification of regulation, both with the goal of making conditions for free enterprise as enticing as possible in the US. But beyond setting favorable conditions for all, the individually-targeted incentives or punishment is just a continuation of crony capitalism.

 

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uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 12:47 PM
quote:
Didn't Obama have to give up his blackberry? Could somebody please take away the twitter account from Trump?

Now he attacks Chuck Jones, Union President representing Carrier employees.


X2

Seems it's in his makeup to always attempt to get the last word in when someone tests him...facts be damned. Tweets is an easy delivery system for him.

Would rather see him do press conferences than hide behind tweets. I just don't think twitter is the proper way for the pres elect or a pres to communicate with the public.

I'm not convinced that he will be able to conduct a profesional, articulate, substantive, and non-combative press conference. He's done a good job trashing the media which lowers the expectations for his believers. It is the press who serves one role as checks and balances on the exec office. This probably makes him uncomfortable that they would dare question his stances and versions of "facts".

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 01:41 PM
quote:
Didn't Obama have to give up his blackberry? Could somebody please take away the twitter account from Trump?

Now he attacks Chuck Jones, Union President representing Carrier employees.

___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Chuck Jones is a union boss (thug) who live in luxury off of the union members dues.
Let's see him move to Mexico.

Donald Trump uses Twitter to beat the corrupt liberal media into the dust where they belong.
By going directly to The People he gets his message out before the media has a chance to misrepresent what he actually says.

Ha ha.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 01:52 PM
quote:
It is the press who serves one role as checks and balances on the exec office.
No longer. Most gave up that duty to play cheerleader for the current administration.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 03:53 PM
quote:
quote:
Didn't Obama have to give up his blackberry? Could somebody please take away the twitter account from Trump?

Now he attacks Chuck Jones, Union President representing Carrier employees.

___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Chuck Jones is a union boss (thug) who live in luxury off of the union members dues.
Let's see him move to Mexico.

Donald Trump uses Twitter to beat the corrupt liberal media into the dust where they belong.
By going directly to The People he gets his message out before the media has a chance to misrepresent what he actually says.

Ha ha.



I find it interesting that you find only Republicans worthy of wealth, and they are worthy of that wealth no matter how it was obtained.

But Democrats are never worthy of wealth in your world. Apparently, for whatever reason, in your world there has never been a Democrat who has become wealthy through legitimate means.

Actually, it's only interesting because it is so predictable from you.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 04:20 PM
quote:
quote:
It is the press who serves one role as checks and balances on the exec office.
No longer. Most gave up that duty to play cheerleader for the current administration.


Interesting. Can you list maybe a half dozen or so of the major media sources / outlets that you feel fit your statement?

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 04:45 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Didn't Obama have to give up his blackberry? Could somebody please take away the twitter account from Trump?

Now he attacks Chuck Jones, Union President representing Carrier employees.

___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Chuck Jones is a union boss (thug) who live in luxury off of the union members dues.
Let's see him move to Mexico.

Donald Trump uses Twitter to beat the corrupt liberal media into the dust where they belong.
By going directly to The People he gets his message out before the media has a chance to misrepresent what he actually says.

Ha ha.



I find it interesting that you find only Republicans worthy of wealth, and they are worthy of that wealth no matter how it was obtained.

But Democrats are never worthy of wealth in your world. Apparently, for whatever reason, in your world there has never been a Democrat who has become wealthy through legitimate means.

Actually, it's only interesting because it is so predictable from you.

___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Your post is your usual load of crap dripping in assumptions not based on any fact.

Or are you speaking of Donald Trump who earned his wealth through hard work or Hillary Clinton and her husband who got their wealth through taking bribes and strong-arming foreign governments and Wall Street?



 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 06:22 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
It is the press who serves one role as checks and balances on the exec office.
No longer. Most gave up that duty to play cheerleader for the current administration.
Interesting. Can you list maybe a half dozen or so of the major media sources / outlets that you feel fit your statement?
If you don't believe the major media institutions bent over backwards to give the current administration a pass in terms of scrutiny, then no list will satisfy. Think of all the media losers who missed the Trump call and you have your answer.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 07:00 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
It is the press who serves one role as checks and balances on the exec office.
No longer. Most gave up that duty to play cheerleader for the current administration.
Interesting. Can you list maybe a half dozen or so of the major media sources / outlets that you feel fit your statement?
If you don't believe the major media institutions bent over backwards to give the current administration a pass in terms of scrutiny, then no list will satisfy. Think of all the media losers who missed the Trump call and you have your answer.

___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Exactly right.
To date, only The NYT Publisher and Public Editors have issued written mea culpas.



 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 07:02 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
It is the press who serves one role as checks and balances on the exec office.
No longer. Most gave up that duty to play cheerleader for the current administration.
Interesting. Can you list maybe a half dozen or so of the major media sources / outlets that you feel fit your statement?
If you don't believe the major media institutions bent over backwards to give the current administration a pass in terms of scrutiny, then no list will satisfy. Think of all the media losers who missed the Trump call and you have your answer.


When it comes a dereliction in a situation that led to massive loss of life, the media "pass" given during the runup to the Second Iraq War was far more devastating than anything else that has come after it.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 07:29 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
It is the press who serves one role as checks and balances on the exec office.
No longer. Most gave up that duty to play cheerleader for the current administration.
Interesting. Can you list maybe a half dozen or so of the major media sources / outlets that you feel fit your statement?
If you don't believe the major media institutions bent over backwards to give the current administration a pass in terms of scrutiny, then no list will satisfy. Think of all the media losers who missed the Trump call and you have your answer.
When it comes a dereliction in a situation that led to massive loss of life, the media "pass" given during the runup to the Second Iraq War was far more devastating than anything else that has come after it.
No disagreement here. But in addition, consider all those in Congress who supported it AND had gov't intelligence to aid their decision, Hillary among them.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 08:44 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Didn't Obama have to give up his blackberry? Could somebody please take away the twitter account from Trump?

Now he attacks Chuck Jones, Union President representing Carrier employees.

___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Chuck Jones is a union boss (thug) who live in luxury off of the union members dues.
Let's see him move to Mexico.

Donald Trump uses Twitter to beat the corrupt liberal media into the dust where they belong.
By going directly to The People he gets his message out before the media has a chance to misrepresent what he actually says.

Ha ha.



I find it interesting that you find only Republicans worthy of wealth, and they are worthy of that wealth no matter how it was obtained.

But Democrats are never worthy of wealth in your world. Apparently, for whatever reason, in your world there has never been a Democrat who has become wealthy through legitimate means.

Actually, it's only interesting because it is so predictable from you.

___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Your post is your usual load of crap dripping in assumptions not based on any fact.

Or are you speaking of Donald Trump who earned his wealth through hard work or Hillary Clinton and her husband who got their wealth through taking bribes and strong-arming foreign governments and Wall Street?





Like I said, you are completely predictable, and you just proved my point. Nevermind that Trump got his start from a rich daddy and expanded his empire through fraud and taking advantage of bankruptcy law, if he was a Democrat you would be all overy him. But no, he is a Republican so he automatically gets a pass and gets the Mule distinction of earning it through hard work. I guess fraud is hard work. But Hillary working her way up as an attorney is so disrespectful in Mule's world. Whatever you say.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 09:32 PM
quote:
quote:
It is the press who serves one role as checks and balances on the exec office.
No longer. Most gave up that duty to play cheerleader for the current administration.


They will flip back to the watchdog now that Trump has been elected. Bank on it. Their lack of consistency will further erode their credibility.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/8/2016 at 09:39 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
It is the press who serves one role as checks and balances on the exec office.
No longer. Most gave up that duty to play cheerleader for the current administration.


They will flip back to the watchdog now that Trump has been elected. Bank on it. Their lack of consistency will further erode their credibility.

___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

A watchdog approach is exactly with the press is supposed to do. They have two responsibilities:
1.) hold the government accountable
2.) report the news to the people.

The hard part for many now is that most of what is "reported" is not the facts, not the news. it is a politically driven opinion.

Oh well. Informed people can separate the facts from the b/s.


 
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