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Author: Subject: Merry Christmas Carrier employees

A Peach Supreme





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  posted on 11/29/2016 at 08:13 PM

Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant- will-keep-jobs-in-us.html?_r=0

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2016 at 08:42 PM
Details of the carrots or inducements?

Maybe Trump will expand upon this if & when he does a press conference. Looking forward to see how he responds to questions by the "corrupt & biased media". The pres-elect hasn't done a press conference since July. These are quite different than standing in front of a crowd in an arena or state fair and spouting anything off the top of his head regardless of accuracy and inciting a crowd. It actually takes knowledge of subject matter. The American people are waiting for the first couple of press conferences by Donald.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2016 at 09:51 PM
Where Obama has repeatedly failed, Donald Trump succeeds:

Carrier says it has deal with Trump to keep jobs in Indiana

By JULIE PACE - From Associated Press - November 29, 2016 9:10 PM EST

WASHINGTON (AP) — Air conditioning company Carrier said Tuesday that it had reached a deal with President-elect Donald Trump to keep nearly 1,000 jobs in Indiana. Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence planned to travel to the state Thursday to unveil the agreement alongside company officials.

Trump spent much of his campaign pledging to keep companies like Carrier from moving jobs overseas. His focus on manufacturing jobs contributed to his unexpected appeal with working-class voters in states like Michigan, which has long voted for Democrats in presidential elections.
The details of the agreement were unclear. Carrier tweeted that the company was "pleased to have reached a deal" with Trump and Pence to keep the jobs in Indianapolis.

A transition official confirmed that the president-elect and Pence, who is ending his tenure as Indiana governor, would appear with Carrier officials Thursday. The official insisted on anonymity because the official was not authorized to discuss the trip ahead of an official announcement.

Trump said last week that he was "making progress" on trying to get Carrier to stay in Indiana.
In a September debate against Democratic rival Hillary Clinton, he railed against Carrier's decision to move hundreds of air-conditioner manufacturing jobs from Indianapolis to Mexico.

"So many hundreds and hundreds of companies are doing this," Trump said. "We have to stop our jobs from being stolen from us. We have to stop our companies from leaving the United States."

During the Republican primaries, Trump said he would said he would demand that Carrier parent company United Technologies reverse a decision to move two of its Carrier heating and ventilating parts plants to Mexico, eliminating 2,100 U.S. jobs.

Carrier wasn't the only company Trump assailed. He pledged to give up Oreos after Nabisco's parent, Mondelez International, said it would replace nine production lines in Chicago with four in Mexico. He criticized Ford after the company said it planned to invest $2.5 billion in engine and transmission plants in Mexico.

The event in Indiana will be a rare public appearance for Trump, who has spent nearly his entire tenure as president-elect huddled with advisers and meeting with possible Cabinet secretaries. He plans to make other stops later this week as part of what advisers have billed as a "thank you" tour for voters who backed him in the presidential campaign.



[Edited on 11/30/2016 by Muleman1994]

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/29/2016 at 09:59 PM
LOL, my guess is the american citizens will have ended up keeping them here, after all with the Tax cuts Trump is giving the parent company....he isn't doing sh!t.....we the tax payers will be.

Beyond tax breaks, the company would have had several motivations to reach a deal with the Trump administration, said Mohan Tatikonda, an operations management professor for the Indiana University Kelley School of Business.

For one, Carrier's parent company, Connecticut-based United Technologies Corp., is a large government contractor. The company "would like to start off on the right foot" with a new presidential administration, Tatikonda said, particularly because the government plays a large role in its business.

[Edited on 11/30/2016 by LeglizHemp]

 

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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 11:29 AM
quote:
Details of the carrots or inducements?


If I was a CEO, I'd be on the phone with the transition team right now.

"Whattaya give me to stay? We weren't even planning on moving, but what ya got?"

 

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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 01:25 PM
quote:
Where Obama has repeatedly failed, Donald Trump succeeds:



And Mike Pence, since a lot of tax incentives for businesses are also determined by the state.

I'm happy for the 1000 employees (1000 other Carrier jobs are still Mexico-bound), but it will be interesting to see if this drives prices up for customers. How will this be funded?

quote:
While Carrier will forfeit some $65 million a year in savings the move was supposed to generate, that’s a small price to pay to avoid the public relations damage from moving the jobs as well as a possible threat to United Technologies’ far-larger military contracting business.

Roughly 10 percent of United Technologies’ $56 billion in revenue comes from the federal government; the Pentagon is its single largest customer. With $4 billion in profit last year, the company has the flexibility to find the savings elsewhere.


Ah, I see. So, Yuge Federal Tax incentives for the corporation, but we saved 1000 jobs. Does this set a precedent that companies can threaten to leave in order to broker a profitable federally financed deal to stay? Tax dollars at work...

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 02:13 PM
Much to the liberals dismay, Donald Trump has saved American jobs and fulfilled a campaign promise.

Not a word from Obama who failed to stop companies and jobs from fleeing The U.S.

Long before taking his oath of office Donald Trump is getting the job done.

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 02:21 PM
quote:
Much to the liberals dismay, Donald Trump has saved American jobs and fulfilled a campaign promise.

Not a word from Obama who failed to stop companies and jobs from fleeing The U.S.

Long before taking his oath of office Donald Trump is getting the job done.



You are the class clown aren't you? It is one thing to save jobs using the long arm of the government as Trump and Pence have done and another thing entirely to establish an environment where investment and industry function together to create jobs. What you are applauding here is state driven socialism and not capitalism. You seem to get the two very different economic systems confused.

 

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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 02:22 PM
The obsession with Obama continues. Very creepy.
 

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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 02:29 PM
quote:
quote:
Much to the liberals dismay, Donald Trump has saved American jobs and fulfilled a campaign promise.

Not a word from Obama who failed to stop companies and jobs from fleeing The U.S.

Long before taking his oath of office Donald Trump is getting the job done.



You are the class clown aren't you? It is one thing to save jobs using the long arm of the government as Trump and Pence have done and another thing entirely to establish an environment where investment and industry function together to create jobs. What you are applauding here is state driven socialism and not capitalism. You seem to get the two very different economic systems confused.


Federal meddling in the Free Open Capitalist Market is only OK with Mule when Republicans do it. Also, Federal handouts at tax payer expense are only OK when Billion Dollar Corporations do it. He doesn't understand the parallels.

We don't know what deal was made. Until then, unless I worked for Carrier, I wouldn't celebrate yet. Trump can't strike deals with every company that finds profit overseas.

 

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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 02:30 PM
quote:
The obsession with Obama continues. Very creepy.


You should see the wall of Hillary photos on his bunker ceiling.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 02:38 PM
quote:
quote:
Much to the liberals dismay, Donald Trump has saved American jobs and fulfilled a campaign promise.

Not a word from Obama who failed to stop companies and jobs from fleeing The U.S.

Long before taking his oath of office Donald Trump is getting the job done.



You are the class clown aren't you? It is one thing to save jobs using the long arm of the government as Trump and Pence have done and another thing entirely to establish an environment where investment and industry function together to create jobs. What you are applauding here is state driven socialism and not capitalism. You seem to get the two very different economic systems confused.

___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Ah a leading WP moron keeps making a fool of himself.
If it were socialism the government would have nationalized the business and seized it.

The establishing an environment where investment and industry function together will be done, as Donald Trump has stated, when he is actually in office and can get the 35% corporate tax rate, highest in the world, down to a level where companies and therefore jobs will stop fleeing the U.S.

Obama was told, by business leaders, what needed to be done and Obama ignored the professionals as he has throughout his failed Presidency.



 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 05:34 PM


As Trump claims to have saved Carrier jobs, details are hazy

by JOSH BOAK & BRIAN SLODYSKO & JULIE PACE, The Associated Press
11 minutes ago
WASHINGTON --
In persuading Carrier to keep hundreds of jobs in Indiana, President-elect Donald Trump has claimed victory on behalf of factory workers whose positions were bound for Mexico. But the scant details that have emerged so far raise doubts about the extent of the victory.
At Carrier's Indianapolis plant, the deal spares about 800 union workers whose jobs were going to be outsourced to Mexico, according to federal officials who were briefed by the heating and air conditioning company. This suggests that hundreds will still lose their jobs at the factory, where roughly 1,400 workers were slated to be laid off.
Also, Trump has yet to say what the workers might have to give up or what threats or incentives were used to get Carrier to change its mind.
Sen. Joe Donnelly, an Indiana Democrat, said he has lingering questions about what the announcement could mean for the workers.
"Who is going to be retained? What is the structure there will be for the retention? What is going to be put in place?" Donnelly said. "Are these the same jobs at the same wage? I would sure like to know as soon as I can."
Fuller answers could emerge Thursday, when Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence, who is ending his tenure as Indiana governor, are to appear with Carrier officials in Indiana.
On the campaign trail, Trump threatened to impose sharp tariffs on any company that shifted its factories to Mexico. And his advisers have since promoted lower corporate tax rates as a means of keeping jobs in the U.S.
Trump may have had some leverage because United Technologies, Carrier's parent company, also owns Pratt & Whitney, a big supplier of fighter jet engines that relies in part on U.S. military contracts.
In February, United Technologies said it would close its Carrier air conditioning and heating plant in Indianapolis and move its manufacturing to Mexico. The plant's workers would have been laid off over three years starting in 2017.
Whatever deal Trump struck with Carrier does not appear to have salvaged jobs at a separate branch of United Technologies in Huntington, Indiana, that makes microprocessor-based controls for the heating, air conditioning and refrigeration industries. That branch will move manufacturing operations to a new plant in Mexico, costing the city 700 jobs by 2018.
Huntington Mayor Brooks Fetters suggested that local officials lack the political clout to preserve those jobs.
"At a local level, there was not much that anybody was going to do to make global, publicly traded companies make a decision other than what they made for the benefit of their shareholders," Fetters said.
Donnelly said he worries about other factory job losses threatening his state. Bearing maker Rexnord, which has a factory near the Carrier plant in Indianapolis, plans to lay off about 350 workers. And electronics manufacturer CTS plans to eliminate more than 200 jobs at its Elkhart plant, he said.
Union leaders who represent the Carrier workers were not involved in the negotiations that the Trump team had with their employer.
Chuck Jones, president of United Steelworkers Local 1999, which represents Carrier workers, said of Tuesday's news: "I'm optimistic, but I don't know what the situation is. I guess it's a good sign. ... You would think they would keep us in the loop. But we know nothing."
Trump's deal with Carrier may be a public relations success for the incoming president. It also suggests that he has unveiled a new presidential economic approach: actively choosing individual corporate winners and losers — or at least winners.
To critics who see other Indiana factories on the verge of closing, deals like the one at Carrier are unlikely to stem the job losses caused by automation and cheap foreign competition.
The prospect that the White House might directly intervene is also a concern to some economists. The incentives needed to keep jobs from moving often come at the public's expense. They note that Trump's activism might encourage companies to threaten to move jobs overseas in hopes of receiving tax breaks or contracts with the government.
"It sets up a race to the bottom," said Diane Lim, chief economist at the nonprofit Committee for Economic Development.
Carrier's parent company indicated that moving production to Mexico would save the company $65 million annually. Because of pressures like that, states routinely give manufacturers incentives, and "economists who recoil at the thought of this are living in a dream world," said Scott Paul, president of the American Alliance for Manufacturing.
For Trump, a challenge will be trying to duplicate the Carrier feat many times over to retain and increase the nation's 12.3 million manufacturing jobs.
Since the start of 2015, the Labor Department has issued over 1,600 approvals for layoffs or plant closings as a result of shifts of production overseas or competition from imports, the American Alliance of Manufacturing noted.
But other forces, such as consumer demand and the value of the dollar, also determine whether assembly lines keep humming.
Payroll services provider ADP said Wednesday that manufacturers shed 10,000 jobs in November. U.S. manufacturers have struggled in the past year as a stronger dollar has cut into exports and domestic businesses have spent less on machinery and other equipment.
White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Wednesday that Trump would have to replicate the Carrier deal 804 times to meet President Barack Obama's record. He said that Obama created 805,000 jobs in manufacturing and that the figure is much higher if existing jobs that have been protected are included.
Trump acknowledged the extent of the problem on the campaign trail this year.
"So many hundreds and hundreds of companies are doing this," he said. "We have to stop our jobs from being stolen from us. We have to stop our companies from leaving the United States."
Carrier wasn't the only company Trump assailed during the campaign. He pledged to give up Oreos after Nabisco's parent, Mondelez International, said it would replace nine production lines in Chicago with four in Mexico. He criticized Ford after the company said it planned to invest $2.5 billion in engine and transmission plants in Mexico.

 

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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 07:38 PM
Looks like the jobs are staying. Hatred of Trump aside, isn't that something we should be happy about?
 

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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 08:11 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Much to the liberals dismay, Donald Trump has saved American jobs and fulfilled a campaign promise.

Not a word from Obama who failed to stop companies and jobs from fleeing The U.S.

Long before taking his oath of office Donald Trump is getting the job done.



You are the class clown aren't you? It is one thing to save jobs using the long arm of the government as Trump and Pence have done and another thing entirely to establish an environment where investment and industry function together to create jobs. What you are applauding here is state driven socialism and not capitalism. You seem to get the two very different economic systems confused.

___________________________________________________________________________ ____________

Ah a leading WP moron keeps making a fool of himself.
If it were socialism the government would have nationalized the business and seized it.

The establishing an environment where investment and industry function together will be done, as Donald Trump has stated, when he is actually in office and can get the 35% corporate tax rate, highest in the world, down to a level where companies and therefore jobs will stop fleeing the U.S.

Obama was told, by business leaders, what needed to be done and Obama ignored the professionals as he has throughout his failed Presidency.





China has plenty of private companies but remains communist. Northern Europeans have private industries but are socialist states.

The issue in this case is that Trump cut a deal. As a private entrepreneur he can cut deals like this and it can be a good deal. But as a President Elect he is responsible for establishing polices and opening opportunities for capital investment in the types of industries that create jobs. Tax policy aside he has not yet moved in that direction.

I hope he succeeds.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 08:40 PM
quote:
Looks like the jobs are staying. Hatred of Trump aside, isn't that something we should be happy about?


1000 out of 1400, yes, it is a good thing....on the surface. just like last 8 or 8 or 8 or 4 or 8 or 4 or 2 or 6 year stretches of presidents (change years and from prez to congress if you like for my story) , we should also know the details of any deals. and of course one side will love it and the other will hate it. then we should look at how people have felt over the years about similar deals, decide whether their choice is partisan or not......dissect it to the molecular level....and then only then.....will we know if this was a good thing

 

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Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 08:41 PM

I think this sets a great tone for the new year. Number one, the PRes -Elect is not just spending time on the golf course. Number two, he is not afraid to pick up the phone and learn about the barriers preventing companies from staying here and is willing to commit to change things. Number three, he is about results.

THis is a small but significant win for the Pres. Elect

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 08:49 PM
i wouldn't start so early with time on the golf course....i mean the man owns golf courses

 

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Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 09:32 PM
i guess my state of indiana is paying them 700k to stay? hmmmm....well least people in other states aren't buying these jobs.....they are buying other jobs? what is the message here? is this welfare?....is this a different kind of welfare and does it benefit the employee or the employer....or the taxpayer......i'm just asking......thoughtful responses are appreciated

 

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Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
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Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 10:47 PM
The only thing wrong with this deal is that it doesn't go far enough, maintaining enough of the jobs and send a stronger signal to other companies.

What cost? What is the cost not to do it?

Laid off workers go on unemployment. After employer sponsored healthcare benefits expire for laid off workers, more subsidies get paid under the Affordable Care Act for their health insurance. Community taxes collected under pay roll taxes evaporate. School districts have less money. Property values fall. Been there, done that. We've been doing that for decades. Not working out too well is it. And you wonder why the rust belt voted Trump? You wonder why blue collar union members voted Trump? Go have a fancy economist tell them again that tax incentivizes for Carrier is a bad thing. You go tell that to the stores in the towns those workers live in. You go tell that to the emergency services people that rely on approved tax levies. Laid off workers don't vote for levies.

You see the domino effect? We can't afford to not do it.

I don't care if they want use the carrot or the stick. We must keep jobs here and we must get more jobs here from both foreign and US companies a like. Doesn't matter to us (US) if it is a corporate tax abatement program to keep people employed here, or tax and tariff penalty program for companies either moving operations outside our border or foreign companies bringing in foreign make goods.

Carrier have alot of government contracts or other UTI companies do alot of business with the government. Good. You tell them, "if they enjoy doing business with the federal government they should think twice about where they invest their next plant (here or foreign country)". You tell them "you better think twice before shuttering your US plant for one in Mexico". Is that a threat? Who the **** cares. This is serious **** here, you want to keep seeing this country going down the **** ter? Then you keep opposing deals like this. Maybe not in your back yard, ok. Who cares about the people in that far off community? This is one country and what happens in every town, city and state effects this country and it effects you whether you know it or not.

To think that this in any way is a bad things is almost beyond my comprehension. Will more companies test the government in order to get deals? If we (US) get what we want / need out of it who cares? We must not only protect existing jobs and build into these deals job expansion requirement or triggers - this is 100% the right direction and it doesn't matter if it is a Democrat or a Republican doing it.

Now, not only will Carrier stand to make less profit due to keeping the plant here with US labor, but they are at a competitive disadvantage to foreign made finished goods.

Look, the components that go into all these assemblies are made and have parts coming from all over the world, for now, we can't change that. First and foremost we need to keep as many of these manufacturing or assembly jobs that we have. Many of the parts that the Indiana plant works with are going to be foreign made, and that is what it is. We need to focus first on what we have and if that is as good as it gets for right now than so be it.

Now, Carrier Corp and it's dealers have to bid residential and commercial goods and services against some of their competitors that do not use any US manufacturing or assembly labor. That puts Carrier at a disadvantage.

So the next step must be to incentivize more foreign made assemblies to be done here. This will work to level the playing field and put less pressure on companies like Carrier to seek foreign labor if less of the competitors they are competing against are benefiting from foreign labor.

Forget what you were taught in the economics class and forget these lock-step economists that look at the world as a global pool of labor, where capital seeks it's biggest return regardless of national boundries. That my friends, is a race to the bottom, not what has happened here with Carrier.

We are Americans. We need to promote, protect and grow jobs in this country. The rest of the world will have to figure out their own situation because we aren't going to let them have our jobs any more.

Again, the only thing wrong here is that it didn't go far enough.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 11:15 PM
I started following politics and current affairs when I was 14. I'm now 46. That entire time I've heard the gospel of the sacred sanctity of the free market and government just needs to get of the way and stay out of the way.

Apparently all that was BS, now it's by any means necessary.

That was fast.

 

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  posted on 11/30/2016 at 11:59 PM
quote:
I started following politics and current affairs when I was 14. I'm now 46. That entire time I've heard the gospel of the sacred sanctity of the free market and government just needs to get of the way and stay out of the way.

Apparently all that was BS, now it's by any means necessary.

That was fast.




Pretty sure you are speaking to the broader philosophy from the right or economists in general. I've been very consistent in my views, any posts you find on the topic in the last 12 years here will prove that. But I'm sure most of the long time members remember how strong I speak on the issue.

What is good in the classroom and in theory hasn't worked well for us. I think it has worked well for the rest of the world at our expense. Economic theory knows no boarders. I want economic and trade policy that is in our favor, one that maximizes the benefits of our market for our workers, communities, state and federal governments. I don't care whether that is how Republicans are supposed to feel because I am not a Republican. The issue may be tougher to square for those belonging to the Republican side of things.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/1/2016 at 02:24 AM
quote:
I started following politics and current affairs when I was 14. I'm now 46. That entire time I've heard the gospel of the sacred sanctity of the free market and government just needs to get of the way and stay out of the way.



In many cases, the government should stay out of the way. Namely (particularly) with needless regulation, affirmative action, red tape, confiscatory taxation, fees, licensing, etc.......Long list. As a business operator, I deal with these issues daily, and can guarantee that much of my time is wasted in non-productive tasks that have NOTHING to do with the profitability or well being of my business, nor my employees.

I fail to see how an effort to keep some jobs here is in quite the same realm as the above. Folks have been complaining about "outsourcing" for years, and as soon as someone starts taking action that's not right, either?





 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/1/2016 at 07:30 AM
quote:
quote:
Details of the carrots or inducements?


If I was a CEO, I'd be on the phone with the transition team right now.

"Whattaya give me to stay? We weren't even planning on moving, but what ya got?"


Yes the pundits are all over this, somehow I think it would backfire on the company attempting the shakedown, plus until proven otherwise, I think our President Elect is a smarter negotiator than this.

Nebish - thank you for weighing in, thoughtful response !

It is "mind bottling" ( <-- Will Ferrell nod ) to me how some turn this event into a negative.

Some would say this is exactly one of the reasons Trump got elected, his ability to shake things up, unconventional methods, results.

I for one cannot wait to see what else he does.

 

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  posted on 12/1/2016 at 07:56 AM
quote:


Now, not only will Carrier stand to make less profit due to keeping the plant here with US labor, but they are at a competitive disadvantage to foreign made finished goods.

Now, Carrier Corp and it's dealers have to bid residential and commercial goods and services against some of their competitors that do not use any US manufacturing or assembly labor. That puts Carrier at a disadvantage.




hmmmm, if that's the case, does not make sense why carrier decided to stay. Maybe I am missing something, but I think more might be revealed today.

http://www.wthr.com/article/trump-pence-coming-to-indianapolis-thursday-to- discuss-carrier-deal

 

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