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Author: Subject: Taping of shows

Peach Bud





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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 03:12 AM
Is this allowed and or encouraged? In past years I have seen many tapers at the Beacon,and was wondering about the Band's take on the subject. Are the shows gonna be sold on this site,like what The Dead did last year? If so I would definatly buy a copy...
 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 04:21 AM
Allowed and encouraged.

People have been taping ABB shows since 1969. They're not sold, generally. There were a couple of shows recorded professionally and sold over the summer (you'll see them referred to as "Instant Live" discs), and once or twice a year, an older show is released from the band's archives. But usually they're free from other traders. Check the Trades and Live show requests sections of the Forum.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 12:33 PM
Hey Marley,

I think I might take small issue with you comment that taping is encouraged. Nowhere have I ever seen the band issue a clear, definitive statement encouraging taping. They seem to just imply that it is o.k. and do not stop people from taping and trading the shows. The band obviously takes some umbridge over electronic distribution of the live material (based upon the request to remove their live shows from numerous live servers hosting ABB shows). To me, they choose to just ignore trading and taping and have left it at that.

The MULE has a specific taper section. To me this is a definitive statement: WE SAY TAPING IS O.K..

 

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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 12:39 PM
I would that the fact that we have a trading section to
the forums, and the setlist section, that this constitutes
support and encouragement of trading live shows.

I agree with Marley.

They only disallow and disapprove of downloading and
filesharing. That doesn't translate into discouraging
trading.

Peace
John

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 02:14 PM
quote:
... the fact that we have a trading section to
the forums, and the setlist section, that this constitutes
support and encouragement of trading live shows.

They only disallow and disapprove of downloading and
filesharing. That doesn't translate into discouraging
trading.


I never implied that the band discouraged trading. All I said was that they were ambivalent about the issue. By permitting a trading section and a setlist archive; to me just acknowledges a great & proud history of live performances that the band has done. They do allow mail trades (absolutely). Please point out anywhere on any site, where there is a clear, decisive permission to openly trade & tape the band's performances. No-where that I have ever seen.

The band & management know clearly that the band's legacy has sustained due to the continued interest of the true loyal fans. Certainly not because of support from VH1. I love that I can trade for the shows, however I believe that the band and/or management like it that this is a grey, undefined policy that they have (and want to continue it like it is).

 

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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 02:36 PM
Taping & trading is one thing. They certainly allow and I would agree encourage. The downloading & electonic transfer is completely different. I belive the concerns being 1) Loss of quality though electronic trnasfer and 2) Mass distribution - A taper tapes, sends it to some number of people who trade among fans and it gets distributed to people who want it enough to put something in to it. Making the shows available for download is to easy and allows the whole wolrd to make copies with little effort. To me it makes it lot less special if you just click & obtain as opposed to going through the trade or B&P process.

They allow us to enjoy the shows without concerning themselves with making it "Too Convenient" and I actually like it that way.



[Edited on 3/14/2004 by KCJimmy]

 

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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 06:40 PM
quote:
Taping & trading is one thing. They certainly allow and I would agree encourage. The downloading & electonic transfer is completely different. I belive the concerns being 1) Loss of quality though electronic transfer


I would have to respectfully disagree with that notion. The digital trading pool becomes much more degraded by folks ripping audio format and re-copying over and over (and ALL the inherent errors that can be introduced that way) than it ever would by digital transfer in any of the lossless formats like SHN, Flac, or APE, the key word there being "lossless". They also contain a File Integrity check to insure their accuracy as a clone.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 06:52 PM
Denza's hit it on the head - the electronic means of distribution (and the way the various compressed formats get distributed) means that the best possible seeds get circulated in 100% quality from the original. Perfect audio ripping IS possible (check out some of the threads in the Trades forum for how it's done - some very useful stuff!) but, sadly, too few traders actually follow these rules; the outcome is that, with snailmail trading, we can end up with some very degraded sources indeed (remember cassette???)

Personally, I have never understood the band's attitude to file-sharing (I think they are blurring - and confusing - the lines between trading and bootlegging on this issue), but what the hell - at least they have a commitment to allowing trading, so that gets a qualified thumbs-up from me!

 
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Universal Peach



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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 07:08 PM
Will there be any Instant Live recordings at the Beacon, just wondering?
 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 07:27 PM
I have a nice Dickey show with a 25 minute interview at the end of it where he specifically mentions tapers. Paraphrased: "I've got a few new songs I'd like to be playing, but I'm going to wait until we record them first. I want the songs to be new when the album comes out. We let tapers come in and tape our shows, see, and if we play something one time it gets traded all over the place and by the time we make the record it's old news."

He certainly didn't have any resentment in his voice when he said it. For what that's worth. I know he doesn't speak for the Brothers, but it stands to reason he'd have a similar attitude towards taping.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/14/2004 at 07:34 PM
Was reading somewhere where Kirk West is quoted as saying if anyone is hassiling you about getting taping equipment in to say that he gave you permisson, and to get him now.(or something to that effect).

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 03:44 AM
quote:
Nowhere have I ever seen the band issue a clear, definitive statement encouraging taping. They seem to just imply that it is o.k. and do not stop people from taping and trading the shows.

After 30 years of allowing it, I don't think a statement like that is necessary. It's always been allowed. Just about every concert venue has signs posted that forbid recording the performance, but when the ABB play, it's never enforced. I don't think that would happen unless the band was actively permitting it and overriding that policy.

quote:
Will there be any Instant Live recordings at the Beacon, just wondering?

The Instant Lives were all done at Clear Channel-owned venues, which I think the Beacon is not. If I'm wrong, nothing has been announced so far, and we were told about the Instant Live shows in advance.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 03:53 AM
...Meaning I'd be surprised if they didn't put the word out about more recordings until so few days before the run starts.

Only four more days!!

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 10:46 AM
I talked to someone on the phone the other day who tapes at the Beacon, and he made it sound like there WAS a specific taper section at the Beacon. He said that it was fairly small and not necessarily the best taping situation, but it was an official section.

Anybody else know about this?

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 10:56 AM
It is all about opinion and people speaking for the band. The ABB obviously allows people to tape and spread the music without doubt. To say that they encourage it would be putting words in their mouths. Permit and encourage are two totally different things. I would say that they encourage us to buy their products and they allow us to trade.

Either way it works for me.

As for "electronic" downloads, the ABB has stated that they are not in favor of it so I choose not to but that is each person's choice. It is a matter of respect in my opinion. I won't download ABB or ABB related bands that allow trading and taping but everyone else is fair game for me.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 11:01 AM
quote:
To say that they encourage it would be putting words in their mouths.
\

NO

I am basing it on the actions taken. Not anything anyone said.

Have you ever heard the expression "Actions speak louder than words" ???

Peace
John

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 11:10 AM
What would be really "ENCOURAGING" would be a Soundboard patch like the old days.

The AUD mic tapers do an excellent job these days (love those Neumann's) but I really like some of the SBD's from the 90's.

 

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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 11:17 AM
quote:
quote:
To say that they encourage it would be putting words in their mouths.
\

NO

I am basing it on the actions taken. Not anything anyone said.

Have you ever heard the expression "Actions speak louder than words" ???

Peace
John


Hi John
I actually wasn't refering to your comments. Just that often people seem to read between the lines and create the bands opinion. To me if they wanted to encourage trading they would supply the original source via a soundboard recording. This would also help with the belief that they don't like downloading because of the quality. I don't expect the ABB to do this but to me that would be encouraging us to trade the best quality shows.

We can't read minds was my point. Maybe they hate trading and can't stop it because of the public perception. Maybe some members love it and some hate it. Maybe they don't care at all. Either way I appreciate what they have given us.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 11:20 AM
Yes it is encouraged!!! Thank the band...

I for one prefer a "high quality" audience recording any day over a soundboard...
Soundboards have a tendancy to sound sterile with very little depth! Yes there is more bottom end and the vocals will sound clearer but some of these recent audience recording have been outstanding and you get a good idea of what the actual mix at the show sounds like...great job tapers!

In my old DeadHead days when I used to collect a lot old analog Dead stuff, I would try and get hold of a soundboard AND an audience tape of some of the better shows- just to have some variety...depending on the mood I was in...

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 04:27 PM
quote:
We can't read minds was my point. Maybe they hate trading and can't stop it because of the public perception. Maybe some members love it and some hate it.

I suppose anything is possible, but given the fact that all of the ABB splinter bands allow taping at their shows - where they would have more control due to the lack of a legacy - I don't think that's very likely.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 04:33 PM
Moogis!

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 04:35 PM
Don't tell me you know what it is, Sang...

 

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  posted on 3/15/2004 at 11:27 PM
quote:
quote:
We can't read minds was my point. Maybe they hate trading and can't stop it because of the public perception. Maybe some members love it and some hate it.

I suppose anything is possible, but given the fact that all of the ABB splinter bands allow taping at their shows - where they would have more control due to the lack of a legacy - I don't think that's very likely.


It is used to promote the bands also. If one of the "jam" bands disallowed taping, it would disappoint their fanbase. Not a wise move for any artist. Generously promoting ones product is not a new concept. Samples have been given out as long as commerce has existed. It is actually a stoke of genius for bands to do this because their cost is zero. The product spreads and people come looking for more.

 

Peach Bud



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  posted on 3/20/2004 at 02:56 AM
I have been to a few Beacon shows over the last 5 years (better late than never) and always wanted to get a copy of a show I was at-but has'nt happened yet.The DVD release was shot only a day or two after our last show (3-22-03) We will be at the 3-27 show,and would like to set up a trade with anyone who might be recording that night.I have a lot of GD and related stuff...
 
 


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