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Author: Subject: The "Ferguson Effect"

Zen Peach





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  posted on 6/5/2015 at 10:25 AM
Rushing to judgment in racial cases and racial politics in general has a high cost...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425






[Edited on 6/5/2015 by alloak41]

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2015 at 11:54 AM
It's ironic that the areas that hold the strongest animosity toward the police are the precise areas that need police the worst. While most of the folks living in these neighborhoods are law abiding people, the bad apples and race-baiting officials have made it even more dangerous for everyone.

The police must have the confidence to do what's necessary to keep the neighborhood safe. They have to know the administration has their back. Sadly, when they are made into the scapegoat there will be a natural hesitation. The average cop on the beat has become a mere step away from becoming a household name, and ruined forever.

The misguided quest to retain a voting block at any cost has gone terribly wrong.


 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/5/2015 at 07:06 PM
The problems in Ferguson and Baltimore are way more complicated than what's on the surface. IMO, this is a byproduct of class warfare, which is a byproduct of capitalism. In all of these poor black neighborhoods all over the country, they accept the cards they have been dealt, but aren't going to tolerate racial violent abuse on top of it, to the point where they are being murdered just for running away. Yes, it's stupid to run from the police, but don't get it twisted, the Founding Fathers would be disgusted at stories like this - they tried to create a society where that type of abuse wouldn't happen. It doesn't matter if he robbed a convenient store, or wanted to avoid child support....Americans don't get killed because they run away, and that's what makes us better than other countries that abuse their citizens.

If anyone is to blame for the mess in these communities, it's the politicians.


 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2015 at 04:19 AM
50-60 years of political thinking that if you throw money at something, it will get better has resulted in higher poverty levels, higher illegitimacy, and higher percentages of broken and single-parent homes. That, combined with disastrous economic planning over a similar period that has squandered away our industrial base and the opportunity for decent jobs has resulted in a class of dependents who's sense of self worth, and their value in the community, has become distorted. Politicians will not touch the real issues that must be addressed to fix this, because to do so threatens their own power.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 10:46 AM
Another manifestation of the Ferguson Effect is an apparent lack of respect for police officers. We saw this again in McKinney. If a cop tells you to get on the ground and keep your mouth shut, then get on the ground and keep your mouth shut.

Don't run, charge at him, refuse to hold still, scream obscenities at him, attempt to grab his firearm, and what not. If you are told to leave the area five times and continue to hang around, don't complain if you get manhandled shortly after that. How hard is this?

Compliance with a simple request greatly decreases your chance of law enforcement related health problems.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 10:48 AM
Worth repeating, Chris Rock on how not to get your a*s kicked by the police:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 11:10 AM
quote:
Another manifestation of the Ferguson Effect is an apparent lack of respect for police officers. We saw this again in McKinney. If a cop tells you to get on the ground and keep your mouth shut, then get on the ground and keep your mouth shut.



So cops as trained professionals are not responsible for their actions. You actually think that cop was in the right by slamming that bikini clad teenager to the ground???

Jesus God almighty Alloak - you are a complete and utter Fascist.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 11:14 AM
quote:
Another manifestation of the Ferguson Effect is an apparent lack of respect for police officers. We saw this again in McKinney. If a cop tells you to get on the ground and keep your mouth shut, then get on the ground and keep your mouth shut.

How is this a "Ferguson Effect"? I agree with you that there is a lack of respect for police officers in many places, but the reasons for it are complex and it pre-dates the events in Ferguson by a long shot. Ferguson was an outcome of this, a symptom if you will, not a cause.



[Edited on 6/9/2015 by gondicar]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 11:26 AM
quote:
quote:
Another manifestation of the Ferguson Effect is an apparent lack of respect for police officers. We saw this again in McKinney. If a cop tells you to get on the ground and keep your mouth shut, then get on the ground and keep your mouth shut.



So cops as trained professionals are not responsible for their actions. You actually think that cop was in the right by slamming that bikini clad teenager to the ground???

Jesus God almighty Alloak - you are a complete and utter Fascist.


Why? Because I have the good sense not to escalate an already volatile situation?

And why did it come to that? Eyewitnesses testified that she'd already been told to leave the area numerous times and refused. How stupid is that? Again, your best bet is to just do what they ask you to do.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 12:55 PM
Your best bet is to hire well trained, professional police officers. In situations like that someone has to be the adult. Since the kid, was, well... a kid, I'd hope the adult would be the professional law enforcement specialist.

That cop acted like a thug.

quote:
Why? Because I have the good sense not to escalate an already volatile situation?


No. A Fascist believes in and supports an unfettered police state. If you think those cops actions are correct and professional I can only assume you advocate for an unfettered, unaccountable police state.

In my mind - That ain't America.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 01:17 PM
I agree that when a cop tells you to do something, you do it.
But - on a personal level, my wife was dragged out her car by a cop at a traffic stop for no reason at all. She fought the ticket and the judge reprimanded the cop
Another time, she was also pulled over one time by a statie who simply wanted her name and number

on a national level, we've all seen the vids of Staten Island and South Carolina. Those people shouldn't be dead (among others)

there are clearly some cops out there who think they are above the law and do whatever the hell they want.

I'm grateful to the majority of cops out there, the good cops, who do their job, put their life on the line, and protect me. I realize it's a tough job and will more often then not give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm angry at those who overstep their authority and use more violent means than are necessary.
That MUST be stopped, and it shouldn't break the criminal justice sytem to ask the cops to act as professionals with respect.

 

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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 01:21 PM
I'm not sure what to make of the McKinney incident. in general, if you are doing something you shouldn't be doing and the cops show up, you get the hell out of there. if you have permission to be there just sit down and wait it out.

it does sound like, to me so far, that some of the kids caused a scene. it also sounds like some of the adults made fools of themselves too.

the young lady had a chance to leave and wouldn't just sit down to wait to tell her story. she just kept coming back for more while barney fife was trying to get a handle on things.

little barney fife was completely out of control, he really lost his cool.

the boy who got arrested and a bloody lip, although I don't think he was attacking the officer, seemed to slip as he ran up to the officer. I can believe the cop thought he was being attacked because all he could see was this kid jumping around behind him.

I have had many encounters with the police and from experience I can tell you, if you don't want trouble, do what they say. you can always work it out later. telling the police what they can and can't do will not help your situation at all.

a lot of bad decisions were made by a lot of people.....again.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 02:40 PM
quote:
a lot of bad decisions were made by a lot of people.....again.

True. The real question is "why?". Again and again we see this happening.

I believe the root cause is a lack of trust between the police force and blacks in poor urban neighborhoods. The police have been conditioned to assume blacks in these neighborhoods are engaged in criminal activity. Blacks in these neighborhoods have been conditioned to believe that the police are the enemy. Both parties are acting out based on their beliefs. Until something happens to change that dynamic the problem will continue.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 02:41 PM
quote:
Why? Because I have the good sense not to escalate an already volatile situation?


No. A Fascist believes in and supports an unfettered police state. If you think those cops actions are correct and professional I can only assume you advocate for an unfettered, unaccountable police state.

In my mind - That ain't America.


How do you make that connection? I don't support an unfettered police state so don't be ridiculous, and just as ridiculous is your claim that they aren't accountable. How's that exactly?

Nor do I support or have any sympathy for somebody stupid and disrespectful enough to disobey the police. Failure to do so raises the stakes significantly and chances are you come out on the short end.

You can keep putting it off on the cops, but ALL of these recent cases have one thread in common. In every one of them there was some level of resistance to the police. Delete that part of the equation and we're not even talking about this.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 02:51 PM
I think the lack of trust angle has a ton of validity, although this incident in McKinney wasn't in a poor black neighborhood. I don't yet know where all of the kids came from, but I know several of the ones causing the ruckus did not live in that neighborhood. I really don't know how we get the police and the citizens back on the same side, but it is apparent a significant segment of our society do not trust the police and vice versa, and not without reason on either side.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 03:24 PM
quote:
How do you make that connection? I don't support an unfettered police state so don't be ridiculous, and just as ridiculous is your claim that they aren't accountable. How's that exactly?

Nor do I support or have any sympathy for somebody stupid and disrespectful enough to disobey the police. Failure to do so raises the stakes significantly and chances are you come out on the short end.

You can keep putting it off on the cops, but ALL of these recent cases have one thread in common. In every one of them there was some level of resistance to the police. Delete that part of the equation and we're not even talking about this.



You absolutely support the cop in this instance. You absolutely do not hold the cop accountable.

The cop is the professional. It is incumbent on the cop not to slam a bikini clad teen age girl to the ground. WTF? Do you honestly believe her behavior warranted his reaction? Was she a danger to the police officer? Did he think she had a concealed weapon?

quote:
In every one of them there was some level of resistance to the police. Delete that part of the equation and we're not even talking about this.


Why don't we just delete all crime? Then we won't need police at all.

Do you realize it is exactly "levels of resistance" that cops are paid to deal with?

Sheesh.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 03:58 PM
Generally speaking....about nobody here personally:

since the perps are black in all of these examples, some will never give them the benefit of the doubt. But if it were the other way around, and black cops start man-handling white suburban teen girls because they didn't leave an area, well these same people saying "just do what they say - if you disobey, it's your fault" would be singing a much different tune. The father of a white teen would be suing the cops in 2 seconds.

Generally speaking, this boils down to race, just like Geller. If it's anti-jew, it's condemned by all. If it's anti Muslim, no problem. Black cop v white teen girl = lawsuit. White cop v black teen girl = "your fault for not obeying."

[Edited on 6/9/2015 by BoytonBrother]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 04:05 PM
I continue to amazed at just how profoundly our society is being affected by the fact that everyone has a camera.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 04:08 PM
quote:
Rushing to judgment in racial cases and racial politics in general has a high cost...



Ignoring the racial component has a higher cost.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 04:09 PM
quote:
I continue to amazed at just how profoundly our society is being affected by the fact that everyone has a camera.

Are you saying that is good or bad?

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 04:11 PM
Are you sure the girl wasn't doing what she was told alloak?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/09/1391717/-Jon-Stewart-s-take-on-pol ice-assault-of-teenage-girl-in-McKinney-TX?detail=email


quote:
Jon Stewart and Jessica Williams use sarcasm to show the insidiousness of the assault by the McKinney police on an innocent teenage girl at a pool party. Stewart starts the skit by playing a CNN report stating that the incident began because of kids without pool passes using the pool. It then showed a subsequent clip that indicated the police officer that brutalized the young teenager and manhandled other minority kids was placed on administrative leave.

Stewart then showed the most graphic portion of the video, the segment where the police officer assaulted the young teenager and pointed his gun at two teenage boys. He showed that the officer was being redundant as he was asking the teenager to do what she was already doing—while on the ground he commanded her to get her ass on the ground.

Stewart then showed how biased the reporting is as the narrative implied that all the black kids were visitors without pool passes. He showed a clip where a teenager with her father explained that she lives in the neighborhood, has a pass, and was at the pool party. Moreover she said many kids had pool passes.

Jon Stewart then moved on to his "Senior Texas Aquatics Correspondent" Jessica Williams. Jessica was dressed in a bathing suit complete with body armor. She found it necessary to provide pool etiquette that was specific to black people and by extension those with a darker hue. "This week's incident has taught black people here something valuable," Jessica Williams said. "When you go to a pool party even in your own neighborhood that you live in, you have got to know pool etiquette. Which is no running, no splashing, no talking back. And if at all possible, get your ass even further into the ground than it is."

Williams used Stewart alluding to playing with a water gun to articulate a distinction and important reality. She said paraphrasing that open carry is for white people as black people with guns put an irrational fear into many. She ended on a positive note. The police incident was progress. After all, the police pulled out his gun on black kids and none of them got killed.

Head below the fold for the clip.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 04:57 PM
quote:
Generally speaking, this boils down to race, just like Geller. If it's anti-jew, it's condemned by all. If it's anti Muslim, no problem. Black cop v white teen girl = lawsuit. White cop v black teen girl = "your fault for not obeying."

[Edited on 6/9/2015 by BoytonBrother]


But it IS their fault! The police are authorized and trained to use force against non-cooperative individuals. Hit the deck and keep your mouth shut and you won't have a problem. Why is this being debated? I don't care if the kid is white, black, or purple, don't be an idiot. Better yet, if you've already been asked to clear out you should already be somewhere else.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 05:33 PM
quote:
quote:
Generally speaking, this boils down to race, just like Geller. If it's anti-jew, it's condemned by all. If it's anti Muslim, no problem. Black cop v white teen girl = lawsuit. White cop v black teen girl = "your fault for not obeying."

[Edited on 6/9/2015 by BoytonBrother]


But it IS their fault! The police are authorized and trained to use force against non-cooperative individuals. Hit the deck and keep your mouth shut and you won't have a problem. Why is this being debated? I don't care if the kid is white, black, or purple, don't be an idiot. Better yet, if you've already been asked to clear out you should already be somewhere else.


Many of those kids, both black and white, had passes to the pool and lived in the neighborhood. Since they were doing nothing wrong, the police had no business telling them to leave. You really seem to support a police state.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 05:44 PM
quote:
But it IS their fault! The police are authorized and trained to use force against non-cooperative individuals. Hit the deck and keep your mouth shut and you won't have a problem. Why is this being debated? I don't care if the kid is white, black, or purple, don't be an idiot. Better yet, if you've already been asked to clear out you should already be somewhere else.


SHE WAS OBEYING!!!

Have you seen the video? He is yelling, "Get on down on your A$$!" And she is already sitting on the ground. Then he lifts her up and slams her down.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2015 at 05:50 PM
quote:
quote:
But it IS their fault! The police are authorized and trained to use force against non-cooperative individuals. Hit the deck and keep your mouth shut and you won't have a problem. Why is this being debated? I don't care if the kid is white, black, or purple, don't be an idiot. Better yet, if you've already been asked to clear out you should already be somewhere else.


SHE WAS OBEYING!!!

Have you seen the video? He is yelling, "Get on down on your A$$!" And she is already sitting on the ground. Then he lifts her up and slams her down.


And now it has been reported that the cop resigned from his job.

 
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